December 2, 2025 • 8 mins
The Prime Minister comments on another drop in the GDT Auction, the US Business Summit, a farm visit today to Hawke's Bay, whether Pāmu is on the chopping block, and whether holding local body rate rises to 2-4% is realistic.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Here's a busy man, as you'd expect with the bloke
running of the country. Krystpher Lux and PM kicks off
the show on a Wednesday. It is earlier on a
Wednesday as we pre record this because he's in a
car going to the airport. He's heading down to Napier
for a day out with the farmers and Wayne Langford
from Federated Farmers.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, how are you Jamie? Good to be with you?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Are you grooming him for potential National Party candidacy Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Look, I think he's doing a great job actually leading seeds.
He's doing a brilliant job. And yeah, they're really good
because they are really straight up to deal with and
you know, they can play back very clearly what's going
on in the farming community. And I've got a government
that they know is backing them and we're all in
on the side of the farmers, which is great.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Well, the last president of Federated Farmer's, David Seymour, pinched
him you better be careful. Winston hasn't got his eye
on Yolo.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
No.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Look, I think now they've done a great job and
it's actually always very constructive because they've got a lot
of good resource. They've got a good thinking on policy,
and when you actually think about what we did and
what we committed to pre election and what we've gone
off and delivered and getting rid of the red tape
and getting something sort of for people, I think we've
been working together.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, you had a US en Z business summit this morning.
We're doing great business with the US. But then I
look at our biggest export, not to the US by
the way, but around the world, dairy and another four
point three percent drop and the GDT auction overnight it
was signaled, and perhaps that number is not as bad
as it looks first up. But are you worried that
(01:32):
our biggest export income is calling it's jets big time
at the moment?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, no, I'm not, actually, and I think that's because
the long run sort of outlook for protein around the world,
whether it's through dairy, whether it's through red meat. Frankly,
you know, there's a global shortage and so there's more
demand and there is supply. I'm also, you know, have
been very impressed with the knowledge that has built in
Fonterra even over recent years, around the consumers that are
(01:57):
targeting and where they find and how much money they
make from selling to them. You know, it is a
big world, Jamie. Out there there is eight billion people
in one hundred and ninety five countries and there is
a world of massive opportunity for New Zealand. And so
what has been really good to see over the last
eighteen months is that as we've been opening up new
opportunities in the GCC or the UAA or what we're
(02:19):
you know what we're working hard on India and accelerating
the European FTA interaction earlier. You know, our our exporter
they're getting in Fonterra included getting very agile at moving
around those markets. Is that we had this morning at
seven we had our US New Zealand business somemit as
you're alluding to.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's actually going on all day. But our trade to
the US is.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Up eight percent and that's despite having had a fifteen
percent tariff applied.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
But the good news, of course is that thirty percent.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Of our trades now the tariff's been removed, which helps
beef and kiwi fruit. So yeah, so I think there's
I think a different way of thinking about it is
that we're a small country, we have huge opportunity out
there in the world, and there's massive amounts of consumers
moving from poverty into the middle classes and they want
be quality food and that's good for us.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Is Palmu on the chopping block. You've talked openly about
asset sales, But it's all very well to say or
sell Parmu off because it's not performing that well, even
though it's performing a wee bit better now, but practically
it would be very difficult to sell it or even
divest yourself from it.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, the point I was just trying to make a
couple of weeks back was just sort of this idea
of what's called asset recycling. If you think about it,
the New Zealand government has money tied up in a
bunch of assets, and the question you've got to ask yourself,
a bit like Singapore and other places do, is well,
is that the best possible return and benefit that I
can create for the people of New Zealand. And so
all I was trying to say is when I'd quickly
(03:38):
locked at the Palmu stuff, you know a while ago,
it's about.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Two point four billion.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I think it's one hundred and thirty farms there, but
they were getting a two to three percent kind of
return on that money. And the question is, well, actually,
is that a good amount of capital and cash tied
up in an asset that actually could be recycled into
another asset that could actually generate a seven percent return
from New Zealand, you know. And so that was the
(04:02):
conversation I was trying to have rather than get out
of this sort of simplistic conversation that has taken place
around in New Zealand and the past around a ssets sales.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But if you sold Palmeo off hole a spall as
surely you would crash the rural market, the property market.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well no, but what I mean, I haven't thought about that.
All I was just highlighting was as an example where
you've got two point four billion dollars of New Zealand's money,
new Zealand taxpayers money, tied up in a seat of assets.
And the question you should be reasonably able to ask
is is that the best use of that fund or
those funds or those moneyes is that getting the best return?
(04:35):
Is it working as hard as possible. It's a bit
like you know, when you chuck money into an investment
that's a standard two percent return and you could be
getting a twelve percent return investing it somewhere else. My
job is to make sure that that balance sheet a
little bit like your farmers have their own balance sheets.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
They don't. They want to make sure that the every
dollar is working hard for them.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
And that's what that's the that's the bigger question I
was trying to play into, was you know, we should
make sure every dollar is working for New Zealanders.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Finally, while I applaud your attempt to keep local body
rates to four percent, I mean they've got completely out
of control. Is that realistic? Because basically central government's abdicated
a lot of the fiscal responsibility to local governments. And
how the hell are you expecting local body authorities to
keep their rates to two point four percent when they've
(05:22):
got millions or billions I'm sounding like gold member there
to spend on water infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, So a couple of things going on.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
One is, if you say a step back, you know,
this RMA is just making it impossible to get anything
done in this country. So that's why you're going to
see a new RMA. We think there should be a
forty six percent reduction in people even needing consents and
we think, yes, we've got to do a better job
in central government of setting some standards that actually doesn't
just chuck a whole bunch of complexity on to local government.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But as part of.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
The RMA reform, then you got to ask the question
when actually local government isn't working, if we're really honest
with ourselves, and that's why we're getting rid of regional counselors.
But also while we're saying, you've got to have a
rates cap and so if you look at long run
infrastructure like three Waters as you just identified, that is
outside of this because there's different structures of long term
debt financing you've put in place around those assets. But realistically,
(06:17):
if inflation's running at three percent, you know, at the
moment the last year, council rates are up nine and
a half percent, almost three times. If you're you know,
a senior who's on a fixed income, or you're a
young couple that have stretched into a house and then
you can't afford the rates and there's some dumb stuff
going on, Jamie. I mean, like in Wellington they built
a two million dollar public toilet block that has a
(06:38):
light show on it for Goden's sake. I mean, like
you know, it's just dumb, silly, But.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Wellington does dumb stuff all the time. Well not only
at a local body level.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Oh come on, you're just being mean now, you're just
being mean.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Oh no, I agree with you. I think it was
your local government minister Simon Watts who said stop doing
dumb stuff. And I'll tell you a really good example
next time you're in Dunedin, Prime Minister. The Otaga Regional
Council has built a monument a palace to its own greatness.
I've got three hundred and sixty something people employed there
and they're going to be disbanded. I mean, why would
(07:12):
they do that?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well, that's that's been the frustration, right, and you think
about some of the issues that your farmer's listening. Well,
I've had issues around consenting and just the rules they
provide district council and then regional council in central government
and we've just got way too much bureaucracy in the joints.
So we've got to get rid of it. And that's
partly why we're taking out regional councils. It's also what
we're saying to all counsels, look the households, businesses, farmers,
(07:37):
central government. Frankly, we've all had to manage within our
means and we expect you to do the same thing.
And when we see silly stuff going on and balance
sheets not being used appropriately, then actually I think putting
the cap.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
In place in the band that we've talked about two
to four percent. Let you know we're going to give
a good go.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Stop doing dumb stuff. We will leave it at that.
Prime Minister, thanks for your time, good luck in Napier today
with Wine Langford.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Thanks Jammy, you have a great week.
Here's a busy man, as you'd expect with the bloke
running of the country. Krystpher Lux and PM kicks off
the show on a Wednesday. It is earlier on a
Wednesday as we pre record this because he's in a
car going to the airport. He's heading down to Napier
for a day out with the farmers and Wayne Langford
from Federated Farmers.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, how are you Jamie? Good to be with you?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Are you grooming him for potential National Party candidacy Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Look, I think he's doing a great job actually leading seeds.
He's doing a brilliant job. And yeah, they're really good
because they are really straight up to deal with and
you know, they can play back very clearly what's going
on in the farming community. And I've got a government
that they know is backing them and we're all in
on the side of the farmers, which is great.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Well, the last president of Federated Farmer's, David Seymour, pinched
him you better be careful. Winston hasn't got his eye
on Yolo.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
No.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Look, I think now they've done a great job and
it's actually always very constructive because they've got a lot
of good resource. They've got a good thinking on policy,
and when you actually think about what we did and
what we committed to pre election and what we've gone
off and delivered and getting rid of the red tape
and getting something sort of for people, I think we've
been working together.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Well, you had a US en Z business summit this morning.
We're doing great business with the US. But then I
look at our biggest export, not to the US by
the way, but around the world, dairy and another four
point three percent drop and the GDT auction overnight it
was signaled, and perhaps that number is not as bad
as it looks first up. But are you worried that
(01:32):
our biggest export income is calling it's jets big time
at the moment?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, no, I'm not, actually, and I think that's because
the long run sort of outlook for protein around the world,
whether it's through dairy, whether it's through red meat. Frankly,
you know, there's a global shortage and so there's more
demand and there is supply. I'm also, you know, have
been very impressed with the knowledge that has built in
Fonterra even over recent years, around the consumers that are
(01:57):
targeting and where they find and how much money they
make from selling to them. You know, it is a
big world, Jamie. Out there there is eight billion people
in one hundred and ninety five countries and there is
a world of massive opportunity for New Zealand. And so
what has been really good to see over the last
eighteen months is that as we've been opening up new
opportunities in the GCC or the UAA or what we're
(02:19):
you know what we're working hard on India and accelerating
the European FTA interaction earlier. You know, our our exporter
they're getting in Fonterra included getting very agile at moving
around those markets. Is that we had this morning at
seven we had our US New Zealand business somemit as
you're alluding to.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's actually going on all day. But our trade to
the US is.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Up eight percent and that's despite having had a fifteen
percent tariff applied.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
But the good news, of course is that thirty percent.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Of our trades now the tariff's been removed, which helps
beef and kiwi fruit. So yeah, so I think there's
I think a different way of thinking about it is
that we're a small country, we have huge opportunity out
there in the world, and there's massive amounts of consumers
moving from poverty into the middle classes and they want
be quality food and that's good for us.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Is Palmu on the chopping block. You've talked openly about
asset sales, But it's all very well to say or
sell Parmu off because it's not performing that well, even
though it's performing a wee bit better now, but practically
it would be very difficult to sell it or even
divest yourself from it.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, the point I was just trying to make a
couple of weeks back was just sort of this idea
of what's called asset recycling. If you think about it,
the New Zealand government has money tied up in a
bunch of assets, and the question you've got to ask yourself,
a bit like Singapore and other places do, is well,
is that the best possible return and benefit that I
can create for the people of New Zealand. And so
all I was trying to say is when I'd quickly
(03:38):
locked at the Palmu stuff, you know a while ago,
it's about.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Two point four billion.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I think it's one hundred and thirty farms there, but
they were getting a two to three percent kind of
return on that money. And the question is, well, actually,
is that a good amount of capital and cash tied
up in an asset that actually could be recycled into
another asset that could actually generate a seven percent return
from New Zealand, you know. And so that was the
(04:02):
conversation I was trying to have rather than get out
of this sort of simplistic conversation that has taken place
around in New Zealand and the past around a ssets sales.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
But if you sold Palmeo off hole a spall as
surely you would crash the rural market, the property market.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Well no, but what I mean, I haven't thought about that.
All I was just highlighting was as an example where
you've got two point four billion dollars of New Zealand's money,
new Zealand taxpayers money, tied up in a seat of assets.
And the question you should be reasonably able to ask
is is that the best use of that fund or
those funds or those moneyes is that getting the best return?
(04:35):
Is it working as hard as possible. It's a bit
like you know, when you chuck money into an investment
that's a standard two percent return and you could be
getting a twelve percent return investing it somewhere else. My
job is to make sure that that balance sheet a
little bit like your farmers have their own balance sheets.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
They don't. They want to make sure that the every
dollar is working hard for them.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
And that's what that's the that's the bigger question I
was trying to play into, was you know, we should
make sure every dollar is working for New Zealanders.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Finally, while I applaud your attempt to keep local body
rates to four percent, I mean they've got completely out
of control. Is that realistic? Because basically central government's abdicated
a lot of the fiscal responsibility to local governments. And
how the hell are you expecting local body authorities to
keep their rates to two point four percent when they've
(05:22):
got millions or billions I'm sounding like gold member there
to spend on water infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, So a couple of things going on.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
One is, if you say a step back, you know,
this RMA is just making it impossible to get anything
done in this country. So that's why you're going to
see a new RMA. We think there should be a
forty six percent reduction in people even needing consents and
we think, yes, we've got to do a better job
in central government of setting some standards that actually doesn't
just chuck a whole bunch of complexity on to local government.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But as part of.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
The RMA reform, then you got to ask the question
when actually local government isn't working, if we're really honest
with ourselves, and that's why we're getting rid of regional counselors.
But also while we're saying, you've got to have a
rates cap and so if you look at long run
infrastructure like three Waters as you just identified, that is
outside of this because there's different structures of long term
debt financing you've put in place around those assets. But realistically,
(06:17):
if inflation's running at three percent, you know, at the
moment the last year, council rates are up nine and
a half percent, almost three times. If you're you know,
a senior who's on a fixed income, or you're a
young couple that have stretched into a house and then
you can't afford the rates and there's some dumb stuff
going on, Jamie. I mean, like in Wellington they built
a two million dollar public toilet block that has a
(06:38):
light show on it for Goden's sake. I mean, like
you know, it's just dumb, silly, But.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Wellington does dumb stuff all the time. Well not only
at a local body level.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Oh come on, you're just being mean now, you're just
being mean.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Oh no, I agree with you. I think it was
your local government minister Simon Watts who said stop doing
dumb stuff. And I'll tell you a really good example
next time you're in Dunedin, Prime Minister. The Otaga Regional
Council has built a monument a palace to its own greatness.
I've got three hundred and sixty something people employed there
and they're going to be disbanded. I mean, why would
(07:12):
they do that?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well, that's that's been the frustration, right, and you think
about some of the issues that your farmer's listening. Well,
I've had issues around consenting and just the rules they
provide district council and then regional council in central government
and we've just got way too much bureaucracy in the joints.
So we've got to get rid of it. And that's
partly why we're taking out regional councils. It's also what
we're saying to all counsels, look the households, businesses, farmers,
(07:37):
central government. Frankly, we've all had to manage within our
means and we expect you to do the same thing.
And when we see silly stuff going on and balance
sheets not being used appropriately, then actually I think putting
the cap.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
In place in the band that we've talked about two
to four percent. Let you know we're going to give
a good go.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Stop doing dumb stuff. We will leave it at that.
Prime Minister, thanks for your time, good luck in Napier today
with Wine Langford.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Thanks Jammy, you have a great week.
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