June 20, 2024 • 44 mins
Dylan Cleaver joins Paul Ford for another episode of NZ's #1 cricket pod the BYC!
In this episode, the fellas go over the shock announcement from Kane Williamson as he chooses not to sign his NZC contract (0:00), then go over the performance of the Black Caps at the T20 World Cup (17:40).
Finally, a 'Cricket Violence Corner' where a NZer is caught up in the controversy (41:31).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the BAC podcast, coming here from the Export
Beer Garden studio in the midst of another I think
gloom laden and fascinating week in recent New Zealand cricket history.
This week we reflect on what the announcement from New
Zealand Cricket about Steady the Ship's future plans. We grind
some gears about the warm down matches against the Uganda
Cricket Cranes and the Papa New Guinea Baron Mundy's and
(00:29):
Davey Dumdum provides more incontrovertible evidence that he's a massive punisher.
I'm Paul Ford, godfather of the Big Brigade, and I'm
joined by a master of the New Zealand Cricket scoop
this week, Dylan Pleaver Our Plenty Dente of the substack
sports newsletter The Bounce DC. How are your optimism levels
this week? Mate?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Flatlining? It's been an interesting week actually, particularly for myself.
As you mentioned, I was lucky enough to get a
tip that King Williams and was about to take up
the option well turned down the option of a central
contract in favor of a casual pain contract. I've sort
(01:09):
of chicily put it in here that he's literally torn
up his contract and thrown it in the face of
New Zealand CEO and friend of the BYC Scott Weenink
Will New Zealand Cricket Players Association CAPO di Caappily. Heath
Mills laughs maniacally from his bolt hole in the Hanua Rangers,
(01:31):
which is a he.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Does have a he does have a bit of a
Marlin Brando feel about him sometimes, Heath Mills, and I
mean that in a loving and respectful way.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes, yeah, So it is interesting. And look I break
the story that he is going to take up a
casual contract. There is all sorts of mechanics around it
that make this reasonably unique. The fact that New Zealand
doesn't have international cricket, doesn't have tests scheduled for that
generary win. He's almost certainly got an option to go
(02:02):
and play in South Africa. And look, if you take
it at face value, he is committing it seems, at
least for the medium to long term to New Zealand cricket.
So I guess I write the news story. So I'm
going to throw the analysis to you, Paul, and then
what does it all mean?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean it was I
guess there was sort of some bread crumbs that went
there after the pupa New Guinea game where he got
asked about what he was going to do and what
were his plans after the early exit, and his words were,
I don't know, which is always that's the kind of
thing that a veteran journalist such as yourself may may
have clocked. He did say, there's a bit of time
(02:44):
between now and the twenty twenty six World Cup India
and Sri Lanka, so it's about regrouping. We've got red
ball cricket over the next year, so it's back into
some other international formats and we'll see where things land. Well,
that's hardly kind of a full level commitment. I think
it did sort of indicate that he was trying to
work out where to next, and I guess part of
that might have been whether he was going to step
away entirely from international cricket, maybe do a home summer
(03:06):
something like that. Yeah, look, sorry, I was just going
to say the other thing as well, of because then
I'd see some comments from Michael absolutely putting the boot
into Kam Willimson a better strike great in the t
twenty world cut, So good on Michael Vaughan for that,
I guess. But yeah, look, I guess with the president
of Trent bolt back in twenty twenty two, it's just
no surprise that some of these guys that are kind
(03:27):
of living in the double worlds of being our best
players and also our most desirable players for TEA twenty
franchises and coming I guess the triple world also being
wanted by the franchises, but also coming to the end
of their careers and just trying to work out how
to have a foot in both camps. It's hard to
(03:48):
sort of deny them that I think that I think
it was Andrew Gordy maybe on Newshubs it's something like
get over it and get used to it. And I
think the alternate reality here is that we don't have
Kine and so I do think that generally New Zealand
cricket here have done a good job. And I think
Scott when taking him at face early and no reason
not to, you know, the basically said world cricket's changing,
(04:10):
it's changing dramatically and we need to continue to be
dynamic with our contracting situation. In other words, A bit
like how we take on Test cricket shit sorry, international
cricket matches. We just kind of have to take what
we're given a little bit in this front. You know,
we don't have the power. New Zealand Cricket does not
have the power. Sure, I mean they could say, cool, well,
if you're going to go and do that, Kane, we're
(04:30):
not going to have you play for us at all. Yes,
that's an option. I don't think that's better. And it's
a pretty funky summer with certainly bugger all crickets at
Bugger all Test cricket and zero Test cricket I think
in January, and you know, it's hard to deny Kane
an opportunity like that. Particularly. I don't know if you
had had a quick look at the numbers DC, but
(04:52):
those salaries in that South African T twenty or the
SA twenty league just just ballpark salaries. Harry Brook he
was on and eighty grand, Jimmy Nish two hundred and
ninety grand, Liam Livingston seven hundred and thirty seven grand,
and Tristan Stubbs the highest paid player eight hundred thousand dollars.
So you know, literally Kan Limson could go over there
and get paid more than when he gets paid to
(05:13):
my New Zealand Cricket. It's it's a it's a it's
just the reality that our guys, as they come to
the end of their careers are going to be considering
their options.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, and I look at a little bit of correspondent
saying this was a silly move by Kane because he's
not good enough to play IPL anymore. He's not that
attractive to IPL, and that look that might actually be true.
The IPL cricket may have moved past Kane and as
his particular style of playing, but he's still hellishly attractive.
I would imagine two franchise leagues like the SA twenty,
(05:44):
like the IL T twenty in the UAE, because he's
a name, he's a great bloke that brings no baggage
with him, and he's almost effectively like a player coach
within some of those setups. It's scoop for the young guys.
So I don't think he's I would push back on
the notion that the T twenty game has moved past them.
(06:05):
I think maybe the IPL has and maybe his shortcomings
have been exposed a little bit. Even T twenty eyes
but there's still certainly plenty of opportunities for him to
cash in that respect here right back in the country
this morning as it happened, and did a stand up
media at Aukland Airport and here's what he had to say.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I think everybody has a different situation and they're trying
to assess what it is for them and for me
and my family and at the stage my career and
the calendar that we have coming up, it's something exciting
and something to look forward to and something a little
bit different without really interfering with the international schedule. So
(06:51):
although it's turning down I suppose a central contract, it's
really no different in terms of the playing schedule and
representing New Zealand. I mean, I want to play as
long as I can. I love playing for New Zealand.
I've really really enjoyed my time captaining and it's been
(07:12):
a privilege and an honor to do that for a
number of years. And I'm excited with what's next for
the team in terms of their leadership as well, and
I'm looking forward to being a part of that. In
terms of a time frame, it's difficult to say I
want to keep being keep doing as well as they
can keep trying to improve and play as long as
they can.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, look, I think that's probably what you'd expect, came
will him to say, and he came and listened to say.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And maybe once he's torn us, maybe once he once
he's actually torn his contract up, he might. Do you
think he might start sort of swinging from the rafters
become an incredibly amazing media or if you're just teeing
off on people left front and center and taking no prisoners,
or do you think he's going to just keep sort
of kneting and just keeping everything out DC.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I think he still likes to play a fairly straight
back when the opportunity present itself. And look, I would
say that, look, this may be a positive in this
particular case as regards Kane Williamson's immediate future with the
black Caps. And we all I mean purists, we're purists.
We want to see him played Test cricket for as
long as possible. We want to see him smash some
(08:15):
of those batting records. Well he's actually already smashed all
the New Zealand betting records. We want to put them
into areas that perhaps no one is going to get
to in our lifetime so when we're old and gray,
we can tell our grandkids about the magnificence of Kane Williamson.
But I do think that it's gilding the lily slightly
to not acknowledge that this, the widest symptoms of this
(08:42):
are troubling for New Zealand cricket and that the Super Smash,
which is our franchise T twenty League, just holds no
appeal for our best players. Maybe I'm being a little
bit hash there about it, not by much.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I think you are, And I think where it's getting
to as well, is that not only is it why
is it not appealing? It's because the best players aren't
playing because they are in hot demand in South Africa,
in the UAE and Pakistan and the new American League
that's going to spark up, which is going to clash
pretty much directly, and then you've got the Big Bash
pretty much either just before just after. I've got that
(09:21):
schedule in my brain. I know they've compacted it a
bit to sort of get out of the way of
other tournaments and so forth. But yeah, it's yeah, it does.
I guess reiterate what a backwater the Super Smash really
is from an international cricketer's point of view.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, but it also the Super Smash does make up
at quite a significant portion of what New Zealand Cricket
sells to the local broadcasters. If your TV and z
now or your Sky TV and you're looking to negotiate
the next deal with New Zealand Cricket, they're not really
in a position of strength when they get around that
table and say, hey, we've got this great T twenty
(09:56):
product for you that you can put on prime time
in those summer months where people are sitting around having
beers with their mates. They are going to push back
on that.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Now, that's right, and you know, just to remind people,
so currently, if you're a player with a central contract
with New Zealand Cricket, you have to commit to obviously
playing the international matches pretty much, and you have to
commit to being available for the Super Smash competition. That's
kind of those are the two main criteria around availability.
And yes, you're right, if you're going to have players
(10:28):
kind of we're going to have that as a rule
with a couple of asterisks, and those asterisks are your
most important players. Yeah, look, I think yeah, that's right.
One thing I would say is I have absolutely no
doubt that when Williamson talks about wanting to play for
New Zealand and his I guess his patriotic calling and
(10:49):
how much he loves playing for the team, that does
ring true with him. You know, he could one hundred
percent have been pulling up stumps here or saying, hey,
I'm going to play the Test matches against England and
I'm going to go into Christmas and I'm going to
put my feet up and I'm just going to travel
the world with my little kids and my English wife
and kind of you know, never play for New Zealand again,
and I don't think anyone would be wouldn't be sad,
(11:11):
but you'd go, you know what, he's done a pretty
bloody good shift. But yeah, interesting, very very interesting times
for cricket in New Zealand and New Zealand cricket for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, hey, if this is the last time came Williams
and ever captains this country, and it's looking more and
more likely, it's a non negotiable. You cannot kept in
your country if you're not on a central contract. You know,
what's his legacy, what's the kind of what's his premature
that he leaves on New Zealand cricket as a skipper.
And before you say that, I'm just going to run
through a few facts and figures for you. And tests
(11:45):
he kept him forty times for twenty two wins as
a veteran as a captain, the average fifty seven point
four to three, which is higher significantly higher than his
overall average eleven hundreds. As a captain, he kept him
the second most tests after flem and had the second
best winning percentage of those who are captained at least
ten tests, behind the one and only Tim Salvey who's
(12:08):
captained exactly ten tests. ODI Eyes he kept in ninety
one times for forty six wins. He averaged fifty one
point three five as a batting captain and ODI eyes,
which again is significantly higher than his overall average seven hundred,
second most ODI Eyes captain behind Flemm. Somewhat surprisingly, this
actually six best winning percentage of a captain with those
(12:30):
who are at least ten games skippered behind Tom Lathan,
Brenda McCallum, Daniel Vittori, which was surprised about actually Jeff
Howth and John Wright, which was even more surprised about
T twenty is captain seventy five times fifty percent plus
winning record just over fifty percent. I think most T
twenty eyes captained obviously averaged thirty three point six moore
(12:52):
with the bat with sixteen fifties only a tiny bit
higher average with the bat as a captain. Those are
the raw numbers, but more generally, more holistically, how do
you view him as captain across those formats?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, I guess that's the thing. Is he going to
go down in time as probably our greatest when you
look at some of the results that the team has
gained with him, either as a player or as a
captain across all formats. He has been one of those
constant presences over the last fifteen twenty years. Whatever you
just said, so an extraordinary batsman, a fantastic captain across
(13:31):
all formats, and I guess a leader of men in
a very kind of came Williamson way, just that classic
way that we've talked about before. New Zealanders love it. Sure,
Brendan McCullum was did it in a different way. But
Kaine Williamson as your stoic follow me kind of a
guy I've got this, I never panic acknowledge you very
(13:51):
respectful of the opposition, all of those sorts of things.
You know, I think he's going to be looked back
upon it. People are going to get well, he's literally
already talked about us the one of the all time greats,
potentially our greatest cricketer of all time. Even anytime you're
being mentioned in the same breath as Sir Richard Hadley,
you know, you're starting to be in quite a pantheon
of New Zealand cricket. And I think, you know, I
(14:14):
guess I've kind of touched on it there, but I
think that the way that he's played the game, you know,
I think the guys that have played with him, I
think he's managed to keep the team together potentially, you know,
after Brendan McCullum, you could have seen things splinter and fragment,
but the fact that Kane was there and we call
him steady the ship, and you know, it's steadying that
ship of the black Cats. In this sense, he's the
(14:34):
kind of person that players stay around to play with
a because he'll probably help you win the games. But
he's obviously just one of those guys that people get
out onto the field for and play for. He brings
them together not Yeah, so I think that that piece
around the way that he's played the game, and the
other thing is as well. And you know, I don't
get heaps of stock on this, but you do get
the sense that he's the kind of person that gets
(14:56):
on with basically every single player in international cricket, which
is quite extraordin.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, I find it almost I find it quite tricky
to describe his legacy as a skipper a skipper because
following the black Caps during the Brendan McCallum Captaincy era,
it was almost like a visceral experience, not so much
with Cain Williamson, but it was kind of better. And
(15:23):
I'm not quite sure why. I really struggled to articulate
why I enjoyed watching the black Caps under Kane Williamson,
possibly more than I did it under Brenda McCallum. Yet
Brendan mcallum, it was just such a seat of the
pants ride. It was bastic, Yeah, And it was all
those cliches like tumbling into advertizing hoardings to save a
(15:44):
meaningless one in this kind of thing, and it was
great fun. But it was almost like he set them
up and then came Williamson. Just it was this ultra
smooth transition. Maybe we drifted back into more percentage style
of cricket. Not I wouldn't go so far as to
say we went back to the Daniel Vittori very kind
(16:05):
of statistical, data heavy percentage style of cricket. But there
was something that was there was a bit of a
sparkle missing, and yet the way they went about it
was just so pristine that I thoroughly enjoyed it. I
followed them around for a summer as a reporter while
I was still at the Herald. It was the summer
(16:26):
they qualified for the World Test Championship. Unfortunately I didn't
get to go to Southampton and watch the crown and glory,
but I covered all those tests where they qualified and
it was the most fun I've had covering cricket. And
yet I'm not quite sure why, and I've struggled to
articulate it, and that will always be my I guess
(16:48):
as paradox I have with Caan Williamson, but I think
he is New Zealand's greatest cricketer. And if you want
to argue, the toss was Sir Richard Hadley, I'm happy.
I'm happy for you to do that because Paddles was
a legendary and groundbreaking and barrier breaking in terms of
giving New Zealand cricket that respectability that never had. I
(17:10):
just think came on Us has probably done more for
the game overall. But yeah, it's it's sad, but I'm
glad we've got them as a player in a world
class batter. But it sounds like another three to four years.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll take every little piece of that
hairy little man from Totalinger that we can get over
the next few years. Hey, we're going to take a
quick break the see and then we'll come back and
we'll go into the entrails of the World T twenty
campaign and New Zealand's warm down games. Welcome back to
the BYC and DC. I think you've described it as
(17:49):
New Zealand peaking perfectly to thrash Uganda and Papa New Guinea,
giving those a cricketing superpowers a jolly good hiding and
teaching those basards to lesson. Is that your sort of
take on things?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, yeah, I thought they'd give They plan this campaign perfectly,
really didn't they They knew they were underdone getting the air,
but it didn't bother them one little bit because by
the time they got to it was Uganda first, wasn't it.
They were ready to put them to the sword, dismissing
Uganda for forty and then chasing it down with their
loss of just one wicket in five point two overs.
(18:25):
They followed that up again by inserting Papua New Guinea
and dismissing them for seventy eight and then chasing it
down with the loss of three wickets. Actually, and it
took them a wee while twelve point two overs to
win by seven wickets. We had a man on the
ground over there actually pulled. Do you want to read
what he has to say about this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, we did, We did. Yeah, it's an interesting little
piece of correspondence. Well, that all went about as well
as expected. But I have to get this off my chest.
What a dick move by caning to bowl first last night.
He could have at least let the guy smash two
hundred against the minnows and give the new Deellan and
who traveled. There's something to cheer about. I love Cane,
but it was like they just wanted to get home.
Early after the game, the Augaendon players came over and
(19:07):
acknowledged their fans who traveled halfway around the world from
Africa to support them. We got away from Lovely Trinity anyway,
I'm off the Lucia now for the West Indies versus
Afghanistan game, which I thought would decide our place in
the quarters. I'm a West Indies fan now looking forward
to the next podcast. It's from Mark. Cheers Mark and
safe travels. Mate tough over there.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And we also received this from Matt. He said, Hey, guys,
is watching our guys sit on the sideline on the
IPL and then playing poorly when they do play get
kind of humiliating for Black Cat fans. It was okay,
then we would perform well on tests and World Caps.
I prove everyone wrong. Do these guys think they're not
preparing well and getting thrashed at the World Cup will
(19:48):
earn them lucrative T twenty contracts first really negative message
in a long time from Matt, So there is a
little bit of angst. Yeah, after all Matt described came
Dick move. Perhaps he's one that's not as upseid as
a number of people are. That he's tuning down the
(20:08):
Captain sy look. I don't know if we need to
scavenger around in the intrails of that campaign much more
than you already had, other than say it did not
go well. Paul.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, I think that's fair. Maybe I did hypothesize that
perhaps the players were a bit worried about cricket violence
corner being committed by those New Zealand fans who traveled
ten thousand miles to be at that game. And yeah,
I do wonder if the players just wanted to get
the hell out of there. I'm not really defending it,
more of an explanation really. I guess the most interesting
(20:42):
things about that game were, and I think Cole Mill
said this actually on the Agenda podcast, it's a weird
T twenty game when the thing that you're talking about
the most of twenty four dot palls, which is of
course what Luckie Ferguson brought to the party, alongside the
very very valuable wickets of course of Vala, Amini and Soper.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
So's so fair. I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I guess the other thing that caught my eye thin
Allen got a couple. I think it gets again a
bit failed again against a Papa New Guinea. He has
had a tough tough time and yeah, look nice soy
to finally get a game. That's the other thing that
caught my eye. He would have had a very frustrating
couple of weeks over there.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, we should probably talk about Lucky a little bit actually,
because and just to go to max point one more time,
I think we would be more patronizing if you win
the tis on clearly a bowl first wicket and then
just have a bat for ships and giggles. I don't
think cricket quite works like that. So I will defend
Kane and this decision to bowl first, although if I
(21:47):
was at the ground and a travel that far, I
would have also been mortified, So I think you can
both be right on this occasion.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
We're probably also slightly surprised that New Zealand did actually
read the conditions correctly in the substance and managed to
get the job done after making the right decision.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, but Lucky for over his four maidens three for
naught is extraordinary, and he backs it up also with
the news that he is to decline his national contract.
He won't be given the kind of sweetheart deal Kane
is getting and I think there's fine. I think that's
fair enough. I think Lucky probably understands it's fair enough. Yeah,
(22:24):
thoughts on Lockey's decision, and I guess his future because
he is still equality bowler to twenty high level.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I was just trying to work that out this then
I'm sure you can clarify this for me. So Lockie
Ferguson has declined a central contract, which means that does
that mean that he is no longer available for New
Zealand for white ball games or is he running a
sort of a Trent Bolt scenario where he can kind
of or a Jimmy Nishan type scenario where he's freelancing
and available to play and will be picked. So he's
(22:53):
available to play and can be picked. I guess that's
my question.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, he can still be picked. But the difference, I
guess between getting right into the weeds of contracts here.
But I guess the difference is if you're on a
central contract, you get a retainer for the year and
then you get your match fees on top of that.
Kaine has moved onto a casual contract, so when he
is available for New Zealand, when he's in camp with
New Zealand, he will be paid a retainer for that
(23:17):
time as well as his match fees. Lucky Ferguson and
I believe in a mill might be another one who
turns down a central contract when they play for New
Zealand they are playing for match FEESH.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Gotcha, that's a great clarification. I guess the other point
that has been made and maybe applied inconsistently or on
a needs must basis, but is that you would expect
that centrally contracted players will be preferred primarily ahead of
casual players and uncontracted players. So that would you know,
Lockeye's move would would probably be good news if you
(23:50):
want to put it that way, for the likes of
will I Rourke. Ben says, those guys that are kind
of fringe selections at the moment and when all the
big dogs are back, they're not quite breaking that that
that to eleven.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, So those guys that are hovering around sort of
twenty one to twenty five on the ranking list that
just miss out on the central contracts and they would
then be bumped down to the top domestic contracts which
really only contract for six months and I don't know
who is around that twenty one to twenty five mark
that you are probably talking about your O'Rourke's And no,
(24:23):
actually Orock will be well up the list now because
he's shun so.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
It's got ever been a Nathan Smith or something like that, Nathan.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Smith as sears, maybe even a Henry Nichols who's really
only considered for ODI and tests and he's been dropped
from the test team. He's probably hovering around that twenty
twenty one level now, So that those sort of guys
might be having it a couple more decide to hand
in their contracts and because we shouldn't make an idea
(24:51):
that they still are desirable, I think for the bulk
of cricketers in New Zealand, as central contractor is very desirable.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's yeah, well that's it's a six fo sum, isn't it.
So you know, if you're going to turn down that contract,
you've either got to be backing yourself that you're going
to be doing well in a profession as a professional
cricketer in other parts of the world, or you've got
a really good day job with heaps of annual le
So yeah, good luck with either of those two things
that's are pretty both are pretty niche arrangements. I guess
the other thing that we might see in terms of
those contract lists is we might get a little taste
(25:21):
of how the selectors are seeing New Zealand's needs for
the future of T twenty. And if you've got any
thoughts on the types of things that you'd like to
see in terms of I guess reconfiguring the approach that
the black Caps are taking two T twenty, given it's
proven reasonably ineffective apart from against a couple of smaller nations.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I've noted three things that I'd like to see.
I'd like to see more power up and down the order,
but particularly up the order. We can't just throw the
entire burden under Finellen, who has discussed ad nauseam. We're
still not quite sure if he is going to be
able to deliver consistently enough add international level to be
the player we need him to be the top. So
(26:02):
more power up and down the order. I think We've
got a great white bull bowler in mitchell Santina, but
I'd like to see faster, flatter spinners I think we've
got and I think I might have mentioned this last week.
If I didn't, I mentioned in my newshetter. I think
we've got very good, very clever, good wicket spinners who
(26:24):
can out fox batners from time to time. But I
think when the conditions suit spin bowlers, we need guys
like Judasia and Go from the Western is Akila Hussein
who just rip it and just bolt good balls fast
at bulls that are hard to score. So I'd like
to see that. And finally, as I've made a note here,
I would like to see a hard assed, virulently rednecked,
(26:46):
deeply unpleasant Australian fielding coach who is just going to
get those boys and give them no leeway whatsoever. He
is going to be on them. They're going to hate
him and hate every minute of working with him. That
they're going to restore New Zealand's pride in the field.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, brilliant, Okay, I wonder I wonder who's available? It
sounds are you advocating for Matthew Hayden to join the
New Zealand cricket team. Are there a few exceptions to
your veto as part of your bat plan?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
See what's beyond deeply unpleasant? You can't go beyond that.
So I'm thinking more more in terms of like your
stumper ricks and kind of guys. Actually the skit love
for you. He was quite he was quite a good
BLOKEP See, well we'll talk about it.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Surely there's a guy called David Warner that's going to
have a going to be looking around for offshore jobs.
I'm sure he'd be real keen to come and help
the black Cats.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah. Yeah, what about yourself? If you identified anything that
you'd like to see more of or see introduced into
the black Caps T twenty environment.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I mean, I guess I'm just aligning with a couple
of those points that you make. You know, I think
we talked about it last week, but that you know,
it's the writing instructions that go to finale. And if
you're going to have him, if we're going to have
we're going to make the most of those thirty six
balls in the power play, then we're going to have
to absolutely redline that top order. So yes, you know,
you talk about power up and down the order, and
I think maybe the power is there, it's just like
let's absolutely commit to using it. That's the way T
(28:10):
twenty crickets going and we are falling behind when we're
just trying to sort of knock it around and mow
down any total really really late bottles are getting smarter,
and I think we're missing some opportunities at the top.
So completely agree with you there. And yes, how good
would it be if we could get Rushi Khan to
immigrate to New Zealand? You know, given the current state
of the international deploymacy between the two countries, possibly unlikely,
(28:31):
but yeah, we need where do we get a mystery
spinner from in Hamilton, Palmerston North, you know, Lincoln or
your beloved, your Plymouth, you know, I'm not sure that
they exist. There's a couple of guys, Addie a shock,
I guess, is floating around. Yeah. Look, I think those
(28:51):
getting getting our guys overseas and actually playing in some
of these international T twenty comps feel super super important because,
as you say, that's those are the types of spinners
that are going absolute gamebusters. If the West Indies can
do it, I suspect that we can as well. But Gi,
it's going to take some big changes in our pictures
and the way that we're bringing players through and getting
some of those new Zealand a guys over to weird
(29:12):
places to do weird things.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
One other thing I thought of, we're probably in the
market for a left arm swing bowler now as well.
I know. I know Jason Hoyt was with us now
he might be advocating for Ben Lister, although he went
a bit off them last summer to me, which was
a bit rough. It was like it's like he felt
spurned by him when he didn't immediately start taking five
wicket bags for the New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Very fickle, very thick, Jason, very fickle. Hey, I don't
know if you've caught any of the South Africa versus
the United States match this morning, DC. It's it's Super
eight time because New Zealand not there. It does mean
I only watched the replays. But Servica beating the United
States by eighteen runs in the first Super eight game
at Antiga, I think sound yep.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
South Africa racking up on hindundred and ninety four for
four and I had a chicken a little bit on.
I Quentin Takock to come right in this game and
he did absolutely blazed away. I think he got seventy
four and I'm sure the South Africans would have absolutely
loved being on an actual cricket ground that didn't have
the field, the sand spray painted green to look like grass,
(30:21):
and a pitch that seemed to be pretty pretty pretty
sweet to bat on. They walloped at one hundred and
ninety four for four. To be fair, the United States
one seventy six for six, a pretty decent run chase
with some absolute fireworks from Andreas, the South African born
(30:42):
well expat, I guess, but eighty not out extraordinary, not
from him.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah it was USA if you been really handy at
this World Cup, and obviously they have any of the
big greatest SA conditions either. But yeah, I've been quite
impressed with them, and I hope it's made a little
dent over there. The guy de Travka keep I'm forgetting
(31:06):
how to say his name properly. The Indian Petrovoka Travalka. Yeah,
the Indian left Armor Silicon Valley executive. He bowled really
well again, So yeah, fair play to them. At the
moment I was just going.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
To say, you want to speak about hard art, virulently
red neck, deeply unpleasant Australian coaches. They've got Stuart law
in there and he did soften a little bit this week.
He broke because I think he's been flogging them to
death in the field and all that sort of thing.
And he was asked where many of his players had
to go back to their bosses and ask for extendedly
but he said yes, yes, quite a few of them
actually did. They only sort of booked out to the
(31:45):
group matches. So yeah, I think there's a few of
them becoming national heroes. I'm sure the bosses have signed
those off wholeheartedly. But just an interesting little sideline there
from from Stuart Law as we're speaking at the moment. Actually,
it's obviously is pointless giving you a match report to
a game that's halfway through, well not even halfway through,
and will be finished by the time you're listening to this.
(32:06):
But I can tell the West Indies are betting first
against England at Saint Lucia and after fourteen point two
overs are one hundred and twenty five for one with.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Oran and Powell going great guns and Powell has just
hit two six is in a row off Livingston, so
it's now one hundred and thirty one for one and
that is a Group two match being played. At Saint Lucia. Tonight,
well overnight we have Indiana versus Afghanistan. It's a Group
(32:38):
one match. The Superwates are split into two groups. That's
in Barbados. Tomorrow lunch time we have Australia Bangladesh Group
one from Antigua and then Saturday two thirty am England
South Africa Group two from Saint Lucia. The Saturday lunchtime
game is West Indies USA Barbadoso thirty in the morning
(33:01):
Bangladesh be India at a Antigua and then Sunday lunchtime
game is Afghanistan for Australia and that kind of takes
you through the weekend a lot of cricket. It's just
even reading that out, it feels sad to read that
out without New Zealand there. New Zealand should be there
ahead of your likes. If you're usas your Bangladesh is
(33:22):
your Afghanistans, well they shouldn't because they didn't qualify. But
you know, it's it's it's doesn't feel right that those
teams are.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's a new Lit cricket podcast. It doesn't. But I
can tell you that the Afghani cricket podcasts are absolutely
rubbing their hands with glee, and all of the American
cricket podcasts are very very excited, and the Bangladeshi ones
as well. I think those three teams are probably all
quite surprised to be there and having the well they're
going to rather if they're going to run a full
Netherlands vibe and just be extremely happy to be there
and just go absolutely nuts and have a hell of
(33:56):
a time to look like the Americans were like, well,
we're not going to just knock it around and get it,
you know, and just sort of see how we go.
We're going to absolutely go for it and try and
make some magic happen. We're in the bonus round. I
do really hope that England get up and do something
interesting it gets the sorry. I hope that the West
Indies negate England's attempts to ruin their home tournament. That
(34:17):
would be good on today's game, and God wouldn't be
lovely to sit down slightly hangover on Sunday after the
Super Rugby and the Warriors on Saturday night and watch
Afghanistan do something filthy to the Australians.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, we'll be good. Hey, We're going to take a
short break now and then come back with some from
the David Warner files and a bit of violence.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Welcome back to the BYC. You're with Paul Fordham, Dylan
Cleaver talking absolute rubbish about King Williamson, the Black Caps,
delving into the intrails of the T twenty World Cup
and now DC you've got a little bit of news
from our great free to the podcast, David Dumdam David Warner.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Let's see of the Super eight opener against Bangladesh. He
was speaking to NewsCorp and to the Cricket dot com
Dot Au website and Antigua and he said, since twenty eighteen,
I've probably been the only one that's ever copped a
lot of flak. And he's course talking about the the.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Use of sandpaper at Capetown.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
All tampering scandal of Cape Town and the aftermath of
Vans and to which Michael Clark said on a ESPN
Cricken Foe show that he's involved in that he's a
panelist on, he said, Davey has certainly copped it, There's
no doubt about it. I just think the timing is
probably not right. I think it probably would have been
(35:45):
suited for the end of a World Cup rather than
the middle of it, because there's probably other players in
the team who would prefer this not to be spoken
about right now. But there's parts of what he said
that are correct, and I'm not actually sure that there's
not many parts to it. For a start, he's basically
you just said, he's the only one that's been really
(36:05):
penalized for the bull temporary scandal, and I think Kivin
Bancroft will quite like a word given he hasn't played
a test since.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I do seem to remember seeing a few photos of
Steve Smith crying as well. I think it's another signal
of David Warner's self obsession. I think that the world does.
He does seem to review the world, as you know,
with him at the center of it. So I'm trying
to get to and I think, yeah, it's an interesting one.
I think there is a little bit of an undercurrent
in there, though, which is that you know he's kind
(36:37):
of I think there's two things. He's under a lifetime
leadership band. So you know, you do your crime and
do your time, well not in this case, you do
the time and then you just keep doing the time,
and that you can never kind of escape that that.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Punishment, and he did ask for that to be reviewed
and it was rejected, wasn't it Yep?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yep? And his wife very helpfully waited in on that battle.
And you know, you know, I think fair enough, to
be honest with you, I think that's a pretty reasonable
thing to dig into from a just a natural justice
point of view. But anyway, that's that's done and dusted.
I think the other thing that's in his comments is
that it's kind of you know, he is hinting that
(37:14):
other people involved around this were protector that that's an
interesting little thing there, and he himself, I think the
follow on quote from the piece that you mentioned was
that he said, I've taken a lot of pressure off
a lot of guys as well, and I think understandably
I've been the person to be able to absorb that.
But one can only absorb so much. Yeah, there's some
(37:35):
interesting dynamics in that team, I imagine around that incident
still ongoing.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Well, there has always been this feeling that it's curious
that the three people penalized for the ball tampering are
all batters who didn't directly stand to gain from the
ball tampering and that the bowling attack on that day
have got away scott free. That is I mean it
(38:00):
probably hasn't been written, but that is the unspoken septics
of that, isn't it. But you know totally and you.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Know over those when we talked about it before. But
the other thing is that one hasn't been an absolutely
magnet for controversy his whole career. I mean he not
his fault, but of course even just getting picked into
the Australian team having never played you know, Sheffield Shield cricket,
it's sort of he's sort of always either accidentally or
deliberately sort of antagonized purists, you know, punch Joe Root.
(38:29):
He you know, just he's just been in the I
guess even just the way that he's played the game
is trying to hit you slug balls for six. You know,
Murphy's talked about he talks about David Water as the
junk yard dog. You know that that he bite your
leg off. I give him half a chance, all those
sorts of things. Just an abrasive character that's just a
(38:50):
magnet for controversy.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeahs, when Kauhaja says something really interesting about that recently
and I and I guess as a caveat those two
have played cricket with and against each other since they
were knee hired to a Grasshopper. They playing the same
junior rep teams, so there were maybe even the same
junior club team, so they're obviously close, but it was
(39:15):
Minkwija said that he felt that Warner was manipulated into
being someone he wasn't. That he was basically given the
task of being the on field aggressor the asshole, the
guy that pushed the boundary with Nathan Lyons, was the
guy that head butted right up to the to the line.
He said that when certain elements were removed from that
(39:38):
team and it was post Cape Town essentially, he said
that when David Warner came back after Cape Down, that
is the real David Warner. He was finally allowed to
be himself, and it was a far different character, riendly,
a face, I guess, the reverend. Yeah, yeah, so I mean,
(39:59):
probably the true guys somewhere between those two poles. But yeah,
there might be something in that, you know, And I've
always got the feeling that David Warner might be quite
easily manipulated.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I was just going to say he's been treated like
he's the manipulator and maybe he is an element of
being manipulated. Yeah, interesting one, All.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Right, cool, I've got one more thing, actually, I think
I asked the question following on from Bruce Paradoo who
died in Hamilton, who was the former Trinidaddian cricketer who
died in christ Church in twenty thirteen. The answer, of
course was Simpson Clermonte Dillon, who has been known as
(40:44):
Sammy Gillon, who wicket kept in New Zealand's first Test
win against the West Indies and in fact took the
stumping to win the Test, having previously represented that Caribbean conglomerate.
He also played at Chattam Cup Final in nineteen fifty four.
I did not realize this till recently though. His Western
AFC side lost in the final to Ony Hunger. And
apparently he was a man who loved a chat. Did
(41:07):
semi do it?
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I'll tell you another amazing fact. His grandson is Logan
van Beek. How good? Yes, sational, sensational, Yeah, amazing. The
DNA of cricketers is real, isn't it. It's a real thing.
It is that talent is transferred for sure. Yeah, magnificent,
magnificent player. Hey, speaking of magnificent, this is the complete opposite.
(41:29):
It's time for Paul Ford's cricket Violence Corner. Paul Ford's
cricket Violence Corner got two this week DC, just very quickly.
Of course, our very owned Tim Soudy has been involved
in some violence and been handed an official reprimand after
lashing out at a hand sanitizing dispenser. This was at
the Brian Lara Cricket Academy. I think we can all
(41:50):
I empathize with Tim for this, but he did result
in a Level one breach of the ICC Code of Conduct,
which relates to the abuse of cricket equips or clothing,
all ground equipment or fixtures or fittings during an international match.
He has a unblemished disciplinary record now with one little
(42:11):
black mark on it. The second one is also World
Cup related. The world of Pakistan cricket has been rocked
by a controversial incident involving fast Bola Harris Ralph. This
has gone viral in the subcontinent outside his team hotel
during the T twenty World Cup in the USA following
Pakistan's disappointing exit he's caught on video. He looks visibly
upset and it confronts a group of fans over their
(42:33):
alleged disrespectful remarks. Despite efforts from bystanders, including his wife,
who's in full regalia and trying to intervene, he expresses
his frustration quite openly, I think is probably the best
way of saying it. And there was a I guess
he sparked a diplomatic incidents as well by assuming that
some of the fans were One of the fans I
think was Indian. The fan has confirmed that he's actually
(42:56):
Pakistani and was just having a crack and his own
player for having a bit of a shit tourna. So yeah,
but rough.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
But you did say that if you bring my family
into it, I will go at yeah, something to those
to that effect. And how very New Zealand, isn't it
that the violence involves an anti bacterial sanitizer. Yeah, we
like to keep our violence very clean, very very very
clean violence.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Well, I'm glad I think you said a challenge of
Cricket Violet's corner having to go around the world, and
it's good that New Zealand's finally done something that we
can but yeah, whether it qualifies as violence, you.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Know now that fair play to you. That's well done.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, Dylan, I think that's just about us. Thanks everyone
for tuning in, dialing down, downloading, whatever you're doing riding
home from work punching walls. Yes, as Dylan said, you're
going to need to furtle your week watching other teams
play out the Super Eights. Hopefully Afghanistan continue to wreak
have it throughout this tournament and we can look back
and go well, at least we lost to them and
they were really damn good. I mean, this could be
(43:56):
an Afghanistan West Indies final in this World Cup. We'll
be back next week. In the meantime, if you've got
anything to get off your chest, send us a short
dire tribe to b YC at Base Brigade dot co,
dot z, Kakite and Kirkaha
Welcome to the BAC podcast, coming here from the Export
Beer Garden studio in the midst of another I think
gloom laden and fascinating week in recent New Zealand cricket history.
This week we reflect on what the announcement from New
Zealand Cricket about Steady the Ship's future plans. We grind
some gears about the warm down matches against the Uganda
Cricket Cranes and the Papa New Guinea Baron Mundy's and
(00:29):
Davey Dumdum provides more incontrovertible evidence that he's a massive punisher.
I'm Paul Ford, godfather of the Big Brigade, and I'm
joined by a master of the New Zealand Cricket scoop
this week, Dylan Pleaver Our Plenty Dente of the substack
sports newsletter The Bounce DC. How are your optimism levels
this week? Mate?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Flatlining? It's been an interesting week actually, particularly for myself.
As you mentioned, I was lucky enough to get a
tip that King Williams and was about to take up
the option well turned down the option of a central
contract in favor of a casual pain contract. I've sort
(01:09):
of chicily put it in here that he's literally torn
up his contract and thrown it in the face of
New Zealand CEO and friend of the BYC Scott Weenink
Will New Zealand Cricket Players Association CAPO di Caappily. Heath
Mills laughs maniacally from his bolt hole in the Hanua Rangers,
(01:31):
which is a he.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Does have a he does have a bit of a
Marlin Brando feel about him sometimes, Heath Mills, and I
mean that in a loving and respectful way.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes, yeah, So it is interesting. And look I break
the story that he is going to take up a
casual contract. There is all sorts of mechanics around it
that make this reasonably unique. The fact that New Zealand
doesn't have international cricket, doesn't have tests scheduled for that
generary win. He's almost certainly got an option to go
(02:02):
and play in South Africa. And look, if you take
it at face value, he is committing it seems, at
least for the medium to long term to New Zealand cricket.
So I guess I write the news story. So I'm
going to throw the analysis to you, Paul, and then
what does it all mean?
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean it was I
guess there was sort of some bread crumbs that went
there after the pupa New Guinea game where he got
asked about what he was going to do and what
were his plans after the early exit, and his words were,
I don't know, which is always that's the kind of
thing that a veteran journalist such as yourself may may
have clocked. He did say, there's a bit of time
(02:44):
between now and the twenty twenty six World Cup India
and Sri Lanka, so it's about regrouping. We've got red
ball cricket over the next year, so it's back into
some other international formats and we'll see where things land. Well,
that's hardly kind of a full level commitment. I think
it did sort of indicate that he was trying to
work out where to next, and I guess part of
that might have been whether he was going to step
away entirely from international cricket, maybe do a home summer
(03:06):
something like that. Yeah, look, sorry, I was just going
to say the other thing as well, of because then
I'd see some comments from Michael absolutely putting the boot
into Kam Willimson a better strike great in the t
twenty world cut, So good on Michael Vaughan for that,
I guess. But yeah, look, I guess with the president
of Trent bolt back in twenty twenty two, it's just
no surprise that some of these guys that are kind
(03:27):
of living in the double worlds of being our best
players and also our most desirable players for TEA twenty
franchises and coming I guess the triple world also being
wanted by the franchises, but also coming to the end
of their careers and just trying to work out how
to have a foot in both camps. It's hard to
(03:48):
sort of deny them that I think that I think
it was Andrew Gordy maybe on Newshubs it's something like
get over it and get used to it. And I
think the alternate reality here is that we don't have
Kine and so I do think that generally New Zealand
cricket here have done a good job. And I think
Scott when taking him at face early and no reason
not to, you know, the basically said world cricket's changing,
(04:10):
it's changing dramatically and we need to continue to be
dynamic with our contracting situation. In other words, A bit
like how we take on Test cricket shit sorry, international
cricket matches. We just kind of have to take what
we're given a little bit in this front. You know,
we don't have the power. New Zealand Cricket does not
have the power. Sure, I mean they could say, cool, well,
if you're going to go and do that, Kane, we're
(04:30):
not going to have you play for us at all. Yes,
that's an option. I don't think that's better. And it's
a pretty funky summer with certainly bugger all crickets at
Bugger all Test cricket and zero Test cricket I think
in January, and you know, it's hard to deny Kane
an opportunity like that. Particularly. I don't know if you
had had a quick look at the numbers DC, but
(04:52):
those salaries in that South African T twenty or the
SA twenty league just just ballpark salaries. Harry Brook he
was on and eighty grand, Jimmy Nish two hundred and
ninety grand, Liam Livingston seven hundred and thirty seven grand,
and Tristan Stubbs the highest paid player eight hundred thousand dollars.
So you know, literally Kan Limson could go over there
and get paid more than when he gets paid to
(05:13):
my New Zealand Cricket. It's it's a it's a it's
just the reality that our guys, as they come to
the end of their careers are going to be considering
their options.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, and I look at a little bit of correspondent
saying this was a silly move by Kane because he's
not good enough to play IPL anymore. He's not that
attractive to IPL, and that look that might actually be true.
The IPL cricket may have moved past Kane and as
his particular style of playing, but he's still hellishly attractive.
I would imagine two franchise leagues like the SA twenty,
(05:44):
like the IL T twenty in the UAE, because he's
a name, he's a great bloke that brings no baggage
with him, and he's almost effectively like a player coach
within some of those setups. It's scoop for the young guys.
So I don't think he's I would push back on
the notion that the T twenty game has moved past them.
(06:05):
I think maybe the IPL has and maybe his shortcomings
have been exposed a little bit. Even T twenty eyes
but there's still certainly plenty of opportunities for him to
cash in that respect here right back in the country
this morning as it happened, and did a stand up
media at Aukland Airport and here's what he had to say.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I think everybody has a different situation and they're trying
to assess what it is for them and for me
and my family and at the stage my career and
the calendar that we have coming up, it's something exciting
and something to look forward to and something a little
bit different without really interfering with the international schedule. So
(06:51):
although it's turning down I suppose a central contract, it's
really no different in terms of the playing schedule and
representing New Zealand. I mean, I want to play as
long as I can. I love playing for New Zealand.
I've really really enjoyed my time captaining and it's been
(07:12):
a privilege and an honor to do that for a
number of years. And I'm excited with what's next for
the team in terms of their leadership as well, and
I'm looking forward to being a part of that. In
terms of a time frame, it's difficult to say I
want to keep being keep doing as well as they
can keep trying to improve and play as long as
they can.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, look, I think that's probably what you'd expect, came
will him to say, and he came and listened to say.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And maybe once he's torn us, maybe once he once
he's actually torn his contract up, he might. Do you
think he might start sort of swinging from the rafters
become an incredibly amazing media or if you're just teeing
off on people left front and center and taking no prisoners,
or do you think he's going to just keep sort
of kneting and just keeping everything out DC.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I think he still likes to play a fairly straight
back when the opportunity present itself. And look, I would
say that, look, this may be a positive in this
particular case as regards Kane Williamson's immediate future with the
black Caps. And we all I mean purists, we're purists.
We want to see him played Test cricket for as
long as possible. We want to see him smash some
(08:15):
of those batting records. Well he's actually already smashed all
the New Zealand betting records. We want to put them
into areas that perhaps no one is going to get
to in our lifetime so when we're old and gray,
we can tell our grandkids about the magnificence of Kane Williamson.
But I do think that it's gilding the lily slightly
to not acknowledge that this, the widest symptoms of this
(08:42):
are troubling for New Zealand cricket and that the Super Smash,
which is our franchise T twenty League, just holds no
appeal for our best players. Maybe I'm being a little
bit hash there about it, not by much.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I think you are, And I think where it's getting
to as well, is that not only is it why
is it not appealing? It's because the best players aren't
playing because they are in hot demand in South Africa,
in the UAE and Pakistan and the new American League
that's going to spark up, which is going to clash
pretty much directly, and then you've got the Big Bash
pretty much either just before just after. I've got that
(09:21):
schedule in my brain. I know they've compacted it a
bit to sort of get out of the way of
other tournaments and so forth. But yeah, it's yeah, it does.
I guess reiterate what a backwater the Super Smash really
is from an international cricketer's point of view.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, but it also the Super Smash does make up
at quite a significant portion of what New Zealand Cricket
sells to the local broadcasters. If your TV and z
now or your Sky TV and you're looking to negotiate
the next deal with New Zealand Cricket, they're not really
in a position of strength when they get around that
table and say, hey, we've got this great T twenty
(09:56):
product for you that you can put on prime time
in those summer months where people are sitting around having
beers with their mates. They are going to push back
on that.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Now, that's right, and you know, just to remind people,
so currently, if you're a player with a central contract
with New Zealand Cricket, you have to commit to obviously
playing the international matches pretty much, and you have to
commit to being available for the Super Smash competition. That's
kind of those are the two main criteria around availability.
And yes, you're right, if you're going to have players
(10:28):
kind of we're going to have that as a rule
with a couple of asterisks, and those asterisks are your
most important players. Yeah, look, I think yeah, that's right.
One thing I would say is I have absolutely no
doubt that when Williamson talks about wanting to play for
New Zealand and his I guess his patriotic calling and
(10:49):
how much he loves playing for the team, that does
ring true with him. You know, he could one hundred
percent have been pulling up stumps here or saying, hey,
I'm going to play the Test matches against England and
I'm going to go into Christmas and I'm going to
put my feet up and I'm just going to travel
the world with my little kids and my English wife
and kind of you know, never play for New Zealand again,
and I don't think anyone would be wouldn't be sad,
(11:11):
but you'd go, you know what, he's done a pretty
bloody good shift. But yeah, interesting, very very interesting times
for cricket in New Zealand and New Zealand cricket for sure.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, hey, if this is the last time came Williams
and ever captains this country, and it's looking more and
more likely, it's a non negotiable. You cannot kept in
your country if you're not on a central contract. You know,
what's his legacy, what's the kind of what's his premature
that he leaves on New Zealand cricket as a skipper.
And before you say that, I'm just going to run
through a few facts and figures for you. And tests
(11:45):
he kept him forty times for twenty two wins as
a veteran as a captain, the average fifty seven point
four to three, which is higher significantly higher than his
overall average eleven hundreds. As a captain, he kept him
the second most tests after flem and had the second
best winning percentage of those who are captained at least
ten tests, behind the one and only Tim Salvey who's
(12:08):
captained exactly ten tests. ODI Eyes he kept in ninety
one times for forty six wins. He averaged fifty one
point three five as a batting captain and ODI eyes,
which again is significantly higher than his overall average seven hundred,
second most ODI Eyes captain behind Flemm. Somewhat surprisingly, this
actually six best winning percentage of a captain with those
(12:30):
who are at least ten games skippered behind Tom Lathan,
Brenda McCallum, Daniel Vittori, which was surprised about actually Jeff
Howth and John Wright, which was even more surprised about
T twenty is captain seventy five times fifty percent plus
winning record just over fifty percent. I think most T
twenty eyes captained obviously averaged thirty three point six moore
(12:52):
with the bat with sixteen fifties only a tiny bit
higher average with the bat as a captain. Those are
the raw numbers, but more generally, more holistically, how do
you view him as captain across those formats?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Well, I guess that's the thing. Is he going to
go down in time as probably our greatest when you
look at some of the results that the team has
gained with him, either as a player or as a
captain across all formats. He has been one of those
constant presences over the last fifteen twenty years. Whatever you
just said, so an extraordinary batsman, a fantastic captain across
(13:31):
all formats, and I guess a leader of men in
a very kind of came Williamson way, just that classic
way that we've talked about before. New Zealanders love it. Sure,
Brendan McCullum was did it in a different way. But
Kaine Williamson as your stoic follow me kind of a
guy I've got this, I never panic acknowledge you very
(13:51):
respectful of the opposition, all of those sorts of things.
You know, I think he's going to be looked back
upon it. People are going to get well, he's literally
already talked about us the one of the all time greats,
potentially our greatest cricketer of all time. Even anytime you're
being mentioned in the same breath as Sir Richard Hadley,
you know, you're starting to be in quite a pantheon
of New Zealand cricket. And I think, you know, I
(14:14):
guess I've kind of touched on it there, but I
think that the way that he's played the game, you know,
I think the guys that have played with him, I
think he's managed to keep the team together potentially, you know,
after Brendan McCullum, you could have seen things splinter and fragment,
but the fact that Kane was there and we call
him steady the ship, and you know, it's steadying that
ship of the black Cats. In this sense, he's the
(14:34):
kind of person that players stay around to play with
a because he'll probably help you win the games. But
he's obviously just one of those guys that people get
out onto the field for and play for. He brings
them together not Yeah, so I think that that piece
around the way that he's played the game, and the
other thing is as well. And you know, I don't
get heaps of stock on this, but you do get
the sense that he's the kind of person that gets
(14:56):
on with basically every single player in international cricket, which
is quite extraordin.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, I find it almost I find it quite tricky
to describe his legacy as a skipper a skipper because
following the black Caps during the Brendan McCallum Captaincy era,
it was almost like a visceral experience, not so much
with Cain Williamson, but it was kind of better. And
(15:23):
I'm not quite sure why. I really struggled to articulate
why I enjoyed watching the black Caps under Kane Williamson,
possibly more than I did it under Brenda McCallum. Yet
Brendan mcallum, it was just such a seat of the
pants ride. It was bastic, Yeah, And it was all
those cliches like tumbling into advertizing hoardings to save a
(15:44):
meaningless one in this kind of thing, and it was
great fun. But it was almost like he set them
up and then came Williamson. Just it was this ultra
smooth transition. Maybe we drifted back into more percentage style
of cricket. Not I wouldn't go so far as to
say we went back to the Daniel Vittori very kind
(16:05):
of statistical, data heavy percentage style of cricket. But there
was something that was there was a bit of a
sparkle missing, and yet the way they went about it
was just so pristine that I thoroughly enjoyed it. I
followed them around for a summer as a reporter while
I was still at the Herald. It was the summer
(16:26):
they qualified for the World Test Championship. Unfortunately I didn't
get to go to Southampton and watch the crown and glory,
but I covered all those tests where they qualified and
it was the most fun I've had covering cricket. And
yet I'm not quite sure why, and I've struggled to
articulate it, and that will always be my I guess
(16:48):
as paradox I have with Caan Williamson, but I think
he is New Zealand's greatest cricketer. And if you want
to argue, the toss was Sir Richard Hadley, I'm happy.
I'm happy for you to do that because Paddles was
a legendary and groundbreaking and barrier breaking in terms of
giving New Zealand cricket that respectability that never had. I
(17:10):
just think came on Us has probably done more for
the game overall. But yeah, it's it's sad, but I'm
glad we've got them as a player in a world
class batter. But it sounds like another three to four years.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll take every little piece of that
hairy little man from Totalinger that we can get over
the next few years. Hey, we're going to take a
quick break the see and then we'll come back and
we'll go into the entrails of the World T twenty
campaign and New Zealand's warm down games. Welcome back to
the BYC and DC. I think you've described it as
(17:49):
New Zealand peaking perfectly to thrash Uganda and Papa New Guinea,
giving those a cricketing superpowers a jolly good hiding and
teaching those basards to lesson. Is that your sort of
take on things?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, yeah, I thought they'd give They plan this campaign perfectly,
really didn't they They knew they were underdone getting the air,
but it didn't bother them one little bit because by
the time they got to it was Uganda first, wasn't it.
They were ready to put them to the sword, dismissing
Uganda for forty and then chasing it down with their
loss of just one wicket in five point two overs.
(18:25):
They followed that up again by inserting Papua New Guinea
and dismissing them for seventy eight and then chasing it
down with the loss of three wickets. Actually, and it
took them a wee while twelve point two overs to
win by seven wickets. We had a man on the
ground over there actually pulled. Do you want to read
what he has to say about this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, we did, We did. Yeah, it's an interesting little
piece of correspondence. Well, that all went about as well
as expected. But I have to get this off my chest.
What a dick move by caning to bowl first last night.
He could have at least let the guy smash two
hundred against the minnows and give the new Deellan and
who traveled. There's something to cheer about. I love Cane,
but it was like they just wanted to get home.
Early after the game, the Augaendon players came over and
(19:07):
acknowledged their fans who traveled halfway around the world from
Africa to support them. We got away from Lovely Trinity anyway,
I'm off the Lucia now for the West Indies versus
Afghanistan game, which I thought would decide our place in
the quarters. I'm a West Indies fan now looking forward
to the next podcast. It's from Mark. Cheers Mark and
safe travels. Mate tough over there.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And we also received this from Matt. He said, Hey, guys,
is watching our guys sit on the sideline on the
IPL and then playing poorly when they do play get
kind of humiliating for Black Cat fans. It was okay,
then we would perform well on tests and World Caps.
I prove everyone wrong. Do these guys think they're not
preparing well and getting thrashed at the World Cup will
(19:48):
earn them lucrative T twenty contracts first really negative message
in a long time from Matt, So there is a
little bit of angst. Yeah, after all Matt described came
Dick move. Perhaps he's one that's not as upseid as
a number of people are. That he's tuning down the
(20:08):
Captain sy look. I don't know if we need to
scavenger around in the intrails of that campaign much more
than you already had, other than say it did not
go well. Paul.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, I think that's fair. Maybe I did hypothesize that
perhaps the players were a bit worried about cricket violence
corner being committed by those New Zealand fans who traveled
ten thousand miles to be at that game. And yeah,
I do wonder if the players just wanted to get
the hell out of there. I'm not really defending it,
more of an explanation really. I guess the most interesting
(20:42):
things about that game were, and I think Cole Mill
said this actually on the Agenda podcast, it's a weird
T twenty game when the thing that you're talking about
the most of twenty four dot palls, which is of
course what Luckie Ferguson brought to the party, alongside the
very very valuable wickets of course of Vala, Amini and Soper.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
So's so fair. I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I guess the other thing that caught my eye thin
Allen got a couple. I think it gets again a
bit failed again against a Papa New Guinea. He has
had a tough tough time and yeah, look nice soy
to finally get a game. That's the other thing that
caught my eye. He would have had a very frustrating
couple of weeks over there.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, we should probably talk about Lucky a little bit actually,
because and just to go to max point one more time,
I think we would be more patronizing if you win
the tis on clearly a bowl first wicket and then
just have a bat for ships and giggles. I don't
think cricket quite works like that. So I will defend
Kane and this decision to bowl first, although if I
(21:47):
was at the ground and a travel that far, I
would have also been mortified, So I think you can
both be right on this occasion.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
We're probably also slightly surprised that New Zealand did actually
read the conditions correctly in the substance and managed to
get the job done after making the right decision.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, but Lucky for over his four maidens three for
naught is extraordinary, and he backs it up also with
the news that he is to decline his national contract.
He won't be given the kind of sweetheart deal Kane
is getting and I think there's fine. I think that's
fair enough. I think Lucky probably understands it's fair enough. Yeah,
(22:24):
thoughts on Lockey's decision, and I guess his future because
he is still equality bowler to twenty high level.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I was just trying to work that out this then
I'm sure you can clarify this for me. So Lockie
Ferguson has declined a central contract, which means that does
that mean that he is no longer available for New
Zealand for white ball games or is he running a
sort of a Trent Bolt scenario where he can kind
of or a Jimmy Nishan type scenario where he's freelancing
and available to play and will be picked. So he's
(22:53):
available to play and can be picked. I guess that's
my question.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, he can still be picked. But the difference, I
guess between getting right into the weeds of contracts here.
But I guess the difference is if you're on a
central contract, you get a retainer for the year and
then you get your match fees on top of that.
Kaine has moved onto a casual contract, so when he
is available for New Zealand, when he's in camp with
New Zealand, he will be paid a retainer for that
(23:17):
time as well as his match fees. Lucky Ferguson and
I believe in a mill might be another one who
turns down a central contract when they play for New
Zealand they are playing for match FEESH.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Gotcha, that's a great clarification. I guess the other point
that has been made and maybe applied inconsistently or on
a needs must basis, but is that you would expect
that centrally contracted players will be preferred primarily ahead of
casual players and uncontracted players. So that would you know,
Lockeye's move would would probably be good news if you
(23:50):
want to put it that way, for the likes of
will I Rourke. Ben says, those guys that are kind
of fringe selections at the moment and when all the
big dogs are back, they're not quite breaking that that
that to eleven.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, So those guys that are hovering around sort of
twenty one to twenty five on the ranking list that
just miss out on the central contracts and they would
then be bumped down to the top domestic contracts which
really only contract for six months and I don't know
who is around that twenty one to twenty five mark
that you are probably talking about your O'Rourke's And no,
(24:23):
actually Orock will be well up the list now because
he's shun so.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
It's got ever been a Nathan Smith or something like that, Nathan.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Smith as sears, maybe even a Henry Nichols who's really
only considered for ODI and tests and he's been dropped
from the test team. He's probably hovering around that twenty
twenty one level now, So that those sort of guys
might be having it a couple more decide to hand
in their contracts and because we shouldn't make an idea
(24:51):
that they still are desirable, I think for the bulk
of cricketers in New Zealand, as central contractor is very desirable.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's yeah, well that's it's a six fo sum, isn't it.
So you know, if you're going to turn down that contract,
you've either got to be backing yourself that you're going
to be doing well in a profession as a professional
cricketer in other parts of the world, or you've got
a really good day job with heaps of annual le
So yeah, good luck with either of those two things
that's are pretty both are pretty niche arrangements. I guess
the other thing that we might see in terms of
those contract lists is we might get a little taste
(25:21):
of how the selectors are seeing New Zealand's needs for
the future of T twenty. And if you've got any
thoughts on the types of things that you'd like to
see in terms of I guess reconfiguring the approach that
the black Caps are taking two T twenty, given it's
proven reasonably ineffective apart from against a couple of smaller nations.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I've noted three things that I'd like to see.
I'd like to see more power up and down the order,
but particularly up the order. We can't just throw the
entire burden under Finellen, who has discussed ad nauseam. We're
still not quite sure if he is going to be
able to deliver consistently enough add international level to be
the player we need him to be the top. So
(26:02):
more power up and down the order. I think We've
got a great white bull bowler in mitchell Santina, but
I'd like to see faster, flatter spinners I think we've
got and I think I might have mentioned this last week.
If I didn't, I mentioned in my newshetter. I think
we've got very good, very clever, good wicket spinners who
(26:24):
can out fox batners from time to time. But I
think when the conditions suit spin bowlers, we need guys
like Judasia and Go from the Western is Akila Hussein
who just rip it and just bolt good balls fast
at bulls that are hard to score. So I'd like
to see that. And finally, as I've made a note here,
I would like to see a hard assed, virulently rednecked,
(26:46):
deeply unpleasant Australian fielding coach who is just going to
get those boys and give them no leeway whatsoever. He
is going to be on them. They're going to hate
him and hate every minute of working with him. That
they're going to restore New Zealand's pride in the field.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, brilliant, Okay, I wonder I wonder who's available? It
sounds are you advocating for Matthew Hayden to join the
New Zealand cricket team. Are there a few exceptions to
your veto as part of your bat plan?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
See what's beyond deeply unpleasant? You can't go beyond that.
So I'm thinking more more in terms of like your
stumper ricks and kind of guys. Actually the skit love
for you. He was quite he was quite a good
BLOKEP See, well we'll talk about it.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Surely there's a guy called David Warner that's going to
have a going to be looking around for offshore jobs.
I'm sure he'd be real keen to come and help
the black Cats.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah. Yeah, what about yourself? If you identified anything that
you'd like to see more of or see introduced into
the black Caps T twenty environment.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I mean, I guess I'm just aligning with a couple
of those points that you make. You know, I think
we talked about it last week, but that you know,
it's the writing instructions that go to finale. And if
you're going to have him, if we're going to have
we're going to make the most of those thirty six
balls in the power play, then we're going to have
to absolutely redline that top order. So yes, you know,
you talk about power up and down the order, and
I think maybe the power is there, it's just like
let's absolutely commit to using it. That's the way T
(28:10):
twenty crickets going and we are falling behind when we're
just trying to sort of knock it around and mow
down any total really really late bottles are getting smarter,
and I think we're missing some opportunities at the top.
So completely agree with you there. And yes, how good
would it be if we could get Rushi Khan to
immigrate to New Zealand? You know, given the current state
of the international deploymacy between the two countries, possibly unlikely,
(28:31):
but yeah, we need where do we get a mystery
spinner from in Hamilton, Palmerston North, you know, Lincoln or
your beloved, your Plymouth, you know, I'm not sure that
they exist. There's a couple of guys, Addie a shock,
I guess, is floating around. Yeah. Look, I think those
(28:51):
getting getting our guys overseas and actually playing in some
of these international T twenty comps feel super super important because,
as you say, that's those are the types of spinners
that are going absolute gamebusters. If the West Indies can
do it, I suspect that we can as well. But Gi,
it's going to take some big changes in our pictures
and the way that we're bringing players through and getting
some of those new Zealand a guys over to weird
(29:12):
places to do weird things.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
One other thing I thought of, we're probably in the
market for a left arm swing bowler now as well.
I know. I know Jason Hoyt was with us now
he might be advocating for Ben Lister, although he went
a bit off them last summer to me, which was
a bit rough. It was like it's like he felt
spurned by him when he didn't immediately start taking five
wicket bags for the New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Very fickle, very thick, Jason, very fickle. Hey, I don't
know if you've caught any of the South Africa versus
the United States match this morning, DC. It's it's Super
eight time because New Zealand not there. It does mean
I only watched the replays. But Servica beating the United
States by eighteen runs in the first Super eight game
at Antiga, I think sound yep.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
South Africa racking up on hindundred and ninety four for
four and I had a chicken a little bit on.
I Quentin Takock to come right in this game and
he did absolutely blazed away. I think he got seventy
four and I'm sure the South Africans would have absolutely
loved being on an actual cricket ground that didn't have
the field, the sand spray painted green to look like grass,
(30:21):
and a pitch that seemed to be pretty pretty pretty
sweet to bat on. They walloped at one hundred and
ninety four for four. To be fair, the United States
one seventy six for six, a pretty decent run chase
with some absolute fireworks from Andreas, the South African born
(30:42):
well expat, I guess, but eighty not out extraordinary, not
from him.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah it was USA if you been really handy at
this World Cup, and obviously they have any of the
big greatest SA conditions either. But yeah, I've been quite
impressed with them, and I hope it's made a little
dent over there. The guy de Travka keep I'm forgetting
(31:06):
how to say his name properly. The Indian Petrovoka Travalka. Yeah,
the Indian left Armor Silicon Valley executive. He bowled really
well again, So yeah, fair play to them. At the
moment I was just going.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
To say, you want to speak about hard art, virulently
red neck, deeply unpleasant Australian coaches. They've got Stuart law
in there and he did soften a little bit this week.
He broke because I think he's been flogging them to
death in the field and all that sort of thing.
And he was asked where many of his players had
to go back to their bosses and ask for extendedly
but he said yes, yes, quite a few of them
actually did. They only sort of booked out to the
(31:45):
group matches. So yeah, I think there's a few of
them becoming national heroes. I'm sure the bosses have signed
those off wholeheartedly. But just an interesting little sideline there
from from Stuart Law as we're speaking at the moment. Actually,
it's obviously is pointless giving you a match report to
a game that's halfway through, well not even halfway through,
and will be finished by the time you're listening to this.
(32:06):
But I can tell the West Indies are betting first
against England at Saint Lucia and after fourteen point two
overs are one hundred and twenty five for one with.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Oran and Powell going great guns and Powell has just
hit two six is in a row off Livingston, so
it's now one hundred and thirty one for one and
that is a Group two match being played. At Saint Lucia. Tonight,
well overnight we have Indiana versus Afghanistan. It's a Group
(32:38):
one match. The Superwates are split into two groups. That's
in Barbados. Tomorrow lunch time we have Australia Bangladesh Group
one from Antigua and then Saturday two thirty am England
South Africa Group two from Saint Lucia. The Saturday lunchtime
game is West Indies USA Barbadoso thirty in the morning
(33:01):
Bangladesh be India at a Antigua and then Sunday lunchtime
game is Afghanistan for Australia and that kind of takes
you through the weekend a lot of cricket. It's just
even reading that out, it feels sad to read that
out without New Zealand there. New Zealand should be there
ahead of your likes. If you're usas your Bangladesh is
(33:22):
your Afghanistans, well they shouldn't because they didn't qualify. But
you know, it's it's it's doesn't feel right that those
teams are.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's a new Lit cricket podcast. It doesn't. But I
can tell you that the Afghani cricket podcasts are absolutely
rubbing their hands with glee, and all of the American
cricket podcasts are very very excited, and the Bangladeshi ones
as well. I think those three teams are probably all
quite surprised to be there and having the well they're
going to rather if they're going to run a full
Netherlands vibe and just be extremely happy to be there
and just go absolutely nuts and have a hell of
(33:56):
a time to look like the Americans were like, well,
we're not going to just knock it around and get it,
you know, and just sort of see how we go.
We're going to absolutely go for it and try and
make some magic happen. We're in the bonus round. I
do really hope that England get up and do something
interesting it gets the sorry. I hope that the West
Indies negate England's attempts to ruin their home tournament. That
(34:17):
would be good on today's game, and God wouldn't be
lovely to sit down slightly hangover on Sunday after the
Super Rugby and the Warriors on Saturday night and watch
Afghanistan do something filthy to the Australians.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, we'll be good. Hey, We're going to take a
short break now and then come back with some from
the David Warner files and a bit of violence.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Welcome back to the BYC. You're with Paul Fordham, Dylan
Cleaver talking absolute rubbish about King Williamson, the Black Caps,
delving into the intrails of the T twenty World Cup
and now DC you've got a little bit of news
from our great free to the podcast, David Dumdam David Warner.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Let's see of the Super eight opener against Bangladesh. He
was speaking to NewsCorp and to the Cricket dot com
Dot Au website and Antigua and he said, since twenty eighteen,
I've probably been the only one that's ever copped a
lot of flak. And he's course talking about the the.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Use of sandpaper at Capetown.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
All tampering scandal of Cape Town and the aftermath of
Vans and to which Michael Clark said on a ESPN
Cricken Foe show that he's involved in that he's a
panelist on, he said, Davey has certainly copped it, There's
no doubt about it. I just think the timing is
probably not right. I think it probably would have been
(35:45):
suited for the end of a World Cup rather than
the middle of it, because there's probably other players in
the team who would prefer this not to be spoken
about right now. But there's parts of what he said
that are correct, and I'm not actually sure that there's
not many parts to it. For a start, he's basically
you just said, he's the only one that's been really
(36:05):
penalized for the bull temporary scandal, and I think Kivin
Bancroft will quite like a word given he hasn't played
a test since.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I do seem to remember seeing a few photos of
Steve Smith crying as well. I think it's another signal
of David Warner's self obsession. I think that the world does.
He does seem to review the world, as you know,
with him at the center of it. So I'm trying
to get to and I think, yeah, it's an interesting one.
I think there is a little bit of an undercurrent
in there, though, which is that you know he's kind
(36:37):
of I think there's two things. He's under a lifetime
leadership band. So you know, you do your crime and
do your time, well not in this case, you do
the time and then you just keep doing the time,
and that you can never kind of escape that that.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Punishment, and he did ask for that to be reviewed
and it was rejected, wasn't it Yep?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yep? And his wife very helpfully waited in on that battle.
And you know, you know, I think fair enough, to
be honest with you, I think that's a pretty reasonable
thing to dig into from a just a natural justice
point of view. But anyway, that's that's done and dusted.
I think the other thing that's in his comments is
that it's kind of you know, he is hinting that
(37:14):
other people involved around this were protector that that's an
interesting little thing there, and he himself, I think the
follow on quote from the piece that you mentioned was
that he said, I've taken a lot of pressure off
a lot of guys as well, and I think understandably
I've been the person to be able to absorb that.
But one can only absorb so much. Yeah, there's some
(37:35):
interesting dynamics in that team, I imagine around that incident
still ongoing.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Well, there has always been this feeling that it's curious
that the three people penalized for the ball tampering are
all batters who didn't directly stand to gain from the
ball tampering and that the bowling attack on that day
have got away scott free. That is I mean it
(38:00):
probably hasn't been written, but that is the unspoken septics
of that, isn't it. But you know totally and you.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Know over those when we talked about it before. But
the other thing is that one hasn't been an absolutely
magnet for controversy his whole career. I mean he not
his fault, but of course even just getting picked into
the Australian team having never played you know, Sheffield Shield cricket,
it's sort of he's sort of always either accidentally or
deliberately sort of antagonized purists, you know, punch Joe Root.
(38:29):
He you know, just he's just been in the I
guess even just the way that he's played the game
is trying to hit you slug balls for six. You know,
Murphy's talked about he talks about David Water as the
junk yard dog. You know that that he bite your
leg off. I give him half a chance, all those
sorts of things. Just an abrasive character that's just a
(38:50):
magnet for controversy.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeahs, when Kauhaja says something really interesting about that recently
and I and I guess as a caveat those two
have played cricket with and against each other since they
were knee hired to a Grasshopper. They playing the same
junior rep teams, so there were maybe even the same
junior club team, so they're obviously close, but it was
(39:15):
Minkwija said that he felt that Warner was manipulated into
being someone he wasn't. That he was basically given the
task of being the on field aggressor the asshole, the
guy that pushed the boundary with Nathan Lyons, was the
guy that head butted right up to the to the line.
He said that when certain elements were removed from that
(39:38):
team and it was post Cape Town essentially, he said
that when David Warner came back after Cape Down, that
is the real David Warner. He was finally allowed to
be himself, and it was a far different character, riendly,
a face, I guess, the reverend. Yeah, yeah, so I mean,
(39:59):
probably the true guys somewhere between those two poles. But yeah,
there might be something in that, you know, And I've
always got the feeling that David Warner might be quite
easily manipulated.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I was just going to say he's been treated like
he's the manipulator and maybe he is an element of
being manipulated. Yeah, interesting one, All.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Right, cool, I've got one more thing, actually, I think
I asked the question following on from Bruce Paradoo who
died in Hamilton, who was the former Trinidaddian cricketer who
died in christ Church in twenty thirteen. The answer, of
course was Simpson Clermonte Dillon, who has been known as
(40:44):
Sammy Gillon, who wicket kept in New Zealand's first Test
win against the West Indies and in fact took the
stumping to win the Test, having previously represented that Caribbean conglomerate.
He also played at Chattam Cup Final in nineteen fifty four.
I did not realize this till recently though. His Western
AFC side lost in the final to Ony Hunger. And
apparently he was a man who loved a chat. Did
(41:07):
semi do it?
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I'll tell you another amazing fact. His grandson is Logan
van Beek. How good? Yes, sational, sensational, Yeah, amazing. The
DNA of cricketers is real, isn't it. It's a real thing.
It is that talent is transferred for sure. Yeah, magnificent,
magnificent player. Hey, speaking of magnificent, this is the complete opposite.
(41:29):
It's time for Paul Ford's cricket Violence Corner. Paul Ford's
cricket Violence Corner got two this week DC, just very quickly.
Of course, our very owned Tim Soudy has been involved
in some violence and been handed an official reprimand after
lashing out at a hand sanitizing dispenser. This was at
the Brian Lara Cricket Academy. I think we can all
(41:50):
I empathize with Tim for this, but he did result
in a Level one breach of the ICC Code of Conduct,
which relates to the abuse of cricket equips or clothing,
all ground equipment or fixtures or fittings during an international match.
He has a unblemished disciplinary record now with one little
(42:11):
black mark on it. The second one is also World
Cup related. The world of Pakistan cricket has been rocked
by a controversial incident involving fast Bola Harris Ralph. This
has gone viral in the subcontinent outside his team hotel
during the T twenty World Cup in the USA following
Pakistan's disappointing exit he's caught on video. He looks visibly
upset and it confronts a group of fans over their
(42:33):
alleged disrespectful remarks. Despite efforts from bystanders, including his wife,
who's in full regalia and trying to intervene, he expresses
his frustration quite openly, I think is probably the best
way of saying it. And there was a I guess
he sparked a diplomatic incidents as well by assuming that
some of the fans were One of the fans I
think was Indian. The fan has confirmed that he's actually
(42:56):
Pakistani and was just having a crack and his own
player for having a bit of a shit tourna. So yeah,
but rough.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
But you did say that if you bring my family
into it, I will go at yeah, something to those
to that effect. And how very New Zealand, isn't it
that the violence involves an anti bacterial sanitizer. Yeah, we
like to keep our violence very clean, very very very
clean violence.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Well, I'm glad I think you said a challenge of
Cricket Violet's corner having to go around the world, and
it's good that New Zealand's finally done something that we
can but yeah, whether it qualifies as violence, you.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Know now that fair play to you. That's well done.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah, Dylan, I think that's just about us. Thanks everyone
for tuning in, dialing down, downloading, whatever you're doing riding
home from work punching walls. Yes, as Dylan said, you're
going to need to furtle your week watching other teams
play out the Super Eights. Hopefully Afghanistan continue to wreak
have it throughout this tournament and we can look back
and go well, at least we lost to them and
they were really damn good. I mean, this could be
(43:56):
an Afghanistan West Indies final in this World Cup. We'll
be back next week. In the meantime, if you've got
anything to get off your chest, send us a short
dire tribe to b YC at Base Brigade dot co,
dot z, Kakite and Kirkaha
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