June 14, 2024 • 39 mins
Dylan Cleaver joins Paul Ford for another episode of the BYC podcast!
In this episode, the fellas review the loss to the West Indies and examine the deeper problems in the loss (0:00) then head around the grounds and update all things T20 World Cup (22:00) and then sadly realise that and hope for the Black Caps is placed firmly in Corey Anderson (31:00)...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Altro. Welcome to the BOYC Podcast, a special edition post
mortem show coming to you from at the Export Beer
Garden Studio on a Friday after one of the saddest
days Satust weeks in recent New Zealand cricket history. You
can hear the strains of Henry Purcell's akingly Sad Diado's
lament a company today's podcast as we look back on
yesterday's defeat at the hands and bats of the tournament
(00:29):
hosts West Indies and reflect on what I'm going to
say is probably New Zealand's worst ever performance at a
T twenty Cricket World Cup. It is right down there
with not making it out of the group stages in
two thousand and nine, with a squad captained by Daniel
Vettori featuring Brendan Diamante, Peter McGlashan and Ian O'Brien. In fact,
(00:51):
in the eight T twenty World Cup tournaments since the
inaugural one in two thousand and seven, we've been runner
up to once, knocked out in the semis three times
and made the Super eight or Super ten three times,
chaot in the group stage only once Until this week,
twenty twenty four will be our t twenty Cricket World
Cup n It's horribilius on this front, in barring mathematical
and probabilities and freakis results in the coming minutes from PND. Yes,
(01:17):
unfortunate for godfather of the basebagade. I'm joined on this
ignominious day by Dylan Plea, the ol Pleasi Dente of
the substep newsletter The Bounce DC. How did you enjoy
yesterday's Do or Die game in San Fernando.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I really didn't enjoy it at all, Paul, but thanks
for leading me into that. In fact, I wrote just
to give my news letter The Bounce a bit of
a plug here. I wrote in The Bounce today that
New Zealand took the piss out of this tournament, and
the tournament ended. The tournament ended up taking the piss
out of New Zealand, and I said, it's already been
quoted somewhere, so it's obviously a line that's resonated with
(01:53):
a couple of people, and that's honestly how I feel
about it. You mentioned that two thousand and nine tournament,
and I barely remember it, but I think even back
then we were still trying to convince ourselves that Teach
when he was just a flash in a pan that
it didn't really mean anything. It was that kind of
who cares, you know. It was the sort of tournament
(02:14):
that you'd happily takee Brenda Diamante you off to. But
now we can't say that. I mean, sure, there's still
a lot of us for which Teach when he is
our least favorite of the formats, but you're naive in
the extreme if you don't recognize its important part in
the future of cricket's fabric, and in fact there's the
(02:34):
financial driver of cricket. So yeah, in summary, woeful, we
got what we deserved.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, it was very very tough watch. You say it
was tense. It was effectively a knockout game with New
Zealand now needing to sit pass Afghanistan on the table
to go through, and it's just.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, it's extremely unlikely, and we'll probably almost know by
the end of this podcast whether it's going to be
a thing with Papua New Guinea needing to absolutely annihilate
Afgunnis stand in their run chase for about one hundred
I think they got in the end in terms of
the conditions and the selections. I heard Luke Ronkey talk
about the surface the pictures being wavy, which is lit
(03:18):
adjective I hadn't heard before. There was a I mean
by Gary Stead standards. This was a knee jerk response.
There were three changes, with Revenger coming in for Chapman,
with Nie coming in for Bracewell, and Tim Southy the
wily old Dog coming in for Matt Henry. Still no
room for ish Sodi before or as you said, and
(03:40):
watched that toss and saw those selections, Dylan, what were
your What did you think of what the New Zealanders
were trying to do?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, I thought it was really interesting because on the surface,
all those changes were justifiable, and in fact, you could
have made a case for all four of those who
missed out in Diana to play in Trinidad. The problem
with it is that it's a reflection of how poorly
organized this campaign was. Because they knew they had their
big two games first up. The fact that they had
(04:10):
to make all those changes is a reflection of the
fact they got a badly roll in their selections in
the first one, and you cannot afford to do that
when you're going in without any preparation. So you know,
Tim Salley played well, Jimmy Nish and bowled pretty well.
Rationing didn't have a great day. But really what it
meant was you were taking out three players who might
(04:32):
not have been informed, but at least that actually played
a game of cricket in the Caribbean and placing them
with three guys coming in cold and again that just
speaks to me of a campaign that was neither here
of their harem scarem. But you know, you can make
a case for all of those changes being the right
thing to do. It just they should have been there
(04:52):
from game one if that was the direction they thought
they were.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Going in, Yeah, that's right. And of course just the atmosphere,
I've got to say it was sensation. I mean, this
is the spiritual home of West Indies, short form cricket,
sensational noisy drums, airhorns, look, black people were quite quite
a few hammered people in the stands just having an
(05:16):
absolute hell of a time. Fully sold out eight thirty start,
heaps of traffic issues apparently people just storming their way
out of There's a port of Spain to get down there.
I don't know if it's an down the coast.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, and of.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Course in someone maybe it was me. I wrote down
nineteen nineties cricket and nineteen nineties uniforms, and you know,
the tail has come back to haunt us. In terms
of what actually happened. Of course came Williams and winning
the toss and electing to bowl so again New Zealand
not having to have the dewy ball in their hand.
West Indies were got one hundred and forty nine for
(05:52):
nine with really and we'll talk about him some more
Chaffane rather for the absolute standout batsman in this match.
Trent Bolt did very well, as did Tim Sauvey. The
talisman Nicholas Poor and was the second top scorer with seventeen,
which says something about it. And in New Zealand, of course,
a faltering chase one hundred and thirty six for nine
off twenty overs. You know, I think Joseph was excellent
(06:15):
and I'm sure you've got something to say about the spinners,
but really, Western is wearing deep shit for so much
of this innings. I mean that was one for one,
two for twenty, three for twenty one and four for
twenty two when Rodmin Powell was dismissed in the sixth
over and that that was the moment that Chaffeg Brutherford
came to the crease twenty two for four in the
sixth over that initial book. Maybe that opening stands are
(06:39):
in the middle stands are bowling from his old What
we thoughts on that dem outstanding?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I thought Trent Bolton, Tim Sauve. Tim Sauve looked like
he was bowling with a bit of a chip on
his shoulder, almost the kind of message that you know,
I'm the world record holder for wickets and T twenty eyes,
what the hell are you thinking leaving me out at Guyana?
He was outstanding. Look, it got even worse than four
for twenty two for the Western these they were five
(07:05):
for thirty and then they just started to put together
these nickly little partnerships and this is where it got
a little bit muddled. And it's quite a I know,
T twenties bash and crash in that, but it's quite
a complex calculation that Kan Williamson then had to do
when the West Indies were losing those wickets. I think
(07:29):
he banked very early on the fact that it was
a seam friendly pitch it was go seam first, seam
always if you've got the chance, and we're going to
roll these guys in twelve overs. And maybe he was
even had a little bit of net run rate calculations
going on in his head as well, because of course,
just beating the West Indies student guarantee New Zealand a
(07:52):
place in the Super eights, the net run rate would
quite likely come into consideration, particularly we Sidy's he met
on a bat beat Afghanistan. But I'm getting hopelessly ahead
of myself here. I think Kame Williamson tied himself up
in knots by thinking, right, we're going to get these
guys out, We're going to get these guys out before
the fifteenth over. I'm going to use before seemas I'm
(08:15):
going to part Mitchell sat because I don't really like
the left hand over the wicket to a left hand
a better and chaffein rather thand I don't like that matchup.
Then hopefully I won't have to use it. And to
be fair to Williamson and who else was making those calculations,
it was so nearly genius, you know, we Sidny's got
(08:36):
to one hundred and twelve to nine, one more piece
of good luck or one more piece of good cricket
with Sidney's are in the hatch for one hundred and twelve,
and that is a target that is a hell of
a lot more appetizing than one hundred and fifty, which
I always thought was at least twenty runs too many.
(08:58):
But what were your thoughts when you were watching Darryl
Mitchell I guess limbering up to bowl his first over
of the match in the nineteenth over, knowing that the
twentieth over was going to have to be bold by
a spinner.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Whenever I see Daryl Mitchell warming up, I do think
of you, because I know so many times you've said,
if Dale Mitchll was bowling, we are in deep, deep
trouble or have made a bad decision. It was possibly well.
We weren't in debt trouble when he took the ball,
to be honest, but we certainly were by the time
he gave the ball back to the umpire. Look, first
of all, totally agree with you on the seamers. Bolt,
(09:37):
south Lockey and Nishan combined for forty nine dot balls
out of their ninety six deliveries, so effectively we're at six.
There's sixteen overs went for ninety one. But unfortunately those
four overs from Mitchell, Santa and Phillips cost fifty five,
and of course there's at least two of those. We're
at the death. One bright shining light I thought was
(09:58):
the fielding. I thought we looked like kind of got
our mode show back. On that front. We took basically everything.
The only drop was the rocket ship that hit Darryl
Mitchell in the guts and his blushes were saved two
balls later.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
When the when poor and hold out.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
But yeah, look, when Mitchell came on, I was thinking,
oh my god, is this a matchup O posession? And
then I realized, oh no, they've actually they've fully gone
for the kill here with the seam only attack and
it hasn't come off, and we've been caught short.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I was immediately thinking back to the nineteenth over against
Afghanistan where he went for sixteen. Gerbaz was still in
that felt like a hospital pass. I had a quick
lock just before we came on. Career bowling stats Darryl
Mitchell in twenty internationals seventeen overs, no maidens, eight for
one hundred and eighty three. I mean cheap as creepers,
(10:52):
so more than ten and over. It just seems like
a crazy plan to rely on him, and pretty unfair,
and as you say, it felt like, well it was
obvious that it wasn't a plan, it was through necessity,
and that seem only dogma seemed to be proven incorrect,
and maybe that lack of faith in Mitchell Santner against
(11:12):
you know, I totally understand that the matchup thing, but
I do wonder whether we're just getting a little bit
kind of intoxicated by the statistics there, you know, to
give you one. You know, Chaffane's strike create to left
arm spin in his career as one hundred and eighty,
but Daryl Mitchell went at a strike crate of three
hundred and seventeen. So what would you rather have? I mean,
it's sort of this crazy thing where a good bowler
(11:36):
like Santner has proven time and time again he can
bowl good balls to all kinds of batsmen in all
kinds of conditions, maybe except for a death over situation.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So yeah, I just I winced Dylan. Do you know
the one thing I would say, as some sort of
some form of devil's advocacy is that I think Mitchell
Sander is one of our great white bull bowlers. I
think he will go down as one of our eight
white ball bowlers. But I and this is anecdotal, I
have got no stats beside me to back this up.
(12:07):
But I actually think he's a better good pitch bowler
than he is a poor pitch bowler. And what I
mean by that is he spends an ordinate amount of
his overs I feel, trying to outfox the better, trying
to get inside the batter's head, anticipate what the batter
wants to do, and then bowl a ball accordingly, and
so you get these amazing changes of pace across as
(12:29):
six balls of any given over in t twenty. I
think in a wicket like that, you just bowl your
best ball over and over and over again. And I
found it. And that's what the West Indies spinners did.
And I find Sandler and these type of conditions very frustrating.
Sometimes the batterers are almost waiting on his variation as
big loopy one or as you know, a rocket arm ball. Yeah.
(12:53):
I just I really felt like reaching through the television
and shaking him and just saying, just bowl good balls.
It's all you need to do on this wicket, so
that would be my one perhaps you know, a reason why.
I kind of felt that Williamson might have been reluctant
to use Santanna earlier, which was a mistake. I mean
(13:15):
he should have, but that may be factoring into his
decision a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, And obviously we're talking in hindslight because that's what
we do. I mean, I think the other person that
we should talk about is Shaffan Rutherford. I mean, he
changed the game. The twenty five year old Guyanese all
round him. He's been playing in the he played the
Pakistan Domestic T twenty competition. He was in the Coldcutta
Night Riders in the IPL. Didn't play a game, I
don't think this year. It's sort of on the on
(13:44):
the beach like a lot of the New Zealanders. And
as we mentioned before, he came in the Western he
was were twenty two for four and the sixth over
and it was interesting, you know, he played an innings
of multiple gears. He was happy to hang around and
he had done the maths, you know, the interviews with
him after he said he was patiently waiting for this
for the top drawer in New Zealand seems to bowl out.
(14:06):
He thought if they could survive that, then an opportunity
would emerge. Well, he did the bowling mass superbly and
then he farmed the strike magnificently in those last two overs.
And I saw a stat which said it was the
highest temp wicket partnership in T twenty World Cups. It
was thirty seven or thirteen and good Akesh Mody contributed
zero runs to that partnership, which is quite amazing. And
(14:28):
I think what I would say about Rutherford as well
is that he's not just a Andre Russell slogger. He's
a genuine batsman who plays good cricket shots, not just
a basher in a blood. You know, he's been in
the shadows a bit and it was a real coming
of age innings.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah. I hear Colin Munro, who has played with him
against him in franchise cricket around the world, saying he's
very different to a lot of West Indian bathslim batters
and that he doesn't just try to access the leag boundary.
He's more than happy to go the other way and
open up and go over the off side, which you
know was on full display sixty eight not out thirty
(15:08):
nine deliveries, and you're right, it was a slow burning
so burner to get himself into a position where he
could launch, and you six sixes is a pretty tremendous
and in the end, utterly match winning knock. You know
that he was the difference between the two teams full stop.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So yeah, the West Indies struggled and then surprised their
way to one hundred and forty nine for nine. We'll
be back shortly. We'll have dig into this New Zealand
run chase. Welcome back to the BYC and Dylan. What
were your thoughts on this New Zealand run chase. I mean,
fin Allum got a few, there was a bit of
(15:49):
rust about, i'd suggest, but my overall impressions were no
real momentum in the innings.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, that's Deared right. Look, I feel like I'm saying
to pick on Devin Conway, so before I say this,
I would like to say that he sorted out as keeping.
He nearly made a mess of the skier, but he
grabbed it, which was important. And then the third catch
that he took was a genuinely good wicket keeper's catch.
(16:15):
Whether you are a part timer or whether you're the
reincarnation of Ian Smith, who I should point out, who
I should point out is not yet dead.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
But on that I'm just going to say there was
a bit of a kerfuffle around that. I don't know
if you clocked it, but there was a bit of
speculation that the ball had hit the Spider Camp wires
and there's a bit of a drama about that, and
I don't know whether it's pot proximity to those wires
and stuffed up conways run as well, but yeah, one
of those things where another little piece of weirdness that
(16:44):
you see in every single game of cricket.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, so his keeping was good and I was hoping
that confidence he might have gained from that flowed on
to his batting. But again, just a very stilted, uncomfortable
little stay that ended with a top edge sweep attempt,
if I remember rightly off a sane and the problem
was that Van Allen did what we've asked him to do,
(17:10):
which is to get through the tough patch and not
try to hit every ball for six. If you can't
do it. The only problem with him back playing quite
sensibly is that you're right there was no momentum, there
was nothing coming from the other end. Ratchen wasn't going
over the top and taking the pressure off him, and
he ended up, you know, playing a very pleasant chip
(17:33):
shot straight down the throat of the man of the
midwike at boundary. Kane Williamson did his for the second
game in a row. And Kan Williamson might be just
about the most intelligent cricketer that I've ever seen in
the way he sorts out his own game and situations.
But there's twice in a row he's gone out trying
to batcut a spinner in tricky conditions with a slip
(17:58):
in place. This time he didn't even get it to
the slip. It was a finer edge and went to
the keeper and the look of horror on his face
I think was quite a good picture where his mind
it might be out at the moment. Darryl Mitchell, James Nisham,
neither of them could get any momentum at all. And
then Phillips, although his numbers looked pretty good at the end,
(18:20):
he also struggled to get going. So yeah, it was
it was a chase that always felt ankle deep in mud.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
A quagmire Chase. I've got to say that delivery, or
the delivery that Mitchell got was an absolute beauty, sort
of floated up full length, drifted in and then around
the bat and just clipped that off stump. It was beautifully,
beautifully bald from it was Moti. I think, wasn't it
that one Mitch was by Moti? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
(18:53):
thought that Hassein Akil wasing sauce and good. I guess Moti.
They took four for forty six off there over as
the left arm spinners, and they were their tricky customers
on good wickets and with a bit of a wavy
pitch to play with. I thought that they were excellent.
And I saw a statistic I think it was in
crick Info which said that New Zealand have now lost
(19:14):
the joint most wickets to spin in the World Cup
level with Uganda, which is an ominous statistic. And I'm
sure that there's a matches played thing that we could
mess about with there. But I guess a few warning
signs or not even warning signs, just sort of red
alerts around how we play tricky spin.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, and again maybe an indictment on the fact that
we decided it was the same pitch only yeah, yeah,
well that's exactly right, it was.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And you know, there are a few other things that
caught my eye around it. One was that Glenn Fillips
is the only New Zealand batsman to have faced more
than twenty five balls in the tournament so far, which
is a FRONTWEK statistic, and the biggest partnership in New
Zealand has put on is twenty three in this part
Cricket World Cup. Is that top order? Perhaps? I'm not
(20:02):
quite sure. There was quite a humorous, humorous moment when
the satellite outage came in, just as things were really
getting completely and utterly impossible. It did feel like the
TV gods were invoking some sort of mercy law with
New Zealand needing I think about twenty one runs and
over at that point. The other thing about just looking
(20:23):
at the raw numbers with you know, New Zealand, you
know that reaching one hundred and thirty six for nine
and falling thirteen runs short sort of makes it sound
closer than it actually was, I think, And I think
that the Satni fire works at the end were sort
of saved embarrassment. But New Zealand was significantly short in
(20:47):
this run chase.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, I didn't see this sant the fireworks either because
I had stuff to do. A one set satellite outage
came I and I was following it on the on
the bull boy ball on my and yeah, so I
never actually I had not seen sand as three sixes,
but I'll I'll take advice on them. If they were
superb shots slugs chips.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
They were good shots followed by some of the least
amount the least celebrated sixes in history and the most blase.
But you know the bowler not even reacting to them
and just going straight back to the top of his
mark and getting hit front of the six and then
rent to repeat. Just are very much some quite callous
kind of cricket there at the end, no one giving
(21:33):
two ships really and yeah, Western he's got it done.
It was party time in the stands and the punishing alhorns.
Oh my god, they really got going there at the end.
And I got to say, when there's a World Cup,
I never want the home thing to cart out. I
want the home tan to at least make the final.
I think that's that would be wonderful. So I've got
no beef with with the West Indies, there was there
(21:55):
was no controversy in this game. We were beaten fair
and square. And as I say, i'd quite heavy for
Afghanistan not to make it through at New Zealand's sorry
Afghanisian not to make it through in New Zealand to
take them out, but it's just it's just not to be.
And so I guess looking ahead DC, we've got Uganda
and Papa New Guinea in the short term. I don't
(22:17):
wear no chance of qualifying, are we? I mean I
think no. Is it a mathematical kind of a scenario.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
As I look at this now, Afghanistan a thirty two
for two after five overs chasing ninety five to beat PNG,
So I mean there's potentially some trickiness there, but even still,
I don't think it matters. Yeah, And I mean, can
you imagine a more joyful scenario than going into the
(22:46):
Caribbean to play a tournament and ending up with two
dead rubbers against Uganda and Papua New Guinea to finish
the tournament? And what worries me is that miss this
might come out sounding the wrong way. I don't want
it to be. But what worries me is they'll go
and smash those two teams, and they'll come home and
(23:09):
there'll be those little panels you have in the newspaper
with their stats done, you know, average and such and such,
and a lot of the players will look quite reasonable.
And in ten years time, when you look at the
stants for the twenty twenty four World T twenty you say, oh,
such and such had a good tournament and you and
it'll be very hard to explain to them they're no, No,
(23:31):
those are pointless numbers.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
They've mean nothing, double dead rubber.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I just had a quick look at does look like
there's a sort of a watery, hopeless chant here because
both Gobez and zadre And are out the openers for Afghanistan.
So it's not it's not completely over, but it's looking
extremely unlikely. Just just as a reminder, New Zealand for
New Zealand through westerdy Is are through. For New Zealand
to qualify, they'd have to get past Afghanistan. Understand, I'm
(24:00):
currently playing the P ANDNG baron Mundy's and it looks
pretty unlikely that there's going to be an upset in
that game. So that would basically mean we're stuffed. If
if the unthinkable did happen, we still need to annihilate
Uganda and Papa New Guinea. Just to give you a
hypothetical scenario, Afghanistan would need to lose their last two
(24:22):
games by something like one hundred runs combined, and New
Zealand would have to win their last two games by
the feasible amount of about two hundred runs. So yeah, look,
I just think we can. We can put the we
can start to under this. We can we can limit Yeah. Yeah,
and you know, Dylan, I think we've heard some excuses
and there's been some interesting There was an interesting interview
(24:45):
this morning with Gary stead and Ready in New Zealand.
We He sort of talked about we did as much
as was possible based on what you know it was
it was. I wouldn't say it was weasel woods, but
suation that yeah, you can in the situation that he
wasn't in full control of this situation.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Is that fair? Yes, that's exactly right. Radio News in
this morning report asked him about his future and Gary said,
to quote, that's a question you should be asking other people.
I can look at myself in the mirror and know
that the preparation we tried to put in place has
been as good as what's capable of. And all I
can do is try and prepare the players to be
(25:25):
ready for the games. It's very curious, it's enigmatic. It's
probably a little level of cryptic in there. But there
are a few whispers that I mean, is it responsible?
Is it responsible of us to say what some of
(25:45):
those whispers are? But why not? It's our podcast. We
can do what we want. There are whispers that this
was a purely player driven this turning up to the
Caribbean late, and that, whereas other teams seem to have
been quite happy to assemble straight after the IPL, New
Zealand didn't want to. I don't know that there's one
(26:07):
hundred percent true, but there's certainly been some talk around
the traps of it being the case. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Interesting, Yeah, it's definitely some complexities. I think that certainly,
the question about his future, I've heard him say words
to that effect before, and you know, as he says,
it's he would. I'm sure it's not really up to
him to say whether he's the right person going forward.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
He just puts his name in the hat applies. He's
got two more years. He's got two more years, so
pay out if they decided to move on from him.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, So it would be sort of nuts for him
to go in there and say, oh no, I don't know,
I don't think I am. I think I've pretty much
had enough.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Just that just seems he's not going to do that
in the middle of a tournament, you know, even after
those two crappy results. First of all, good on New
Zealand Cricket for putting him up, and good on Gary
Stiff for doing the interviewcause I think that's that's a
credit to them and fronting up and all of those
good things. And Luke Ronkey was on Sky this week
and he asked sorry last night and he answered a
bunch of difficult questions as well. So you know, I
(27:09):
do think that that's good on them for that. In
terms of yeah, that that that preparation piece, it does
sound like, yes, you know, whether the player thing is
right or wrong, that's that's that's certainly something worth digging into.
Westerns is also a notoriously difficult place to get practical.
You know, the practice facilities are a bit shitty. The
(27:30):
tournament itself has got some really complicated logistics. But yeah,
could more have been done? I guess that's the question
that will come out in a in a review. But
it does seem like, for one reason and another, maybe
multiple reasons, we just look so undercooked, as has been
talked about ad nauseum. Yeah, on one excuse we don't
(27:52):
have is that we didn't have to play in New York.
I mean, any team that's got through playing cricket on
that on that extraordinary what I would say, And I
did check this before we came on here. The draw
came out in early January twenty twenty four. I think
it was the fifth of January, so it's literally five
months that we would have had to prepare ahead of
this tournament. Yeah, it does seem like we could have
(28:15):
perhaps set up a base a bit earlier and got
the guys that weren't in the IPL out there. Could
we have been playing some cricket around the Caribbean just
to get attuned, you know, I think there may have
been some opportunities to do something different there.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
There's also something that's been bigging me a little bit
about this, and that is the kind of negative noises
that were coming out of the camp almost from day one,
but the narrative was, oh, this has been so disrupted.
I think Mitchell sant and that used the word distorted
build up. Gary said before that second match spent a
lot of time lamenting the state of the nets that
(28:48):
they had to practice. It was this sort of.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Pre cooked in or pre built in excuses that I
haven't really heard a top level New Zealand two since
that all black side that went to Europe in COVID.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
And we're complaining before they lost to France and Ireland
about how long away they've been from home and they
genuinely had been away from home for a long time too,
but I know that rubbed people up the wrong way
as well.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
The other thing I was just going to mention, just
on expectation setting specifically, it is interesting how our expectations
have changed. I mean, this team has had a lot
of success for a lot of years, and you know,
I'm sure it would always be disappointing for New Zealand
to go out of the group stage, don't get me wrong,
but there was almost not an I think that a
lot of people at an expectation New Zealand would get through.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
To the semi finals, and.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
That is something that the team has earned over the
last fifteen years with some of the fantastic results they've had,
particularly in World tournament. Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to go.
I think we'll just go punch the wall respectively, and
we'll come back shortly and just rattle through a few
of the other results from around the ground at the
(30:00):
ICC T twenty Cricket World Cup. Welcome back to the
b YC. Dylan Cleve and Paul Ford chewing your air off.
Hopefully we haven't been too sad. We are a little
bit gloomy, no doubt about it. We're going to move
on our way from some of that New Zealand, those
New Zealand games and just sort of rattle through a
couple of the other results. South Africa beat Bangladesh and
(30:21):
a tight one DC getting home by four runs.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah, defending one hundred and thirteen on the notorious Long
Island Sound wicket that we've mentioned a nauseam.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yes, I'll tell you what. They nearly got home. They
needed a six, they need six off the last two
balls and Marmadilla smoked one and I reckon it was
about one foot away from being over the rope and
over Aiden Markram, but Aiden Markram caught it and Maharaj
managed to defend eleven off that final over, so South
Africa got home. They've done bloody well to sneak their
(30:54):
way through. They've had three games in New York and
they've got out of jail on all of those games,
so I think they're smoke for this tournament. Canada did well,
not didn't embarrass themselves to get to Pakistan. But Pakistan
got home comfortably in that one. They won by seven
wickets with fifteen balls remaining. Canada just not enjoying the
(31:15):
heat from the Pakistan bowlers. From some of the highlights
that I saw, Quedosta Aaron Johnson a forty four ball
fifty two, pretty damn good from him.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, he's been a revelation.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Nepal and Tri Lanka was abandoned without a ball being bold.
I love watching Nepal, so I was gutted about that.
I see Lama Shane, whatever his name is, he is,
he is in the he is over there. He's joined
the squad, so look out for him.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Once they left the United States, I think he joined
the scribe because he couldn't get a visa for the States.
So when they moved to the with Sindian portion he
joined the team.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Ah right, yes, that makes sense. Australia absolutely disemboweling Namibia.
Namibia seventy two all out in Australia getting home and
five point for overs without Mitchell Stark as well.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
My god, yeah, they had somewhere to go. Yeah, frightening.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
A game I actually really enjoyed was USA one hundred
and ten for eight and they had India in trouble
chasing one hundred and eleven, chasing the Nelson. And they
did get home by seven wickets with ten balls remaining.
But that was tight at times that match.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, and Coldy's having a little bit of a came
Williamson tournament today, isn't he? Three games? I mean, admittedly
all in difficult conditions, but three games, three single figure
scores including a first ball duck. So hasn't been his
tournament to date.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
He looks like you can't wait to get out of
the New York that's for sure. Indian captain Rowitt Sharma
had another blowout. There was the interesting thing about this
one was the penalty runs. So in the run chase,
Indian needed thirty five or thirty balls because the USA
had taken and been warned a couple of times about
(33:02):
how long they were taking to set their field. Of course,
they had a fill in captain. The captain was out injured,
and then they got the run of the equation. They
got penalized five runs and it went from thirty five
or thirty to thirty or thirty at an absolute crucial moment.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I thought that was pretty rough, to be honest. Yeah, yeah,
I didn't see it live. I've only heard about it since,
so I can't come into it as if I was
watching it, you know, and it blew me away at
the time. But yeah, it's just I mean, I'm I'm
glad that they're trying to speed the gam up. I
think it's important that cricket tries to be better, certainly
(33:40):
overrates and certainly speeding the game up in this new
sport attainment world. But it's just, I mean, surely there's
going to be some leeway from minnows playing against the
most powerful cricketing nation on Earth.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Well, that's the thing, and I don't want to dwell
on it, but you know, there is already a penalty
in the form of if you're behind time with your
overs you know, you have fielding restrictions put on you
in the death and so there's not a hell of
a lot of advantage. You can see that the captain
was desperately trying to work it all out, you know,
and it was probably in a situation where it's like,
oh my god, this is waitless, this is like what
we sort of dreamed about, and yeah, this fantasy situation
(34:18):
was coming into reality.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And then his mucking about or his.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Field has not been good at listening or whatever you
want to call it, ended up being a bit of
a well, it was just a pivotal moment that just
really put a ding in their hopes at that exactment.
At that time Bangladesh. I was surprised about this one.
Bangladesh got home by twenty five runs against the Netherlands
and it was disappointing that Shakhi ba Hassan found some form.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, I actually wasn't surprised by this, So I thought
some of these conditions are playing into Bangladesh's hands. Is
that it for the men in Orange? I think it
probably isn't that they've lost to South Africa and Bangladesh. Now,
Bangladesh has actually been pretty good, so yeah, I mean
they have it and that you're going to go through
(35:03):
in New Zealand aren't.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
And then another absolute drubbing this morning, Oman forty seven
all out, looking very very scared of Mark Wooden being
outspun as well, and Ardel Rashid possibly that well. I
think he's the number one T twenty boulder in the
world and he was absolutely all over them.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
He took four for eleven.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Then England mode it down off nineteen balls. This one
was over pretty much. While I ate my conflicts.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, it was quite incredible to watch really that they
moded down a nineteen bulls and still had time to
lose two wickets. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
It was one of those crazy games, kind of like
the games that were hopefully the Tailcaps will have over
the next couple of days against Papua.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
New Guinea and against Uganda.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Just reporting in Afghanistan fifty four for two looking good
now against Papua New Guinea. Hey, look, just before we go,
DC did just want to touch on a couple of
just a couple of little bits and pieces. There is
this chat around the format one loss, one rain out
against a team that you're expected to beat and you're
(36:10):
in trouble and I guess this has come to light
and I think they were tongue in check. Comments from
Josh Hazel would sort of talking about how Australians may
just try and do a bit of a gho slow
against Scotland and try and engineer things to see England ejected.
It's this weird thing where that game that got rained
down England's game against Scotland. Yes, you're Scotland are going well,
but it does feel a little bit like arguably a
(36:33):
little bit unfair.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah. I think Scotland got ripped off from that game.
I'm ninety for nought after ten when they were going
great guns. Yeah, I mean is always the problem if
you don't build in reserve days and I don't think
you can at this early stage of the tournament. Talk
about logistical nightmares that would certainly offer up a few,
(36:55):
particularly when you're using a limited amount of venues. So
it's what can you do. New Zealand has benefited from
rain at major tournaments before, most notably then rain now
against in India at the twenty nineteen World Cup and
Paul play probably save New Zealand and got them into
(37:18):
the semi finals. So it's just part and parton of
what you get with cricket. I don't think we can
overthink it. Yeah, a little bit of luck, but as
you say, none of it affecting New Zealand. Of course,
as I said before, didn't even have to play at
the quasi New York venue on Long Island. That rope unsafe,
(37:38):
inconsistent pitch. I did see that if.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
England beat Namibia on Saturday, basically, if they beat Namibia
comfortably given what happened today, England should be sweet as
unless Australia lose to Scotland. So that will be a
real test of how committed the Australians are to making
sure yea inject if they send out a team to
(38:03):
maybe bat with the wrong hand and bowl with blindfolds.
But yes, I guess from a New Zealand point of view,
and we we should head out of the building and
go sunk around.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Breaking new hopes, breaking news as we go. There is
hope Afghanis. Of course, by the time we all listen
to this it'll be long determined. But as we leave
this particular episode, Afghanisan have just lost the wicket of
Amazi for thirteen off for painstaking eighteen Bulls and Afghani
(38:32):
sand are limping a little towards ninety six. At fifty
five the three.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Wow, goodness, may I couldn't could it couldn't? And you know,
of course, depending on what happens in that match, all
New Zealand hopes will now be pinned on Corey Corey, Corey, Corey, Corey,
Corey Anderson of course, one of only I think five
players that have represented two countries at the T twenty
World Cup. Every little role of Fender Murder, the Skier,
(39:00):
Dirk nanis our very own Mark Chapman and David Visa,
the colossus from Namibia but actually from South Africa.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
DC.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think that's us.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It should be us. Thank you very much, Paul.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, good stuff. Let's go back to punching some wads
and sobbing into our sky TV remote. Thanks for joining
us for a somber and cathartic BYC podcast today, and
God bless you if you take time out of your
weekend to watch the Teilcaps versus the Uganda Cricket Cranes
on Saturday afternoon or and you can call yourself a
full cricket nuffy if you're going to interrupt your slumber
and stay up and get steamed for the Tuesday two
(39:37):
thirty am probable dead rubber between the Teilcaps and the
Kummel Petroleum sponsored baron Mundy's from Papa, New Guinea. We'll
be back next week sometime, and in the meantime, if
you have anything to get off your inflamed, phlegmatic, raging chest,
send us a short diatribe to b yc at Bejbagade
dot co dot MZ Kaki de Kia Kaha
Altro. Welcome to the BOYC Podcast, a special edition post
mortem show coming to you from at the Export Beer
Garden Studio on a Friday after one of the saddest
days Satust weeks in recent New Zealand cricket history. You
can hear the strains of Henry Purcell's akingly Sad Diado's
lament a company today's podcast as we look back on
yesterday's defeat at the hands and bats of the tournament
(00:29):
hosts West Indies and reflect on what I'm going to
say is probably New Zealand's worst ever performance at a
T twenty Cricket World Cup. It is right down there
with not making it out of the group stages in
two thousand and nine, with a squad captained by Daniel
Vettori featuring Brendan Diamante, Peter McGlashan and Ian O'Brien. In fact,
(00:51):
in the eight T twenty World Cup tournaments since the
inaugural one in two thousand and seven, we've been runner
up to once, knocked out in the semis three times
and made the Super eight or Super ten three times,
chaot in the group stage only once Until this week,
twenty twenty four will be our t twenty Cricket World
Cup n It's horribilius on this front, in barring mathematical
and probabilities and freakis results in the coming minutes from PND. Yes,
(01:17):
unfortunate for godfather of the basebagade. I'm joined on this
ignominious day by Dylan Plea, the ol Pleasi Dente of
the substep newsletter The Bounce DC. How did you enjoy
yesterday's Do or Die game in San Fernando.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I really didn't enjoy it at all, Paul, but thanks
for leading me into that. In fact, I wrote just
to give my news letter The Bounce a bit of
a plug here. I wrote in The Bounce today that
New Zealand took the piss out of this tournament, and
the tournament ended. The tournament ended up taking the piss
out of New Zealand, and I said, it's already been
quoted somewhere, so it's obviously a line that's resonated with
(01:53):
a couple of people, and that's honestly how I feel
about it. You mentioned that two thousand and nine tournament,
and I barely remember it, but I think even back
then we were still trying to convince ourselves that Teach
when he was just a flash in a pan that
it didn't really mean anything. It was that kind of
who cares, you know. It was the sort of tournament
(02:14):
that you'd happily takee Brenda Diamante you off to. But
now we can't say that. I mean, sure, there's still
a lot of us for which Teach when he is
our least favorite of the formats, but you're naive in
the extreme if you don't recognize its important part in
the future of cricket's fabric, and in fact there's the
(02:34):
financial driver of cricket. So yeah, in summary, woeful, we
got what we deserved.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, it was very very tough watch. You say it
was tense. It was effectively a knockout game with New
Zealand now needing to sit pass Afghanistan on the table
to go through, and it's just.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Well, it's extremely unlikely, and we'll probably almost know by
the end of this podcast whether it's going to be
a thing with Papua New Guinea needing to absolutely annihilate
Afgunnis stand in their run chase for about one hundred
I think they got in the end in terms of
the conditions and the selections. I heard Luke Ronkey talk
about the surface the pictures being wavy, which is lit
(03:18):
adjective I hadn't heard before. There was a I mean
by Gary Stead standards. This was a knee jerk response.
There were three changes, with Revenger coming in for Chapman,
with Nie coming in for Bracewell, and Tim Southy the
wily old Dog coming in for Matt Henry. Still no
room for ish Sodi before or as you said, and
(03:40):
watched that toss and saw those selections, Dylan, what were
your What did you think of what the New Zealanders
were trying to do?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, I thought it was really interesting because on the surface,
all those changes were justifiable, and in fact, you could
have made a case for all four of those who
missed out in Diana to play in Trinidad. The problem
with it is that it's a reflection of how poorly
organized this campaign was. Because they knew they had their
big two games first up. The fact that they had
(04:10):
to make all those changes is a reflection of the
fact they got a badly roll in their selections in
the first one, and you cannot afford to do that
when you're going in without any preparation. So you know,
Tim Salley played well, Jimmy Nish and bowled pretty well.
Rationing didn't have a great day. But really what it
meant was you were taking out three players who might
(04:32):
not have been informed, but at least that actually played
a game of cricket in the Caribbean and placing them
with three guys coming in cold and again that just
speaks to me of a campaign that was neither here
of their harem scarem. But you know, you can make
a case for all of those changes being the right
thing to do. It just they should have been there
(04:52):
from game one if that was the direction they thought
they were.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Going in, Yeah, that's right. And of course just the atmosphere,
I've got to say it was sensation. I mean, this
is the spiritual home of West Indies, short form cricket,
sensational noisy drums, airhorns, look, black people were quite quite
a few hammered people in the stands just having an
(05:16):
absolute hell of a time. Fully sold out eight thirty start,
heaps of traffic issues apparently people just storming their way
out of There's a port of Spain to get down there.
I don't know if it's an down the coast.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, and of.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Course in someone maybe it was me. I wrote down
nineteen nineties cricket and nineteen nineties uniforms, and you know,
the tail has come back to haunt us. In terms
of what actually happened. Of course came Williams and winning
the toss and electing to bowl so again New Zealand
not having to have the dewy ball in their hand.
West Indies were got one hundred and forty nine for
(05:52):
nine with really and we'll talk about him some more
Chaffane rather for the absolute standout batsman in this match.
Trent Bolt did very well, as did Tim Sauvey. The
talisman Nicholas Poor and was the second top scorer with seventeen,
which says something about it. And in New Zealand, of course,
a faltering chase one hundred and thirty six for nine
off twenty overs. You know, I think Joseph was excellent
(06:15):
and I'm sure you've got something to say about the spinners,
but really, Western is wearing deep shit for so much
of this innings. I mean that was one for one,
two for twenty, three for twenty one and four for
twenty two when Rodmin Powell was dismissed in the sixth
over and that that was the moment that Chaffeg Brutherford
came to the crease twenty two for four in the
sixth over that initial book. Maybe that opening stands are
(06:39):
in the middle stands are bowling from his old What
we thoughts on that dem outstanding?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I thought Trent Bolton, Tim Sauve. Tim Sauve looked like
he was bowling with a bit of a chip on
his shoulder, almost the kind of message that you know,
I'm the world record holder for wickets and T twenty eyes,
what the hell are you thinking leaving me out at Guyana?
He was outstanding. Look, it got even worse than four
for twenty two for the Western these they were five
(07:05):
for thirty and then they just started to put together
these nickly little partnerships and this is where it got
a little bit muddled. And it's quite a I know,
T twenties bash and crash in that, but it's quite
a complex calculation that Kan Williamson then had to do
when the West Indies were losing those wickets. I think
(07:29):
he banked very early on the fact that it was
a seam friendly pitch it was go seam first, seam
always if you've got the chance, and we're going to
roll these guys in twelve overs. And maybe he was
even had a little bit of net run rate calculations
going on in his head as well, because of course,
just beating the West Indies student guarantee New Zealand a
(07:52):
place in the Super eights, the net run rate would
quite likely come into consideration, particularly we Sidy's he met
on a bat beat Afghanistan. But I'm getting hopelessly ahead
of myself here. I think Kame Williamson tied himself up
in knots by thinking, right, we're going to get these
guys out, We're going to get these guys out before
the fifteenth over. I'm going to use before seemas I'm
(08:15):
going to part Mitchell sat because I don't really like
the left hand over the wicket to a left hand
a better and chaffein rather thand I don't like that matchup.
Then hopefully I won't have to use it. And to
be fair to Williamson and who else was making those calculations,
it was so nearly genius, you know, we Sidny's got
(08:36):
to one hundred and twelve to nine, one more piece
of good luck or one more piece of good cricket
with Sidney's are in the hatch for one hundred and twelve,
and that is a target that is a hell of
a lot more appetizing than one hundred and fifty, which
I always thought was at least twenty runs too many.
(08:58):
But what were your thoughts when you were watching Darryl
Mitchell I guess limbering up to bowl his first over
of the match in the nineteenth over, knowing that the
twentieth over was going to have to be bold by
a spinner.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Whenever I see Daryl Mitchell warming up, I do think
of you, because I know so many times you've said,
if Dale Mitchll was bowling, we are in deep, deep
trouble or have made a bad decision. It was possibly well.
We weren't in debt trouble when he took the ball,
to be honest, but we certainly were by the time
he gave the ball back to the umpire. Look, first
of all, totally agree with you on the seamers. Bolt,
(09:37):
south Lockey and Nishan combined for forty nine dot balls
out of their ninety six deliveries, so effectively we're at six.
There's sixteen overs went for ninety one. But unfortunately those
four overs from Mitchell, Santa and Phillips cost fifty five,
and of course there's at least two of those. We're
at the death. One bright shining light I thought was
(09:58):
the fielding. I thought we looked like kind of got
our mode show back. On that front. We took basically everything.
The only drop was the rocket ship that hit Darryl
Mitchell in the guts and his blushes were saved two
balls later.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
When the when poor and hold out.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
But yeah, look, when Mitchell came on, I was thinking,
oh my god, is this a matchup O posession? And
then I realized, oh no, they've actually they've fully gone
for the kill here with the seam only attack and
it hasn't come off, and we've been caught short.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I was immediately thinking back to the nineteenth over against
Afghanistan where he went for sixteen. Gerbaz was still in
that felt like a hospital pass. I had a quick
lock just before we came on. Career bowling stats Darryl
Mitchell in twenty internationals seventeen overs, no maidens, eight for
one hundred and eighty three. I mean cheap as creepers,
(10:52):
so more than ten and over. It just seems like
a crazy plan to rely on him, and pretty unfair,
and as you say, it felt like, well it was
obvious that it wasn't a plan, it was through necessity,
and that seem only dogma seemed to be proven incorrect,
and maybe that lack of faith in Mitchell Santner against
(11:12):
you know, I totally understand that the matchup thing, but
I do wonder whether we're just getting a little bit
kind of intoxicated by the statistics there, you know, to
give you one. You know, Chaffane's strike create to left
arm spin in his career as one hundred and eighty,
but Daryl Mitchell went at a strike crate of three
hundred and seventeen. So what would you rather have? I mean,
it's sort of this crazy thing where a good bowler
(11:36):
like Santner has proven time and time again he can
bowl good balls to all kinds of batsmen in all
kinds of conditions, maybe except for a death over situation.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So yeah, I just I winced Dylan. Do you know
the one thing I would say, as some sort of
some form of devil's advocacy is that I think Mitchell
Sander is one of our great white bull bowlers. I
think he will go down as one of our eight
white ball bowlers. But I and this is anecdotal, I
have got no stats beside me to back this up.
(12:07):
But I actually think he's a better good pitch bowler
than he is a poor pitch bowler. And what I
mean by that is he spends an ordinate amount of
his overs I feel, trying to outfox the better, trying
to get inside the batter's head, anticipate what the batter
wants to do, and then bowl a ball accordingly, and
so you get these amazing changes of pace across as
(12:29):
six balls of any given over in t twenty. I
think in a wicket like that, you just bowl your
best ball over and over and over again. And I
found it. And that's what the West Indies spinners did.
And I find Sandler and these type of conditions very frustrating.
Sometimes the batterers are almost waiting on his variation as
big loopy one or as you know, a rocket arm ball. Yeah.
(12:53):
I just I really felt like reaching through the television
and shaking him and just saying, just bowl good balls.
It's all you need to do on this wicket, so
that would be my one perhaps you know, a reason why.
I kind of felt that Williamson might have been reluctant
to use Santanna earlier, which was a mistake. I mean
(13:15):
he should have, but that may be factoring into his
decision a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, And obviously we're talking in hindslight because that's what
we do. I mean, I think the other person that
we should talk about is Shaffan Rutherford. I mean, he
changed the game. The twenty five year old Guyanese all
round him. He's been playing in the he played the
Pakistan Domestic T twenty competition. He was in the Coldcutta
Night Riders in the IPL. Didn't play a game, I
don't think this year. It's sort of on the on
(13:44):
the beach like a lot of the New Zealanders. And
as we mentioned before, he came in the Western he
was were twenty two for four and the sixth over
and it was interesting, you know, he played an innings
of multiple gears. He was happy to hang around and
he had done the maths, you know, the interviews with
him after he said he was patiently waiting for this
for the top drawer in New Zealand seems to bowl out.
(14:06):
He thought if they could survive that, then an opportunity
would emerge. Well, he did the bowling mass superbly and
then he farmed the strike magnificently in those last two overs.
And I saw a stat which said it was the
highest temp wicket partnership in T twenty World Cups. It
was thirty seven or thirteen and good Akesh Mody contributed
zero runs to that partnership, which is quite amazing. And
(14:28):
I think what I would say about Rutherford as well
is that he's not just a Andre Russell slogger. He's
a genuine batsman who plays good cricket shots, not just
a basher in a blood. You know, he's been in
the shadows a bit and it was a real coming
of age innings.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah. I hear Colin Munro, who has played with him
against him in franchise cricket around the world, saying he's
very different to a lot of West Indian bathslim batters
and that he doesn't just try to access the leag boundary.
He's more than happy to go the other way and
open up and go over the off side, which you
know was on full display sixty eight not out thirty
(15:08):
nine deliveries, and you're right, it was a slow burning
so burner to get himself into a position where he
could launch, and you six sixes is a pretty tremendous
and in the end, utterly match winning knock. You know
that he was the difference between the two teams full stop.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
So yeah, the West Indies struggled and then surprised their
way to one hundred and forty nine for nine. We'll
be back shortly. We'll have dig into this New Zealand
run chase. Welcome back to the BYC and Dylan. What
were your thoughts on this New Zealand run chase. I mean,
fin Allum got a few, there was a bit of
(15:49):
rust about, i'd suggest, but my overall impressions were no
real momentum in the innings.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, that's Deared right. Look, I feel like I'm saying
to pick on Devin Conway, so before I say this,
I would like to say that he sorted out as keeping.
He nearly made a mess of the skier, but he
grabbed it, which was important. And then the third catch
that he took was a genuinely good wicket keeper's catch.
(16:15):
Whether you are a part timer or whether you're the
reincarnation of Ian Smith, who I should point out, who
I should point out is not yet dead.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
But on that I'm just going to say there was
a bit of a kerfuffle around that. I don't know
if you clocked it, but there was a bit of
speculation that the ball had hit the Spider Camp wires
and there's a bit of a drama about that, and
I don't know whether it's pot proximity to those wires
and stuffed up conways run as well, but yeah, one
of those things where another little piece of weirdness that
(16:44):
you see in every single game of cricket.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, so his keeping was good and I was hoping
that confidence he might have gained from that flowed on
to his batting. But again, just a very stilted, uncomfortable
little stay that ended with a top edge sweep attempt,
if I remember rightly off a sane and the problem
was that Van Allen did what we've asked him to do,
(17:10):
which is to get through the tough patch and not
try to hit every ball for six. If you can't
do it. The only problem with him back playing quite
sensibly is that you're right there was no momentum, there
was nothing coming from the other end. Ratchen wasn't going
over the top and taking the pressure off him, and
he ended up, you know, playing a very pleasant chip
(17:33):
shot straight down the throat of the man of the
midwike at boundary. Kane Williamson did his for the second
game in a row. And Kan Williamson might be just
about the most intelligent cricketer that I've ever seen in
the way he sorts out his own game and situations.
But there's twice in a row he's gone out trying
to batcut a spinner in tricky conditions with a slip
(17:58):
in place. This time he didn't even get it to
the slip. It was a finer edge and went to
the keeper and the look of horror on his face
I think was quite a good picture where his mind
it might be out at the moment. Darryl Mitchell, James Nisham,
neither of them could get any momentum at all. And
then Phillips, although his numbers looked pretty good at the end,
(18:20):
he also struggled to get going. So yeah, it was
it was a chase that always felt ankle deep in mud.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
A quagmire Chase. I've got to say that delivery, or
the delivery that Mitchell got was an absolute beauty, sort
of floated up full length, drifted in and then around
the bat and just clipped that off stump. It was beautifully,
beautifully bald from it was Moti. I think, wasn't it
that one Mitch was by Moti? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
(18:53):
thought that Hassein Akil wasing sauce and good. I guess Moti.
They took four for forty six off there over as
the left arm spinners, and they were their tricky customers
on good wickets and with a bit of a wavy
pitch to play with. I thought that they were excellent.
And I saw a statistic I think it was in
crick Info which said that New Zealand have now lost
(19:14):
the joint most wickets to spin in the World Cup
level with Uganda, which is an ominous statistic. And I'm
sure that there's a matches played thing that we could
mess about with there. But I guess a few warning
signs or not even warning signs, just sort of red
alerts around how we play tricky spin.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, and again maybe an indictment on the fact that
we decided it was the same pitch only yeah, yeah,
well that's exactly right, it was.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And you know, there are a few other things that
caught my eye around it. One was that Glenn Fillips
is the only New Zealand batsman to have faced more
than twenty five balls in the tournament so far, which
is a FRONTWEK statistic, and the biggest partnership in New
Zealand has put on is twenty three in this part
Cricket World Cup. Is that top order? Perhaps? I'm not
(20:02):
quite sure. There was quite a humorous, humorous moment when
the satellite outage came in, just as things were really
getting completely and utterly impossible. It did feel like the
TV gods were invoking some sort of mercy law with
New Zealand needing I think about twenty one runs and
over at that point. The other thing about just looking
(20:23):
at the raw numbers with you know, New Zealand, you
know that reaching one hundred and thirty six for nine
and falling thirteen runs short sort of makes it sound
closer than it actually was, I think, And I think
that the Satni fire works at the end were sort
of saved embarrassment. But New Zealand was significantly short in
(20:47):
this run chase.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, I didn't see this sant the fireworks either because
I had stuff to do. A one set satellite outage
came I and I was following it on the on
the bull boy ball on my and yeah, so I
never actually I had not seen sand as three sixes,
but I'll I'll take advice on them. If they were
superb shots slugs chips.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
They were good shots followed by some of the least
amount the least celebrated sixes in history and the most blase.
But you know the bowler not even reacting to them
and just going straight back to the top of his
mark and getting hit front of the six and then
rent to repeat. Just are very much some quite callous
kind of cricket there at the end, no one giving
(21:33):
two ships really and yeah, Western he's got it done.
It was party time in the stands and the punishing alhorns.
Oh my god, they really got going there at the end.
And I got to say, when there's a World Cup,
I never want the home thing to cart out. I
want the home tan to at least make the final.
I think that's that would be wonderful. So I've got
no beef with with the West Indies, there was there
(21:55):
was no controversy in this game. We were beaten fair
and square. And as I say, i'd quite heavy for
Afghanistan not to make it through at New Zealand's sorry
Afghanisian not to make it through in New Zealand to
take them out, but it's just it's just not to be.
And so I guess looking ahead DC, we've got Uganda
and Papa New Guinea in the short term. I don't
(22:17):
wear no chance of qualifying, are we? I mean I
think no. Is it a mathematical kind of a scenario.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
As I look at this now, Afghanistan a thirty two
for two after five overs chasing ninety five to beat PNG,
So I mean there's potentially some trickiness there, but even still,
I don't think it matters. Yeah, And I mean, can
you imagine a more joyful scenario than going into the
(22:46):
Caribbean to play a tournament and ending up with two
dead rubbers against Uganda and Papua New Guinea to finish
the tournament? And what worries me is that miss this
might come out sounding the wrong way. I don't want
it to be. But what worries me is they'll go
and smash those two teams, and they'll come home and
(23:09):
there'll be those little panels you have in the newspaper
with their stats done, you know, average and such and such,
and a lot of the players will look quite reasonable.
And in ten years time, when you look at the
stants for the twenty twenty four World T twenty you say, oh,
such and such had a good tournament and you and
it'll be very hard to explain to them they're no, No,
(23:31):
those are pointless numbers.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
They've mean nothing, double dead rubber.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I just had a quick look at does look like
there's a sort of a watery, hopeless chant here because
both Gobez and zadre And are out the openers for Afghanistan.
So it's not it's not completely over, but it's looking
extremely unlikely. Just just as a reminder, New Zealand for
New Zealand through westerdy Is are through. For New Zealand
to qualify, they'd have to get past Afghanistan. Understand, I'm
(24:00):
currently playing the P ANDNG baron Mundy's and it looks
pretty unlikely that there's going to be an upset in
that game. So that would basically mean we're stuffed. If
if the unthinkable did happen, we still need to annihilate
Uganda and Papa New Guinea. Just to give you a
hypothetical scenario, Afghanistan would need to lose their last two
(24:22):
games by something like one hundred runs combined, and New
Zealand would have to win their last two games by
the feasible amount of about two hundred runs. So yeah, look,
I just think we can. We can put the we
can start to under this. We can we can limit Yeah. Yeah,
and you know, Dylan, I think we've heard some excuses
and there's been some interesting There was an interesting interview
(24:45):
this morning with Gary stead and Ready in New Zealand.
We He sort of talked about we did as much
as was possible based on what you know it was
it was. I wouldn't say it was weasel woods, but
suation that yeah, you can in the situation that he
wasn't in full control of this situation.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Is that fair? Yes, that's exactly right. Radio News in
this morning report asked him about his future and Gary said,
to quote, that's a question you should be asking other people.
I can look at myself in the mirror and know
that the preparation we tried to put in place has
been as good as what's capable of. And all I
can do is try and prepare the players to be
(25:25):
ready for the games. It's very curious, it's enigmatic. It's
probably a little level of cryptic in there. But there
are a few whispers that I mean, is it responsible?
Is it responsible of us to say what some of
(25:45):
those whispers are? But why not? It's our podcast. We
can do what we want. There are whispers that this
was a purely player driven this turning up to the
Caribbean late, and that, whereas other teams seem to have
been quite happy to assemble straight after the IPL, New
Zealand didn't want to. I don't know that there's one
(26:07):
hundred percent true, but there's certainly been some talk around
the traps of it being the case. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Interesting, Yeah, it's definitely some complexities. I think that certainly,
the question about his future, I've heard him say words
to that effect before, and you know, as he says,
it's he would. I'm sure it's not really up to
him to say whether he's the right person going forward.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
He just puts his name in the hat applies. He's
got two more years. He's got two more years, so
pay out if they decided to move on from him.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, So it would be sort of nuts for him
to go in there and say, oh no, I don't know,
I don't think I am. I think I've pretty much
had enough.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Just that just seems he's not going to do that
in the middle of a tournament, you know, even after
those two crappy results. First of all, good on New
Zealand Cricket for putting him up, and good on Gary
Stiff for doing the interviewcause I think that's that's a
credit to them and fronting up and all of those
good things. And Luke Ronkey was on Sky this week
and he asked sorry last night and he answered a
bunch of difficult questions as well. So you know, I
(27:09):
do think that that's good on them for that. In
terms of yeah, that that that preparation piece, it does
sound like, yes, you know, whether the player thing is
right or wrong, that's that's that's certainly something worth digging into.
Westerns is also a notoriously difficult place to get practical.
You know, the practice facilities are a bit shitty. The
(27:30):
tournament itself has got some really complicated logistics. But yeah,
could more have been done? I guess that's the question
that will come out in a in a review. But
it does seem like, for one reason and another, maybe
multiple reasons, we just look so undercooked, as has been
talked about ad nauseum. Yeah, on one excuse we don't
(27:52):
have is that we didn't have to play in New York.
I mean, any team that's got through playing cricket on
that on that extraordinary what I would say, And I
did check this before we came on here. The draw
came out in early January twenty twenty four. I think
it was the fifth of January, so it's literally five
months that we would have had to prepare ahead of
this tournament. Yeah, it does seem like we could have
(28:15):
perhaps set up a base a bit earlier and got
the guys that weren't in the IPL out there. Could
we have been playing some cricket around the Caribbean just
to get attuned, you know, I think there may have
been some opportunities to do something different there.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
There's also something that's been bigging me a little bit
about this, and that is the kind of negative noises
that were coming out of the camp almost from day one,
but the narrative was, oh, this has been so disrupted.
I think Mitchell sant and that used the word distorted
build up. Gary said before that second match spent a
lot of time lamenting the state of the nets that
(28:48):
they had to practice. It was this sort of.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Pre cooked in or pre built in excuses that I
haven't really heard a top level New Zealand two since
that all black side that went to Europe in COVID.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
And we're complaining before they lost to France and Ireland
about how long away they've been from home and they
genuinely had been away from home for a long time too,
but I know that rubbed people up the wrong way
as well.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
The other thing I was just going to mention, just
on expectation setting specifically, it is interesting how our expectations
have changed. I mean, this team has had a lot
of success for a lot of years, and you know,
I'm sure it would always be disappointing for New Zealand
to go out of the group stage, don't get me wrong,
but there was almost not an I think that a
lot of people at an expectation New Zealand would get through.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
To the semi finals, and.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
That is something that the team has earned over the
last fifteen years with some of the fantastic results they've had,
particularly in World tournament. Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to go.
I think we'll just go punch the wall respectively, and
we'll come back shortly and just rattle through a few
of the other results from around the ground at the
(30:00):
ICC T twenty Cricket World Cup. Welcome back to the
b YC. Dylan Cleve and Paul Ford chewing your air off.
Hopefully we haven't been too sad. We are a little
bit gloomy, no doubt about it. We're going to move
on our way from some of that New Zealand, those
New Zealand games and just sort of rattle through a
couple of the other results. South Africa beat Bangladesh and
(30:21):
a tight one DC getting home by four runs.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah, defending one hundred and thirteen on the notorious Long
Island Sound wicket that we've mentioned a nauseam.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yes, I'll tell you what. They nearly got home. They
needed a six, they need six off the last two
balls and Marmadilla smoked one and I reckon it was
about one foot away from being over the rope and
over Aiden Markram, but Aiden Markram caught it and Maharaj
managed to defend eleven off that final over, so South
Africa got home. They've done bloody well to sneak their
(30:54):
way through. They've had three games in New York and
they've got out of jail on all of those games,
so I think they're smoke for this tournament. Canada did well,
not didn't embarrass themselves to get to Pakistan. But Pakistan
got home comfortably in that one. They won by seven
wickets with fifteen balls remaining. Canada just not enjoying the
(31:15):
heat from the Pakistan bowlers. From some of the highlights
that I saw, Quedosta Aaron Johnson a forty four ball
fifty two, pretty damn good from him.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah, he's been a revelation.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Nepal and Tri Lanka was abandoned without a ball being bold.
I love watching Nepal, so I was gutted about that.
I see Lama Shane, whatever his name is, he is,
he is in the he is over there. He's joined
the squad, so look out for him.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Once they left the United States, I think he joined
the scribe because he couldn't get a visa for the States.
So when they moved to the with Sindian portion he
joined the team.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Ah right, yes, that makes sense. Australia absolutely disemboweling Namibia.
Namibia seventy two all out in Australia getting home and
five point for overs without Mitchell Stark as well.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
My god, yeah, they had somewhere to go. Yeah, frightening.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
A game I actually really enjoyed was USA one hundred
and ten for eight and they had India in trouble
chasing one hundred and eleven, chasing the Nelson. And they
did get home by seven wickets with ten balls remaining.
But that was tight at times that match.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, and Coldy's having a little bit of a came
Williamson tournament today, isn't he? Three games? I mean, admittedly
all in difficult conditions, but three games, three single figure
scores including a first ball duck. So hasn't been his
tournament to date.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
He looks like you can't wait to get out of
the New York that's for sure. Indian captain Rowitt Sharma
had another blowout. There was the interesting thing about this
one was the penalty runs. So in the run chase,
Indian needed thirty five or thirty balls because the USA
had taken and been warned a couple of times about
(33:02):
how long they were taking to set their field. Of course,
they had a fill in captain. The captain was out injured,
and then they got the run of the equation. They
got penalized five runs and it went from thirty five
or thirty to thirty or thirty at an absolute crucial moment.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I thought that was pretty rough, to be honest. Yeah, yeah,
I didn't see it live. I've only heard about it since,
so I can't come into it as if I was
watching it, you know, and it blew me away at
the time. But yeah, it's just I mean, I'm I'm
glad that they're trying to speed the gam up. I
think it's important that cricket tries to be better, certainly
(33:40):
overrates and certainly speeding the game up in this new
sport attainment world. But it's just, I mean, surely there's
going to be some leeway from minnows playing against the
most powerful cricketing nation on Earth.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Well, that's the thing, and I don't want to dwell
on it, but you know, there is already a penalty
in the form of if you're behind time with your
overs you know, you have fielding restrictions put on you
in the death and so there's not a hell of
a lot of advantage. You can see that the captain
was desperately trying to work it all out, you know,
and it was probably in a situation where it's like,
oh my god, this is waitless, this is like what
we sort of dreamed about, and yeah, this fantasy situation
(34:18):
was coming into reality.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And then his mucking about or his.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Field has not been good at listening or whatever you
want to call it, ended up being a bit of
a well, it was just a pivotal moment that just
really put a ding in their hopes at that exactment.
At that time Bangladesh. I was surprised about this one.
Bangladesh got home by twenty five runs against the Netherlands
and it was disappointing that Shakhi ba Hassan found some form.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, I actually wasn't surprised by this, So I thought
some of these conditions are playing into Bangladesh's hands. Is
that it for the men in Orange? I think it
probably isn't that they've lost to South Africa and Bangladesh. Now,
Bangladesh has actually been pretty good, so yeah, I mean
they have it and that you're going to go through
(35:03):
in New Zealand aren't.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
And then another absolute drubbing this morning, Oman forty seven
all out, looking very very scared of Mark Wooden being
outspun as well, and Ardel Rashid possibly that well. I
think he's the number one T twenty boulder in the
world and he was absolutely all over them.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
He took four for eleven.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Then England mode it down off nineteen balls. This one
was over pretty much. While I ate my conflicts.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, it was quite incredible to watch really that they
moded down a nineteen bulls and still had time to
lose two wickets. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
It was one of those crazy games, kind of like
the games that were hopefully the Tailcaps will have over
the next couple of days against Papua.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
New Guinea and against Uganda.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Just reporting in Afghanistan fifty four for two looking good
now against Papua New Guinea. Hey, look, just before we go,
DC did just want to touch on a couple of
just a couple of little bits and pieces. There is
this chat around the format one loss, one rain out
against a team that you're expected to beat and you're
(36:10):
in trouble and I guess this has come to light
and I think they were tongue in check. Comments from
Josh Hazel would sort of talking about how Australians may
just try and do a bit of a gho slow
against Scotland and try and engineer things to see England ejected.
It's this weird thing where that game that got rained
down England's game against Scotland. Yes, you're Scotland are going well,
but it does feel a little bit like arguably a
(36:33):
little bit unfair.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah. I think Scotland got ripped off from that game.
I'm ninety for nought after ten when they were going
great guns. Yeah, I mean is always the problem if
you don't build in reserve days and I don't think
you can at this early stage of the tournament. Talk
about logistical nightmares that would certainly offer up a few,
(36:55):
particularly when you're using a limited amount of venues. So
it's what can you do. New Zealand has benefited from
rain at major tournaments before, most notably then rain now
against in India at the twenty nineteen World Cup and
Paul play probably save New Zealand and got them into
(37:18):
the semi finals. So it's just part and parton of
what you get with cricket. I don't think we can
overthink it. Yeah, a little bit of luck, but as
you say, none of it affecting New Zealand. Of course,
as I said before, didn't even have to play at
the quasi New York venue on Long Island. That rope unsafe,
(37:38):
inconsistent pitch. I did see that if.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
England beat Namibia on Saturday, basically, if they beat Namibia
comfortably given what happened today, England should be sweet as
unless Australia lose to Scotland. So that will be a
real test of how committed the Australians are to making
sure yea inject if they send out a team to
(38:03):
maybe bat with the wrong hand and bowl with blindfolds.
But yes, I guess from a New Zealand point of view,
and we we should head out of the building and
go sunk around.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Breaking new hopes, breaking news as we go. There is
hope Afghanis. Of course, by the time we all listen
to this it'll be long determined. But as we leave
this particular episode, Afghanisan have just lost the wicket of
Amazi for thirteen off for painstaking eighteen Bulls and Afghani
(38:32):
sand are limping a little towards ninety six. At fifty
five the three.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Wow, goodness, may I couldn't could it couldn't? And you know,
of course, depending on what happens in that match, all
New Zealand hopes will now be pinned on Corey Corey, Corey, Corey, Corey,
Corey Anderson of course, one of only I think five
players that have represented two countries at the T twenty
World Cup. Every little role of Fender Murder, the Skier,
(39:00):
Dirk nanis our very own Mark Chapman and David Visa,
the colossus from Namibia but actually from South Africa.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
DC.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think that's us.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It should be us. Thank you very much, Paul.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, good stuff. Let's go back to punching some wads
and sobbing into our sky TV remote. Thanks for joining
us for a somber and cathartic BYC podcast today, and
God bless you if you take time out of your
weekend to watch the Teilcaps versus the Uganda Cricket Cranes
on Saturday afternoon or and you can call yourself a
full cricket nuffy if you're going to interrupt your slumber
and stay up and get steamed for the Tuesday two
(39:37):
thirty am probable dead rubber between the Teilcaps and the
Kummel Petroleum sponsored baron Mundy's from Papa, New Guinea. We'll
be back next week sometime, and in the meantime, if
you have anything to get off your inflamed, phlegmatic, raging chest,
send us a short diatribe to b yc at Bejbagade
dot co dot MZ Kaki de Kia Kaha
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