The Country 02/07/24: Todd McClay talks to Jamie Mackay

The Minister of Agriculture and Trade kicked off the Primary Industries New Zealand Summit this morning. He talks about getting Wellington out of farming and what a Donald Trump presidency could mean for our trade. He also comments on how important New Zealand’s innovative apple packing and processing machinery is to the US, what the tariff-free EU agreement is worth to kiwifruit growers, and working on a trade deal with India.
Finally, McClay ponders getting New Zealand to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and Winston Peters’ performance as Minister of Foreign Affairs.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Agriculture and Trade Minister Todd McLay do you agree with
Kerry that we need to get policy right for farmers.
I must admit you guys are doing your best.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well, Jamie Hay, great to be here in person with you,
and I absolutely do you know. Policy can help, but
often it hinders and gets in the way, and it's
a little bit like regulation. We need rules in New Zealand,
there's no question about that, but too many rules that
cost money and become bureaucratic. I mean farmers have to
sit in the Home Office filling up forms all the time.

(00:29):
Is a waste of everybody's time. So what we actually
need is good policy to back rural New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well one of your statements and at court my eye
this morning or court my ears, you want to get
Wellington out of farming.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
And isn't that a funny thing to say? As Minister
of Agriculture, I want less to do, but actually it
is really really important. This idea that we saw over
the last six years of the Labour Green government that
you can run a farm from Wellington and you can
sit there talking to your officials and workout actually what
should happen on the farm is absolutely wrong about sixteen
initiatives in rural New Zealand that we have underway at

(01:04):
the moment, from replacing the National Policy Statement for Freshwater
Management through the sensible rules around stock exclusion and winter grazing,
but many, many more of them. This is all about actually,
you know, looking at risk, working with local councils and
farmers and allowing them to come up with decisions for themselves,
because not every part of New Zealand is the same,

(01:26):
they're all different thirty And secondly, I trust farmers to
get on and do the job properly.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
This is an interactive conference. We've got a nice app,
modern tech and you can ask your question via the
app of the keynote speakers. One that was asked of you.
You probably dodged for cover a wee bit on this one.
And I know you're a political animal like me and
you just loved the Trump Biden to bait. What a
debarkle it was. But here's the question for you. As

(01:52):
it stands at the moment, the US is our second
biggest export market behind China, which is streets ahead Australia's third.
What will a Trump presidency And I know you've got
a trade rarely here, Tom McLay. But what will a
Trump presidency mean for New Zealand trade? Well, look, I
think what we've seen since President Trump became president was

(02:14):
seven or eight years ago without a free trade agreement
or out a trade deal. Our trade with the US
has grown, so it is a very important market for us.
We're in a unique position compared to many countries. We
buy more from the US than we sell them. And
when I was Trade Minister the last time I got
up there and visited the White House.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
And I made that case to them. We don't mind that.
That's what trade is about. We're happy to buy more
than we sell them. So whomsoever is the President Trump
or bri or Biden a some month's time actually can
be good news for New Zealand. If we get under
the world's da age and we hustle. I know the
PM's got a visit up there in the not too

(02:54):
distant future. I'm holding up a formal visitors Trade Minister
until after their election. And ultimately for Kiwi exporters in
particularly rural New Zealand, if we work hard and we
get into these markets, there are opportunities for us.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
One of the interesting stats you threw out on your
address this morning to kick off the conference was this
story about apples. And this is not apple iPhones. This
is apples that we sell. But we sell more machinery
to harvest apples than we do apples to the US.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, package, packing and processing apples, And isn't that fascinating.
That's the New Zealand primary sector story. We are innovative
from the men and women who get out of bed
every morning on the farm all the way through to
the processing and then the export part of what we do.
And so you're right, Jamie, I'm told that last year
we made more money through exports in the American market

(03:46):
from selling on the machines that pack and process apples
that were designed and manufactured in New Zealand than the
number of apples. And that's actually what we need, a
regulatory environment or a business of rom New Zealand that
rewards hard work because there are fewer rules, not more.
And back in key, weis to do what we need
to do on the world's age, which is get out
there and trade.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Now let me quote some of your stats back to you,
just for the listener's sake. Kiw Fruit we've got this
tara free agreement into the EU. Now most of that
or nearly all of our Kiwi fruit harvest for this season,
as I understand, has snuck into that tarra free window.
That is worth sixteen thousand dollars per Kiwi fruit grower
in this country.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
And that's just money straight into their pocket. And that's
the reason that I reached across the house and negotiated
with some of the other parties to get the agreement
in force many many more months than it was going
to be. You know, the first year alone, we'll have
one hundred million dollars worth of tariff savings, which just
means our products are more competitive over there, we compete
more easily. But in the case of Kiwi fruit, you're right,

(04:48):
sixteen thousand dollars on average for every grower in New
Zealand as a result of Parliament doing its job faster.
You know, those contracts are already signed, the deal's already done.
That's sixteen thousand dollars extra their pocket to spend on
their farms and orchards, or spend in the local economy,
do what they want with because are the ones working hard.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Christopher Luxon Prime Minister has given you a mission. He said,
get off your backside. He didn't quite say that, my words,
not his, but get out on the world stage and
hustle on. I know one of your first gigs when
you got the job last year was to head to India.
And we look at the Australian sheep farmers zero percent
tariff for their lamb. Can we do something like that?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, and the answers we have to. So you know,
if you talked about a trade profile earlier, and you
know we a number one market for exports is China,
We've got Australia and you've got the US there as well.
We need an end strategy. We want to sell to
these places and open up opportunities elsewhere, and India is
a really really big opportunity for us. You know the

(05:49):
case if you think about the poor old sheep farm
in New Zealand is doing it really really hard. One
of the reasons that we are being sensible around farmer
missions and looking for efficiency. I don't want to put
a single or sheep farmer out of business just because
you know, the last labor government decided tax is the
way to deal with these problems, and it's not. But
the point here is that actually an Australian sheep farmer

(06:11):
is selling as much lamb as they can as zero
tariff rate. Our guys face thirty percent tax at the border.
They're selling a lot more wool into that market as
well because those tariff rates have come down. And so
you know, the Primate has said, you know, get on
the plane, get out there, hustle on the world stage.
I mean in India already when St. Peters has been there.
PM will lead a trade mission later this year, and
now that their election's over, I'm due to get up

(06:32):
there again quite soon to open the door and provide
opportunity for Kiwi exporters.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
A couple to finish on how are you going to
get us to net zero by twenty fifty.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, we're going to be sensible and smart. It makes
no sense to close down New Zealand farms and send
that food production to America or the EU with a
less carbon efficient, which is worse for climate change. But
you know what we're seeing from the government and the
private set this investment. You know, we're putting four hundred
million dollars of next four years into research that will

(07:05):
help come up with the solutions is that actually New
Zealand farmers are up for the challenge number one. Number two.
A raft of tools that they can use from you know,
from genetics to perhaps vaccines, to different rye grasses to
just understanding the production cycle better will get us there.
And so you know, well, we've come out with the

(07:26):
first thing, which is a review of independent review of
the science and targets of methane against additional warming. The
first thing we have to do is know exactly what
it is we're asking farmers to do. We shouldn't ask
them to do more than they need to, but you know,
we're informing this by the bottom line that we want
to keep selling food to the world. We have to
meet our obligations. You know, biotechnology and advance as an

(07:47):
investment will get us there. Taxing farmers and closing down
farms will not.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Let's just finish on this one. You're the current Minister
of Agriculture and Trade. You're the son of a politician.
Your dad it's Roger, isn't it McLay. Does he listen
to the show?

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Does or I'll be getting a text message in about
three minutes from them.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Hello Roger, if you are listening. But I do know
that Roger your dad was great mates with Winston Peters.
Now I heard, well, I didn't heard. Cameron Baggery said
to me last week at the South Island Dairy Conference
that Winston is doing a great job for New Zealand
on the foreign stage.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Do you concur with hi, yah? It absolutely is. He's
out there a lot. He's in many parts of the world.
He is rebuilding the relationships that we used to have
that for whatever reason, over the last you know, five
or you know, three or four years, we're run down
and it's a really important job. You know, if we
sit at home as a small nation of the bottom
of the world of five and a half million people,
then we won't get visited and nobody will buy things

(08:45):
from us. So Christopher Upton's been really clear he leading
it with Winston, With Judith Colins and me as trade
minister are out on the world stage and Winston has
spoken to every single trade minister in the world I
understand in the last fever months and is visiting them.
He's doing an exceptional job on our behalf. And you know,
the recognition of New Zealand's contribution on the world stage

(09:07):
and it leads through the trade, which is better access
to country for New Zealand farmers in part has been
led by him and the great work he's doing.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
And my final question for you, how much more fun
are cabinet meetings now that Shane Jones is in cabinet.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Well, I've not been in a cabinet before, but I
can tell you Shane's told me that this cabin is
a lot more fun than the last time he was
in was with Labor. He's a good guy. I know
Shane very very well. We're good friends. We don't agree
on everything around the cabinet table, but that's a good thing. Actually,
that's how we can test ideas and get the best
things for New Zealanders. He is single mindedly focused and

(09:42):
having a good set of rules to allow investment in
regional New Zealand, which is good for rural New Zealand
and as he said, you know we're going to care
about the environment, but maybe we can build a bit
of stuff as well.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
There we go. Todd McClay, Minister of Agriculture and Trade,
who kicked off the Primary Sector summit this morning and
Wellington