November 5, 2025 • 9 mins
The NZ First leader is at his combative and argumentative best when it comes to the Alliance and Fonterra farmer votes. We also debate unemployment rates, Te Pāti Māori, an FTA with India, the Pike River movie, and whether he was interviewed for Jacinda’s unauthorised biography.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Winston Peters as the Minister of Foreign Affairs. He's been busy,
just back from Scandinavia. Winston, Now that I'm a pensioner,
I'm of of an age where I might consider voting
for New Zealand first. But how could I vote for
a party that is so wrong when it comes to
issues such as the Alliance and Fonterra votes.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, this is actually staggering. You remember the silver Ferns
farm sale, Remember civil civil firms and the meat sale
to China.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, hang on, it's a joint venture, Winston, not a sale.
It's a joint venture.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Excuse me, excuse me. You're trying to make excuse me
before you get the first answer back for me. You
see what I mean. You haven't had a leg to
stand on Silver Fern's farms. They ratted it up to death, falsely,
they ratted it down, the earnings falsely gave the farmers
one quarter information together the Chinese and the rest is history.
And the directors took an eight million dollar bonus. You
remember that. Now you're not even asking the right questions
(00:52):
This as farming show should be asking Harrel and his directors,
how much are you guys going to get at the
end of.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
This well, Miles Harrell said on this very show, mister Peters,
that there were no incentive bonuses for the Fonterra directors
over the sale of the consumer brands. We've got that
on tape.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
No, no, this is one on one stuff. I'm talking
about the built in outcome when the thing is completed.
He didn't answer that question, and lookers not with this
two experiences of democracy, given that we started the Anchor
brand in eighteen eighty six and worked on it all
this time. For this thing to be sold off to
an international artfit, it could be gone tomorrow. I just
come back from norder countries. You know why they've gone
(01:32):
rocketing past us because they maximize added value for their
own workers, for their own people, for their own e comment,
for their own wealth.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Hey, what happened to what happens to individual property rights?
You don't own Fonterra. About eight or nine thousand farmer
shareholders own Fonterra. It's their decision, not yours.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh yes, So why did they come to Parliament twenty
twenty one and all the times before that? Getting Parliament
is brought to get to where they wanted to go
to if they could have done all by themselves, why
were they always relying upon Parliament? And I know this
from a long way back. I mean, I come up
a dairy farm and we've come to the Parliament to
forget the protection we need to give ourselves an advantage,
and then all of a sudden, this monopoly they've got
(02:11):
has now been given to another outfit, an a French
one of that. And my warning to them, miss, do
you think we're going to give on parliament to protection
to make a profit to sell to other country. No,
we're a nationalists. We put our country first, not last.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well, you're certainly a nationalistic sort of person, I'll give
you that. What about the Alliance Group? Literally they had
no choice. Dawn Meats was the best offer on the table.
What would you have them do? No New Zealand company
wanted at a bar of it or couldn't afford to.
Would you have sunk government money into a unprofitable red
meat meat industry.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No? What I do is make sure that the meat
meat industry is profitable. That's what our problem business country.
We should be out there maximizing added value and if
people can't do the job, get out of the job
and give it to somebody else. What we've got here
is people who are on the back of the taxpayer,
on the back of the monopoly, in the back of
the country's century old history of being an agricultural power.
(03:09):
US can't do the job. But they stay there, massive
pay and massive incomes and allous And they say, the
bank's calling up. Has anybody gone to the bank? Did
the government that I belong to do They go to
the bank and say, hang on a minute, we're not
having this. We want to see what an outcome is. No,
nothing is happening there. So there goes two and a
zero added value major industry. One to the to the
(03:29):
Irish who are not buying it because it's a failure.
One to the French because they're not who are not
buying because it's a failure. No, it's because of short
term profit. And within three years the guarantee of the
supply will be removed. And then when where will the
farmers be and their sons and daughters and their granchildren
who should be going into the farming industry.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, if you and I, if you and I are
both about in three years, we'll revisit this one let's
talk about things we are.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Not very happy to visited that I'm happy to reb.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Will you still be around it? Will you still be
around politically?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
In three I'll be probably trying to save you and
this country the same time.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes, worst unemployment. You could do something on the unemployment
numbers instead, instead of worrying about the red meat industry.
Worst unemployment numbers in a decade.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
All forecast in the Treasury report to around Robinson before
the last election. All this was forecast two years ago
by Treasure to be executed. What it was. Our trouble
is we haven't turned around fast enough, But turn around
we will.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
It's a party, Mari. I know that you're a stickler
for protocol and etiquette, especially in the House that they
are unraveling before our very eyes.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, my first speech that after the last election, I
said this part is you're not looking to be around
for long, that they would blow apart, and I didn't
think it take that quickly. But they're blowing apart as
we speak because they've applied the same angst and cure
to themselves that they've tried to apply to the rest department.
We were going to take it from them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You realize there's only one pathway to get a labor
led coalition government, don't you, And that pathway involves you.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
What's the point of that statement.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Well, you said you won't work with Chris Sipkins, but
you haven't said you won't work with Labor First.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I'm not I'm not having you or anybody else tell
me what my party strategy is.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, you've told us what your strategy is.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I'll give you. I'll give you one one sent it's
going to keep on climbing up on the poles and
we'll be the determining factor for the outcome of a
better economy and a better social cohesive country as we
go forward into the next three years.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Do you reckon that the Act Party in New Zealand
First will cannibalize the National Party vote in next year's election,
Because I agree with you, for what it's worth, I
think New Zealand First is a double digit party.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, we already here. Now that's the point. Look at
the latest polls, National Party of what the internal polls
are saying. But we're not sitting on our roles here.
We're out there flat out around the regions giving O
the best list of candidates. We can have it, put
together experience and set the go at the next election.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Are you undermining your prime Minister?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well, you cated him on social media, he said, I
you said we.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, hey, you know, having gone up there for the
last meeting with those people, and I said to him, look, guys,
I've been in this game fifty years and fifty years
we're waiting for a deal. Do you not think we've
been patient enough? You know? They said to me, you
know once and we think you're right, So we're going
to sign a deal. So yes, it is we. We
use we and us and how it's features. Do you
notice that? Not I and me? It's we in us.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
All right, let's just finish on a couple fta with India.
Are we getting close? You make told Maclay and I
know you have a good relationship with him. Seems to
be doing a good job for us.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
He's working seriously hard on He gave me a brief
the other day. I can't give you the details because
a lot of things to be got yet done, but
you know, as in terms of speed given it's nineteen
eighty five, do you remember this, Mike Moore comes back
from India with the whole group of businessmen and he
says he secured five hundred million dollars of potential orders.
You know, I must have for nothing. So all these
(06:57):
years we've been wedding and all of a sudden we've
got going by going up to not just the capital,
we've gone to the states of the India where there
is some real powerhouse there and got some movement at last.
So yes, I'm looking forward to but I'm going to
make sure that this deal is in our interests.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Are you peeved off? You weren't in the Park River movie.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I'm very pleased. I'm not in the Pike movement because
of the sham and I can tell you that this
is a murder scene and what's happened here is mostly irresponsible. No,
I'm not picked off, and I'm not building the watch
darn thing because the only reason why there was a
full scale inquiry is because New Zealand first demanded every
other party was having to go ahead.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
What no, I just have you've seen the movie just
then us climbing all the glory.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, if you're claiming all the glory for shouting down
the pop inquiry and then conquering the place up. When
we don't know what the answer is, what's going on
in there, then that is an abiding disgrace. No, I'm
with Lester Monk and what's his name down there, Bernie
most Yeah, Bernie Bernie. I'm with Bernie Monk. Now, Bernie Monk,
you know, has gone and said that the only person
(08:04):
has done it right here is a guy called Winston Peter. Now,
I'm not posting, but I have worked underground, eleven miles underground,
actually through underground and the snowy Mollons, and I knew
something about this, and I could see from the word
go that this was a murder scene where people lost
their lives and should never have and a whole lot
of political phase. We're responsible for that in letting the
rules be loose in terms of surveillance and proper industrial
(08:27):
relations procedures. It's self crime and they've got away with it.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
A final question for you on your former colleague Jasinder Ardom.
Were you interviewed for the unauthorized biography? No, well, that's
a short and sharp answer, Winston Peters. Thanks for your time.
It's often an argument I can never win. By the way,
you're wrong about Alliance and Fonterra, but will agree to disagree.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, we'll see who's going to be right or wrong
in the next three years and year four. Stand back and
watch who told you so? And I hope you'll make
sure that every day you've got to get up and
apologize for letting the future farmers of this country who
can buy only against New Zealand competition to buy the
farm in the first place, and now they're flogging off
(09:12):
the profits to two other economies. They're not coming here
because they're Santa Claus. They're coming here because they are
being allowed to rip us off all under the oversight
of a marvelous program all the country show that it
is not doing a style properly.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
That's me told off. I'll tell you what. I'm not
going to bet against your being around in three years
time you've lost none of your barck or you buy it.
Thanks for your time, Thank
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You to have a good day.
Winston Peters as the Minister of Foreign Affairs. He's been busy,
just back from Scandinavia. Winston, Now that I'm a pensioner,
I'm of of an age where I might consider voting
for New Zealand first. But how could I vote for
a party that is so wrong when it comes to
issues such as the Alliance and Fonterra votes.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, this is actually staggering. You remember the silver Ferns
farm sale, Remember civil civil firms and the meat sale
to China.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, hang on, it's a joint venture, Winston, not a sale.
It's a joint venture.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Excuse me, excuse me. You're trying to make excuse me
before you get the first answer back for me. You
see what I mean. You haven't had a leg to
stand on Silver Fern's farms. They ratted it up to death, falsely,
they ratted it down, the earnings falsely gave the farmers
one quarter information together the Chinese and the rest is history.
And the directors took an eight million dollar bonus. You
remember that. Now you're not even asking the right questions
(00:52):
This as farming show should be asking Harrel and his directors,
how much are you guys going to get at the
end of.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
This well, Miles Harrell said on this very show, mister Peters,
that there were no incentive bonuses for the Fonterra directors
over the sale of the consumer brands. We've got that
on tape.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
No, no, this is one on one stuff. I'm talking
about the built in outcome when the thing is completed.
He didn't answer that question, and lookers not with this
two experiences of democracy, given that we started the Anchor
brand in eighteen eighty six and worked on it all
this time. For this thing to be sold off to
an international artfit, it could be gone tomorrow. I just
come back from norder countries. You know why they've gone
(01:32):
rocketing past us because they maximize added value for their
own workers, for their own people, for their own e comment,
for their own wealth.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Hey, what happened to what happens to individual property rights?
You don't own Fonterra. About eight or nine thousand farmer
shareholders own Fonterra. It's their decision, not yours.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh yes, So why did they come to Parliament twenty
twenty one and all the times before that? Getting Parliament
is brought to get to where they wanted to go
to if they could have done all by themselves, why
were they always relying upon Parliament? And I know this
from a long way back. I mean, I come up
a dairy farm and we've come to the Parliament to
forget the protection we need to give ourselves an advantage,
and then all of a sudden, this monopoly they've got
(02:11):
has now been given to another outfit, an a French
one of that. And my warning to them, miss, do
you think we're going to give on parliament to protection
to make a profit to sell to other country. No,
we're a nationalists. We put our country first, not last.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well, you're certainly a nationalistic sort of person, I'll give
you that. What about the Alliance Group? Literally they had
no choice. Dawn Meats was the best offer on the table.
What would you have them do? No New Zealand company
wanted at a bar of it or couldn't afford to.
Would you have sunk government money into a unprofitable red
meat meat industry.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No? What I do is make sure that the meat
meat industry is profitable. That's what our problem business country.
We should be out there maximizing added value and if
people can't do the job, get out of the job
and give it to somebody else. What we've got here
is people who are on the back of the taxpayer,
on the back of the monopoly, in the back of
the country's century old history of being an agricultural power.
(03:09):
US can't do the job. But they stay there, massive
pay and massive incomes and allous And they say, the
bank's calling up. Has anybody gone to the bank? Did
the government that I belong to do They go to
the bank and say, hang on a minute, we're not
having this. We want to see what an outcome is. No,
nothing is happening there. So there goes two and a
zero added value major industry. One to the to the
(03:29):
Irish who are not buying it because it's a failure.
One to the French because they're not who are not
buying because it's a failure. No, it's because of short
term profit. And within three years the guarantee of the
supply will be removed. And then when where will the
farmers be and their sons and daughters and their granchildren
who should be going into the farming industry.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Well, if you and I, if you and I are
both about in three years, we'll revisit this one let's
talk about things we are.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Not very happy to visited that I'm happy to reb.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Will you still be around it? Will you still be
around politically?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
In three I'll be probably trying to save you and
this country the same time.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yes, worst unemployment. You could do something on the unemployment
numbers instead, instead of worrying about the red meat industry.
Worst unemployment numbers in a decade.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
All forecast in the Treasury report to around Robinson before
the last election. All this was forecast two years ago
by Treasure to be executed. What it was. Our trouble
is we haven't turned around fast enough, But turn around
we will.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
It's a party, Mari. I know that you're a stickler
for protocol and etiquette, especially in the House that they
are unraveling before our very eyes.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, my first speech that after the last election, I
said this part is you're not looking to be around
for long, that they would blow apart, and I didn't
think it take that quickly. But they're blowing apart as
we speak because they've applied the same angst and cure
to themselves that they've tried to apply to the rest department.
We were going to take it from them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You realize there's only one pathway to get a labor
led coalition government, don't you, And that pathway involves you.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
What's the point of that statement.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Well, you said you won't work with Chris Sipkins, but
you haven't said you won't work with Labor First.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I'm not I'm not having you or anybody else tell
me what my party strategy is.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, you've told us what your strategy is.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I'll give you. I'll give you one one sent it's
going to keep on climbing up on the poles and
we'll be the determining factor for the outcome of a
better economy and a better social cohesive country as we
go forward into the next three years.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Do you reckon that the Act Party in New Zealand
First will cannibalize the National Party vote in next year's election,
Because I agree with you, for what it's worth, I
think New Zealand First is a double digit party.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, we already here. Now that's the point. Look at
the latest polls, National Party of what the internal polls
are saying. But we're not sitting on our roles here.
We're out there flat out around the regions giving O
the best list of candidates. We can have it, put
together experience and set the go at the next election.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Are you undermining your prime Minister?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Well, you cated him on social media, he said, I
you said we.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, hey, you know, having gone up there for the
last meeting with those people, and I said to him, look, guys,
I've been in this game fifty years and fifty years
we're waiting for a deal. Do you not think we've
been patient enough? You know? They said to me, you
know once and we think you're right, So we're going
to sign a deal. So yes, it is we. We
use we and us and how it's features. Do you
notice that? Not I and me? It's we in us.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
All right, let's just finish on a couple fta with India.
Are we getting close? You make told Maclay and I
know you have a good relationship with him. Seems to
be doing a good job for us.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
He's working seriously hard on He gave me a brief
the other day. I can't give you the details because
a lot of things to be got yet done, but
you know, as in terms of speed given it's nineteen
eighty five, do you remember this, Mike Moore comes back
from India with the whole group of businessmen and he
says he secured five hundred million dollars of potential orders.
You know, I must have for nothing. So all these
(06:57):
years we've been wedding and all of a sudden we've
got going by going up to not just the capital,
we've gone to the states of the India where there
is some real powerhouse there and got some movement at last.
So yes, I'm looking forward to but I'm going to
make sure that this deal is in our interests.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Are you peeved off? You weren't in the Park River movie.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I'm very pleased. I'm not in the Pike movement because
of the sham and I can tell you that this
is a murder scene and what's happened here is mostly irresponsible. No,
I'm not picked off, and I'm not building the watch
darn thing because the only reason why there was a
full scale inquiry is because New Zealand first demanded every
other party was having to go ahead.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
What no, I just have you've seen the movie just
then us climbing all the glory.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, if you're claiming all the glory for shouting down
the pop inquiry and then conquering the place up. When
we don't know what the answer is, what's going on
in there, then that is an abiding disgrace. No, I'm
with Lester Monk and what's his name down there, Bernie
most Yeah, Bernie Bernie. I'm with Bernie Monk. Now, Bernie Monk,
you know, has gone and said that the only person
(08:04):
has done it right here is a guy called Winston Peter. Now,
I'm not posting, but I have worked underground, eleven miles underground,
actually through underground and the snowy Mollons, and I knew
something about this, and I could see from the word
go that this was a murder scene where people lost
their lives and should never have and a whole lot
of political phase. We're responsible for that in letting the
rules be loose in terms of surveillance and proper industrial
(08:27):
relations procedures. It's self crime and they've got away with it.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
A final question for you on your former colleague Jasinder Ardom.
Were you interviewed for the unauthorized biography? No, well, that's
a short and sharp answer, Winston Peters. Thanks for your time.
It's often an argument I can never win. By the way,
you're wrong about Alliance and Fonterra, but will agree to disagree.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Well, we'll see who's going to be right or wrong
in the next three years and year four. Stand back and
watch who told you so? And I hope you'll make
sure that every day you've got to get up and
apologize for letting the future farmers of this country who
can buy only against New Zealand competition to buy the
farm in the first place, and now they're flogging off
(09:12):
the profits to two other economies. They're not coming here
because they're Santa Claus. They're coming here because they are
being allowed to rip us off all under the oversight
of a marvelous program all the country show that it
is not doing a style properly.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
That's me told off. I'll tell you what. I'm not
going to bet against your being around in three years
time you've lost none of your barck or you buy it.
Thanks for your time, Thank
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You to have a good day.
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