July 3, 2024 • 48 mins
Dylan Cleaver joins Paul Ford for another episode of NZ's #1 cricket pod the BYC!
In this episode, the fellas go over the T20 World Cup Final between India & South Africa and how bloody good it was (1:38)! Then get into the White Ferns' schedule and the big losses to England (26:00) before finally getting into the mountain of correspondence from the BYC listeners (33:08)!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Dinna Koto and marste Alter and welcome to the BYC Podcast,
coming to you from the Export Beer Garden studio in
the midst of a week dominated by Indian winds, Indians,
Indian flags and Indian helpable relief. This week we reflect
on the T twenty World Cup Dani Mom and what
it all really means. We gloss over to annihilations of
(00:29):
the white Ferns. We dig into some correspondence from our
legendary listeners and wash it all down with some cricket
violence juice from Pakistani I'm Paul Ford, godfather of the
Beige Brigade. I'm joined by Master of the New Zealand
Cricket Scoop, Dylan Cleaver, our pleasy DNDE of the Substack
sports newsletter Unmissible writing in there the bounce absolute belter
(00:50):
of the newsletter. Highly recommend and I pay for it. DC.
Did you bust out your green, orange and white face
paint and body paint this week?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Actually, it was a really niggli time to watch it,
and I've got a confession. I did watch the match
in full, but unfortunately I already knew the result before
I watched the end of it, but I still found
myself weirdly excited because I didn't actually I didn't realize
the permutations that got us to that Indian victory. And
(01:23):
really how I think we'll address this a little bit later,
but how South Africa were knocking on the door of
history and it was unlocked, yet they couldn't find a
way through.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes, for the three people in the whole cricket and
universe that don't know what happened. Of course, India a
one hundred and seventy six for seven off their twenty others,
the rat Rat Holy finding some form seventy six off
fifty nine balls in the miracle, man akshar Ptel with
forty seven off thirty one, and Nortie and Kishev Maharaj
the pick of the bowlers. And then the South African
(01:58):
chase which looks so bad, then so good and then
ultimately failed, one sixty nine for eight off their twenty overs.
Massive innings from Heinrich class and the Basher Quintin de
Kock was superb. David Millard did some good things, and
it was Hardik Pandia with the most wickets, but it
was Jasper, yes, but Boomra that man, that miracle man again,
(02:19):
who was a real factor in that final. Dylan. I
thought it was an excellent final, actually played on one
of the best pitchers in the tournament, and definitely between
the two best teams. Of course, they both went into
the match unbeaten, having won eight matches in a row.
There were some foi balls and some bullshit in the format.
You know, there was some shenanigans I think around how
(02:39):
it all came together, but we can't really argue with
what the final that was produced.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I thought it was excellent.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You had two teams that are clearly committed to the
T twenty, and you can see that by their domestic competitions,
which are throwing a lot of money, a lot of resource,
a lot of time at two best teams of the
tournament are traditional cricket venue in a town or a
city that breathes cricket and has just such great lineage
(03:06):
of world class players, possibly.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
The greatest of them all.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And Gary Sobers and so everything about it felt right.
It was.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It was just a.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Really good game of cricket. Verat Poly in his last
T twenty, I know it goes out a winner goes
out with.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Some class I didn't actually realize.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Did you realize what a drought it had been for
India at ICC tournaments? I just kind of assume that
they win these kind of things all the time, but
it was it actually been got to a point where
there was some real anxiety on the subcontinent.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, well, I expected to win. I think it's probably
I mean, there's just so much overwhelming coverage about them,
particularly when these tournaments roll around, right, But I think
it's a thirteen year drought, isn't it. They've lost the
most recently the fifty over final at home, where literally
the entire Indian state expected them to win, and of
course multiple World Test Championship finals. They're always I mean,
(04:07):
they were a sensational team, but as you say that,
the pressure continued to build and certainly over the last
thirteen years they had not managed to deliver.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yes, the twenty eleven World Cup I think was the
last one, and yeah, there was certainly a lot of
fretting going along. As you mentioned that South Africa started poorly,
but let's be honest here they got themselves into a
precision position one hundred and fifty one four after sixteen overs.
(04:38):
That is a Doddle twenty six of twenty four with
two set players, not just two set players, but Klassen
and Miller, who were t twenty.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Gods with the bat. How did they lose from there?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah? I don't know. I mean, obviously it would be
very easy to just say they choked, but you did.
When you're watching the game, you did always feel because
it was real that the joker in the pack was
still those two overs that Boomra had up his sleeve,
and you knew that if he could come out and
wreck and havoc that South Africa and Tail even sort
(05:14):
of that lower order good players. But it did feel
like some of those guys are batting maybe a little
bit higher than you'd ideally want them to do really
kind of so Evrica very reliant on their their top
five really, and after that, you know, with Maharaj and
Yansen coming in, it did feel like they were you
didn't want to see them just quite that early, to
(05:35):
be honest. And so yeah, look, I'm reluctant to call
it a choke, you know, I think it was a
it was just a boomrai actually, And you know, as
you say, they were in trouble early and they were
actually in trouble sort of reasonably late as well. It
was really that not from class in that twenty seven
ball fifty two, but yes you did think as well
(05:56):
twenty six off twenty four they should be okay, a
very well timed injury break. I'm not reading anything into it.
Was literally just a momentum breaker from Richard punt and
then when they came back Class and of course just
gave us wicked away. Just you can't criticize in those
blazing at everything, very unlikely that he was going to
come out and just knock it around ones and twos,
(06:18):
which is kind of what the situation. That's all the
situation needed.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Frustratingly, Yeah, well that's exactly right. I mean, boomra bowl.
That's seventeenth over and I'm sitting there watching it, admittedly
already knowing the result, saying just get your six singles.
You can do all the damage at the other end. Instead,
as you mentioned, Class gave his wicked away. You're dead right,
Marco Jensen. Yensen, batting at least one position too high
(06:46):
at number seven, comes out and tries to block, tries
to play a traditional cricket for defense, and gets his
Poles knocked it and from that moment on you could
feel the tremors in the South Africa and dug out
and I just had well.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I didn't have the feeling. I knew it.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I knew they were going to fall short, but you
could almost sense that hope fading away. Each person that
came to the wicket was a little less confident than
the last one.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And yeah, in the end, in the end, the best
team one.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And in some ways it was hard to gauge that
earlier in this tournament because some of the conditions they
played on were it was such a lottery because the
format possibly needs to be ironed out ahead of the
next one. But in the end, I think, you know,
the best team won and we was waving goodbye to
a few t twenty legends after this World Cup, like
(07:40):
came Williamson, Ravi Jadasa who was just a non factor
brit India in this tournament, row At Sharma and Verat
Kohley who had a dreadful tournament until went. It really
really made a motion.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That's right, what I think seventy five He had seventy
five runs in the tournament. That's across eight games. I
can't I be bad at eight times, but let's just
say roughly, and then scored seventy six in the final,
and yeah, he was superban and went through the gears.
I did love. Of course. There was lots of talking
we've touched on this about the joy and the palpable
(08:16):
relief and also the redemption arc of India. And I
saw a couple of reporters sort of pretty obvious to
acknowledge a redemption song by Bob Marley, of course, and
Bob Marley Country over there. But you know, I'm not
quite sure that we can. It's probably drawing quite a
long bow to say that this Cricket World Cup was
the story about a team that had been abducted into
(08:38):
slavery fighting for their physical and mental freedom. I just
feel like that might be a little bit kind of
gilding the lily.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, look, they didn't play a Jamaica reve which is
actually Bob Marley's hometown.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Totally totally good luck. If you were traveling from anywhere
trying to get to that game apparently was absolutely apocalyptic.
If you were a journalist who was not part of
the TV commentary crew, if you were a person who
was not a player, or an umpire apparently, just the
absolutely ridiculous situation where you traveled for ten hours in
what is a direct one hour flight from a couple
of the semi final venues. I know the English media
(09:11):
were absolutely raging, not that they were there, so they
didn't need to worry too much. Yeah, you mentioned DC
those delivery, the delivery to to Marko Jensen, and there
was another sensational delivery to Resa Hendrix, who has had
a pretty difficult tournament, felt like a bit of a
walking wicket, and boom used up one of his best
(09:32):
deliveries on caustling him. I saw Kracken vocal Boomra and
I really related to this. When I was watching those
last the sort of last chapter of that game. They
said Boomra is like phone. He is like the phone
a friend and who wants to be a millionaire. He's
like your lifeline. You know he's going to do something
and it's just a matter of when you're going to
play that card. I mean, that's a pretty extraordinary position
(09:54):
for a for a player to be in.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean he is that good, isn't he. I
actually might assigned one of those previous wickets to him. Incorrectly.
Pandia was also pretty good at the end as well,
and he had been the kind of fragile link in
that Indian bowling line up up till then as well.
He was kind of the one that opposition of targeted.
But Boomra really is that good? And of course we
can't leave this final without touching on what was either
(10:22):
a sensational boundary catch and emblematic of where the modern
game has got to in terms of outfielding.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Or a little bit controversial. Where do you stand on
this pool?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Do you stand on the boundary rope or do you
stand just inside it?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I feel like I'm arguing with the Almighty on
this one because I saw that Sakyadev said that it
was God's plan for him to take that catch, So
I waited. I do go into this discussion with some trepidation,
but look his dancing feet in the deep. They've talked
about taking one of the most important catches in Indian
cricket history. Look it was that. Where did I sit
(11:02):
on it? I'm happy with it, to be honest. I
think I've got the rule book out. The playing conditions
for this tournament said that it's the cushion, not a
white line, which is the boundary. Literally, Section nineteen point
three says if a solid object used to mark the
boundary is disturbed for any reason, then the boundary shall
be considered to be in its original position. So look,
(11:25):
I just think I don't think that he touched the
tobler owne Yes, his foot was over the sort of
pre marked white line. I understand that it was to
do with where the pitch wills, and it was there
the whole game. And I don't know did a South
African player did Arik not? Yeah, when he thundered into
the fence early on in the match, did he did
he move it and it didn't get moved back into place?
I'm not sure? But either way, look, I think I'm
(11:49):
I like the controversy because I think it's just part
of the game and it's great that there's these stories
and narratives and there's some great little AI videos that
make it look more dubious and so on. But from
my point of view, fear and Square I thought it was.
And you know, my heart went out to David Miller. Actually,
I've got a lot of time for him, and yeah,
well where did you Where did you find it. It
was it God's plan.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, I don't know if it was God's plan. I
don't know if he should bring Vishnu or receiver or
I'm not sure which one governs boundary catches. But I
always like every time I get something over that, now,
my mind immediately cast back to Law's twenty nineteen and
Trent Bolt, And again it was just my immediate thought,
(12:34):
and I try to banish it. I was trying to
get out, Damn thought get out, but I couldn't. I'm
just thinking throw it into capital. But no, I think
it's I think it was fine. Yeah, it would be
really weird to try and explain it to an American
who might have just been into this, getting into cricket
and watching this tournament if that had been ruled not
(12:56):
out because his foot clipped the freestanding white line when
for all intents and purposes, you know, the Tobla owns
the boundary.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I think there are. I mean I think maybe
there's different playing conditions and sometimes it is the line
and et cetera. But yeah, look, it just seemed fair
and square. It was also one of those moments in
the game where you go that is a screamer of
a catch if the match turns on that, you know
fair enough? Actually yeah, and I know, of course I
know David Miller was not sitting in the dug out.
He certainly did not start returning to the dugout till
(13:28):
he'd watched it about a hundred times and then dragged
his bat and dragged his sorry us back to the
South African dugout. And as I say, I did feel
really sorry for him. He's one of those guys I've followed.
I think I've talked about it before. He wasn't playing
or we ended up having a couple of drinks at
a Barrack mount More just not just me and having
the whole bunch of people. And he was a real
(13:49):
good bugger. He told some great yarns about Danie Vittori
and Jesse Ryder and ipl times and all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
He's thirty five years old, of course, famously has never
played Test cricket. Retired from first class cricket twenty eighteen.
He's played two hundred and ninety eight international matches and
zero Test matches, despite having an average of thirty six
and six tons in first class cricket I mean, and
you know, an archetypal just if you were making a
(14:16):
T twenty cricketer. He is the kind of guy that
he plays an incredible fielder. I don't know if he bowls.
I'm sure he probably doesn't. You know that he does
famously famous quote which was from his old man. And
he's been playing cricket like this his whole life. If
it's in the arc, it's out in the park, if
it's in the v it's in the tree. And I
just think, you know, if our dads had given us
(14:39):
that kind of advice, we would be probably much better
cricketers than what we were trying to do out there
DC noirdling it around and so on, you know. And
I felt really sorry for Miller. He was in tears
at the end. I think he felt like, you know, well,
obviously he was probably one foot away from pulling off
what would have been a sensational victory for South Africa.
And you mentioned this before, or he was facing hard
(15:01):
at Pandia. It was a low full toss. He smoked it.
Maybe he you know, wasn't He wasn't one of the
class and ones that were sort of landing on the
solar panels on the roof of the grandstand. But jeez,
he got a lot of it. And I thought when
Pandi was bowling that last those you know, in those
final overs, he's there for the taking. This guy he's
not going to be able to step up to it.
But credit to him he did.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
He did.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah. The other sensational piece of cracket I just wanted
to touch on this before we go, was that runout. Well,
first of all, a Chapatel, how good is a floating
number eight who comes up and just looks sensational forty
seven or thirty one resurrected the Indian innings. But the
runout run him being run out by Quintin da Kock
from the wicket keeper's end he was at the non
(15:45):
strikers in was one of the greatest pieces of cricket.
Absolutely superb presence of mind from Quintin to Cock. Has
he retired? Is he retiring as well? I feel like
it's the last hurrah for him as well.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I kind of felt like this if he is retiring,
it kind of feels like this is a a third
or fourth retirement. It feels like he's stepped aside from
a lot of things. But then I recognize it remembered
that one of them was actually just refusing to play
after refusing to kneel at the World T twenty in
the UAE. So I think I mistook that for a
retirement because I was half surprised to see him here
(16:18):
at the the st of the tournament next year. So
haven't you given the international game away? But yeah, it
was a sensational piece of cricket by to Cook and
a slightly lazy piece of cricket from the otherwise brilliant
Exha Patel.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I think he was just tired. DC. He doesn't normally
back for thirty one deliveries. He certainly doesn't normally get
forty seven. Jesus is a handy, very handy player. Hey,
we should take away break and when we come back,
let's have a quick yarn about what this whole messy, interesting, fascinating,
intriguing T twenty World Cup means for cricket. Welcome back
(16:57):
to the BYC with Dylan Clever and Paul Ford, where
going over the entrails of the Cricket World Cup. We
hardly even really talking about the Black Caps, to be honest.
But Dylan, when you reflect on this tea twenty World Cup.
I mean that's a pretty lofty question. But what do
you think it all means? What's its legacy? Did it
do what it was meant to do? What kind of
things stick in your mind?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Actually, it just felt a little bit messy. Partly that
was weather, Partly that was underprepared venues. Partly it is format.
I don't know if the group to Super eight to
semis to Final works. It just feels like it could
be cleaner. I know that you get less content if
you go straight into the knockouts from from group play,
(17:39):
and I mean content is king right, But I thought
I thought it mostly did it strive?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Really?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
And you've said here we've learned how to use the
word diaspora. Well, I've actually learned how to say it
because I kept on that I would always call it diaspora,
I think. But I went and had a online tutory
and the emphasis is on the s, it's on the
second syllable, So it's diaspora is how you say it.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Did get a real workout during this tournament, didn't it?
Because everyone was kind of like, well, Americans aren't gonna
watch it, and then everyone's like, well no, but diespera
the diaspora will watch it. Yeah, that was definitely one.
But it did feel it felt a bit Mickey Mouse.
I mean, there was the I mentioned the travel thing before,
and I know there were probably good reasons for some
of this, but it did feel like things are slightly
(18:30):
tilted in favor of a risk in terms of that
New York ground b just things just making it a
bit easier for India. It did feel like it wasn't
quite an even playing field literally and metaphorically.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, and the Mickey Mouse reference works well in Mickey
Mouse's second home, which of course is Florida, where they
had four matches scheduled and unfortunately they got just one
of the men and that was a real blow I
think for the organizers. I think the shocking state of
(19:06):
the pitch in.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
New York was clearly a blow.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
But they still got cricket there at least, and they
still got some actually quite exciting games, not the kind
of games you would expect at a Teach twenty betting extravaganza,
but they were still games of cricket that came down
to the wire in some cases.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
But Trinidad was an excuseable.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You're one of the great venues of the world there
in Queen's Park Oval and yet we play on this
brand new venual. Might not be brand new, but it's
new enough. And it was just it was poor cricket.
There's no other word to describe it. I didn't think
the cricket in Diana was great, but it was serviceable.
And I think one of the bonuses for the organizers
(19:51):
was the US playing pretty well. You know, they were
at class once they got to that Super eight stage,
but there was joy unconfined with the way they went
through the group stage. That was fantastic. An Jones belting
untold sixes and ticks and heartland.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
It was great. So I would say, what would I
give it. I'd probably give it a flat B.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Like I sort of a seven out of ten? Is
that where you going with that?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah? Probably six point five seven out of ten. I
don't give half max, so yeah, i'd have to give
the seven out of ten.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Myself.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah. Look, I mean I think you touched on a
couple of things that that when I when I reflect
on this tournament, it's that, you know, T twenty is
a monster, and I know it's a cliche that twenty
overs just brings teams into it that would not be
able to survive in battle in a full blowing dual
over fifty overs at alone test cricket, Well, I don't
think they would anyway, and I think, you know, we
(20:52):
saw that with the United States of America. I think,
you know, probably their players are a little bit distracted
by the fact that they're having to answer their emails.
They went into the Super Eights because they ran out
of annual leave and so they were just having to
sort of work around around the clock on both fronts,
you know. But that rise of the second tier great,
always great when the host nation does well, you know.
(21:13):
So I'm really on board with with what happened there,
although it was probably you know, not great for Pakistan
obviously or New Zealand, and you know, it's hard to
go past Afghanistan. We touched on this last week. There
was also some comments this week about how their travel
arrangements for the to get from the end of the
Super Eights into their semi final. You know, they were
back at the hotel at three am, and then they
(21:34):
were traveling to the next venue at eight am and
playing the day after that. You know, it's pretty that's
pretty tough and as I say, feels like some of
the bigger teams. One in particular, I had a much
more of an armchair ride on that front. The other
interesting thing, just as an aside, I saw just before
we came on here, that there's been an entreaty from
at the Afghanistan women's team, who are unofficial, that they
(21:57):
have asked that the ICC assist them and setting up
a refugee team based in Australia in the absence of
a national side. Of course, woman aren't able to play
because of the Teliban horrific regulations, So an interesting little
conundrum there for icy c chair and all around good
bugger Greg Bark later to assess, that's a pretty tangled
(22:18):
web that's being woven there. I'd suggest for the icy
seed or wade into.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, yeah, PEPs.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It's a chance for him to get back on the
front foot after this issue, because he is a terrific
bloke and he does a great job.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
But the one, the one.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Perhaps misstep in his role was when he described the
taliband's grip on the woman's game there as a blip.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think when.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
You described it, immediately regretted it, and there was clearly
not the context he meanted there, but he was hauled
over the Cole's way.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
The international well, yeah, mainly Twitter, and I.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Think he meant vice like grip not blip, but yeah,
close close. I mean the other thing that caught my
eye is really, you know, there was a mix. I
guess you've seen it with India. In the Indian case,
experienced players are kind of the their rock stars and
were probably the reason that they did so well. In
other cases, teams rolled the dice, took a bunch of
experienced players and came up short. England made the semi finals,
(23:22):
probably on reflection a pretty bloody good effort. Australia of
course not making it through. New Zealand obviously not making
it through. It does feel like there is a real
changing of the guard that's happening amongst international cricket. And
to make that point, it's pretty extraordinary. I heard getting
in Haigues say how Sahinton Dohalka played one T twenty
international and Rat Cooley and Rowert Shama have played what
(23:45):
two hundred or whatever? It has had a quick lock
From a New Zealand perspective, it's just remarkable to think
about this. Chris Ken's played two T twenty internationals and
scored three runs. Nathan Nashtell played four, Stephen Fleming played five,
and Craig McMillan played eight. Tim Soudy one hundred and
twenty six not out, goup To one hundred and twenty two.
Is so one hundred and seventeen not out, Mitchell Satner
(24:07):
one hundred and four not out. Generational shift in how
the game is played.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I know that Chris Ken's won in particularly.
I mean, if there was a format he was born for,
it was probably T twenty right, So.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Wearing David Miller's T shirt in the tree, I'd suggest.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Mind if you go back, if you go back a
couple of generations before that, you can do the same
exercise with the event of one day cricket where it
came in sort of the late seventies early eighties, and
you look back at some of the New Zealand players,
I mean Ken Wadsworth, who obviously passed away back to
you young, but he was one that was identified as
someone who would have been a traffic one day player
(24:49):
never got the chance.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yea, that's exactly right. And yeah, and then the other
thing we just touched on this before, but I did
have a quick block and the T twenty Cricket will
Cup in Sri Lanka and India is February and March
twenty twenty six, so just shy of two years away.
The twenty teams will be divided into four groups of five.
The top two teams in each group will advance to
(25:11):
the Super eight, so brace yourself India and Sri Lanka,
who are pretty lucky. Qualifiers hosts Australia, England, South Africa,
Western Is, USA, Bangaledesh and in Afghanistan are in because they
made the Super eights and then the three least worst
in the rankings after that lot so New Zealander threw
as a Pakistan in Ireland and there's eight spots to
be decided via the regional qualifiers. Yeah, I think you
(25:35):
mentioned this before. India, no Judasia, no Koali, no Shama,
New Zealand obviously no Bolt and probably a host of others.
And there's lots of speculation that Australia won't have the
likes of Warner's gone, but also Max will wag Stark,
those kind of guys very likely to be not on
the scrap pep but sort of easing their way out
of T twenty International Cricket, possibly against their will. DC.
(25:59):
Let's packet there if you didn't have anything more to
throw at that throw at the wall on that particular topic.
And when we come back, will WinCE and never look
at the White Fans. Welcome back to the BBC Podcast.
It's Paul Ford and Dylan Pleaver coming to you from
the Export Beer Garden Studio DYCA. The White Ferns are
pretty tough start to their tour of England. A couple
(26:20):
of drubbings.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, look, losing to England's not surprising, but Jeep
has won a mess just awful. I'll just quickly run
through the short score cads because it won't take long.
In the first game at Chesla Street, New Zealand bettered
first posted one five six England in reply one five
(26:44):
seven for one and just twenty one point two overs.
Moving down the road to Worcester for game two, New
Zealand a game, betting first, posting one for one England
in reply one four to two for two in just
twenty four point three overs. Yep, you heard that right.
(27:05):
The White Ferns have scored sub one sixty in both
games have taken a sum total of three England wickets.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And one of them was a runout.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Look, there's losing to England, and I think everybody that's
listened to the BYC, anyone that follows cricket with any
kind of close lens on the game, on all formats
of the game, will recognize that New Zealand has slipped
a long way behind Australia, England, probably India now. But
there's losing and then there's absolutely not showing up on
(27:41):
what is a pretty high profile tour for them.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, I think I saw it seventeen years I think
we're talking about the Indian injury out. Seventeen years since
New Zealand beat England in a woman's ODI series And
as you say, doesn't feel like, well this series gone already,
but hard to think of one that would be more
lopsided than that. It does feel like we're playing fifty
(28:08):
over cricket from the eighties and England are playing IPLT
twenty cricket. Yeah, really really tough going A couple of
quotes Sophie Devine, new Zealand captain, first game really disappointed
and game two similar trends. We didn't battle over that's
a crime one hundred and forty. You're not going to
be competitive fair play. I think that's pretty much bang on.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I just don't think things are right there.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I think that to miss in terms of I don't
want to go so far to say culturally, because unless
you're in the camp, you don't know what the culture
of a team is like. So I think we can
look outside and go, well, there's something not right there.
But very clearly my understanding was that Jason Wells wanted
to continue in his role as selector.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
He was effectively.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Told no, it didn't have his contract renewed, that they
were going to look in a different direction there. Now, look,
I'm joining dots here. I'm adding two and two and
maybe getting seven and a half. So that but Wells
is very tight with Robbie Kerr. I mean they played
together at Wellington.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Has that a shot across the bows of the power
structure within that team? Maybe is it sending a message?
I mean, I don't know. I don't have answers to these.
I'm not close enough connected, but it feels like there's
something very wrong at the state of women's cricket.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
This team is not getting better.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
We thought that when we hosted the World Cup that
was a low point, right that Bob Carter raising physically
out badly. Getting a more dynamic Australian coach that had
great success as an assystem with the Australian women's team
was a good step in the right direction, perhaps nurture
(30:00):
some of this younger talent coming through. But I do
think you've got to ask it, do we have young
talent coming through? We're still heavily reliant on Saphie Divine
and Susie Bait, who are moving into their mid thirties.
Not seeing the world on fire on this tour very obviously,
but then again, no one knows. And I watched the
(30:21):
way England and Australia play the game now in India
play the game now, and the game is moving more.
I don't mean this in a patronizing way at all,
but it's I guess the skill sets of the game
are moving closer to perhaps the men's game a lot
of power hitting in front of the wicket that simply
(30:42):
wasn't there in the past, and the women's game. I'm
not seeing that translate to New Zealand performance. Some very
good players Mellicur is a very good player. Saviiet Divine
is a player who can power hit in front of
the wicket, very good player. But that's second tier of
players coming through. It just doesn't seem to be there.
(31:04):
And look, I don't know where they go. I don't
know if you have had any deep thoughts on it,
but these are terrible, terrible results. We can't we can't
get away from that. And I think we've said this
over the past couple of years. New Zealand Cricket have
to make some calls here are they going to invest
heavily in the woman's game? So how are they going
(31:24):
to do it? You can just throw money at something
and expect it to be better. You've got to throw
money at it in terms of resource, and where do
you put that resource? Does New Zealand, because it's got
a small talent, Paul, perhaps and load up on their
T twenty and make that the game that the format
they're going to pursue. And I mean, I don't know
(31:48):
over to you, Paul, any thoughts.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I think you do know, Dylan, And then I think
there's some very sevy observations there, and you know, I
think you know We've been a broken record about that
reliance on the same you know, I was going to
say half a dozen, but really it's three or four players,
and it's the next tier and then the tier below that.
And then as you say that, the youngsters coming through
and you know, lots of them have been given chances.
(32:10):
Have they been given chances too early? Is this a
part of a five year plan? There's five years too long?
How's the plan going? I don't like the look of it.
It makes me feel nervous. Yeah, look, I'm not sure,
but yeah, well I guess what I do know is
or who I do know is Jason Wells as an
absolute top man. And yeah, I'm just not sure that
(32:30):
will be better without someone like that involved. So that
that's news to me an interesting one. I will keep
an eye out for him at the Island Blaye Island
Bay Football Club rooms over the next few weeks and
see what we can glean from him.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I mean some players in that team, and I don't
want to pick on individuals because you know, they don't
get the same backing as the men, they ain't get
the same money in that but there's some players in
that team that are getting lots and lots and lots
of chances and doing to nothing with them.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
So do you do you cut them and move on
to the next.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
It just feels like a hot mess at the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
One thing that isn't a hot mess is the correspondence
to the byc. Thank you to everyone that's Scott in touch.
We've got a couple of whipped through here DC. The
first one is from UK Paul and it's on the
Test Captain. See hello fellas. Love listening to your podcast
from over here in the UK always makes me laugh.
Keep up the great work. A question I would be
interested to hear you discuss is who do you think
should be the black Caps Test captain for the upcoming
(33:30):
red ball tour. At the conclusion of the tests versus Australia,
there was a lot of question marks on whether Tim
Souley would remain as skipper. While I have no issues
with Tim as captain as such, the big question really
would be is he a definite pick for selection in
the upcoming red ball games away against Afghanistan, Sri Lanka
and India given the spin friendly nature of these wickets.
If it's place in the team isn't guaranteed. Surely he
(33:53):
can't be captain. The easy answer might be Tom Latham,
though I wonder if it's an opportunity to look to
the future a bit with Daryl or a Glen Phillips
or Devin Conway.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well, that's a good question. I would There's a couple
of things I would like to say. On the first
of all, Mitchell's thirty three Conway to thirty three on Monday,
So is that really looking to the future? If if
they you're next in line. Glenn Phillips would be a
very bold move. But I think he I mean bless him,
but I think he operates on a slightly different wavelength
(34:24):
and most sentient human beings, so it might be it
might be a risk too far, but it's a good idea.
But what I would say is Tim Southy is going
to be captain for those games. And you look at
his record his career. He's taken three hundred and eighty
Test wickets at an average of twenty nine point six
(34:44):
to one at a strike rate of fifty nine point five.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
This will surprise a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Injury Lanka, he's taken sixty four wickets an average of
eighteen with a strike rate of forty five point three,
so miles better than.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
His overall record.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
In India, he's taken fifty two wickets an average of
twenty four point sixty nine at a straight raid of
forty six point nine, miles better better's overall record. I
think people do tend to forget he is a very,
very canny, clever bowler in sub continent and conditions.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But we cannot.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Overlook the fact that he was poor last summer. So
I'm guessing his rope is shorter, but he's not at
the end of it yet.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, I'm on board with that very I had the
same set of stats and I was actually really surprised
that his stats in India in particular, we're better than
his overall career stats. And yeah, look, I think it
seems like it's he's an absolute lock. Tom Latham is
(35:44):
potentially a contender if Saudi decides he needs a rest
or whatever, But I feel like it would be Saudi
making that call, and I just can't see it happening.
He's notoriously fit and notoriously hates not playing too. I think, yeah,
in particular, the STG comes to mind, he's probably far
(36:04):
too grumpy to be twelve men when he's put in
that position. So yeah, look, love the speculation of the discussion,
but I'm with you on that.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I mean, he does need an up to conform. He
can continue playing like you did the last home summer. Else,
I mean, at his age, you are standing to wonder
if he's fallen off the cliff in terms of his performance.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
But we're not there yet. Hey, look is another.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Great piece of correspondence which I will rush through as DCF.
On the future of T twenty black Caps, Hi, all,
I've enjoyed the discussions you've had in the last few
episodes about what changes you'd like to see the black
Caps T twenty approach going forward and which players will
or won't be making the trip to the continent in
twenty twenty six. However, as a key, we living overseas,
specifically the USA, a country desperately trying to convince itself
(36:52):
that watching a one null baseball game is a good
way to spend three hours, and one that thinks silly.
Midn is a ridiculous name for a position, but tight
end and shortstop aren't. My knowledge of the next generation
of black Cap stars could be as best be described
as bugger or I probably couldn't pick Eddie Ashot or
Willow Walk out of a lineup if my life depended
on it. So to that end, I was wondering if
(37:12):
you could add a third discussion to your future Black
Caps teach me any lineup series for the benefit of us, Skiwiz.
You don't get to see a lot of super smash
sport trophy, your plunketshield cricket. Who would you rate as
the up and comers who best fit the profiles and
cricketers you'd like to see in the black Caps T
twenty squad two years in the years coming? He as
if you qualifiers the potential power heading top all a better.
(37:39):
But yeah, who would we like to see in the
next up for the next few years? As the like
said Michael Bracewill, Trent Bolt, Lockie Ferguson and others are
phased out? Cheers all And if I run into any
Kiwis at the Major League Cricket matches in North Carolina
next month, I'll shout them a pint or whip up
a homemade minsen cheese.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Nice house good. It makes me want to travel over
there just for that Minton Cheese. I mean yeah, I
mean we're going to talk about this, I imagine for literally
years to come. But you know, and we have talked
about a few few guys that are in the mix.
What I did I had a quick look at sort
of the highest strike rates in the Super Smash, just
to get a flavor because I feel like you sort
(38:18):
of have a vibe of guys that you've seen play
just when it had to look at some raw numbers. Now,
the highest strike rate from a bating point of view
is Doug Bracewell, which is a bit waking, but you
know there it is a ninety three, not out of
do that, so fair play to him. There's a really
interesting guy by the name of Bevan John Jacobs from
hal Ting who plays for Canterbury. He's been a revelation
(38:39):
in Canterbury Club cricket and he did some really really
good things in the Super Smash and he's in that
another Sapha that's cutting his way in through the New
Zealand scene. I think he's definitely one to watch. I mean,
Tim Robinson's an obvious one. Fin Allen's going to be there.
(39:00):
I like the Max Choo's done some good things. He's
sort of young, possibly not that young. I think I
always talking about him because his auntie is my next
door neighbor. But uh, Mitchy mitch Hay is another one
that I think is worth a crack and a guy
that I know is not young. But you know, I'm
(39:22):
not saying he's David Miller, but a touch of David
Miller as well. O'donnald you know, I think he could
have done some good things. And I think Nathan Smith
is going to be a really obvious one that's about
to break through. So I think those are some contenders
from a batting point of view.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, okay, well I look as well.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I probably perused some of the same stats as you
and Robertson mitch Hay and Dean Foxcroft. Those three are
actually over in the over in India at the moment,
learning to sweep on spinning wickets, so that might be
appointed to where the selectors think the future lies. And
I go so far to say it's a huge pointer.
Dean Foxcroft has planned to deceive a little in the
(40:01):
T twenty game and she but he's certainly got talent.
I love the way he bats when he's when he's in,
but his stroke rate is pretty He didn't I didn't
think he had an amazing season last season. Mooer Bass
is another one who has got talent dripping out of
his paws. Maybe maybe t twenties. Not quite his game yet,
(40:24):
but it will be. I always wonder why Nick Kelly
hasn't ever had a crack and he's about to turn
thirty one, but he always plays well for Wellington.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And then on the bowling front, you know Ben Lister
is still twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Riston p Jason Hoyt, who's sick this week. By the way,
he's actually not dead. Well that thing is.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
But Ben, this is twenty eight he's got. Last season,
I think his economy was just to tick over six
and a strike rate was thirteen, like he was the
pick of the seemers. Eddie es shock unfortunately I didn't
realize this actually, but he had back surgery, really serious
back surgery. He's actually got to I think he might
(41:12):
have even had a screw inserted, which sounds very shame
Bond type of surgery. So I guess we wait bade
a breath to see if he has to reconfigure his
action or anything like that. But obviously he's got a
huge potential as a leg spinner and another guy who's
done nothing yet to justify this lofty place on the
(41:38):
b YC. But just keep half an eye out for
Jock McKenzie.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Chose.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, he was gonna He was in the Blues I
think super rugby squad and he was a two sports
star at high school. He is now throwing his lot
in with cricket. He looked last summer with the times
I watched him. I thought he's possibly not quite there
(42:04):
yet with either discipline, but there's clearly potential there and
I think he might be. He might be kind of
a Blacks, but maybe with a little bit more upside
than the Clackson for the long term because he's very young.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I think he might be twenty two.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah nice and I mean Nathan Smith again for me
just to chuck in a couple of guys that kind
of haven't come through in the bowling, and I know
he's there, he's been in the squad, he's played already.
But Zach Folks I think is going to be a
real gun coming through and definitely a terrific player to watch.
He can bat too, so yeah, there's a few names
there that we're throwing around so that we can claim
(42:40):
them down the track. Hopefully that's helpful DCF, but definitely
a topic the future T twenty black Caps team that
will be wrestling with over the next couple of years.
Ahead of that, TEA twenty World Cup third one. Just
quickly as mother on Devlin, did you guys see Marden
Devlin's rant on the larger number of folks employed by
New Cricket, I suspect Gary Stead is carrying the can
(43:02):
for poor planning. Maybe player empowerment gone astray. Jared Kimber
on his pod made the point that countries like New
Zealand and Sri Lanka with our lesser numbers, are going
to have good and bad periods. New Zealand's at the
end of a great period and it seems that not much.
There's not too much in the way of talent coming through,
at least not the kind of talent that we've been
used to over the past ten or fifteen years. What
are your thoughts, boys.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yeah, look, I didn't see the rent, but I think
by most standards, New Zealand runs a fairly lean operation,
so I wouldn't have thought that New Zealand is getting
clogged up by bureaucracy, head office or in the high
performance system down in Lincoln. That's not to say I
(43:45):
don't think there shouldn't be changes in the high performance
system and they shouldn't be fresh blood perhaps, but I
don't think too many people is the problem there. I
think Jerry Kidner's dead right. You know New Zealand's fortunes
are going to be cyclical.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You try and.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Smooth out that roller coaster as best you can with
good succession planning. Has New Zealand got that right at
the moment, will clearly not if they go into a
tournament with essentially the entire team maybe Finelle and over
thirty and and it's up to the BYC to discuss
who that next wave of talent coming through is because
it's not obvious to other people. So you know, perhaps
(44:27):
they haven't got it right, and perhaps we are on
the brink of a prolonged slump. I hope not, but
we are. I mean, Jared's right, We're never going to
have a factory line of talent like India can that
pulls out of the Rangi Trophy and the I P
l and that sort of thing. It's just never going
(44:47):
to be part of the New Zealand game. So yeah,
that's my thoughts on that, muzz.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, and I agree with you to say, and I think,
you know, as we've, as we've touched on before, it's
been and as he does himself in his email, you know,
it's been an incredible run from a playing point of view.
But I also think, you know, we talk about New
Zealand punching above its weight, and now the expectations are higher,
and that's where we get pissed off when we lose
to teams like Afghanistan. But also I think it's fair
(45:14):
to say that the way that cricket has been run
in New Zealand also punches above its weight. I know
it's controversies from time to time, but none of these huge,
kind of massive things have happened over the last few years.
And I think it's a pretty it's a pretty neat
and tidy shop generally, and I think lots of things
have obviously worked pretty damn well over the last you know,
(45:37):
ten years or so, for sure. So yeah, I think, yeah,
I'm not sure. I'm not sure we should talking about
matter Devlin, because I think that's probably exactly what he wants.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Hey, it was a bad campaign, it was. It was
a poor campaign in the Caapan for this World T twenty.
There are reasons that we've discussed on previous podcasts for
namely pork preparation and maybe coming to the end of cycle.
I don't know if it's deeper than that.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, yeah, And now it's time for a little bit
of Pauwford's violence Corner Paul.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Forward's cricket violence Corner.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Pakistani cricketer Umar Akmal has been arrested for allegedly thrashing
a traffic warden and he was taken to the police
station and charged under sections one eight six, two seven
nine and three five three of the Pakistan Penal Code
four obstructing an official at work, tearing a police uniform
and misbehaving and hurling threats. The traffic warden stopped Ukmar
after he would stopped for violating a traffic light signal.
(46:34):
He counter alleged that the warden had abused and slapped him.
The place where the incident took place has CCTV cameras
all around it. I would ask the authorities to look
at the footage and then decide whether I have done
anything wrong, Umar said, sounds like quite a good defense,
to be fair.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
I'll tell you what the you don't want to get
on the wrong side of two seven six on the
Pakistani penal code, that's for sure. Mar Aknel, What a
curious cricketer he was. I remember he came out to
New Zealand when he was really young, brother of Cameron
ack now the keeper with iron gloves. But he scored
a fantastic test century and I think I might have
(47:11):
been working with Shane Bond on his biography at the
time and I remember him just saying that that kid
is a gun.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
He could be anything, and he really didn't amount to
much at all.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
No, it's always a bad day when you're in the
paper for tearing a police uniform. I would suggest, Hey,
Dylan Cleaver, I think I think that's us. Thanks everyone
for joining us on this week's boy C podcast. You
could fill your week watching the White Fans play in
the Dead of the Night in England live stream via
the ICC website from midnight to night, and then you
(47:45):
can watch the t twenties from one thirty am on
Sunday maybe and in the meantime, if you've got anything
to get off your chest, send us a short diet
tribe to b YC at Beasewague dot co dot nz.
Take care out there, kak on no
Dinna Koto and marste Alter and welcome to the BYC Podcast,
coming to you from the Export Beer Garden studio in
the midst of a week dominated by Indian winds, Indians,
Indian flags and Indian helpable relief. This week we reflect
on the T twenty World Cup Dani Mom and what
it all really means. We gloss over to annihilations of
(00:29):
the white Ferns. We dig into some correspondence from our
legendary listeners and wash it all down with some cricket
violence juice from Pakistani I'm Paul Ford, godfather of the
Beige Brigade. I'm joined by Master of the New Zealand
Cricket Scoop, Dylan Cleaver, our pleasy DNDE of the Substack
sports newsletter Unmissible writing in there the bounce absolute belter
(00:50):
of the newsletter. Highly recommend and I pay for it. DC.
Did you bust out your green, orange and white face
paint and body paint this week?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Actually, it was a really niggli time to watch it,
and I've got a confession. I did watch the match
in full, but unfortunately I already knew the result before
I watched the end of it, but I still found
myself weirdly excited because I didn't actually I didn't realize
the permutations that got us to that Indian victory. And
(01:23):
really how I think we'll address this a little bit later,
but how South Africa were knocking on the door of
history and it was unlocked, yet they couldn't find a
way through.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes, for the three people in the whole cricket and
universe that don't know what happened. Of course, India a
one hundred and seventy six for seven off their twenty others,
the rat Rat Holy finding some form seventy six off
fifty nine balls in the miracle, man akshar Ptel with
forty seven off thirty one, and Nortie and Kishev Maharaj
the pick of the bowlers. And then the South African
(01:58):
chase which looks so bad, then so good and then
ultimately failed, one sixty nine for eight off their twenty overs.
Massive innings from Heinrich class and the Basher Quintin de
Kock was superb. David Millard did some good things, and
it was Hardik Pandia with the most wickets, but it
was Jasper, yes, but Boomra that man, that miracle man again,
(02:19):
who was a real factor in that final. Dylan. I
thought it was an excellent final, actually played on one
of the best pitchers in the tournament, and definitely between
the two best teams. Of course, they both went into
the match unbeaten, having won eight matches in a row.
There were some foi balls and some bullshit in the format.
You know, there was some shenanigans I think around how
(02:39):
it all came together, but we can't really argue with
what the final that was produced.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I thought it was excellent.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You had two teams that are clearly committed to the
T twenty, and you can see that by their domestic competitions,
which are throwing a lot of money, a lot of resource,
a lot of time at two best teams of the
tournament are traditional cricket venue in a town or a
city that breathes cricket and has just such great lineage
(03:06):
of world class players, possibly.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
The greatest of them all.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And Gary Sobers and so everything about it felt right.
It was.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
It was just a.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Really good game of cricket. Verat Poly in his last
T twenty, I know it goes out a winner goes
out with.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Some class I didn't actually realize.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Did you realize what a drought it had been for
India at ICC tournaments? I just kind of assume that
they win these kind of things all the time, but
it was it actually been got to a point where
there was some real anxiety on the subcontinent.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, well, I expected to win. I think it's probably
I mean, there's just so much overwhelming coverage about them,
particularly when these tournaments roll around, right, But I think
it's a thirteen year drought, isn't it. They've lost the
most recently the fifty over final at home, where literally
the entire Indian state expected them to win, and of
course multiple World Test Championship finals. They're always I mean,
(04:07):
they were a sensational team, but as you say that,
the pressure continued to build and certainly over the last
thirteen years they had not managed to deliver.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yes, the twenty eleven World Cup I think was the
last one, and yeah, there was certainly a lot of
fretting going along. As you mentioned that South Africa started poorly,
but let's be honest here they got themselves into a
precision position one hundred and fifty one four after sixteen overs.
(04:38):
That is a Doddle twenty six of twenty four with
two set players, not just two set players, but Klassen
and Miller, who were t twenty.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Gods with the bat. How did they lose from there?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah? I don't know. I mean, obviously it would be
very easy to just say they choked, but you did.
When you're watching the game, you did always feel because
it was real that the joker in the pack was
still those two overs that Boomra had up his sleeve,
and you knew that if he could come out and
wreck and havoc that South Africa and Tail even sort
(05:14):
of that lower order good players. But it did feel
like some of those guys are batting maybe a little
bit higher than you'd ideally want them to do really
kind of so Evrica very reliant on their their top
five really, and after that, you know, with Maharaj and
Yansen coming in, it did feel like they were you
didn't want to see them just quite that early, to
(05:35):
be honest. And so yeah, look, I'm reluctant to call
it a choke, you know, I think it was a
it was just a boomrai actually, And you know, as
you say, they were in trouble early and they were
actually in trouble sort of reasonably late as well. It
was really that not from class in that twenty seven
ball fifty two, but yes you did think as well
(05:56):
twenty six off twenty four they should be okay, a
very well timed injury break. I'm not reading anything into it.
Was literally just a momentum breaker from Richard punt and
then when they came back Class and of course just
gave us wicked away. Just you can't criticize in those
blazing at everything, very unlikely that he was going to
come out and just knock it around ones and twos,
(06:18):
which is kind of what the situation. That's all the
situation needed.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Frustratingly, Yeah, well that's exactly right. I mean, boomra bowl.
That's seventeenth over and I'm sitting there watching it, admittedly
already knowing the result, saying just get your six singles.
You can do all the damage at the other end. Instead,
as you mentioned, Class gave his wicked away. You're dead right,
Marco Jensen. Yensen, batting at least one position too high
(06:46):
at number seven, comes out and tries to block, tries
to play a traditional cricket for defense, and gets his
Poles knocked it and from that moment on you could
feel the tremors in the South Africa and dug out
and I just had well.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I didn't have the feeling. I knew it.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I knew they were going to fall short, but you
could almost sense that hope fading away. Each person that
came to the wicket was a little less confident than
the last one.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
And yeah, in the end, in the end, the best
team one.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
And in some ways it was hard to gauge that
earlier in this tournament because some of the conditions they
played on were it was such a lottery because the
format possibly needs to be ironed out ahead of the
next one. But in the end, I think, you know,
the best team won and we was waving goodbye to
a few t twenty legends after this World Cup, like
(07:40):
came Williamson, Ravi Jadasa who was just a non factor
brit India in this tournament, row At Sharma and Verat
Kohley who had a dreadful tournament until went. It really
really made a motion.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That's right, what I think seventy five He had seventy
five runs in the tournament. That's across eight games. I
can't I be bad at eight times, but let's just
say roughly, and then scored seventy six in the final,
and yeah, he was superban and went through the gears.
I did love. Of course. There was lots of talking
we've touched on this about the joy and the palpable
(08:16):
relief and also the redemption arc of India. And I
saw a couple of reporters sort of pretty obvious to
acknowledge a redemption song by Bob Marley, of course, and
Bob Marley Country over there. But you know, I'm not
quite sure that we can. It's probably drawing quite a
long bow to say that this Cricket World Cup was
the story about a team that had been abducted into
(08:38):
slavery fighting for their physical and mental freedom. I just
feel like that might be a little bit kind of
gilding the lily.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, look, they didn't play a Jamaica reve which is
actually Bob Marley's hometown.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Totally totally good luck. If you were traveling from anywhere
trying to get to that game apparently was absolutely apocalyptic.
If you were a journalist who was not part of
the TV commentary crew, if you were a person who
was not a player, or an umpire apparently, just the
absolutely ridiculous situation where you traveled for ten hours in
what is a direct one hour flight from a couple
of the semi final venues. I know the English media
(09:11):
were absolutely raging, not that they were there, so they
didn't need to worry too much. Yeah, you mentioned DC
those delivery, the delivery to to Marko Jensen, and there
was another sensational delivery to Resa Hendrix, who has had
a pretty difficult tournament, felt like a bit of a
walking wicket, and boom used up one of his best
(09:32):
deliveries on caustling him. I saw Kracken vocal Boomra and
I really related to this. When I was watching those
last the sort of last chapter of that game. They
said Boomra is like phone. He is like the phone
a friend and who wants to be a millionaire. He's
like your lifeline. You know he's going to do something
and it's just a matter of when you're going to
play that card. I mean, that's a pretty extraordinary position
(09:54):
for a for a player to be in.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean he is that good, isn't he. I
actually might assigned one of those previous wickets to him. Incorrectly.
Pandia was also pretty good at the end as well,
and he had been the kind of fragile link in
that Indian bowling line up up till then as well.
He was kind of the one that opposition of targeted.
But Boomra really is that good? And of course we
can't leave this final without touching on what was either
(10:22):
a sensational boundary catch and emblematic of where the modern
game has got to in terms of outfielding.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Or a little bit controversial. Where do you stand on
this pool?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Do you stand on the boundary rope or do you
stand just inside it?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I feel like I'm arguing with the Almighty on
this one because I saw that Sakyadev said that it
was God's plan for him to take that catch, So
I waited. I do go into this discussion with some trepidation,
but look his dancing feet in the deep. They've talked
about taking one of the most important catches in Indian
cricket history. Look it was that. Where did I sit
(11:02):
on it? I'm happy with it, to be honest. I
think I've got the rule book out. The playing conditions
for this tournament said that it's the cushion, not a
white line, which is the boundary. Literally, Section nineteen point
three says if a solid object used to mark the
boundary is disturbed for any reason, then the boundary shall
be considered to be in its original position. So look,
(11:25):
I just think I don't think that he touched the
tobler owne Yes, his foot was over the sort of
pre marked white line. I understand that it was to
do with where the pitch wills, and it was there
the whole game. And I don't know did a South
African player did Arik not? Yeah, when he thundered into
the fence early on in the match, did he did
he move it and it didn't get moved back into place?
I'm not sure? But either way, look, I think I'm
(11:49):
I like the controversy because I think it's just part
of the game and it's great that there's these stories
and narratives and there's some great little AI videos that
make it look more dubious and so on. But from
my point of view, fear and Square I thought it was.
And you know, my heart went out to David Miller. Actually,
I've got a lot of time for him, and yeah,
well where did you Where did you find it. It
was it God's plan.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, I don't know if it was God's plan. I
don't know if he should bring Vishnu or receiver or
I'm not sure which one governs boundary catches. But I
always like every time I get something over that, now,
my mind immediately cast back to Law's twenty nineteen and
Trent Bolt, And again it was just my immediate thought,
(12:34):
and I try to banish it. I was trying to
get out, Damn thought get out, but I couldn't. I'm
just thinking throw it into capital. But no, I think
it's I think it was fine. Yeah, it would be
really weird to try and explain it to an American
who might have just been into this, getting into cricket
and watching this tournament if that had been ruled not
(12:56):
out because his foot clipped the freestanding white line when
for all intents and purposes, you know, the Tobla owns
the boundary.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I think there are. I mean I think maybe
there's different playing conditions and sometimes it is the line
and et cetera. But yeah, look, it just seemed fair
and square. It was also one of those moments in
the game where you go that is a screamer of
a catch if the match turns on that, you know
fair enough? Actually yeah, and I know, of course I
know David Miller was not sitting in the dug out.
He certainly did not start returning to the dugout till
(13:28):
he'd watched it about a hundred times and then dragged
his bat and dragged his sorry us back to the
South African dugout. And as I say, I did feel
really sorry for him. He's one of those guys I've followed.
I think I've talked about it before. He wasn't playing
or we ended up having a couple of drinks at
a Barrack mount More just not just me and having
the whole bunch of people. And he was a real
(13:49):
good bugger. He told some great yarns about Danie Vittori
and Jesse Ryder and ipl times and all that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
He's thirty five years old, of course, famously has never
played Test cricket. Retired from first class cricket twenty eighteen.
He's played two hundred and ninety eight international matches and
zero Test matches, despite having an average of thirty six
and six tons in first class cricket I mean, and
you know, an archetypal just if you were making a
(14:16):
T twenty cricketer. He is the kind of guy that
he plays an incredible fielder. I don't know if he bowls.
I'm sure he probably doesn't. You know that he does
famously famous quote which was from his old man. And
he's been playing cricket like this his whole life. If
it's in the arc, it's out in the park, if
it's in the v it's in the tree. And I
just think, you know, if our dads had given us
(14:39):
that kind of advice, we would be probably much better
cricketers than what we were trying to do out there
DC noirdling it around and so on, you know. And
I felt really sorry for Miller. He was in tears
at the end. I think he felt like, you know, well,
obviously he was probably one foot away from pulling off
what would have been a sensational victory for South Africa.
And you mentioned this before, or he was facing hard
(15:01):
at Pandia. It was a low full toss. He smoked it.
Maybe he you know, wasn't He wasn't one of the
class and ones that were sort of landing on the
solar panels on the roof of the grandstand. But jeez,
he got a lot of it. And I thought when
Pandi was bowling that last those you know, in those
final overs, he's there for the taking. This guy he's
not going to be able to step up to it.
But credit to him he did.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
He did.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah. The other sensational piece of cracket I just wanted
to touch on this before we go, was that runout. Well,
first of all, a Chapatel, how good is a floating
number eight who comes up and just looks sensational forty
seven or thirty one resurrected the Indian innings. But the
runout run him being run out by Quintin da Kock
from the wicket keeper's end he was at the non
(15:45):
strikers in was one of the greatest pieces of cricket.
Absolutely superb presence of mind from Quintin to Cock. Has
he retired? Is he retiring as well? I feel like
it's the last hurrah for him as well.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I kind of felt like this if he is retiring,
it kind of feels like this is a a third
or fourth retirement. It feels like he's stepped aside from
a lot of things. But then I recognize it remembered
that one of them was actually just refusing to play
after refusing to kneel at the World T twenty in
the UAE. So I think I mistook that for a
retirement because I was half surprised to see him here
(16:18):
at the the st of the tournament next year. So
haven't you given the international game away? But yeah, it
was a sensational piece of cricket by to Cook and
a slightly lazy piece of cricket from the otherwise brilliant
Exha Patel.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I think he was just tired. DC. He doesn't normally
back for thirty one deliveries. He certainly doesn't normally get
forty seven. Jesus is a handy, very handy player. Hey,
we should take away break and when we come back,
let's have a quick yarn about what this whole messy, interesting, fascinating,
intriguing T twenty World Cup means for cricket. Welcome back
(16:57):
to the BYC with Dylan Clever and Paul Ford, where
going over the entrails of the Cricket World Cup. We
hardly even really talking about the Black Caps, to be honest.
But Dylan, when you reflect on this tea twenty World Cup.
I mean that's a pretty lofty question. But what do
you think it all means? What's its legacy? Did it
do what it was meant to do? What kind of
things stick in your mind?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Actually, it just felt a little bit messy. Partly that
was weather, Partly that was underprepared venues. Partly it is format.
I don't know if the group to Super eight to
semis to Final works. It just feels like it could
be cleaner. I know that you get less content if
you go straight into the knockouts from from group play,
(17:39):
and I mean content is king right, But I thought
I thought it mostly did it strive?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Really?
Speaker 3 (17:46):
And you've said here we've learned how to use the
word diaspora. Well, I've actually learned how to say it
because I kept on that I would always call it diaspora,
I think. But I went and had a online tutory
and the emphasis is on the s, it's on the
second syllable, So it's diaspora is how you say it.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Did get a real workout during this tournament, didn't it?
Because everyone was kind of like, well, Americans aren't gonna
watch it, and then everyone's like, well no, but diespera
the diaspora will watch it. Yeah, that was definitely one.
But it did feel it felt a bit Mickey Mouse.
I mean, there was the I mentioned the travel thing before,
and I know there were probably good reasons for some
of this, but it did feel like things are slightly
(18:30):
tilted in favor of a risk in terms of that
New York ground b just things just making it a
bit easier for India. It did feel like it wasn't
quite an even playing field literally and metaphorically.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Yeah, and the Mickey Mouse reference works well in Mickey
Mouse's second home, which of course is Florida, where they
had four matches scheduled and unfortunately they got just one
of the men and that was a real blow I
think for the organizers. I think the shocking state of
(19:06):
the pitch in.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
New York was clearly a blow.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
But they still got cricket there at least, and they
still got some actually quite exciting games, not the kind
of games you would expect at a Teach twenty betting extravaganza,
but they were still games of cricket that came down
to the wire in some cases.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
But Trinidad was an excuseable.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You're one of the great venues of the world there
in Queen's Park Oval and yet we play on this
brand new venual. Might not be brand new, but it's
new enough. And it was just it was poor cricket.
There's no other word to describe it. I didn't think
the cricket in Diana was great, but it was serviceable.
And I think one of the bonuses for the organizers
(19:51):
was the US playing pretty well. You know, they were
at class once they got to that Super eight stage,
but there was joy unconfined with the way they went
through the group stage. That was fantastic. An Jones belting
untold sixes and ticks and heartland.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
It was great. So I would say, what would I
give it. I'd probably give it a flat B.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Like I sort of a seven out of ten? Is
that where you going with that?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah? Probably six point five seven out of ten. I
don't give half max, so yeah, i'd have to give
the seven out of ten.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Myself.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah. Look, I mean I think you touched on a
couple of things that that when I when I reflect
on this tournament, it's that, you know, T twenty is
a monster, and I know it's a cliche that twenty
overs just brings teams into it that would not be
able to survive in battle in a full blowing dual
over fifty overs at alone test cricket, Well, I don't
think they would anyway, and I think, you know, we
(20:52):
saw that with the United States of America. I think,
you know, probably their players are a little bit distracted
by the fact that they're having to answer their emails.
They went into the Super Eights because they ran out
of annual leave and so they were just having to
sort of work around around the clock on both fronts,
you know. But that rise of the second tier great,
always great when the host nation does well, you know.
(21:13):
So I'm really on board with with what happened there,
although it was probably you know, not great for Pakistan
obviously or New Zealand, and you know, it's hard to
go past Afghanistan. We touched on this last week. There
was also some comments this week about how their travel
arrangements for the to get from the end of the
Super Eights into their semi final. You know, they were
back at the hotel at three am, and then they
(21:34):
were traveling to the next venue at eight am and
playing the day after that. You know, it's pretty that's
pretty tough and as I say, feels like some of
the bigger teams. One in particular, I had a much
more of an armchair ride on that front. The other
interesting thing, just as an aside, I saw just before
we came on here, that there's been an entreaty from
at the Afghanistan women's team, who are unofficial, that they
(21:57):
have asked that the ICC assist them and setting up
a refugee team based in Australia in the absence of
a national side. Of course, woman aren't able to play
because of the Teliban horrific regulations, So an interesting little
conundrum there for icy c chair and all around good
bugger Greg Bark later to assess, that's a pretty tangled
(22:18):
web that's being woven there. I'd suggest for the icy
seed or wade into.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, yeah, PEPs.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
It's a chance for him to get back on the
front foot after this issue, because he is a terrific
bloke and he does a great job.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
But the one, the one.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Perhaps misstep in his role was when he described the
taliband's grip on the woman's game there as a blip.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think when.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
You described it, immediately regretted it, and there was clearly
not the context he meanted there, but he was hauled
over the Cole's way.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
The international well, yeah, mainly Twitter, and I.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Think he meant vice like grip not blip, but yeah,
close close. I mean the other thing that caught my
eye is really, you know, there was a mix. I
guess you've seen it with India. In the Indian case,
experienced players are kind of the their rock stars and
were probably the reason that they did so well. In
other cases, teams rolled the dice, took a bunch of
experienced players and came up short. England made the semi finals,
(23:22):
probably on reflection a pretty bloody good effort. Australia of
course not making it through. New Zealand obviously not making
it through. It does feel like there is a real
changing of the guard that's happening amongst international cricket. And
to make that point, it's pretty extraordinary. I heard getting
in Haigues say how Sahinton Dohalka played one T twenty
international and Rat Cooley and Rowert Shama have played what
(23:45):
two hundred or whatever? It has had a quick lock
From a New Zealand perspective, it's just remarkable to think
about this. Chris Ken's played two T twenty internationals and
scored three runs. Nathan Nashtell played four, Stephen Fleming played five,
and Craig McMillan played eight. Tim Soudy one hundred and
twenty six not out, goup To one hundred and twenty two.
Is so one hundred and seventeen not out, Mitchell Satner
(24:07):
one hundred and four not out. Generational shift in how
the game is played.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I know that Chris Ken's won in particularly.
I mean, if there was a format he was born for,
it was probably T twenty right, So.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Wearing David Miller's T shirt in the tree, I'd suggest.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Mind if you go back, if you go back a
couple of generations before that, you can do the same
exercise with the event of one day cricket where it
came in sort of the late seventies early eighties, and
you look back at some of the New Zealand players,
I mean Ken Wadsworth, who obviously passed away back to
you young, but he was one that was identified as
someone who would have been a traffic one day player
(24:49):
never got the chance.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yea, that's exactly right. And yeah, and then the other
thing we just touched on this before, but I did
have a quick block and the T twenty Cricket will
Cup in Sri Lanka and India is February and March
twenty twenty six, so just shy of two years away.
The twenty teams will be divided into four groups of five.
The top two teams in each group will advance to
(25:11):
the Super eight, so brace yourself India and Sri Lanka,
who are pretty lucky. Qualifiers hosts Australia, England, South Africa,
Western Is, USA, Bangaledesh and in Afghanistan are in because they
made the Super eights and then the three least worst
in the rankings after that lot so New Zealander threw
as a Pakistan in Ireland and there's eight spots to
be decided via the regional qualifiers. Yeah, I think you
(25:35):
mentioned this before. India, no Judasia, no Koali, no Shama,
New Zealand obviously no Bolt and probably a host of others.
And there's lots of speculation that Australia won't have the
likes of Warner's gone, but also Max will wag Stark,
those kind of guys very likely to be not on
the scrap pep but sort of easing their way out
of T twenty International Cricket, possibly against their will. DC.
(25:59):
Let's packet there if you didn't have anything more to
throw at that throw at the wall on that particular topic.
And when we come back, will WinCE and never look
at the White Fans. Welcome back to the BBC Podcast.
It's Paul Ford and Dylan Pleaver coming to you from
the Export Beer Garden Studio DYCA. The White Ferns are
pretty tough start to their tour of England. A couple
(26:20):
of drubbings.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, yeah, look, losing to England's not surprising, but Jeep
has won a mess just awful. I'll just quickly run
through the short score cads because it won't take long.
In the first game at Chesla Street, New Zealand bettered
first posted one five six England in reply one five
(26:44):
seven for one and just twenty one point two overs.
Moving down the road to Worcester for game two, New
Zealand a game, betting first, posting one for one England
in reply one four to two for two in just
twenty four point three overs. Yep, you heard that right.
(27:05):
The White Ferns have scored sub one sixty in both
games have taken a sum total of three England wickets.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And one of them was a runout.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Look, there's losing to England, and I think everybody that's
listened to the BYC, anyone that follows cricket with any
kind of close lens on the game, on all formats
of the game, will recognize that New Zealand has slipped
a long way behind Australia, England, probably India now. But
there's losing and then there's absolutely not showing up on
(27:41):
what is a pretty high profile tour for them.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, I think I saw it seventeen years I think
we're talking about the Indian injury out. Seventeen years since
New Zealand beat England in a woman's ODI series And
as you say, doesn't feel like, well this series gone already,
but hard to think of one that would be more
lopsided than that. It does feel like we're playing fifty
(28:08):
over cricket from the eighties and England are playing IPLT
twenty cricket. Yeah, really really tough going A couple of
quotes Sophie Devine, new Zealand captain, first game really disappointed
and game two similar trends. We didn't battle over that's
a crime one hundred and forty. You're not going to
be competitive fair play. I think that's pretty much bang on.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I just don't think things are right there.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I think that to miss in terms of I don't
want to go so far to say culturally, because unless
you're in the camp, you don't know what the culture
of a team is like. So I think we can
look outside and go, well, there's something not right there.
But very clearly my understanding was that Jason Wells wanted
to continue in his role as selector.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
He was effectively.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Told no, it didn't have his contract renewed, that they
were going to look in a different direction there. Now, look,
I'm joining dots here. I'm adding two and two and
maybe getting seven and a half. So that but Wells
is very tight with Robbie Kerr. I mean they played
together at Wellington.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Has that a shot across the bows of the power
structure within that team? Maybe is it sending a message?
I mean, I don't know. I don't have answers to these.
I'm not close enough connected, but it feels like there's
something very wrong at the state of women's cricket.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
This team is not getting better.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
We thought that when we hosted the World Cup that
was a low point, right that Bob Carter raising physically
out badly. Getting a more dynamic Australian coach that had
great success as an assystem with the Australian women's team
was a good step in the right direction, perhaps nurture
(30:00):
some of this younger talent coming through. But I do
think you've got to ask it, do we have young
talent coming through? We're still heavily reliant on Saphie Divine
and Susie Bait, who are moving into their mid thirties.
Not seeing the world on fire on this tour very obviously,
but then again, no one knows. And I watched the
(30:21):
way England and Australia play the game now in India
play the game now, and the game is moving more.
I don't mean this in a patronizing way at all,
but it's I guess the skill sets of the game
are moving closer to perhaps the men's game a lot
of power hitting in front of the wicket that simply
(30:42):
wasn't there in the past, and the women's game. I'm
not seeing that translate to New Zealand performance. Some very
good players Mellicur is a very good player. Saviiet Divine
is a player who can power hit in front of
the wicket, very good player. But that's second tier of
players coming through. It just doesn't seem to be there.
(31:04):
And look, I don't know where they go. I don't
know if you have had any deep thoughts on it,
but these are terrible, terrible results. We can't we can't
get away from that. And I think we've said this
over the past couple of years. New Zealand Cricket have
to make some calls here are they going to invest
heavily in the woman's game? So how are they going
(31:24):
to do it? You can just throw money at something
and expect it to be better. You've got to throw
money at it in terms of resource, and where do
you put that resource? Does New Zealand, because it's got
a small talent, Paul, perhaps and load up on their
T twenty and make that the game that the format
they're going to pursue. And I mean, I don't know
(31:48):
over to you, Paul, any thoughts.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I think you do know, Dylan, And then I think
there's some very sevy observations there, and you know, I
think you know We've been a broken record about that
reliance on the same you know, I was going to
say half a dozen, but really it's three or four players,
and it's the next tier and then the tier below that.
And then as you say that, the youngsters coming through
and you know, lots of them have been given chances.
(32:10):
Have they been given chances too early? Is this a
part of a five year plan? There's five years too long?
How's the plan going? I don't like the look of it.
It makes me feel nervous. Yeah, look, I'm not sure,
but yeah, well I guess what I do know is
or who I do know is Jason Wells as an
absolute top man. And yeah, I'm just not sure that
(32:30):
will be better without someone like that involved. So that
that's news to me an interesting one. I will keep
an eye out for him at the Island Blaye Island
Bay Football Club rooms over the next few weeks and
see what we can glean from him.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I mean some players in that team, and I don't
want to pick on individuals because you know, they don't
get the same backing as the men, they ain't get
the same money in that but there's some players in
that team that are getting lots and lots and lots
of chances and doing to nothing with them.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
So do you do you cut them and move on
to the next.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
It just feels like a hot mess at the moment.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
One thing that isn't a hot mess is the correspondence
to the byc. Thank you to everyone that's Scott in touch.
We've got a couple of whipped through here DC. The
first one is from UK Paul and it's on the
Test Captain. See hello fellas. Love listening to your podcast
from over here in the UK always makes me laugh.
Keep up the great work. A question I would be
interested to hear you discuss is who do you think
should be the black Caps Test captain for the upcoming
(33:30):
red ball tour. At the conclusion of the tests versus Australia,
there was a lot of question marks on whether Tim
Souley would remain as skipper. While I have no issues
with Tim as captain as such, the big question really
would be is he a definite pick for selection in
the upcoming red ball games away against Afghanistan, Sri Lanka
and India given the spin friendly nature of these wickets.
If it's place in the team isn't guaranteed. Surely he
(33:53):
can't be captain. The easy answer might be Tom Latham,
though I wonder if it's an opportunity to look to
the future a bit with Daryl or a Glen Phillips
or Devin Conway.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well, that's a good question. I would There's a couple
of things I would like to say. On the first
of all, Mitchell's thirty three Conway to thirty three on Monday,
So is that really looking to the future? If if
they you're next in line. Glenn Phillips would be a
very bold move. But I think he I mean bless him,
but I think he operates on a slightly different wavelength
(34:24):
and most sentient human beings, so it might be it
might be a risk too far, but it's a good idea.
But what I would say is Tim Southy is going
to be captain for those games. And you look at
his record his career. He's taken three hundred and eighty
Test wickets at an average of twenty nine point six
(34:44):
to one at a strike rate of fifty nine point five.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
This will surprise a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Injury Lanka, he's taken sixty four wickets an average of
eighteen with a strike rate of forty five point three,
so miles better than.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
His overall record.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
In India, he's taken fifty two wickets an average of
twenty four point sixty nine at a straight raid of
forty six point nine, miles better better's overall record. I
think people do tend to forget he is a very,
very canny, clever bowler in sub continent and conditions.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But we cannot.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Overlook the fact that he was poor last summer. So
I'm guessing his rope is shorter, but he's not at
the end of it yet.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, I'm on board with that very I had the
same set of stats and I was actually really surprised
that his stats in India in particular, we're better than
his overall career stats. And yeah, look, I think it
seems like it's he's an absolute lock. Tom Latham is
(35:44):
potentially a contender if Saudi decides he needs a rest
or whatever, But I feel like it would be Saudi
making that call, and I just can't see it happening.
He's notoriously fit and notoriously hates not playing too. I think, yeah,
in particular, the STG comes to mind, he's probably far
(36:04):
too grumpy to be twelve men when he's put in
that position. So yeah, look, love the speculation of the discussion,
but I'm with you on that.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I mean, he does need an up to conform. He
can continue playing like you did the last home summer. Else,
I mean, at his age, you are standing to wonder
if he's fallen off the cliff in terms of his performance.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
But we're not there yet. Hey, look is another.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Great piece of correspondence which I will rush through as DCF.
On the future of T twenty black Caps, Hi, all,
I've enjoyed the discussions you've had in the last few
episodes about what changes you'd like to see the black
Caps T twenty approach going forward and which players will
or won't be making the trip to the continent in
twenty twenty six. However, as a key, we living overseas,
specifically the USA, a country desperately trying to convince itself
(36:52):
that watching a one null baseball game is a good
way to spend three hours, and one that thinks silly.
Midn is a ridiculous name for a position, but tight
end and shortstop aren't. My knowledge of the next generation
of black Cap stars could be as best be described
as bugger or I probably couldn't pick Eddie Ashot or
Willow Walk out of a lineup if my life depended
on it. So to that end, I was wondering if
(37:12):
you could add a third discussion to your future Black
Caps teach me any lineup series for the benefit of us, Skiwiz.
You don't get to see a lot of super smash
sport trophy, your plunketshield cricket. Who would you rate as
the up and comers who best fit the profiles and
cricketers you'd like to see in the black Caps T
twenty squad two years in the years coming? He as
if you qualifiers the potential power heading top all a better.
(37:39):
But yeah, who would we like to see in the
next up for the next few years? As the like
said Michael Bracewill, Trent Bolt, Lockie Ferguson and others are
phased out? Cheers all And if I run into any
Kiwis at the Major League Cricket matches in North Carolina
next month, I'll shout them a pint or whip up
a homemade minsen cheese.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Nice house good. It makes me want to travel over
there just for that Minton Cheese. I mean yeah, I
mean we're going to talk about this, I imagine for literally
years to come. But you know, and we have talked
about a few few guys that are in the mix.
What I did I had a quick look at sort
of the highest strike rates in the Super Smash, just
to get a flavor because I feel like you sort
(38:18):
of have a vibe of guys that you've seen play
just when it had to look at some raw numbers. Now,
the highest strike rate from a bating point of view
is Doug Bracewell, which is a bit waking, but you
know there it is a ninety three, not out of
do that, so fair play to him. There's a really
interesting guy by the name of Bevan John Jacobs from
hal Ting who plays for Canterbury. He's been a revelation
(38:39):
in Canterbury Club cricket and he did some really really
good things in the Super Smash and he's in that
another Sapha that's cutting his way in through the New
Zealand scene. I think he's definitely one to watch. I mean,
Tim Robinson's an obvious one. Fin Allen's going to be there.
(39:00):
I like the Max Choo's done some good things. He's
sort of young, possibly not that young. I think I
always talking about him because his auntie is my next
door neighbor. But uh, Mitchy mitch Hay is another one
that I think is worth a crack and a guy
that I know is not young. But you know, I'm
(39:22):
not saying he's David Miller, but a touch of David
Miller as well. O'donnald you know, I think he could
have done some good things. And I think Nathan Smith
is going to be a really obvious one that's about
to break through. So I think those are some contenders
from a batting point of view.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, okay, well I look as well.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I probably perused some of the same stats as you
and Robertson mitch Hay and Dean Foxcroft. Those three are
actually over in the over in India at the moment,
learning to sweep on spinning wickets, so that might be
appointed to where the selectors think the future lies. And
I go so far to say it's a huge pointer.
Dean Foxcroft has planned to deceive a little in the
(40:01):
T twenty game and she but he's certainly got talent.
I love the way he bats when he's when he's in,
but his stroke rate is pretty He didn't I didn't
think he had an amazing season last season. Mooer Bass
is another one who has got talent dripping out of
his paws. Maybe maybe t twenties. Not quite his game yet,
(40:24):
but it will be. I always wonder why Nick Kelly
hasn't ever had a crack and he's about to turn
thirty one, but he always plays well for Wellington.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And then on the bowling front, you know Ben Lister
is still twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Riston p Jason Hoyt, who's sick this week. By the way,
he's actually not dead. Well that thing is.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
But Ben, this is twenty eight he's got. Last season,
I think his economy was just to tick over six
and a strike rate was thirteen, like he was the
pick of the seemers. Eddie es shock unfortunately I didn't
realize this actually, but he had back surgery, really serious
back surgery. He's actually got to I think he might
(41:12):
have even had a screw inserted, which sounds very shame
Bond type of surgery. So I guess we wait bade
a breath to see if he has to reconfigure his
action or anything like that. But obviously he's got a
huge potential as a leg spinner and another guy who's
done nothing yet to justify this lofty place on the
(41:38):
b YC. But just keep half an eye out for
Jock McKenzie.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Chose.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, he was gonna He was in the Blues I
think super rugby squad and he was a two sports
star at high school. He is now throwing his lot
in with cricket. He looked last summer with the times
I watched him. I thought he's possibly not quite there
(42:04):
yet with either discipline, but there's clearly potential there and
I think he might be. He might be kind of
a Blacks, but maybe with a little bit more upside
than the Clackson for the long term because he's very young.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I think he might be twenty two.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah nice and I mean Nathan Smith again for me
just to chuck in a couple of guys that kind
of haven't come through in the bowling, and I know
he's there, he's been in the squad, he's played already.
But Zach Folks I think is going to be a
real gun coming through and definitely a terrific player to watch.
He can bat too, so yeah, there's a few names
there that we're throwing around so that we can claim
(42:40):
them down the track. Hopefully that's helpful DCF, but definitely
a topic the future T twenty black Caps team that
will be wrestling with over the next couple of years.
Ahead of that, TEA twenty World Cup third one. Just
quickly as mother on Devlin, did you guys see Marden
Devlin's rant on the larger number of folks employed by
New Cricket, I suspect Gary Stead is carrying the can
(43:02):
for poor planning. Maybe player empowerment gone astray. Jared Kimber
on his pod made the point that countries like New
Zealand and Sri Lanka with our lesser numbers, are going
to have good and bad periods. New Zealand's at the
end of a great period and it seems that not much.
There's not too much in the way of talent coming through,
at least not the kind of talent that we've been
used to over the past ten or fifteen years. What
are your thoughts, boys.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yeah, look, I didn't see the rent, but I think
by most standards, New Zealand runs a fairly lean operation,
so I wouldn't have thought that New Zealand is getting
clogged up by bureaucracy, head office or in the high
performance system down in Lincoln. That's not to say I
(43:45):
don't think there shouldn't be changes in the high performance
system and they shouldn't be fresh blood perhaps, but I
don't think too many people is the problem there. I
think Jerry Kidner's dead right. You know New Zealand's fortunes
are going to be cyclical.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You try and.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Smooth out that roller coaster as best you can with
good succession planning. Has New Zealand got that right at
the moment, will clearly not if they go into a
tournament with essentially the entire team maybe Finelle and over
thirty and and it's up to the BYC to discuss
who that next wave of talent coming through is because
it's not obvious to other people. So you know, perhaps
(44:27):
they haven't got it right, and perhaps we are on
the brink of a prolonged slump. I hope not, but
we are. I mean, Jared's right, We're never going to
have a factory line of talent like India can that
pulls out of the Rangi Trophy and the I P
l and that sort of thing. It's just never going
(44:47):
to be part of the New Zealand game. So yeah,
that's my thoughts on that, muzz.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, and I agree with you to say, and I think,
you know, as we've, as we've touched on before, it's
been and as he does himself in his email, you know,
it's been an incredible run from a playing point of view.
But I also think, you know, we talk about New
Zealand punching above its weight, and now the expectations are higher,
and that's where we get pissed off when we lose
to teams like Afghanistan. But also I think it's fair
(45:14):
to say that the way that cricket has been run
in New Zealand also punches above its weight. I know
it's controversies from time to time, but none of these huge,
kind of massive things have happened over the last few years.
And I think it's a pretty it's a pretty neat
and tidy shop generally, and I think lots of things
have obviously worked pretty damn well over the last you know,
(45:37):
ten years or so, for sure. So yeah, I think, yeah,
I'm not sure. I'm not sure we should talking about
matter Devlin, because I think that's probably exactly what he wants.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Hey, it was a bad campaign, it was. It was
a poor campaign in the Caapan for this World T twenty.
There are reasons that we've discussed on previous podcasts for
namely pork preparation and maybe coming to the end of cycle.
I don't know if it's deeper than that.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, yeah, And now it's time for a little bit
of Pauwford's violence Corner Paul.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Forward's cricket violence Corner.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Pakistani cricketer Umar Akmal has been arrested for allegedly thrashing
a traffic warden and he was taken to the police
station and charged under sections one eight six, two seven
nine and three five three of the Pakistan Penal Code
four obstructing an official at work, tearing a police uniform
and misbehaving and hurling threats. The traffic warden stopped Ukmar
after he would stopped for violating a traffic light signal.
(46:34):
He counter alleged that the warden had abused and slapped him.
The place where the incident took place has CCTV cameras
all around it. I would ask the authorities to look
at the footage and then decide whether I have done
anything wrong, Umar said, sounds like quite a good defense,
to be fair.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
I'll tell you what the you don't want to get
on the wrong side of two seven six on the
Pakistani penal code, that's for sure. Mar Aknel, What a
curious cricketer he was. I remember he came out to
New Zealand when he was really young, brother of Cameron
ack now the keeper with iron gloves. But he scored
a fantastic test century and I think I might have
(47:11):
been working with Shane Bond on his biography at the
time and I remember him just saying that that kid
is a gun.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
He could be anything, and he really didn't amount to
much at all.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
No, it's always a bad day when you're in the
paper for tearing a police uniform. I would suggest, Hey,
Dylan Cleaver, I think I think that's us. Thanks everyone
for joining us on this week's boy C podcast. You
could fill your week watching the White Fans play in
the Dead of the Night in England live stream via
the ICC website from midnight to night, and then you
(47:45):
can watch the t twenties from one thirty am on
Sunday maybe and in the meantime, if you've got anything
to get off your chest, send us a short diet
tribe to b YC at Beasewague dot co dot nz.
Take care out there, kak on no
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