November 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Michael Every, Dr Jacqueline Rowarth, Christopher Luxon, and Geoff Ross.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The best of the country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Grow with Rabobank, we'd.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Ever crown, I can't walk out.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
We got a.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
Might pay today and good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay.
This is the best of the country. Each and every
Saturday morning here on News Talks THE'DB between six and seven,
we play you the best bits of our weekday show
twelve to one, and we do so courtesy of Rabobank.
We're growing a better New Zealand together. Kicking it off
with the King Elvis. We've got the King of Economic
commentary kicking off our show today, Michael Every Rabobanks Singapore
(00:46):
based global strategists having a look at not only the
global economy, but New Zealand's domestic economy. And a week
where we saw the official cash rate drop to probably
the bottom of this interest rate. Doctor Jacqueline Rowe with
one of our leading primary sector academics, takes Climate change
or took the Climate Change Talk Fest also known as
(01:10):
COP thirty to task. Now you look at the carbon
footprint of that event, fifty six thousand people and tell
me tell me how that saves the planet. Christopher Luxen,
Prime Minister, has a regular slot on the show on Wednesdays.
He at a very early start, will tell you about
that and One of the more interesting interviews this week
was with Jeff Ross, the man behind New Zealand's first
(01:32):
carbon neutral farm. Along with his wife Justine, they run
and own Lake harwea station. He shared his plan to
help fallow farmers monetize their existing woody vegetation by attaining
carbon credits through the ETES. Yeah, money for jam. It's
all on the best of the country and it's all
brought to you by Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Rabobank always love chatting to this man on the country,
even if I don't always like the message. His name
is Michael Every, Rabobanks, Singapore based global strategist. Last week,
Rabobank came out with its agri Commodity outlook for twenty
twenty six. The headline more than just supply and Demand
factors shaping global agriculture and twenty twenty six with geopolitics
(02:31):
set to play a crucial role China via the USA. Michael,
every surprise surprise.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
Yes, absolutely well, I'd like to think I probably had
a little bit of input into that, And by the way,
it was completely correct, because just after it came out,
we have had the surprising news that we have a
potential Ukraine peace deal on the table. Even though the
form of it is very contentious and the final form
(03:00):
of it is unclear, it does appear as if something
along those lines is going to transpire, and potentially as
soon as Thursday.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
But as Trump selling U crying out.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
That's a really loaded question because he certainly isn't prepared
to keep backing Ukraine the way it's being backed so far.
That's abundantly clear he is forcing a settlement if we
see the terms finally being what we've seen floated so far,
(03:36):
which is to say that will withhold military aid, will
withhold intel, and of course we will hold funding. If
you're not going to sign up for this, that is
you know, basically saying sign here, thank you very much.
But at the same time, if America is not in
a position to continue doing more than that in the
longer run, and Europe is unable to stand up and
fill the gap, what other option was there on the table.
(03:59):
So I'm not trying to take a strong editorial stance
one way or the other. It's undeniable the case that
America is forcing Ukraine to sign. If that is the
final version of the deal. It does also, however, guarantee
Ukraine's sovereignty. It does have a defense guarantee, and it
does have an economic guarantee in it to try and
incentivize everybody to benefit from peace rather than war. So
(04:20):
it's not completely one sided, but it is very much
not what Ukraine wanted.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Rabobank's agricommodity outlook that I've referenced for twenty twenty six,
one of the interesting numbers I looked at was GDP
growth on a global stage two point nine percent this year,
easing to two point seven percent and twenty twenty six.
What happened to the world economy is coming right?
Speaker 6 (04:44):
Well. I don't want to say anything negative about anyone
who put in the hard work to produce those numbers,
but I don't think they really tell much of a story.
The GDP in itself as a concept at a national
level is something I don't take very seriously. I want
to be abundantly clear there. It was set up, you know,
(05:05):
by the by the Americans in World War two to
try and measure military output, and somehow we've expanded it
to explain anything and everything going on around us. And
I think it knows the price of everything and the
value of nothing that's GDP for any national country. And
then you've got the questions of, you know, the quality
of the data, which is getting worse and worse as
everything changes structurally. So the world economy then incorporates loads
of economies who just produce really dodgy numbers, you know,
(05:29):
because you're you're doing Tom, Dick and Harry rather than
just just the West. And I really really would not
be trading that as a number, not just from Rabbi,
but I mean from anyone at all, you know, as
a real directionality. I'm sure anyone who's out there on
the farm has got a far better idea of what
actual supply and demand looks like than someone sitting behind
(05:50):
a spreadsheets. So let me try to say that to,
you know, to put a positive spin on it.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
What do you think the world commodity outlook will be
for twenty twenty six From a New Zealand point of view,
and we're going to focus more in on New Zealand
on the sick and part of this interview. But do
you see commodity prices across the globe holding up?
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Well, it really depends on the geoppedical outlook of That's
what we said in the Heltlook that we published, because
for example, if we get this Russia deal, if Russia
is reincorporated into the global economy, all sanctions are dropped,
you know, you have a very different backdrop to the
one that would have been presumed a week ago, where
that wasn't the case. You know, there are winners and
(06:30):
losers within that, and it's too complex to unpack here
now I'm afraid on the call exactly who wins and
who loses. But one really easy point that you can
make is that it's definitely going to start to affect
things like diesel prices, which is good for farmers because
obviously diesel's used on the farm. If Russia and Ukraine
are no longer blowing up each other's refineries and energy supplies,
(06:51):
and if Russia sanctions are lifted on Russian diesel, that's
going to get that much cheaper everywhere, which is a
real boost and again goes to show how the numbers
that predict confidently will happen next year can change, you know,
with one political decision. So remains to be seen. But
commodities are crucially regardless of that particular backdrop of that story,
(07:12):
very very much in the eye of the storm. I mean,
these aren't ones that New Zealand specializes in, for example,
the rare earth that we read about all the time.
But commodities run through the overall geopolitical architecture like your
you know the name of the holiday resort you go
to through a stick of rock, thinking about you know
what seaside towns in the UK used to be like.
So that story isn't going to go away.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Just a final comment from you, Michael every on the
equity markets, do you buy into this AI bubble burst?
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Well, I don't talk equity. I want to be abundantly clear.
What I can mention just in terms of the concept
of AI is I don't think people understand the totality
of what we're talking about here. Because if AI does
everything that it promises, well, no one's going to have
(08:04):
a job. It's as simple as that we're going to
have miraculous breakthroughs in areas that we've never had them
in before, and we're close for that from what I see.
You know, in areas like mathematics and physics, we can
really really push the envelope. But in terms of you know,
your mid level white colored jobs, enormous numbers of them
can be just swallowed up by technology and an a
shorter timeframe than people realize. And if you think people
(08:26):
are young people are unhappy now because housing so expensive,
we'll try telling them they'll never get a job on top.
So you know, the implications for that for the economy
are shocking. And I'm not quite sure whether that tells
you stocks should be doing X, y or z, but
I don't think it's being factored in. And on the
other hand, if AI is a complete bubble and it
doesn't do anything, and again I'm not taking a view
on that, but as we know, there are strong views
(08:46):
each different way, and certainly some of the ais that
I use are bloody useless. If that is the case,
you know, then that share price isn't justified, and then yeah,
we could potentially be looking at a huge drop in
some stocks and what would be less if that were
to happen, so I look at it in a very
very different way. It will be transformative whatever happens. The
(09:07):
question is who is transformative for and is he transforming
on top or you?
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Michael Every Rabobanks Singapore based global strategists will take a
break on the other side of it. Let's have a
look at the New Zealand domestic economy.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
The best of the country with Rabobank, the bank with
local agri banking experts, passionate about the future of rural communities.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Rubobank, welcome back to the country. We're chatting to Michael
Every Rabobanks Singapore based global strategists. Right, let's have a
look at New Zealand's domestic economy. Now, I don't know
how micro you go on this, Michael, but we've got
an OCR announcement this week, in fact, tomorrow our time,
we're talking about another twenty five point basis strop and
(09:51):
our official cash rate. And that's it. What do you reckon?
What's Rabobank saying? Is this the bottom of the cycle.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Well, it's all pause to always keep in touch with
what our fantastic analyst Ben Picton is saying on that
because the data do change the backdrop changes and his
call can change. But he's he's certainly of the view
that we're very close to the bottom of the cycle.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
We talked about Trump when we were talking about the
international economy. In fact, global anything has got Trump's fingerprints
all over it. Here domestically last week we saw him
drop tariffs on beef and kyw fruit. Does the more
to come.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Well potentially. Look, I mean again, I can talk at
great length about this. When they brought their tariffs in,
they had one particular vision in mind, and now very
very clearly you are starting to see a pivot in that.
And theoretically you've got different schools of tariff thought. One
of them is you tariff everything coming in to generate revenue,
(10:52):
and the other one is why do you tariff things
that you can't produce yourself, Like if you can't grow
key we fruit, you like key we fruit, why are
you boiling to put a tariff on it? But you
do put a tariff on something that is produced by
another country that you can make yourself to encourage substitution
for yours rather than theirs. And in Kiwi fruits there
you go. And beef, of course, the Americans can produce
(11:14):
their own beef. They don't have enough of it, so
that would also make sense for them to lower it
on others temporarily at least until they can manage to
build up their herd. And I believe that, plus the
election politics are trying to make sure that inflation goes
down ahead of November twenty twenty six, you know, is
a strong argument. I think we'll get a lot more
tweaking going forward. The one thing I can tell you
that won't go away a tariffs. They'll state. The question
(11:38):
is exactly on what and a what level.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
We talked about international commodity prices and how New Zealand
fits and are with that, And as you said previously,
a lot of this is going to depend on what
happens geo politically, but how well positioned is New Zealand
to battle its way through twenty twenty six because we've
been waiting since COVID, basically, Michael, every for our economy
(12:02):
to come right.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Well, so's everybody to be abundantly clear. There's no one
who's come out of COVID smiling and saying, you know,
these are the best of times. Everyone's at best saying
these are the best of times. These are the worst
of times, and some people are just saying these are
the worst of times. So you're in the same boat
as everyone else, basically, and it's really really unclear. I will
(12:28):
not be very very clear on this exactly what will
transpire into twenty twenty six, just because the tectonic plates
are moving. We've already addressed the Ukraine issue, which is
huge for AGRI of course, and it's huge for Europe,
and it's huge for the world. But we have tensions
in Asia Pacific between Japan and China as we speak,
(12:49):
and I'm sure those are in the local headlines. We
have tensions between India and Pakistan. They haven't gone away.
We still have the Middle East, you know, on a
nice edge. We have bits of Africa where al kaedl
like they're about to take over control again. We've got
the US using gumboat diplomacy in Latin America and potentially
about to make a move on Venezuela. So we live
(13:09):
in incredibly uncertain times and everything can go perfectly well,
and everything can be sorted out, and things can go
wrong in different regions, and you know, some of them
appear to be moving in the right direction. Some of
them appear to be moving in the wrong direction, but
they're all conflated and they're all related to what America
is doing on tariff, although it's not American tariffs caused
(13:30):
these problems. To be abundantly clear, they're both different, you know,
different sides of the same shape, shall we.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Say, I'm trying to get a good news story out
of you to furnish on, but fundamentally, as food, I
what we do here in New zeal I'm still a
good business to be in.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Well, I mean, I'm tended to say something sarcastic and
say no because nobody needs to eat anymore. Because you
love to ask me that question, Jamie, and every time
I do repeat, people eat right, and that truism never
goes away. But I don't have a more original way
to put it than that. That. Yeah, if everyone listening
regularly hasn't heard me say it before and doesn't think
(14:08):
it every day of their working ways when they're getting
up and producing the great stuff that you guys produced,
then you know, let me say it again, people need
to eat. But above and beyond that, as I said,
as a near term boost, it looks like the price
of diesel might be coming down if things go the
right way, So there you go. That would be a
little to your extra dollars in your pocket.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Well mind you you can only eat if you can
afford to eat, and if AI takes job Michael, eating
might not be an option. But anyhow, but on that
positive note about food being a good business to be
in and diesel prices going down, we will love you
and leave you. Always loved chatting with you today on
the show, and this was one of your least alarmist
chats you've ever had with me. I think you're going
(14:46):
soft in your old age.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
I've done something wrong. Then if you look at everything
is going to the background. If you think it's one
of the soft ones. Yeah, I'm definitely losing my cutting edge.
And that's to try and be sharper next time I
talk to you, lovely to chat Bye bye, Thank you, Bobo.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
The best of the Country with Rubbobag Choose the bank
with one hundred and twenty years global agribusiness experience, Grow
with Rubbobag Fortnightly.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
She writes a column for us on our website The
Country dot co dot am Z. She's one of our
leading primary sector academics, and name is doctor Jacquelin Roweth
and Jacqueline if you don't mind a compliment on a Monday,
this is one of your better efforts. And not that
your other efforts aren't good, but this is good because
you were scratching an itch for me with this column.
You put the boot. You put the boot into the
COP thirty conference that's just finished after eleven days of
(15:31):
blah blah blah, as Greta would put it in Brazil,
what are these achieve?
Speaker 7 (15:37):
That's the issue. Lots of people doing their best to
do good work, but what actually comes out of it
in terms of hard stuff, not very many things, because
it all costs too much. And that's why we have
the fossil fuel people, the big lobby there saying don't
do this, it will screw the global economy. It's why
(15:58):
we've got New Zealand there saying we're doing our very best,
and yes we've put our goals are slightly more practical
than they were before. It doesn't mean we're not still trying,
but that it doesn't always go down very well with
the activists.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Well, fifty six thousand were registered for Brazil. COP twenty
nine had also had fifty six COP twenty eight that
was the mother of all cops eighty four thousand. You
can't get that many people in a room or online
and ever ever come to some consensus.
Speaker 7 (16:31):
No, and you can't even have the accommodation and proper
facilities for them. And so Bilin they were trucking people,
I mean coaching people to other places so that they
could get together. It just becomes a fossilty or bonanza.
I would have thought, with all people being transported about
the globe, I.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Would love to know the carbon footprints of these cop conferences. Look,
we got a fossil award, didn't we in Brazil for
changing our methane targets reductions from twenty four to forty
seven to fourteen to twenty four, which is still going
to be quite onerous but totally sensible.
Speaker 7 (17:09):
Yes, And that was the point the government tries to make,
is that we are trying to provide food to most
of the rest of the world. Ninety five percent of
everything we produce in terms of animal protein is exported,
and of course it doesn't feed the world, but we
produce that food for very low greenhouse gas impacts, and
(17:30):
that makes it quite difficult to do anymore without affecting
food production, and that was the point of the Paris
Agreement in twenty fifteen. We are doing everything we can,
we're maintaining food production, but there is a tipping point
and if we go over that, then the whole of
the economy is affected. And we just have to go
back and say, in New Zealand, what matters to people most,
(17:51):
it's the cost of living and that's food rent, all
of those sorts of things. And actually climate change is
about eighth on the list, not one.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
A bigger.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Is there a bigger punisher in the world than Greta Tonberg?
Speaker 7 (18:08):
How dare you, I guess, stolen my dreams? Well, we
just need to think about what she thought her dreams
really were. Because everybody has the dream of a good life,
a better life, and the parents and the grandparents tried
to make a better life for their children, and they've
given them education if they actually go to school, and
(18:29):
that the education, the science, the engineering, the technology, that
is what is going to make our lives even better.
So let's stick with school and.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Get some details. Well, I reckon, Greta must have bunked
off quite a few days weeks years of school.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
Yes, yes she did, and she's now at far today,
except that of course she's over the holidays. She's been
trying to save warring nations as well. So she is
unusual and she's doing what she thought was right at
the time. But sometimes, just like with pop, we need
to say dunne it darlings or dunne it people. Let's
(19:04):
try a different process for actually getting some agreements about
what we can do for the future.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
I want to quote Paula Bennett when it comes to
Greta zip it sweety. All right, that's my thought, that's
my thoughts on it.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
See you later.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Ohang five The Best of the Country with Rabobank choose
the bank with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Rabobank Welcome, Good morning New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Welcome back to the Best of the Country. I'm Jamie MacKaye.
The show is brought to you by Rabobank. Up next,
Prime Minister Christopher Luxe and caught up with them on
Wednesday show. He'd been up since three point thirty. He'd
been on a conference call about Ukraine. We canvassed all
sorts of topics, including whether Chloe is a genuine contender
to be the next Minister of Finance. I'm going to
(20:02):
wrap it with Jeff Ross, the man behind New Zealand's
first carbon neutral farm, Lake Official One. Anyhow, a lot
of farms already are Lake Harwei station, and he shared
his plan to help fallow farmers monetize their existing wardy
vegetation by attaining carbon credits through the ETS. So those
(20:22):
two well wrap the best of the country. Rabobank's been
going great guns. They were named Bank of the Year
in a research in research group Roy Morgan's New Zealand
Customer Satisfaction Awards for twenty twenty five. They beat nine
other major New Zealand banks to pick up the award
after recording the highest customer satisfaction score of any bank
(20:43):
and two of the four quarters to June twenty twenty
five overall satisfaction rating of eighty five point four percent.
Rabobank also proud to support Surfing for Farmers, which runs
in locations right across New Zealand over the summer months.
Coming to a beach near you, Surfing for Farmers and
encourages farmers to take a couple of hours off each
(21:03):
week to head to the surf to help better manage
stress and improve mental health. Follow the Surfing for Farmers'
Facebook page to stay updated on start dates for the
new season. Up next to the Prime Minister.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
The Best of the Country with Rubbo Bank, The Bank
with local agri banking experts passionate about the future of
rural communities Rubbo.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Bank Wednesdays on the Country. The Prime Minister kicks off
the show and he's already done a day and a
half's work before he goes to air with US three
point thirty. This morning, Christopher Luxen, you were on a
conference call about Ukraine. I hope you didn't let Trump
sell them down the river.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Well basusly, Jamie, good morning, good the bit, We're good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Good to be with you. I don't know what time
of the day it is.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
But you know, I'm part of this coalition of the
willing leaders group that gets together to talk about what
we can do to continue to get towards the peaceful situation,
A just and lasting piece actually is what rafter in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
More. It's really encouraging, though, is that the parties are.
Speaker 8 (22:09):
Talking, they're engaged, and obviously the European partners have a
role to play. The Americans have been instrumental and cack
starting something off, and obviously the ongoing conversation about the
content of that plan, which we'll need to continue to
evolve in subsequent talks.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Well, from talks with a great leader on the world stage,
depending on which opinion you hold of Donald Trump, to
spending time with a great leader domestically here in New Zealand,
Wayne length And, President of Federated Farmers. You and him
are on the road next week.
Speaker 8 (22:39):
Yeah, we are just catching up with farmers in particular.
I've actually hearing to Queenstown today and I'm with farmers
and horticulturists tomorrow actually, which will be good fun and it's.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Just a good chances.
Speaker 8 (22:50):
You know, I love getting out talking to those town halls,
actually getting a sense of what the issues are for farmers.
I think we've made tremendous progress. You know, We've done
a lot of things that the Federator Farmers had in
their election manifesto. That's trying to get rid of the
red tape for farmers, giving the economy moving again for
them in particular, leading us out of the mess that
we've been in.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And yes, there's a good chance catch up.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Yeah, well, you're going to get rid of a lot
of red tape when you get rid of regional councils.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Well, look, I mean, as I said before before Christmas,
we've actually got RIMA reform, and of course we're mentioning
a world where we want forty six percent less consents
out there in the system so that we can actually
get things built in this country.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It's the biggest amount of red tape. Bureaucracy just jammed
this country up. Obviously as part of that as a role.
Speaker 8 (23:36):
You know what happens with regional councils going forward, and
you heard us an ounce yesterday it we think we
don't need regional councils. Therefore the elected officials won't be needed.
And we're actually going to get the district mayors in
those regions to come together and work out what they
do with the resources in the regional councils. But obviously, yeah,
that will be very important.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Are the district councils any smarter than the regional councils?
I know this too much overlap and we've got too
many local body authorities, but have you got this one
the right way round?
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (24:07):
We have because I think you know, you need local
government to be local, and that means district level, and.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
There might be you know, there's already you to be
aware of it.
Speaker 8 (24:15):
There are some district councils that are saying, hey, listen,
it makes more sense for us to coordinate in a
better way around three waters, It makes better sense for
us to consent to coordinate around building code authorities, all
of those kinds of things. If they wish to amalgamate
and move themselves into that place, that's up to them
to do. And those local communities, but they are having
to work together as we deal with a number of
(24:37):
issues that impact a number of districts that are adjacent
to each other. But look, we just have had district councils,
We've had regional councils, we've got central government. You've got
three layers of government, and it's just too much. And
we have to radically simplify the system so that people
can get on get things done on their own property
and you don't need to be dealing with a whole
(24:57):
bunch of different rules this afternoon.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I know you can't comment on it per se, but
we're going to get like a twenty five point or
twenty five basis point drop. It will be welcomed. Do
you get the feeling that this is the end of
the ocr cuts in this cycle and you're happy if
it lands at two point two five percent?
Speaker 8 (25:18):
Well, again, I actually don't know what the number will be.
Obviously the four castes are predicting another twenty five basis points.
I think this is the last meeting before the end
of the year where the committee comes together to look
at interest rates before they look at it again in
the early new year. But again, their statement will be
very interesting today to see how they are reading the
economy and what they're focused on, Jamie a lot is
(25:39):
what's called mid level mid term inflation. So they last
report they sort of expect inflation to still be helping
around that two percent mark, and as a result, that
gives them confidence about you know that that's key input
into the interest rates as.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Well, raising key we save contributions. That's good, But when
are you going to be brave enough, sure enough as
a nation I'm talking about to raise the age of
eligibility or do you have to wait till Winston Pops's
clogs metaphorically of course?
Speaker 8 (26:09):
Well, I think on the increasing Keimi saver contributions.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
That's something we've wanted to do. We Kex started it
off this year, moving it from six to eight percent.
We're doing it gradually. Some employers and employees have time
to adjust. But if you think about one of the
major challenges when the last thirty years compared to countries
that are wealthier than us, like Ireland and Australia and others,
it's the increased level of savings and investments, and that
(26:33):
obviously means it's going to build out much bigger nest
eggs for Kiwi's you know, we were looking at some
examples of twenty one year olds that you could have
another four hundred thousand dollars in their account by the
time they retire, you know, which is fantastic because they
get the compounding effective interest and they're in a saving scheme.
It's really good. It gets people posit for a first
house or and also better retirement income, gives the country
(26:55):
actually pools of capital to invest in infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Because we've now got money saved.
Speaker 8 (26:59):
The country that needs to get a return therefore needs
to get spent on things like infrastructure projects in public
private partnerships. The other thing that we raise about the
retirement dates, we'll look at that as we go to
the election again. But I mean, as I've said before,
we've gone three times the election, say hey listen, New Zealand.
You know we want to have national superannuation. We're not
changing that. We're not means testing it or giving a
(27:21):
heavy asset testing as the Australians do. We think that's
an entitlement. We think everyone deserves to know that's a certainty.
But we are going to need to augment it with
more key savings as well. But on just sixty five
to sixty seven, I mean in two thousand and one
it moved to sixty five, having moved from sixty gradually
over a ten year period. Since two thousand and one,
(27:41):
New Zealand men are living another four years longer, and
already you've got Australia, Canada and UK and sixty seven.
All we're asking for is to move it another two years.
I don't think that's unreasonable, but we'll develop our specific
policies we go to the campaign.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Well, good luck getting that one past the goalie I E.
Winston Paters does you could always do a chippier as
just broaden and inverted commas are the tax space. But
it seems to me that a capital gains tax does
have some political appeal out there.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
I disagree completely everything I've seen as people do not
like us. They really do not like it. And I
was talking to a guy who is a landlord of
a sign writer on the weekend and he was just saying, like,
the signwriter wants to grow his business. It's been actually
going quite well, and he actually wanted to move into
commercial premises.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
By his own get twice the size. But of course
he's going to get here with a twenty eight percent tax.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
So if you're a commercial work operating in your commercial premises,
if you have a key, we say that investments they
have commercial premises, that's where you get hit. But equally,
just think about the trade that's saved up and got
a form. You know, a batch, or someone that kids
that share a property from granddad. Think about the mum
and dad rental investment.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
I know all this, Prime Minister, you're talking to the
converted here, but the polls are telling us that at
least hard work. Are you disagree? I mean, see, the
other question is two thirds of New Zealanders would accept,
according to the polls, the capital gains tax if it
applied only to inflation adjusted gains. Well, if we do that,
we're not going to get any capital gains income.
Speaker 8 (29:13):
Well there you go, right, Hipkins has said he's not
going to make it inflation adjusted. The second thing is
what's the valuation? So all of a sudden, now you've
got to do a calculation of a twenty eight percent
of tax on a commercial building for your small business,
and you're trying to work out all what was the
starting valuation? So What'ship's going to do? Send valuers all
around the country to revalue properties and assets and commercial
buildings in this country?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
How did it all work? I mean?
Speaker 8 (29:35):
And he doesn't know, right, he says, we'll sort of
sort it out in government. We'll tell you what's going
to happen. When they get to government.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
They'll be in partnership with Chloe Swarbrick, who will be
the Finance Minister, and she one have.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
A scare tactical and she will care tactics product you
frightened me mentioned And Chloe is Finance Minister. Barbara Edmonds
will be the Finance Minister.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
Jamie if you want to believe that. My friend that's
great would say to you, look at the focus of
where the greens are going to go. They're going to
tax the absolute for Jesus out of the country. And
I'm telling you, happen to open the door the CGT
and what's the track record last time? Spend more, borrow more,
tax more. That's what you're getting. They haven't learnt up.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Thinks right, Christopher Lux And thanks for your time. Keep
up the hard work on behalf of the nation. That's
been a long day for you. Good luck with the
rest of it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Thanks, Jamie, had a great week the best of the
country with Rubbo back Choose the Bank with one hundred
and twenty years global agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Grow with Rubboback.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Jeff Ross, along with his wife Justine, run Lake Harway Station,
New Zealand's first carbon neutral farm. Jeff, great to have
you back on the country. You're offering a joint venture
or you've set up a joint venture with car fields
called carbon fields, and you want to monetize existing on
farm vegetation such as scrub bush, poplars, willows, plantations, shout abouts,
(30:58):
you name it, so that farmer can get some carbon
credits out of the ets. This looks like a bit
of a one one for me.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon, Jamie.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Yes, I think you've described it pretty well. Look the
backdrop for this actually came from speaking with some of
the team at Carfields where we realize that for a
lot of sheep and beef farmers, returns typically return on
your asset value is pretty low. It's less than two percent.
So we thought, how are we going to add incremental
revenue to a lot of sheep and beef farms. That
(31:30):
was observation one. Observation two was there's been a lot
of pine conversions, too many. In fact, we've lost a
lot of great farmland. So is there a simple, easy,
low friction way for farmers to monetize existing largely native
scrub and bush on their farms? And you know, that's
what we've set up to go about to do.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
So if a farmer wants to clip the ticket on
carbon credits and they want to deal with your company,
because I know you can go through and dependent consultants
as well. You literally offer a service where you just
get a farmer's address or rapid number and you do
everything else for them through AI and satellite mapping, you
name it.
Speaker 9 (32:10):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, look all of us these days,
it seems, are too bloody busy, and you know it's
hard enough getting through your to do list on a
farm as it is without adding another job, which is
foreign to most of us. So that's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
We do the lot.
Speaker 9 (32:24):
All we need is your rapid number and name on
the title. We do all the applications, the mapping, the
changes of vegetation, and the other kind of barrier for
a lot of farms is obviously you know, funds available
to do this, so we don't have any upfront fees,
there's no need to write a check. Rather down the
track once the credits are issued we take a minor
share of the credits, so we're pretty aligned with the
(32:46):
farm and our goal as well. So yeah, it should
be an easy one stop shop where we do the lot,
and not only to start the process off, but year
and year out, so we do it every year on
the farm's behalf and collect the income for them if
they like as well well.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
So without giving away any state secrets. But on a
reasonably sized, extensive farming operation that has lots of natural
woody vegetation. What sort of dollars could you get on
an annual basis.
Speaker 9 (33:13):
Look, we've done farms that are around ten grand a
year in income, to some farms up to around three
hundred to four hundred grand a year. I think is
our biggest one and income. So I think on average
it's about forty grand a year and income. So look
for some that's not life changing, but it is. It's
almost like passive income. You know, you don't need to
drench anything or crutch anything to receive that income. It
(33:35):
simply comes in every year, and it's coming in from
land that in the most cases isn't being grazed anyway.
You know, it's it's pretty marginal, tough stuff, hard to
get stock and hard to get stock out. It's not
producing much grass anyway, So it's better off producing income
via the ets.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
So could carbon credits be the future emperor's new clothes?
If Trump and co. Have their way, carbon credits eventual
be worth nothing.
Speaker 9 (34:02):
Look, the general view, that's a great crystal ball question
which I probably can't answer accurately, But the general view
is the will needs to de carbonize. We do need
some form of mechanic to be able to do that.
The ETS has been around since two thousand and eight.
There's the odd tinkering with it, but it's largely viewed
here that it will continue to be our In fact,
(34:24):
Minister Watt's just reconfirmed it will be our really one
and only main instrument to help our country decarbonize. So
despite what Trump is saying, I suspect it will be,
you know, a major part of the global economy moving forward.
And I think the big opportunity Jamie, if you know,
if we look forward, is New Zealand potentially could be
(34:48):
a net exporter of carbon credits. So rather than perhaps
this crazy talk of importing cheap carbon credits, which doesn't
make sense to anybody, in time, we could actually be
a net export of high integrity New Zealand native farm credits,
which I think would be in high demand globally.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
As New Zealand's first carbon neutral farm. Are you're making
money at Lake Harway Station, I know you've sunk a lot.
Speaker 9 (35:09):
In there, Jeff, Well, we are a lot of people
as said, yes, I guess you know this is a
brighter time. However, I guess for most sheep and beef
farmers particularly you know, as those meat schedules remain high,
but we are And I guess the key key technique
we've used is by marketing our carb and zero or
(35:31):
climate positive walls, so we get a substantial premium for
our marino wall because of our cabin position.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
And I also know as a side hustle you run
like a farm tourism or farm stay business there as well.
On the tightest man in New Zealand, Andy Thompson's daughters
getting married there this weekend. I hope you're not doing
this for nothing. I hope he's going to pay something.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
Well, i'd hope so in time as well.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
That doesn't sound promising.
Speaker 9 (35:57):
That's not sounding promising at the moment. Probably not the
best deal, I dono.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I'd have to say, Well, the best deal was selling
forty two below vodka, wasn't it.
Speaker 9 (36:07):
Look that was a good thing for all shareholders and
forty two blow Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Yeah, And of course you do hold the world record
for having the most viewed country calendar program of all time.
Do you regret the sheep pads?
Speaker 9 (36:23):
Look, I regret that they became a big part of
the story. I think the big part of that story
was that we as farmers in New Zealand need to
try things to get premiums. There's thirty thousand farms in
New Zealand and we all should be looking for innovation
really to drive up our earnings because we're not earning enough.
But there seemed to be a little bit too much
attention on the mattresses and not enough attention on the premiums.
(36:47):
So perhaps if that was our doing, yeah, would regret that.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Well, Jeff ros thanks for being open and honest and
if people want to have a crack at this, it's
money for nothing. The joint venture is called carbon Fields.
Just talk to car Fields about it. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 9 (37:01):
Actually, Jamie, the easiest way is just jump onto carbon
Field stock code dot z and there's a wee form
even I can fill it out and it'll take you
about one minute. And we just need your rapid number,
your name and contact details. So just have a look
at Carbonfield stock code dot in Z.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Well, I think I might have to send you a
bill now there we go, see you later, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Thanks Jamie.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Rabobank, Oh better land. We're all my brothers walking and
tell me why.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Jeff Ross wrapping the best of the country. Good morning,
my name is Jamie McKay. Each and every is Saturday Morning.
Here on news Talk S'DB, we play you the best
bits of our weekdays show twelve to one courtesy a Rabobank.
We're trying our very best to grow a better New
Zealand together. Good news on the interest rate front this week,
we'll take it two point two five percent for the
(37:59):
official cashraw.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
That's me.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
I'm done and dusted. I'm out of here. No rugby
to watch this weekend. What the hell are we going
to do? Might have to do some gardening. Heaven help
me anyhow. To all you farmers out there, I know
you'll be working flat out all weekend. You keep going
at the backbone of the economy. I'm going to leave
you with an Elvis our ballad.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
What that time?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
We're lasting a crown.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
With too majery. We're trapped in a world that's trouble
with me.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Quite as long.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
As a man a string to.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
You can redeem me soul.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Deep in bud, there's a tripling.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Question. Still, I am sure.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Let the answers. Answer is gonna call somehow out there
over there's a backering candle.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
And while I can't feed, while.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I can't talk, while I can't stand, while I can't walk,
while I.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Can't dream, for me on my dream true right now,
dragon running, he
The best of the country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Grow with Rabobank, we'd.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Ever crown, I can't walk out.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
We got a.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
Might pay today and good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay.
This is the best of the country. Each and every
Saturday morning here on News Talks THE'DB between six and seven,
we play you the best bits of our weekday show
twelve to one, and we do so courtesy of Rabobank.
We're growing a better New Zealand together. Kicking it off
with the King Elvis. We've got the King of Economic
commentary kicking off our show today, Michael Every Rabobanks Singapore
(00:46):
based global strategists having a look at not only the
global economy, but New Zealand's domestic economy. And a week
where we saw the official cash rate drop to probably
the bottom of this interest rate. Doctor Jacqueline Rowe with
one of our leading primary sector academics, takes Climate change
or took the Climate Change Talk Fest also known as
(01:10):
COP thirty to task. Now you look at the carbon
footprint of that event, fifty six thousand people and tell
me tell me how that saves the planet. Christopher Luxen,
Prime Minister, has a regular slot on the show on Wednesdays.
He at a very early start, will tell you about
that and One of the more interesting interviews this week
was with Jeff Ross, the man behind New Zealand's first
(01:32):
carbon neutral farm. Along with his wife Justine, they run
and own Lake harwea station. He shared his plan to
help fallow farmers monetize their existing woody vegetation by attaining
carbon credits through the ETES. Yeah, money for jam. It's
all on the best of the country and it's all
brought to you by Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Rabobank always love chatting to this man on the country,
even if I don't always like the message. His name
is Michael Every, Rabobanks, Singapore based global strategist. Last week,
Rabobank came out with its agri Commodity outlook for twenty
twenty six. The headline more than just supply and Demand
factors shaping global agriculture and twenty twenty six with geopolitics
(02:31):
set to play a crucial role China via the USA. Michael,
every surprise surprise.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
Yes, absolutely well, I'd like to think I probably had
a little bit of input into that, And by the way,
it was completely correct, because just after it came out,
we have had the surprising news that we have a
potential Ukraine peace deal on the table. Even though the
form of it is very contentious and the final form
(03:00):
of it is unclear, it does appear as if something
along those lines is going to transpire, and potentially as
soon as Thursday.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
But as Trump selling U crying out.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
That's a really loaded question because he certainly isn't prepared
to keep backing Ukraine the way it's being backed so far.
That's abundantly clear he is forcing a settlement if we
see the terms finally being what we've seen floated so far,
(03:36):
which is to say that will withhold military aid, will
withhold intel, and of course we will hold funding. If
you're not going to sign up for this, that is
you know, basically saying sign here, thank you very much.
But at the same time, if America is not in
a position to continue doing more than that in the
longer run, and Europe is unable to stand up and
fill the gap, what other option was there on the table.
(03:59):
So I'm not trying to take a strong editorial stance
one way or the other. It's undeniable the case that
America is forcing Ukraine to sign. If that is the
final version of the deal. It does also, however, guarantee
Ukraine's sovereignty. It does have a defense guarantee, and it
does have an economic guarantee in it to try and
incentivize everybody to benefit from peace rather than war. So
(04:20):
it's not completely one sided, but it is very much
not what Ukraine wanted.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
Rabobank's agricommodity outlook that I've referenced for twenty twenty six,
one of the interesting numbers I looked at was GDP
growth on a global stage two point nine percent this year,
easing to two point seven percent and twenty twenty six.
What happened to the world economy is coming right?
Speaker 6 (04:44):
Well. I don't want to say anything negative about anyone
who put in the hard work to produce those numbers,
but I don't think they really tell much of a story.
The GDP in itself as a concept at a national
level is something I don't take very seriously. I want
to be abundantly clear there. It was set up, you know,
(05:05):
by the by the Americans in World War two to
try and measure military output, and somehow we've expanded it
to explain anything and everything going on around us. And
I think it knows the price of everything and the
value of nothing that's GDP for any national country. And
then you've got the questions of, you know, the quality
of the data, which is getting worse and worse as
everything changes structurally. So the world economy then incorporates loads
of economies who just produce really dodgy numbers, you know,
(05:29):
because you're you're doing Tom, Dick and Harry rather than
just just the West. And I really really would not
be trading that as a number, not just from Rabbi,
but I mean from anyone at all, you know, as
a real directionality. I'm sure anyone who's out there on
the farm has got a far better idea of what
actual supply and demand looks like than someone sitting behind
(05:50):
a spreadsheets. So let me try to say that to,
you know, to put a positive spin on it.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
What do you think the world commodity outlook will be
for twenty twenty six From a New Zealand point of view,
and we're going to focus more in on New Zealand
on the sick and part of this interview. But do
you see commodity prices across the globe holding up?
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Well, it really depends on the geoppedical outlook of That's
what we said in the Heltlook that we published, because
for example, if we get this Russia deal, if Russia
is reincorporated into the global economy, all sanctions are dropped,
you know, you have a very different backdrop to the
one that would have been presumed a week ago, where
that wasn't the case. You know, there are winners and
(06:30):
losers within that, and it's too complex to unpack here
now I'm afraid on the call exactly who wins and
who loses. But one really easy point that you can
make is that it's definitely going to start to affect
things like diesel prices, which is good for farmers because
obviously diesel's used on the farm. If Russia and Ukraine
are no longer blowing up each other's refineries and energy supplies,
(06:51):
and if Russia sanctions are lifted on Russian diesel, that's
going to get that much cheaper everywhere, which is a
real boost and again goes to show how the numbers
that predict confidently will happen next year can change, you know,
with one political decision. So remains to be seen. But
commodities are crucially regardless of that particular backdrop of that story,
(07:12):
very very much in the eye of the storm. I mean,
these aren't ones that New Zealand specializes in, for example,
the rare earth that we read about all the time.
But commodities run through the overall geopolitical architecture like your
you know the name of the holiday resort you go
to through a stick of rock, thinking about you know
what seaside towns in the UK used to be like.
So that story isn't going to go away.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
Just a final comment from you, Michael every on the
equity markets, do you buy into this AI bubble burst?
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Well, I don't talk equity. I want to be abundantly clear.
What I can mention just in terms of the concept
of AI is I don't think people understand the totality
of what we're talking about here. Because if AI does
everything that it promises, well, no one's going to have
(08:04):
a job. It's as simple as that we're going to
have miraculous breakthroughs in areas that we've never had them
in before, and we're close for that from what I see.
You know, in areas like mathematics and physics, we can
really really push the envelope. But in terms of you know,
your mid level white colored jobs, enormous numbers of them
can be just swallowed up by technology and an a
shorter timeframe than people realize. And if you think people
(08:26):
are young people are unhappy now because housing so expensive,
we'll try telling them they'll never get a job on top.
So you know, the implications for that for the economy
are shocking. And I'm not quite sure whether that tells
you stocks should be doing X, y or z, but
I don't think it's being factored in. And on the
other hand, if AI is a complete bubble and it
doesn't do anything, and again I'm not taking a view
on that, but as we know, there are strong views
(08:46):
each different way, and certainly some of the ais that
I use are bloody useless. If that is the case,
you know, then that share price isn't justified, and then yeah,
we could potentially be looking at a huge drop in
some stocks and what would be less if that were
to happen, so I look at it in a very
very different way. It will be transformative whatever happens. The
(09:07):
question is who is transformative for and is he transforming
on top or you?
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Michael Every Rabobanks Singapore based global strategists will take a
break on the other side of it. Let's have a
look at the New Zealand domestic economy.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
The best of the country with Rabobank, the bank with
local agri banking experts, passionate about the future of rural communities.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Rubobank, welcome back to the country. We're chatting to Michael
Every Rabobanks Singapore based global strategists. Right, let's have a
look at New Zealand's domestic economy. Now, I don't know
how micro you go on this, Michael, but we've got
an OCR announcement this week, in fact, tomorrow our time,
we're talking about another twenty five point basis strop and
(09:51):
our official cash rate. And that's it. What do you reckon?
What's Rabobank saying? Is this the bottom of the cycle.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Well, it's all pause to always keep in touch with
what our fantastic analyst Ben Picton is saying on that
because the data do change the backdrop changes and his
call can change. But he's he's certainly of the view
that we're very close to the bottom of the cycle.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
We talked about Trump when we were talking about the
international economy. In fact, global anything has got Trump's fingerprints
all over it. Here domestically last week we saw him
drop tariffs on beef and kyw fruit. Does the more
to come.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
Well potentially. Look, I mean again, I can talk at
great length about this. When they brought their tariffs in,
they had one particular vision in mind, and now very
very clearly you are starting to see a pivot in that.
And theoretically you've got different schools of tariff thought. One
of them is you tariff everything coming in to generate revenue,
(10:52):
and the other one is why do you tariff things
that you can't produce yourself, Like if you can't grow
key we fruit, you like key we fruit, why are
you boiling to put a tariff on it? But you
do put a tariff on something that is produced by
another country that you can make yourself to encourage substitution
for yours rather than theirs. And in Kiwi fruits there
you go. And beef, of course, the Americans can produce
(11:14):
their own beef. They don't have enough of it, so
that would also make sense for them to lower it
on others temporarily at least until they can manage to
build up their herd. And I believe that, plus the
election politics are trying to make sure that inflation goes
down ahead of November twenty twenty six, you know, is
a strong argument. I think we'll get a lot more
tweaking going forward. The one thing I can tell you
that won't go away a tariffs. They'll state. The question
(11:38):
is exactly on what and a what level.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
We talked about international commodity prices and how New Zealand
fits and are with that, And as you said previously,
a lot of this is going to depend on what
happens geo politically, but how well positioned is New Zealand
to battle its way through twenty twenty six because we've
been waiting since COVID, basically, Michael, every for our economy
(12:02):
to come right.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Well, so's everybody to be abundantly clear. There's no one
who's come out of COVID smiling and saying, you know,
these are the best of times. Everyone's at best saying
these are the best of times. These are the worst
of times, and some people are just saying these are
the worst of times. So you're in the same boat
as everyone else, basically, and it's really really unclear. I will
(12:28):
not be very very clear on this exactly what will
transpire into twenty twenty six, just because the tectonic plates
are moving. We've already addressed the Ukraine issue, which is
huge for AGRI of course, and it's huge for Europe,
and it's huge for the world. But we have tensions
in Asia Pacific between Japan and China as we speak,
(12:49):
and I'm sure those are in the local headlines. We
have tensions between India and Pakistan. They haven't gone away.
We still have the Middle East, you know, on a
nice edge. We have bits of Africa where al kaedl
like they're about to take over control again. We've got
the US using gumboat diplomacy in Latin America and potentially
about to make a move on Venezuela. So we live
(13:09):
in incredibly uncertain times and everything can go perfectly well,
and everything can be sorted out, and things can go
wrong in different regions, and you know, some of them
appear to be moving in the right direction. Some of
them appear to be moving in the wrong direction, but
they're all conflated and they're all related to what America
is doing on tariff, although it's not American tariffs caused
(13:30):
these problems. To be abundantly clear, they're both different, you know,
different sides of the same shape, shall we.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Say, I'm trying to get a good news story out
of you to furnish on, but fundamentally, as food, I
what we do here in New zeal I'm still a
good business to be in.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Well, I mean, I'm tended to say something sarcastic and
say no because nobody needs to eat anymore. Because you
love to ask me that question, Jamie, and every time
I do repeat, people eat right, and that truism never
goes away. But I don't have a more original way
to put it than that. That. Yeah, if everyone listening
regularly hasn't heard me say it before and doesn't think
(14:08):
it every day of their working ways when they're getting
up and producing the great stuff that you guys produced,
then you know, let me say it again, people need
to eat. But above and beyond that, as I said,
as a near term boost, it looks like the price
of diesel might be coming down if things go the
right way, So there you go. That would be a
little to your extra dollars in your pocket.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Well mind you you can only eat if you can
afford to eat, and if AI takes job Michael, eating
might not be an option. But anyhow, but on that
positive note about food being a good business to be
in and diesel prices going down, we will love you
and leave you. Always loved chatting with you today on
the show, and this was one of your least alarmist
chats you've ever had with me. I think you're going
(14:46):
soft in your old age.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
I've done something wrong. Then if you look at everything
is going to the background. If you think it's one
of the soft ones. Yeah, I'm definitely losing my cutting edge.
And that's to try and be sharper next time I
talk to you, lovely to chat Bye bye, Thank you, Bobo.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
The best of the Country with Rubbobag Choose the bank
with one hundred and twenty years global agribusiness experience, Grow
with Rubbobag Fortnightly.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
She writes a column for us on our website The
Country dot co dot am Z. She's one of our
leading primary sector academics, and name is doctor Jacquelin Roweth
and Jacqueline if you don't mind a compliment on a Monday,
this is one of your better efforts. And not that
your other efforts aren't good, but this is good because
you were scratching an itch for me with this column.
You put the boot. You put the boot into the
COP thirty conference that's just finished after eleven days of
(15:31):
blah blah blah, as Greta would put it in Brazil,
what are these achieve?
Speaker 7 (15:37):
That's the issue. Lots of people doing their best to
do good work, but what actually comes out of it
in terms of hard stuff, not very many things, because
it all costs too much. And that's why we have
the fossil fuel people, the big lobby there saying don't
do this, it will screw the global economy. It's why
(15:58):
we've got New Zealand there saying we're doing our very best,
and yes we've put our goals are slightly more practical
than they were before. It doesn't mean we're not still trying,
but that it doesn't always go down very well with
the activists.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Well, fifty six thousand were registered for Brazil. COP twenty
nine had also had fifty six COP twenty eight that
was the mother of all cops eighty four thousand. You
can't get that many people in a room or online
and ever ever come to some consensus.
Speaker 7 (16:31):
No, and you can't even have the accommodation and proper
facilities for them. And so Bilin they were trucking people,
I mean coaching people to other places so that they
could get together. It just becomes a fossilty or bonanza.
I would have thought, with all people being transported about
the globe, I.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Would love to know the carbon footprints of these cop conferences. Look,
we got a fossil award, didn't we in Brazil for
changing our methane targets reductions from twenty four to forty
seven to fourteen to twenty four, which is still going
to be quite onerous but totally sensible.
Speaker 7 (17:09):
Yes, And that was the point the government tries to make,
is that we are trying to provide food to most
of the rest of the world. Ninety five percent of
everything we produce in terms of animal protein is exported,
and of course it doesn't feed the world, but we
produce that food for very low greenhouse gas impacts, and
(17:30):
that makes it quite difficult to do anymore without affecting
food production, and that was the point of the Paris
Agreement in twenty fifteen. We are doing everything we can,
we're maintaining food production, but there is a tipping point
and if we go over that, then the whole of
the economy is affected. And we just have to go
back and say, in New Zealand, what matters to people most,
(17:51):
it's the cost of living and that's food rent, all
of those sorts of things. And actually climate change is
about eighth on the list, not one.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
A bigger.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Is there a bigger punisher in the world than Greta Tonberg?
Speaker 7 (18:08):
How dare you, I guess, stolen my dreams? Well, we
just need to think about what she thought her dreams
really were. Because everybody has the dream of a good life,
a better life, and the parents and the grandparents tried
to make a better life for their children, and they've
given them education if they actually go to school, and
(18:29):
that the education, the science, the engineering, the technology, that
is what is going to make our lives even better.
So let's stick with school and.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Get some details. Well, I reckon, Greta must have bunked
off quite a few days weeks years of school.
Speaker 7 (18:43):
Yes, yes she did, and she's now at far today,
except that of course she's over the holidays. She's been
trying to save warring nations as well. So she is
unusual and she's doing what she thought was right at
the time. But sometimes, just like with pop, we need
to say dunne it darlings or dunne it people. Let's
(19:04):
try a different process for actually getting some agreements about
what we can do for the future.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
I want to quote Paula Bennett when it comes to
Greta zip it sweety. All right, that's my thought, that's
my thoughts on it.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
See you later.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Ohang five The Best of the Country with Rabobank choose
the bank with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Rabobank Welcome, Good morning New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Welcome back to the Best of the Country. I'm Jamie MacKaye.
The show is brought to you by Rabobank. Up next,
Prime Minister Christopher Luxe and caught up with them on
Wednesday show. He'd been up since three point thirty. He'd
been on a conference call about Ukraine. We canvassed all
sorts of topics, including whether Chloe is a genuine contender
to be the next Minister of Finance. I'm going to
(20:02):
wrap it with Jeff Ross, the man behind New Zealand's
first carbon neutral farm, Lake Official One. Anyhow, a lot
of farms already are Lake Harwei station, and he shared
his plan to help fallow farmers monetize their existing wardy
vegetation by attaining carbon credits through the ETS. So those
(20:22):
two well wrap the best of the country. Rabobank's been
going great guns. They were named Bank of the Year
in a research in research group Roy Morgan's New Zealand
Customer Satisfaction Awards for twenty twenty five. They beat nine
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after recording the highest customer satisfaction score of any bank
(20:43):
and two of the four quarters to June twenty twenty
five overall satisfaction rating of eighty five point four percent.
Rabobank also proud to support Surfing for Farmers, which runs
in locations right across New Zealand over the summer months.
Coming to a beach near you, Surfing for Farmers and
encourages farmers to take a couple of hours off each
(21:03):
week to head to the surf to help better manage
stress and improve mental health. Follow the Surfing for Farmers'
Facebook page to stay updated on start dates for the
new season. Up next to the Prime Minister.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
The Best of the Country with Rubbo Bank, The Bank
with local agri banking experts passionate about the future of
rural communities Rubbo.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Bank Wednesdays on the Country. The Prime Minister kicks off
the show and he's already done a day and a
half's work before he goes to air with US three
point thirty. This morning, Christopher Luxen, you were on a
conference call about Ukraine. I hope you didn't let Trump
sell them down the river.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Well basusly, Jamie, good morning, good the bit, We're good afternoon.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Good to be with you. I don't know what time
of the day it is.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
But you know, I'm part of this coalition of the
willing leaders group that gets together to talk about what
we can do to continue to get towards the peaceful situation,
A just and lasting piece actually is what rafter in Ukraine.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
More. It's really encouraging, though, is that the parties are.
Speaker 8 (22:09):
Talking, they're engaged, and obviously the European partners have a
role to play. The Americans have been instrumental and cack
starting something off, and obviously the ongoing conversation about the
content of that plan, which we'll need to continue to
evolve in subsequent talks.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
Well, from talks with a great leader on the world stage,
depending on which opinion you hold of Donald Trump, to
spending time with a great leader domestically here in New Zealand,
Wayne length And, President of Federated Farmers. You and him
are on the road next week.
Speaker 8 (22:39):
Yeah, we are just catching up with farmers in particular.
I've actually hearing to Queenstown today and I'm with farmers
and horticulturists tomorrow actually, which will be good fun and it's.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Just a good chances.
Speaker 8 (22:50):
You know, I love getting out talking to those town halls,
actually getting a sense of what the issues are for farmers.
I think we've made tremendous progress. You know, We've done
a lot of things that the Federator Farmers had in
their election manifesto. That's trying to get rid of the
red tape for farmers, giving the economy moving again for
them in particular, leading us out of the mess that
we've been in.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And yes, there's a good chance catch up.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
Yeah, well, you're going to get rid of a lot
of red tape when you get rid of regional councils.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
Well, look, I mean, as I said before before Christmas,
we've actually got RIMA reform, and of course we're mentioning
a world where we want forty six percent less consents
out there in the system so that we can actually
get things built in this country.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It's the biggest amount of red tape. Bureaucracy just jammed
this country up. Obviously as part of that as a role.
Speaker 8 (23:36):
You know what happens with regional councils going forward, and
you heard us an ounce yesterday it we think we
don't need regional councils. Therefore the elected officials won't be needed.
And we're actually going to get the district mayors in
those regions to come together and work out what they
do with the resources in the regional councils. But obviously, yeah,
that will be very important.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Are the district councils any smarter than the regional councils?
I know this too much overlap and we've got too
many local body authorities, but have you got this one
the right way round?
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (24:07):
We have because I think you know, you need local
government to be local, and that means district level, and.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
There might be you know, there's already you to be
aware of it.
Speaker 8 (24:15):
There are some district councils that are saying, hey, listen,
it makes more sense for us to coordinate in a
better way around three waters, It makes better sense for
us to consent to coordinate around building code authorities, all
of those kinds of things. If they wish to amalgamate
and move themselves into that place, that's up to them
to do. And those local communities, but they are having
to work together as we deal with a number of
(24:37):
issues that impact a number of districts that are adjacent
to each other. But look, we just have had district councils,
We've had regional councils, we've got central government. You've got
three layers of government, and it's just too much. And
we have to radically simplify the system so that people
can get on get things done on their own property
and you don't need to be dealing with a whole
(24:57):
bunch of different rules this afternoon.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I know you can't comment on it per se, but
we're going to get like a twenty five point or
twenty five basis point drop. It will be welcomed. Do
you get the feeling that this is the end of
the ocr cuts in this cycle and you're happy if
it lands at two point two five percent?
Speaker 8 (25:18):
Well, again, I actually don't know what the number will be.
Obviously the four castes are predicting another twenty five basis points.
I think this is the last meeting before the end
of the year where the committee comes together to look
at interest rates before they look at it again in
the early new year. But again, their statement will be
very interesting today to see how they are reading the
economy and what they're focused on, Jamie a lot is
(25:39):
what's called mid level mid term inflation. So they last
report they sort of expect inflation to still be helping
around that two percent mark, and as a result, that
gives them confidence about you know that that's key input
into the interest rates as.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Well, raising key we save contributions. That's good, But when
are you going to be brave enough, sure enough as
a nation I'm talking about to raise the age of
eligibility or do you have to wait till Winston Pops's
clogs metaphorically of course?
Speaker 8 (26:09):
Well, I think on the increasing Keimi saver contributions.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
That's something we've wanted to do. We Kex started it
off this year, moving it from six to eight percent.
We're doing it gradually. Some employers and employees have time
to adjust. But if you think about one of the
major challenges when the last thirty years compared to countries
that are wealthier than us, like Ireland and Australia and others,
it's the increased level of savings and investments, and that
(26:33):
obviously means it's going to build out much bigger nest
eggs for Kiwi's you know, we were looking at some
examples of twenty one year olds that you could have
another four hundred thousand dollars in their account by the
time they retire, you know, which is fantastic because they
get the compounding effective interest and they're in a saving scheme.
It's really good. It gets people posit for a first
house or and also better retirement income, gives the country
(26:55):
actually pools of capital to invest in infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Because we've now got money saved.
Speaker 8 (26:59):
The country that needs to get a return therefore needs
to get spent on things like infrastructure projects in public
private partnerships. The other thing that we raise about the
retirement dates, we'll look at that as we go to
the election again. But I mean, as I've said before,
we've gone three times the election, say hey listen, New Zealand.
You know we want to have national superannuation. We're not
changing that. We're not means testing it or giving a
(27:21):
heavy asset testing as the Australians do. We think that's
an entitlement. We think everyone deserves to know that's a certainty.
But we are going to need to augment it with
more key savings as well. But on just sixty five
to sixty seven, I mean in two thousand and one
it moved to sixty five, having moved from sixty gradually
over a ten year period. Since two thousand and one,
(27:41):
New Zealand men are living another four years longer, and
already you've got Australia, Canada and UK and sixty seven.
All we're asking for is to move it another two years.
I don't think that's unreasonable, but we'll develop our specific
policies we go to the campaign.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
Well, good luck getting that one past the goalie I E.
Winston Paters does you could always do a chippier as
just broaden and inverted commas are the tax space. But
it seems to me that a capital gains tax does
have some political appeal out there.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
I disagree completely everything I've seen as people do not
like us. They really do not like it. And I
was talking to a guy who is a landlord of
a sign writer on the weekend and he was just saying, like,
the signwriter wants to grow his business. It's been actually
going quite well, and he actually wanted to move into
commercial premises.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
By his own get twice the size. But of course
he's going to get here with a twenty eight percent tax.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
So if you're a commercial work operating in your commercial premises,
if you have a key, we say that investments they
have commercial premises, that's where you get hit. But equally,
just think about the trade that's saved up and got
a form. You know, a batch, or someone that kids
that share a property from granddad. Think about the mum
and dad rental investment.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
I know all this, Prime Minister, you're talking to the
converted here, but the polls are telling us that at
least hard work. Are you disagree? I mean, see, the
other question is two thirds of New Zealanders would accept,
according to the polls, the capital gains tax if it
applied only to inflation adjusted gains. Well, if we do that,
we're not going to get any capital gains income.
Speaker 8 (29:13):
Well there you go, right, Hipkins has said he's not
going to make it inflation adjusted. The second thing is
what's the valuation? So all of a sudden, now you've
got to do a calculation of a twenty eight percent
of tax on a commercial building for your small business,
and you're trying to work out all what was the
starting valuation? So What'ship's going to do? Send valuers all
around the country to revalue properties and assets and commercial
buildings in this country?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
How did it all work? I mean?
Speaker 8 (29:35):
And he doesn't know, right, he says, we'll sort of
sort it out in government. We'll tell you what's going
to happen. When they get to government.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
They'll be in partnership with Chloe Swarbrick, who will be
the Finance Minister, and she one have.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
A scare tactical and she will care tactics product you
frightened me mentioned And Chloe is Finance Minister. Barbara Edmonds
will be the Finance Minister.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
Jamie if you want to believe that. My friend that's
great would say to you, look at the focus of
where the greens are going to go. They're going to
tax the absolute for Jesus out of the country. And
I'm telling you, happen to open the door the CGT
and what's the track record last time? Spend more, borrow more,
tax more. That's what you're getting. They haven't learnt up.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Thinks right, Christopher Lux And thanks for your time. Keep
up the hard work on behalf of the nation. That's
been a long day for you. Good luck with the
rest of it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Thanks, Jamie, had a great week the best of the
country with Rubbo back Choose the Bank with one hundred
and twenty years global agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Grow with Rubboback.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Jeff Ross, along with his wife Justine, run Lake Harway Station,
New Zealand's first carbon neutral farm. Jeff, great to have
you back on the country. You're offering a joint venture
or you've set up a joint venture with car fields
called carbon fields, and you want to monetize existing on
farm vegetation such as scrub bush, poplars, willows, plantations, shout abouts,
(30:58):
you name it, so that farmer can get some carbon
credits out of the ets. This looks like a bit
of a one one for me.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Good afternoon, Good afternoon, Jamie.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Yes, I think you've described it pretty well. Look the
backdrop for this actually came from speaking with some of
the team at Carfields where we realize that for a
lot of sheep and beef farmers, returns typically return on
your asset value is pretty low. It's less than two percent.
So we thought, how are we going to add incremental
revenue to a lot of sheep and beef farms. That
(31:30):
was observation one. Observation two was there's been a lot
of pine conversions, too many. In fact, we've lost a
lot of great farmland. So is there a simple, easy,
low friction way for farmers to monetize existing largely native
scrub and bush on their farms? And you know, that's
what we've set up to go about to do.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
So if a farmer wants to clip the ticket on
carbon credits and they want to deal with your company,
because I know you can go through and dependent consultants
as well. You literally offer a service where you just
get a farmer's address or rapid number and you do
everything else for them through AI and satellite mapping, you
name it.
Speaker 9 (32:10):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, look all of us these days,
it seems, are too bloody busy, and you know it's
hard enough getting through your to do list on a
farm as it is without adding another job, which is
foreign to most of us. So that's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
We do the lot.
Speaker 9 (32:24):
All we need is your rapid number and name on
the title. We do all the applications, the mapping, the
changes of vegetation, and the other kind of barrier for
a lot of farms is obviously you know, funds available
to do this, so we don't have any upfront fees,
there's no need to write a check. Rather down the
track once the credits are issued we take a minor
share of the credits, so we're pretty aligned with the
(32:46):
farm and our goal as well. So yeah, it should
be an easy one stop shop where we do the lot,
and not only to start the process off, but year
and year out, so we do it every year on
the farm's behalf and collect the income for them if
they like as well well.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
So without giving away any state secrets. But on a
reasonably sized, extensive farming operation that has lots of natural
woody vegetation. What sort of dollars could you get on
an annual basis.
Speaker 9 (33:13):
Look, we've done farms that are around ten grand a
year in income, to some farms up to around three
hundred to four hundred grand a year. I think is
our biggest one and income. So I think on average
it's about forty grand a year and income. So look
for some that's not life changing, but it is. It's
almost like passive income. You know, you don't need to
drench anything or crutch anything to receive that income. It
(33:35):
simply comes in every year, and it's coming in from
land that in the most cases isn't being grazed anyway.
You know, it's it's pretty marginal, tough stuff, hard to
get stock and hard to get stock out. It's not
producing much grass anyway, So it's better off producing income
via the ets.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
So could carbon credits be the future emperor's new clothes?
If Trump and co. Have their way, carbon credits eventual
be worth nothing.
Speaker 9 (34:02):
Look, the general view, that's a great crystal ball question
which I probably can't answer accurately, But the general view
is the will needs to de carbonize. We do need
some form of mechanic to be able to do that.
The ETS has been around since two thousand and eight.
There's the odd tinkering with it, but it's largely viewed
here that it will continue to be our In fact,
(34:24):
Minister Watt's just reconfirmed it will be our really one
and only main instrument to help our country decarbonize. So
despite what Trump is saying, I suspect it will be,
you know, a major part of the global economy moving forward.
And I think the big opportunity Jamie, if you know,
if we look forward, is New Zealand potentially could be
(34:48):
a net exporter of carbon credits. So rather than perhaps
this crazy talk of importing cheap carbon credits, which doesn't
make sense to anybody, in time, we could actually be
a net export of high integrity New Zealand native farm credits,
which I think would be in high demand globally.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
As New Zealand's first carbon neutral farm. Are you're making
money at Lake Harway Station, I know you've sunk a lot.
Speaker 9 (35:09):
In there, Jeff, Well, we are a lot of people
as said, yes, I guess you know this is a
brighter time. However, I guess for most sheep and beef
farmers particularly you know, as those meat schedules remain high,
but we are And I guess the key key technique
we've used is by marketing our carb and zero or
(35:31):
climate positive walls, so we get a substantial premium for
our marino wall because of our cabin position.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
And I also know as a side hustle you run
like a farm tourism or farm stay business there as well.
On the tightest man in New Zealand, Andy Thompson's daughters
getting married there this weekend. I hope you're not doing
this for nothing. I hope he's going to pay something.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
Well, i'd hope so in time as well.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
That doesn't sound promising.
Speaker 9 (35:57):
That's not sounding promising at the moment. Probably not the
best deal, I dono.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
I'd have to say, Well, the best deal was selling
forty two below vodka, wasn't it.
Speaker 9 (36:07):
Look that was a good thing for all shareholders and
forty two blow Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Yeah, And of course you do hold the world record
for having the most viewed country calendar program of all time.
Do you regret the sheep pads?
Speaker 9 (36:23):
Look, I regret that they became a big part of
the story. I think the big part of that story
was that we as farmers in New Zealand need to
try things to get premiums. There's thirty thousand farms in
New Zealand and we all should be looking for innovation
really to drive up our earnings because we're not earning enough.
But there seemed to be a little bit too much
attention on the mattresses and not enough attention on the premiums.
(36:47):
So perhaps if that was our doing, yeah, would regret that.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Well, Jeff ros thanks for being open and honest and
if people want to have a crack at this, it's
money for nothing. The joint venture is called carbon Fields.
Just talk to car Fields about it. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 9 (37:01):
Actually, Jamie, the easiest way is just jump onto carbon
Field stock code dot z and there's a wee form
even I can fill it out and it'll take you
about one minute. And we just need your rapid number,
your name and contact details. So just have a look
at Carbonfield stock code dot in Z.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Well, I think I might have to send you a
bill now there we go, see you later, Jeff.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Thanks Jamie.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The best of the country with Rabobank. Choose the bank
with a huge network of progressive farming clients.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Rabobank, Oh better land. We're all my brothers walking and
tell me why.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Jeff Ross wrapping the best of the country. Good morning,
my name is Jamie McKay. Each and every is Saturday Morning.
Here on news Talk S'DB, we play you the best
bits of our weekdays show twelve to one courtesy a Rabobank.
We're trying our very best to grow a better New
Zealand together. Good news on the interest rate front this week,
we'll take it two point two five percent for the
(37:59):
official cashraw.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
That's me.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
I'm done and dusted. I'm out of here. No rugby
to watch this weekend. What the hell are we going
to do? Might have to do some gardening. Heaven help
me anyhow. To all you farmers out there, I know
you'll be working flat out all weekend. You keep going
at the backbone of the economy. I'm going to leave
you with an Elvis our ballad.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
What that time?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
We're lasting a crown.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
With too majery. We're trapped in a world that's trouble
with me.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Quite as long.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
As a man a string to.
Speaker 5 (38:51):
You can redeem me soul.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Deep in bud, there's a tripling.
Speaker 6 (39:07):
Question. Still, I am sure.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Let the answers. Answer is gonna call somehow out there
over there's a backering candle.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
And while I can't feed, while.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I can't talk, while I can't stand, while I can't walk,
while I.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Can't dream, for me on my dream true right now,
dragon running, he
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Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.