May 4, 2025 • 8 mins
Federated Farmers' meat and wool chairman welcomes the Government’s commitment to halt the locking up of high-quality farmland in carbon forest, but says loopholes remain.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
But it's Toby Williams has turned to kick off the
show from gisban Meat and wool chair. As I said, Toby,
were you out battling the feathered foe over the weekend?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
No, Damie is not really my cup of tea. But
I used to win an a bit younger, but not
with you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm retired, although I did visit
quite a few duck ponds and my miyes. It's always
fun going to New my miyes on Saturday morning. Look
on Friday, I think it was just after we went
to here, you guys came out with a press release
at Federated Farmers saying carbon forestry loopholes must be closed.
What are these loopholes you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, it's all around about the intent to plant it
before the fourth December. So we're really supportive of the
government's rule changes around the land classes to be able
to register for the ets. But you know, we're finding
a lot of farmers still selling and have been failed
overseas investment, you know, offers that have fallen through under
the new rules, and also at nursery to apparently buying
(01:00):
up farms and well, I intended to plant that far
because I already owned the trees and we want the
government to come out and be really clear about what
they meant around on the fourth of deceverl what couldn't
call what does intend to plant mean? Because it's causing
a lot of consternation amongst rural people.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So that was December last year when the government made
this announcement and they put a peg immediately in the sand.
And what you're saying is the idea that buying seedlings
before December twenty twenty four is an intention to plant
as an absolute joke because I guess you know, anyone
can probably backdate an invoice for some seedlings.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, that's all we're ready concerned about is how do
you actually show that there was true intent to do
that as people now scramble to get their better class
of land and get it registered into the ETS before
these new rules kicking. And it's just, you know, it's
just a defies belief really that we're hearing more and
more farms, especially down in Southland. You know it's relatively
flat farms that are class you know two, three four
(02:02):
that are being planted for pine trees. And I was
spoken if you really clear goal Jamie, if those planetary
doing plants are purely for production, no intent to claim
carbon of them, they're fisure boots. We've got no issues
with that at all. But it's a carbon that we're
concerned about and the ability to register.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, but Toby, the reality of it is, no one
is buying these these good productive farmland or rolling farmland
to plant trees for production forestry. We all know the game, well, we.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Do know the game. Is why we can be really
clear that the government's come out and categorically show that
unless you've got a you know, and bok that can
be a credited bit, you know that will survive some
forensic accounting to look at it. Then you know clearly
you didn't have the intent and trying to sell to
somebody who who who was going to do that also
should sheerly clearly so you didn't have the intent you
(02:52):
were trying to sell out. Unfortunately, that's falling apart, that's
falling away from you. So we need the government to
come and cleared out really quickly, so you know, maybe
we're a chance of keeping the farm still producing food.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I see that a federated farmer's president in Hawk's Bay,
Jim Galloway, you're offside and down the road. That was
talking about some of the impacts these conversions are having.
And there's another couple in the central Hawks Bay region
have been sold to overseas buyers in recent weeks. And
that follows another, so that these farms were eight hundred
(03:26):
hectares and four hundred and eighty hectares a fifteen hundred
hectare sheep and beef farm sold very recently to an
overseas buyer. There's an awful example down in my home
patch on the Hockanui Hills of a farm that's going
to carbon farming and a lot of it shouldn't be going.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, there is. And some of those judgments that came
out from the Hawk's Bay ones were either the land's
actually no good for anything else, only the best thing
for it as only in pine trees. Look will bet
that there's been a good quality land down They might
have had a few challenging seasons, but you know, that's
a cow country, that's sheep and cow country, and it's
our breeding country. So what we're finding is our breeding
(04:06):
numbers of cows and ews are falling because the better
country is soaked up doing better land uses, finishing animals,
dairy support and then got there. So we're now starting
to cut our nose off to spite our faces and
put pressure onto our our vetery. Our share is our
meat processes.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
You're also saying farmers are increasingly reporting that carbon farming
brings with it other issues like out of control pig
and deer numbers, wildfire risk, and rampant wilding pines. And
I do know. I know a farmer well who's surrounded
by carbon farming, and he was trying desperately to grow
(04:41):
a winter feed crop, but he couldn't because the feral
animals were coming down from out of the pine trees
or out of the forests, are out of the bush
and eating everything in front of them.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, there's a mess area. We've certainly got that up
here on these character has been for twenty years now.
We've been battling this and the rest of the count
you're sort of so he's dying to see what happens
when you have massive forestation, and as a real lack
of desire from these companies to sort of get in
there and work with landowners to really tackle the problem,
we've been working with forest owners to put an agreement
(05:14):
together about how you should farm and forests to each other.
But you know, there's a mess of fears and we
see it all over the place. Pigs are really bad,
especially around lemming time. Any winter crop you put in
a perfect snack for a dear.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Do you think the government went far enough with its
rules or its legislation which is going to come into
force shortly. But as I said, they put the peg
in the sand at December last year. They're making it
very difficult to plant on land use classes one to
six thereafter. I guess classes what's seven eight? I'm not
(05:50):
even sure if there is a nine, But seven and
eight are fine for forestry. They're probably fine for carbon farming,
but I don't think the forest is the actual production.
Foresters want the bar of that land because it's too
remote and it's too steep.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And so you know people can
still plant that land, you know, Class one er sex
you can still plant, you just can't claim the carbon
out of it. And that's what you know. So we
are supportive of those rules. We do think they've gone
far enough, and it gives us a bit of balance,
But we need to get through this sort of initial
teething period of the next twelve months of how we
determine the intent to plant pine trees, because the government
(06:26):
does seem to be held bent on putting as many
pine trees as the ground as possible to you know,
to pay our way through the Paris according and before
they argue and say they're not going to we're looking
at planting one hundred and eighty thousand years of conservation land.
So it's you know, they really want as many pine
trees in the ground. So we need to get on
top of this and make sure we're stilled a productive
rural economy.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
How's the farming season going in the Gisbon East Coast region.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
We've probably had one of the best years, I think,
and you know, in a long time, we've we've sort
of been drowned the last few years and a bit
dry in places before that. But I think of all
of the country, if you've found anybody and against been
sort of East coast areas complaining about the weather, and
you know, you've got to actually tell them maybe they
should pack up and choose a different job, because we've
(07:11):
had an absolute beltare has been really brilliant.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
We're going to be talking to Peter Alexander farm accountant
a bit later in the hour and looking at the
respective profitability of varying sectors. How's the profitability of a
sheep farmer this year?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, sheep farm is really good. And I used my
own example. We sort of set the budget last year
coming into during this year to finishing, we sort of
thought we've got one hundred and ten dollars for around
the am to be pretty happy, probably just about break even,
and we're now pushing out it one hundred and sixty
hundred and seventy dollars, a lamb of the last ones
we've got. So it's really nice to be back into
that profitability. And obviously beef prices are amazing. The concerns
(07:48):
we do have around why our specially our sheep price
is so high. We don't want it to be procurement driven.
We want to the market driven to make sure our
processes is still able to function because we lose big
processes because you're losing money, then you know, we all
lose out in the end. So it's nice to be
making profit.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Got on youre Toby Williams meet and wheelchair for Federated Farmers.
Thanks for your time. I'm always appreciated.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Thanks Amie have great Dame
But it's Toby Williams has turned to kick off the
show from gisban Meat and wool chair. As I said, Toby,
were you out battling the feathered foe over the weekend?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
No, Damie is not really my cup of tea. But
I used to win an a bit younger, but not
with you.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm retired, although I did visit
quite a few duck ponds and my miyes. It's always
fun going to New my miyes on Saturday morning. Look
on Friday, I think it was just after we went
to here, you guys came out with a press release
at Federated Farmers saying carbon forestry loopholes must be closed.
What are these loopholes you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, it's all around about the intent to plant it
before the fourth December. So we're really supportive of the
government's rule changes around the land classes to be able
to register for the ets. But you know, we're finding
a lot of farmers still selling and have been failed
overseas investment, you know, offers that have fallen through under
the new rules, and also at nursery to apparently buying
(01:00):
up farms and well, I intended to plant that far
because I already owned the trees and we want the
government to come out and be really clear about what
they meant around on the fourth of deceverl what couldn't
call what does intend to plant mean? Because it's causing
a lot of consternation amongst rural people.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So that was December last year when the government made
this announcement and they put a peg immediately in the sand.
And what you're saying is the idea that buying seedlings
before December twenty twenty four is an intention to plant
as an absolute joke because I guess you know, anyone
can probably backdate an invoice for some seedlings.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, that's all we're ready concerned about is how do
you actually show that there was true intent to do
that as people now scramble to get their better class
of land and get it registered into the ETS before
these new rules kicking. And it's just, you know, it's
just a defies belief really that we're hearing more and
more farms, especially down in Southland. You know it's relatively
flat farms that are class you know two, three four
(02:02):
that are being planted for pine trees. And I was
spoken if you really clear goal Jamie, if those planetary
doing plants are purely for production, no intent to claim
carbon of them, they're fisure boots. We've got no issues
with that at all. But it's a carbon that we're
concerned about and the ability to register.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, but Toby, the reality of it is, no one
is buying these these good productive farmland or rolling farmland
to plant trees for production forestry. We all know the game, well, we.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Do know the game. Is why we can be really
clear that the government's come out and categorically show that
unless you've got a you know, and bok that can
be a credited bit, you know that will survive some
forensic accounting to look at it. Then you know clearly
you didn't have the intent and trying to sell to
somebody who who who was going to do that also
should sheerly clearly so you didn't have the intent you
(02:52):
were trying to sell out. Unfortunately, that's falling apart, that's
falling away from you. So we need the government to
come and cleared out really quickly, so you know, maybe
we're a chance of keeping the farm still producing food.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I see that a federated farmer's president in Hawk's Bay,
Jim Galloway, you're offside and down the road. That was
talking about some of the impacts these conversions are having.
And there's another couple in the central Hawks Bay region
have been sold to overseas buyers in recent weeks. And
that follows another, so that these farms were eight hundred
(03:26):
hectares and four hundred and eighty hectares a fifteen hundred
hectare sheep and beef farm sold very recently to an
overseas buyer. There's an awful example down in my home
patch on the Hockanui Hills of a farm that's going
to carbon farming and a lot of it shouldn't be going.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, there is. And some of those judgments that came
out from the Hawk's Bay ones were either the land's
actually no good for anything else, only the best thing
for it as only in pine trees. Look will bet
that there's been a good quality land down They might
have had a few challenging seasons, but you know, that's
a cow country, that's sheep and cow country, and it's
our breeding country. So what we're finding is our breeding
(04:06):
numbers of cows and ews are falling because the better
country is soaked up doing better land uses, finishing animals,
dairy support and then got there. So we're now starting
to cut our nose off to spite our faces and
put pressure onto our our vetery. Our share is our
meat processes.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
You're also saying farmers are increasingly reporting that carbon farming
brings with it other issues like out of control pig
and deer numbers, wildfire risk, and rampant wilding pines. And
I do know. I know a farmer well who's surrounded
by carbon farming, and he was trying desperately to grow
(04:41):
a winter feed crop, but he couldn't because the feral
animals were coming down from out of the pine trees
or out of the forests, are out of the bush
and eating everything in front of them.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, there's a mess area. We've certainly got that up
here on these character has been for twenty years now.
We've been battling this and the rest of the count
you're sort of so he's dying to see what happens
when you have massive forestation, and as a real lack
of desire from these companies to sort of get in
there and work with landowners to really tackle the problem,
we've been working with forest owners to put an agreement
(05:14):
together about how you should farm and forests to each other.
But you know, there's a mess of fears and we
see it all over the place. Pigs are really bad,
especially around lemming time. Any winter crop you put in
a perfect snack for a dear.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Do you think the government went far enough with its
rules or its legislation which is going to come into
force shortly. But as I said, they put the peg
in the sand at December last year. They're making it
very difficult to plant on land use classes one to
six thereafter. I guess classes what's seven eight? I'm not
(05:50):
even sure if there is a nine, But seven and
eight are fine for forestry. They're probably fine for carbon farming,
but I don't think the forest is the actual production.
Foresters want the bar of that land because it's too
remote and it's too steep.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And so you know people can
still plant that land, you know, Class one er sex
you can still plant, you just can't claim the carbon
out of it. And that's what you know. So we
are supportive of those rules. We do think they've gone
far enough, and it gives us a bit of balance,
But we need to get through this sort of initial
teething period of the next twelve months of how we
determine the intent to plant pine trees, because the government
(06:26):
does seem to be held bent on putting as many
pine trees as the ground as possible to you know,
to pay our way through the Paris according and before
they argue and say they're not going to we're looking
at planting one hundred and eighty thousand years of conservation land.
So it's you know, they really want as many pine
trees in the ground. So we need to get on
top of this and make sure we're stilled a productive
rural economy.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
How's the farming season going in the Gisbon East Coast region.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
We've probably had one of the best years, I think,
and you know, in a long time, we've we've sort
of been drowned the last few years and a bit
dry in places before that. But I think of all
of the country, if you've found anybody and against been
sort of East coast areas complaining about the weather, and
you know, you've got to actually tell them maybe they
should pack up and choose a different job, because we've
(07:11):
had an absolute beltare has been really brilliant.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
We're going to be talking to Peter Alexander farm accountant
a bit later in the hour and looking at the
respective profitability of varying sectors. How's the profitability of a
sheep farmer this year?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, sheep farm is really good. And I used my
own example. We sort of set the budget last year
coming into during this year to finishing, we sort of
thought we've got one hundred and ten dollars for around
the am to be pretty happy, probably just about break even,
and we're now pushing out it one hundred and sixty
hundred and seventy dollars, a lamb of the last ones
we've got. So it's really nice to be back into
that profitability. And obviously beef prices are amazing. The concerns
(07:48):
we do have around why our specially our sheep price
is so high. We don't want it to be procurement driven.
We want to the market driven to make sure our
processes is still able to function because we lose big
processes because you're losing money, then you know, we all
lose out in the end. So it's nice to be
making profit.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Got on youre Toby Williams meet and wheelchair for Federated Farmers.
Thanks for your time. I'm always appreciated.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Thanks Amie have great Dame
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