The Country 05/08/25: Dr Jacqueline Rowarth talks to Jamie Mackay

We ask one of NZ’s leading primary sector academics if, after a lifetime in education, students can’t handle exam pressure and the subsequent life pressures.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fortnightly. She writes an excellent column for US doctor Jaquelin Rowis.
They're going to come back to that one because this
week's offering is a beauty. But Jacqueline, you've spent a
lifetime in education. What did you make of yesterday's big
announcement from the government abolishing NCEA Because I think, and
I'm sounding like a grumpy old boomer here, Jacqueline, that

(00:23):
you know, younger people are snowflakes. Exam pressure is just
part of life. You are the past or you fail
when you leave school.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, hurdles are part of life. And remember I have
no children. So what I'm talking about is experience from
the classroom and coming back from University of Melbourne in
two thousand and seven, it was quite a shock to me,
not having talked first here for seven years to see
what the children will like as a product from NCEEA.

(00:54):
And this was fairly at the beginning, but nevertheless it
was a fairly disappointing experience. It was lacking in pushback
and questioning and all the sorts of things that one
really enjoys in the university classroom. The debate, the rigor,
I used to say, challenge me guys. But the NTA

(01:15):
kids were a bit formulaic and wanting templates, which doesn't
reflect real life or model answers or all of those
sorts of things. And I didn't feel that what I
had in the university classroom was the result of a
great preparation for that university classroom. So my job at

(01:36):
university was to try and get them fit for the
workforce in three or four years, or that's what I
myself imposed task was getting them fit for the workforce.
And indeed I had employers coming to me and saying,
who have you got for us this year? Jack, and
I'd try and get them into positions where I knew
they would flourish. But it was all about then being

(01:58):
encouraged to step up. And yes, exams hurdles are a
part of life, and just getting used to them with
lots of little tests or whatever helps with the big
issues later when you do or don't get the job,
or you do or don't get the promotion.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, we had excellence and mirrors and the good old
days once again, grumpy Boomer, But I'm on a roll now,
so I as we'll keep going. You were marked between
one and one hundred fifty percent was the pass rate.
So if you got fifty one, your past. If you've
got forty nine, you failed. And life's like that.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
And it was interesting to me when this generation started
coming through any of the education system, it was about
the same time when we were getting all the you
are the weakest link goodbye, all the elimination programs. And
we see them in cookery, we see them on Love Island,
we see them in chases and tasks, all those things.
The elimination people actually like to know where they are

(02:54):
in the pack. They like to know they're the head
of the pack at number one, all that, in the
middle of the pack and safe from dropping out or
being singled out for something that they don't feel up to.
So the ranking used to be actually part of human psyche,
and honestly, I think it still is.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
I think of the greatest elimination show of all time.
Not really, but I'm saying this facetiously. The Apprentice, Trump,
You're fired, You're either in around Hey, how does this
tie in with what Brooke van Velden was saying the
other day about kids collecting eggs? Was she misquoted? Was
it fake news? Trump?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I'd think there was some muddling going on, and yes,
Federated Farmers said it was a misinterpretation. But going back
to my classroom, by the time I got back to Massy,
so that was two thousand and seven, the classes were
sort of fifty to fifty town and country, and it
always seemed to me that the country kids had basic,

(03:54):
more general sort of experience and they often had help
with the cards whatever, depending on the parenting, of course.
And as I moved through to the University of Waikato,
there tended to be some more protection going on, but urban.
The urban kids were there because they really thought agriculture

(04:15):
might be the future, so they had a different sort
of resilience. But what I usually found quite quite extraordinary
at the University of Waikato there were people coming in
from other disciplines and yeah, they were often the ones
who didn't think that exams were really for them, sort

(04:35):
of coming out of the creative and performing arts or
social sciences. And while we always try and assist all students,
the exams are a part of life. In if we
don't call them exams, they might be the interview. We
don't want people going to pieces because they've stuffed up
a question at an interview. That's how you learn. Exams

(04:58):
are how you learn.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
We've been saying lots about lots of things, and we've
neglected to mention your excellent column on trends that are appairing.
This dates back to a rabobank story or report earlier
in the year, so people can read that one online.
But it's interesting that the theme of the column is
really about biologicals. And I must say I didn't know

(05:20):
what a biological was, but I learned a lot reading
your column. So thereof teased your column. People can read
it on the Country, dot co dot nz. Thank you,
you go well chairs Bye