August 5, 2025 • 6 mins
The Minister of Agriculture and Trade is in Thailand but when is he going to Washington to plead our case against Trump's tariffs?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Go to New Zealand, Welcome to the country. One night
in Bangkok. I think it's one morning in Bangkok. He's
over there somewhere, the Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McLay.
We go straight to him and then we'll tell you
what's on the rest of the show later, because he's
a busy man. He's seven o'clock in the morning over there.
He's got to go and do his gym session. Todd McLay.
(00:20):
As I said, Minister of Agriculture and Trade, what are
you doing in Thailand? Are you in Bangkok?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, Jamie, good afternoon. I am it's a great song.
I remember that, and I was told just yesterday it
was about a big chest tournament. Actually not what I
thought was going on in Bangkok. Hey, yes, I am here.
I've come out just to meet with the government. We
have a free trade agreement with some twenty years old.
At the beginning of this year it ended fully into
fourth so no restriction, and a few of that very
(00:47):
exported are saying they're finding it a bit harder getting
product into the market than they should under that agreement.
So I thought it'd come up and talk directly to
them and we're making some progress here. They're very keen
on New Zealand product. They're just having a bit of
challenges with the system, so we'll keep talking to them.
I think we can probably work it out. It's just
another one of these cases where we enter in agreements.
(01:07):
Everyone has obligations. You're just going to make sure it
works for New Zealand exporters. And guess what, it always
seems to be deiry at the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Have they got a case of Trump is them?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, it's just a change in the system. This is
the only trade agreement where it becomes fully liberalized, and
so there shouldn't be any restriction at all. In anything,
the trade works really well. Two countries has grown. We
buy a lot more from them than we sell them
or to its pretty well and a lot of what
we put in this market is process further and then
(01:38):
exported everywhere. So it's just one of these cases of
working through it. I decided it's been going on for
a bit long and I wanted to raise it to
ministerial level, and they've given me a commitment to sort
it out over the next handful of months, So we'll
work with them on that.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay, Thailand one point six billion dollars worth to our economy.
I've tried or of exports. We see them there, Indonesia
one point nine seven. These are real growth areas, aren't they.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So Southeast Asia is a priority that Chris Lackson has
set for the country. Actually, you know, New Zealand's a
little place, a long way from everywhere, but Southeast Asia
is the fastest growing region anywhere. And their process is that,
you know, their factories want high quality, safe food products
are put through. They had a lot of value creating
(02:21):
jobs in New Zealand and over here, and then they exported,
but their consumers are very keen on what we produce.
I went to a supermarket yesterday and they had fruit
and beads from all over the world. And gee, some
of the New Zealand apples and you know other things
keep we ridden here is selling for a wonderful price.
So we're just going to keep producing and keep making
(02:43):
sure the door's open to exporting. And every time we're
sending something overseas produced by a New Zealand farmer, that
creates jobs in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So are you flying directly from Bangkok to Washington?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
No? From here onto Indonesia growing market, and you'll know
there we had a bit of problems getting onions and
earlier and with reached agreements on it. Just come out
and make sure that everything's working there. We're working on
the date to get up to Washington, and just got
up this morning early and seen correspondence, so it's not
too far away. I'm going up there to make the
(03:15):
case that actually the additional five percent tariff is unwarranted
and unnecessary and try and get a better understanding of
where they're heading from here. We're just going to start
getting certainty because for every export into that market, particularly meat,
it's getting challenging, not only the caiff, right, but the
suggestion that things change all the time. So you will
(03:36):
have heard over the weekend after the announcement on Friday,
I had a call very quickly with the equivalent of
the US Trade Minister, their trade the ambassador Career. He
and I spoke less than twenty four hours after President
Trump's announcement. He invited me up there to sort of
work through this and have a better understanding, and so
over the next two weeks, I'll be on a plane
to Washington.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
If we had run a tried to deficit with the US.
Alia does would we have got ten percent? Is it
as simple as that?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It is as simple as that, that's right, he said
to me. Look, he was very open in Frank. I've
met him three times around the world. We've had calls
and conversations and you know, a few messages and so on.
He said, didn't matter if you had camped out here
in Washington, if you'd had a trade deal or you negotiating.
Any country that had a trade surplus against the US
(04:25):
last year is fifteen percent or more. So that's Corea
who have a deal, Japan who are working on one,
they're at fifteen percent, Switzerland thirty nine percent, a very
big deficit. On the other case, you've got Australia that
brought more from Australia than from the US than they
sold them. The UK the same there at ten percent.
(04:46):
So he said, you know, that was the decision, and
like it or not, that's what it would have been.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
We're very close to being trade neutral with the US.
Though maybe we just need to go maybe we just
need to buy some more of this stuff and get
into a trade deficit and them down to tame percent.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well, one of the things I want to understand is
the mechanism they're thinking about what happens, because he said
it's based on last year. So as an example of
this year, we go to deficit, we buy more from them,
Will it change and how? And our exporters need to
know that. It's clear to as I talk to many
of them that the ten percent that was anounce some
time ago, they've been able to pass on, not all
(05:22):
of them, but many of them. Now as the extra
five percent that's challenging, they'll have to look whether they
can absorb that or in some cases they're diverting product
to other markets because they're getting better prices. We're going
to give it this way. And look, I feel for
the beef exporters because you know they've men particularly hard hit.
The US does not have enough beef, they must import it.
(05:43):
We know they like New Zealand beef going to the
Hamburgers and so on, and so we're going to get
a bit more certainty. But on ten dollars worth of beef,
it costs fifty cents more compared to Australia, and Jamie,
I don't know whether the Australian beef will be ten
bucks and now is ten fifty or they're both eleven.
We know they want the product. They're the biggest harm
being done to exports all around the world at the moment,
(06:04):
apart from the escurbing costs of the tariff, is actually
the uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Indeed, Todd McLay early morning in Bangkok, thank you for
some of your time. You've got time to go and
do that gym session before you get on with your
day's work. Thank you very much for your time, and
you keep up the good work on behalf of us.
I'm not sure whether going to Washington could be a
waste of your time, but there is a thought, of course,
that you don't want to poke the beer.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, that's right. But look, we've got a constructive relationship
on trade. There are challenges at the moment. We're going
to get up there and keep talking. You know, it's
as simple as this. If we sit at home, then
we get forgotten. In this case with the US, it
is challenging, but it's important to get up there and
make the jalance case.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Well, you could never be accused of sitting at home.
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Thank you
Go to New Zealand, Welcome to the country. One night
in Bangkok. I think it's one morning in Bangkok. He's
over there somewhere, the Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McLay.
We go straight to him and then we'll tell you
what's on the rest of the show later, because he's
a busy man. He's seven o'clock in the morning over there.
He's got to go and do his gym session. Todd McLay.
(00:20):
As I said, Minister of Agriculture and Trade, what are
you doing in Thailand? Are you in Bangkok?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, Jamie, good afternoon. I am it's a great song.
I remember that, and I was told just yesterday it
was about a big chest tournament. Actually not what I
thought was going on in Bangkok. Hey, yes, I am here.
I've come out just to meet with the government. We
have a free trade agreement with some twenty years old.
At the beginning of this year it ended fully into
fourth so no restriction, and a few of that very
(00:47):
exported are saying they're finding it a bit harder getting
product into the market than they should under that agreement.
So I thought it'd come up and talk directly to
them and we're making some progress here. They're very keen
on New Zealand product. They're just having a bit of
challenges with the system, so we'll keep talking to them.
I think we can probably work it out. It's just
another one of these cases where we enter in agreements.
(01:07):
Everyone has obligations. You're just going to make sure it
works for New Zealand exporters. And guess what, it always
seems to be deiry at the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Have they got a case of Trump is them?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, it's just a change in the system. This is
the only trade agreement where it becomes fully liberalized, and
so there shouldn't be any restriction at all. In anything,
the trade works really well. Two countries has grown. We
buy a lot more from them than we sell them
or to its pretty well and a lot of what
we put in this market is process further and then
(01:38):
exported everywhere. So it's just one of these cases of
working through it. I decided it's been going on for
a bit long and I wanted to raise it to
ministerial level, and they've given me a commitment to sort
it out over the next handful of months, So we'll
work with them on that.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay, Thailand one point six billion dollars worth to our economy.
I've tried or of exports. We see them there, Indonesia
one point nine seven. These are real growth areas, aren't they.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So Southeast Asia is a priority that Chris Lackson has
set for the country. Actually, you know, New Zealand's a
little place, a long way from everywhere, but Southeast Asia
is the fastest growing region anywhere. And their process is that,
you know, their factories want high quality, safe food products
are put through. They had a lot of value creating
(02:21):
jobs in New Zealand and over here, and then they exported,
but their consumers are very keen on what we produce.
I went to a supermarket yesterday and they had fruit
and beads from all over the world. And gee, some
of the New Zealand apples and you know other things
keep we ridden here is selling for a wonderful price.
So we're just going to keep producing and keep making
(02:43):
sure the door's open to exporting. And every time we're
sending something overseas produced by a New Zealand farmer, that
creates jobs in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So are you flying directly from Bangkok to Washington?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
No? From here onto Indonesia growing market, and you'll know
there we had a bit of problems getting onions and
earlier and with reached agreements on it. Just come out
and make sure that everything's working there. We're working on
the date to get up to Washington, and just got
up this morning early and seen correspondence, so it's not
too far away. I'm going up there to make the
(03:15):
case that actually the additional five percent tariff is unwarranted
and unnecessary and try and get a better understanding of
where they're heading from here. We're just going to start
getting certainty because for every export into that market, particularly meat,
it's getting challenging, not only the caiff, right, but the
suggestion that things change all the time. So you will
(03:36):
have heard over the weekend after the announcement on Friday,
I had a call very quickly with the equivalent of
the US Trade Minister, their trade the ambassador Career. He
and I spoke less than twenty four hours after President
Trump's announcement. He invited me up there to sort of
work through this and have a better understanding, and so
over the next two weeks, I'll be on a plane
to Washington.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
If we had run a tried to deficit with the US.
Alia does would we have got ten percent? Is it
as simple as that?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It is as simple as that, that's right, he said
to me. Look, he was very open in Frank. I've
met him three times around the world. We've had calls
and conversations and you know, a few messages and so on.
He said, didn't matter if you had camped out here
in Washington, if you'd had a trade deal or you negotiating.
Any country that had a trade surplus against the US
(04:25):
last year is fifteen percent or more. So that's Corea
who have a deal, Japan who are working on one,
they're at fifteen percent, Switzerland thirty nine percent, a very
big deficit. On the other case, you've got Australia that
brought more from Australia than from the US than they
sold them. The UK the same there at ten percent.
(04:46):
So he said, you know, that was the decision, and
like it or not, that's what it would have been.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
We're very close to being trade neutral with the US.
Though maybe we just need to go maybe we just
need to buy some more of this stuff and get
into a trade deficit and them down to tame percent.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Well, one of the things I want to understand is
the mechanism they're thinking about what happens, because he said
it's based on last year. So as an example of
this year, we go to deficit, we buy more from them,
Will it change and how? And our exporters need to
know that. It's clear to as I talk to many
of them that the ten percent that was anounce some
time ago, they've been able to pass on, not all
(05:22):
of them, but many of them. Now as the extra
five percent that's challenging, they'll have to look whether they
can absorb that or in some cases they're diverting product
to other markets because they're getting better prices. We're going
to give it this way. And look, I feel for
the beef exporters because you know they've men particularly hard hit.
The US does not have enough beef, they must import it.
(05:43):
We know they like New Zealand beef going to the
Hamburgers and so on, and so we're going to get
a bit more certainty. But on ten dollars worth of beef,
it costs fifty cents more compared to Australia, and Jamie,
I don't know whether the Australian beef will be ten
bucks and now is ten fifty or they're both eleven.
We know they want the product. They're the biggest harm
being done to exports all around the world at the moment,
(06:04):
apart from the escurbing costs of the tariff, is actually
the uncertainty.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Indeed, Todd McLay early morning in Bangkok, thank you for
some of your time. You've got time to go and
do that gym session before you get on with your
day's work. Thank you very much for your time, and
you keep up the good work on behalf of us.
I'm not sure whether going to Washington could be a
waste of your time, but there is a thought, of course,
that you don't want to poke the beer.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, that's right. But look, we've got a constructive relationship
on trade. There are challenges at the moment. We're going
to get up there and keep talking. You know, it's
as simple as this. If we sit at home, then
we get forgotten. In this case with the US, it
is challenging, but it's important to get up there and
make the jalance case.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Well, you could never be accused of sitting at home.
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Thank you
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