May 5, 2025 • 7 mins
A world-renowned expert on livestock methane and climate is in high demand globally for his clear, science-based communication. With methane such a hot topic in NZ agriculture, he’s got great insights to share, especially on why it should be measured differently from long-lived gases.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He is a world renowned expert on livestock, methane and climate.
His name is doctor Frank Mittlerner. He's been in New
Zealand for a seminar and Q and A hosted by
Beef and Lamb New Zealand. I guess, Frank, one of
your real messages is that ruminants can actually add to
a net cooling effect on the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, yeah, I mean it's complicated. What really can help
reduce warming is us to reduce methane, and that is
something that we can do through feeding, through breeding, through
the newer management, and that really gets us into a
position where we can be part of a climate solution
if we handle this goes right.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
See I'm no scientist, far from it. But my take
on this is that there are no more ruminants on
the planet as I understand it that there was. Saying
nineteen ninety the real problem around climate change and global
warming comes from man burning fossil fuels. The ruminants the
innocent victims here.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, it's not quite as easy. I mean, yes, the
burning of fossil fuel makes up the line's share of
greenhouse gases leading to climate change, but rumored livestock also
plays a role because our four legged friends are producing
that gas is produced in the digestive tract. It's spelched
out and some of it comes from the manure, and
(01:25):
once it's in the air, it lnders around for about
a decade. The good thing about it is if we mitigate,
if we reduce that gas, and if we do so
in a meaningful way, and we can reduce methane concentration
in the air, and that reduces warming, and that is
something our industry can do that other industries cannot. And
(01:45):
that's while yes, fossil fuel is the number one culprit,
livestock plays the role as well, and so can we
as the ones having custody over those animals.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
What about the biogenic carbon cycle? Doesn't that neutralize in
everything ultimately at the end of the.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Day, No, it doesn't. It's true that the carbon that
becomes methane originates in the atmosphere as COEO two carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere is taken on by plants
that our animals eat. The carbon is converted into carbohydrates
and it's made into methane and then the ten years later,
(02:25):
going back to SEO two, so that's the cycle you're
talking about. And while we are not adding new additional
carbon to a constant herd of cattle, while that methane
is in the form of methane, it is a significant
warming agent and that's why we need to mitigate it.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
What are the base wise to mitigate methane emissions? Are
we talking fade, aditives, vaccines? What's the holy grail here,
doctor Frank?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, it really depends on where we're talking. So I
live in California, and in California where we have more
intensity housed animals, manure management is number one, and here
particularly the use of unerot digestors, feed additives is also important.
But here under your conditions in New Zealand, where you
have more grazing animals, it might come down more to breeding.
(03:13):
There is now knowledge about methane being a heritable trade,
so it's passed on for the month to the offspring
and we can breed accordingly. So breeding is one aspect.
Another one is potentially a vaccine. A third one might
be a solution such as a bowlus that slowly releases
(03:35):
an active ingredient that reduces methane. And then there also
changes to our forage management that can help reduce this gas.
There is not one silver bullet, but there are multiple
ways we can reduce methane, and if we do it
to the order of ten, fifteen to twenty percent, then
(03:56):
we can be a significant part of a climate solution.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You're a big fan of using a carrot not a
stick when it comes to farming.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yes, I am, because I know the carrot works and
the stick does not. And what I mean by that
is the stick is an approach way where a government
uses rules and regulations, find and or taxes to force
farmers to do a certain thing that has been tried
all over the world with very limited success. In California,
we use the opposite approach, the carrot approach, which means
(04:28):
we financially incentivize the reduction of methane, and that has
been shown to work. We are asked to reduce forty
percent of our methane from the livestock and dairy sector
in California, and using this voluntary incentive based approach has
led our farmers to already by now achieve a very
(04:51):
large percentage of these reductions. So we need to reduce
seven million metric tons we already have reduced five million
metric tons, and that's a huge compli that is the
result of the government working with instead of against, our farmers.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I'm with you there, Frank, because I've always been of
the opinion that the market will always determine farmer behavior
or business behavior. If there's a premium for lower missions products,
farmers will be into it, boots and all.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, the market is very important. And yes, the reason
why this whole current approach works in California is because
there is a carbon market and if they were incentives
to reduce methane, farmers would readily respond to it. If
there were penalties, let's say, then that response would be
(05:45):
much less and much harder. You know, changes would be
much harder to achieve.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Is the current carbon market around our ets emissions trading scheme?
Is it a bit like the Emperor's new clothes? Are
we going about it the wrong way here in the
zeal and getting good productive farmland and planting it in
pine trees. We're trying to stop the rot as it were,
But surely that's not the solution when we've got nine
or ten billion people to feed.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, you know, I don't like to meddle with other localities,
policies and so on. But since you ask, I mean,
I don't really think that this is a good idea.
I think there's a lot of rethinking now in New
Zealand respect to whether or not monoculture pine trees were
a good idea. I don't think it's a good idea.
(06:33):
I think that we need to work with our farming
sector to make it the best it can be. We
need to work with our farmers to give tools into
their hands that help them optimize not just productivity, but
also their environmental performance. Because we do have societal goals,
society's asking for us to work with them, but somebody
(06:55):
else has to flit the bill.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Doctor Frank Mittlerna, thank you very much for your time.
And I look at the wildfires that you guys have
recently suffered in California. Is that going to be our
future here in New Zealand in twenty or thirty years time?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
You know, I really hope it's not. It won't be.
It is a result in California of insufficient land management.
They have a long time ago stopped to really managing forests,
and that means we have a lot of fuel build up,
and that then catches on fire. We call the fire
(07:31):
season the fifth season of the year. And I hope
you'll be SPAREDU men.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Doctor Frank Mittlerner. I would ask you about Trump, but
then you might get in trouble and someone might be
listening in the US, and you might not be allowed
back home. So I will love you and leave you.
Thank you very much for your time, and thanks for
spreading some of your expertise to the New Zealand farming
industry chairs.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Thank you very much. Thanks leving me
He is a world renowned expert on livestock, methane and climate.
His name is doctor Frank Mittlerner. He's been in New
Zealand for a seminar and Q and A hosted by
Beef and Lamb New Zealand. I guess, Frank, one of
your real messages is that ruminants can actually add to
a net cooling effect on the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, yeah, I mean it's complicated. What really can help
reduce warming is us to reduce methane, and that is
something that we can do through feeding, through breeding, through
the newer management, and that really gets us into a
position where we can be part of a climate solution
if we handle this goes right.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
See I'm no scientist, far from it. But my take
on this is that there are no more ruminants on
the planet as I understand it that there was. Saying
nineteen ninety the real problem around climate change and global
warming comes from man burning fossil fuels. The ruminants the
innocent victims here.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, it's not quite as easy. I mean, yes, the
burning of fossil fuel makes up the line's share of
greenhouse gases leading to climate change, but rumored livestock also
plays a role because our four legged friends are producing
that gas is produced in the digestive tract. It's spelched
out and some of it comes from the manure, and
(01:25):
once it's in the air, it lnders around for about
a decade. The good thing about it is if we mitigate,
if we reduce that gas, and if we do so
in a meaningful way, and we can reduce methane concentration
in the air, and that reduces warming, and that is
something our industry can do that other industries cannot. And
(01:45):
that's while yes, fossil fuel is the number one culprit,
livestock plays the role as well, and so can we
as the ones having custody over those animals.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
What about the biogenic carbon cycle? Doesn't that neutralize in
everything ultimately at the end of the.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Day, No, it doesn't. It's true that the carbon that
becomes methane originates in the atmosphere as COEO two carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere is taken on by plants
that our animals eat. The carbon is converted into carbohydrates
and it's made into methane and then the ten years later,
(02:25):
going back to SEO two, so that's the cycle you're
talking about. And while we are not adding new additional
carbon to a constant herd of cattle, while that methane
is in the form of methane, it is a significant
warming agent and that's why we need to mitigate it.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
What are the base wise to mitigate methane emissions? Are
we talking fade, aditives, vaccines? What's the holy grail here,
doctor Frank?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, it really depends on where we're talking. So I
live in California, and in California where we have more
intensity housed animals, manure management is number one, and here
particularly the use of unerot digestors, feed additives is also important.
But here under your conditions in New Zealand, where you
have more grazing animals, it might come down more to breeding.
(03:13):
There is now knowledge about methane being a heritable trade,
so it's passed on for the month to the offspring
and we can breed accordingly. So breeding is one aspect.
Another one is potentially a vaccine. A third one might
be a solution such as a bowlus that slowly releases
(03:35):
an active ingredient that reduces methane. And then there also
changes to our forage management that can help reduce this gas.
There is not one silver bullet, but there are multiple
ways we can reduce methane, and if we do it
to the order of ten, fifteen to twenty percent, then
(03:56):
we can be a significant part of a climate solution.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You're a big fan of using a carrot not a
stick when it comes to farming.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yes, I am, because I know the carrot works and
the stick does not. And what I mean by that
is the stick is an approach way where a government
uses rules and regulations, find and or taxes to force
farmers to do a certain thing that has been tried
all over the world with very limited success. In California,
we use the opposite approach, the carrot approach, which means
(04:28):
we financially incentivize the reduction of methane, and that has
been shown to work. We are asked to reduce forty
percent of our methane from the livestock and dairy sector
in California, and using this voluntary incentive based approach has
led our farmers to already by now achieve a very
(04:51):
large percentage of these reductions. So we need to reduce
seven million metric tons we already have reduced five million
metric tons, and that's a huge compli that is the
result of the government working with instead of against, our farmers.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I'm with you there, Frank, because I've always been of
the opinion that the market will always determine farmer behavior
or business behavior. If there's a premium for lower missions products,
farmers will be into it, boots and all.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah, the market is very important. And yes, the reason
why this whole current approach works in California is because
there is a carbon market and if they were incentives
to reduce methane, farmers would readily respond to it. If
there were penalties, let's say, then that response would be
(05:45):
much less and much harder. You know, changes would be
much harder to achieve.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Is the current carbon market around our ets emissions trading scheme?
Is it a bit like the Emperor's new clothes? Are
we going about it the wrong way here in the
zeal and getting good productive farmland and planting it in
pine trees. We're trying to stop the rot as it were,
But surely that's not the solution when we've got nine
or ten billion people to feed.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, you know, I don't like to meddle with other localities,
policies and so on. But since you ask, I mean,
I don't really think that this is a good idea.
I think there's a lot of rethinking now in New
Zealand respect to whether or not monoculture pine trees were
a good idea. I don't think it's a good idea.
(06:33):
I think that we need to work with our farming
sector to make it the best it can be. We
need to work with our farmers to give tools into
their hands that help them optimize not just productivity, but
also their environmental performance. Because we do have societal goals,
society's asking for us to work with them, but somebody
(06:55):
else has to flit the bill.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Doctor Frank Mittlerna, thank you very much for your time.
And I look at the wildfires that you guys have
recently suffered in California. Is that going to be our
future here in New Zealand in twenty or thirty years time?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
You know, I really hope it's not. It won't be.
It is a result in California of insufficient land management.
They have a long time ago stopped to really managing forests,
and that means we have a lot of fuel build up,
and that then catches on fire. We call the fire
(07:31):
season the fifth season of the year. And I hope
you'll be SPAREDU men.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Doctor Frank Mittlerner. I would ask you about Trump, but
then you might get in trouble and someone might be
listening in the US, and you might not be allowed
back home. So I will love you and leave you.
Thank you very much for your time, and thanks for
spreading some of your expertise to the New Zealand farming
industry chairs.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Thank you very much. Thanks leving me
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