May 6, 2025 • 5 mins
We catch up with the chairwoman of Beef + Lamb NZ in Brussels to talk about a warm reception for her in Europe, declining livestock numbers and no decline in pastoral farms going to carbon forestry.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
She is the chair of Beef and Lamb New Zealand
Canterbury farmer Kate Ackland, but she's not on the farm today.
She's in Brussels, Europe representing us selling our wares over there, Kate.
Today we're going to talk about the drop in livestock
numbers and why Beef and Lamb New Zealand is urging
the government to close carbon farming loopholes before more damage
(00:21):
is done. But first tell me what you're doing in
Brussels on our behalf.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, hi, Jamie. Yes, we come over to Brussels in
the UK every couple of years and the primary services
for us to connect with farmer groups and like minded groups,
government ministers, things like that and just try and form
a bit of a global consensus on how we can
collaborate on some of the challenges that we're all facing.
(00:45):
And I guess just you know, it's harder for some
of those farming groups to throw stones at us if
they've had lunch with us.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, fair enough, there's nothing quite like a face to
face as long as the levy pears are getting their
pounds of flesh from u Kate demand in Europe at
the moment it's really helping Lamb.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, look, there really is, and I think that our
face that some of the similar challenges that we have
in terms of dropping sheep numbers. It's been really interesting
being over here since the FDA, the cold conversation had shifted, so,
you know, a couple of years ago we got quite
a prickly reception, but this time it's really been around
you know, what are those shared challenges and opportunities and
(01:24):
how can we collaborate on things like defending the role
of animal proteins and a healthy diet, getting a bit
of a global narrative on the warming impacts of me
saying so it's been a really positive trip.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Am I right in saying on your farm in Canterbury there,
mid Canterbury, that you're a sheep, beef dairy and deer farmer.
Have you got a finger in all those pies?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We do, although our deer numbers have dropped pretty dramatically
in the last few years, so we're almost out of deer.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well you're not alone there. In the past ten years,
the dear numbers in this country have dropped by a quarter.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They absolutely have, and I think the sheet numbers are
almost the same and it's probably some similar reasons for that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You think it'll be last man standing, last man, woman,
person non binary. I don't know. I'm afraid of offending
people these days, Kate, is that the last person standing
will make a fortune farming sheep.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Look, I would like to think that some of the
policy settings that we've seen come and will start to
have an impact. But you know, an absolutely knowledge a
forestation is a major driver of that, and the government
made some moves last year put some restrictions on the
whole farm sales being converted into forestry. But you know,
as we both know, there's some loopholes that are being
(02:41):
exploited still and there's been some really significant farm sales
and particularly the Hawks day in Southland, which is really concerning.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, where you can drive a truck and trailer unit
through some of those loopholes. You're urging the government to
close them before more damage is done. And part of
the issue is some of the key flows if you
want in guidance that relate to accepting receipts for ordering seedling.
So if you've can claim you've got a receipt before
(03:09):
December the fourth of last year, you're allowed to go
ahead and plant a whole lot of pine trees, perhaps
on good pastoral or even worse arable country. From this
announcement in December last year, we've seen nothing in terms
of action.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, look absolutely, and the intental I think the intent
of it was actually fair enough. I mean, if someone
had purchased the farm with the genuine intent to plant
it at the date the announcement happened, you know, we
understand that. But we do know sort of addedisally that
that farm sales are continuing on the basis of some
pretty questionable evidence, so that that's the loophole. I guess
(03:48):
we really need to see the government closed out.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Will this all sort itself out once the legislation has passed.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We're still really concerned. We know that the government's modeling
is still suggesting some really significant plantings going through to
twenty fifty, so you know, we question whether it will
be enough. In the year of twenty twenty three year,
which is the latest one I've got figures for, there
was sixty nine thousand hectares of new aphorestation, which was
(04:16):
up eight percent on the year before. That's half a
million's documents. You know, these limits are a good start
but I'm concerned that with our the allowance of one
hundred percent offsetting, and I suppose the artificial market that
the carbon market is driving for land, we're going to
continue to see some of this.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Isn't there enough riggle room in there for people who
want to grow forestry or even be carbon farmers, because
I know some of them have no intention there you go.
That's my opinion, not yours, of ever harvesting them. So
you're allowed to plant what up under these new regulations
up to twenty five percent of land class classes one
to six on your own farm, So there's your personal
(04:58):
property rights. That would be a good mix. I know
you've got plenty of forestry on your farm.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh look absolutely, And to be very clear, our concern
is that whole farm's going into trees. Absolutely support the
integration of trees within farms, you know, mosaic landscapes. It's
got to be the way of our farm and future,
I think. But this concern that we have is about
whole farms. And I know this song in your area, Jamie,
that has been brought in blanket planted into trees.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yep, previously arable land. It's criminal anyhow, Kate Eckland. It's
late in the evening Brussels time. Thanks for some of
your time, safe travels home.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Thanks Tommy, nice to speak
She is the chair of Beef and Lamb New Zealand
Canterbury farmer Kate Ackland, but she's not on the farm today.
She's in Brussels, Europe representing us selling our wares over there, Kate.
Today we're going to talk about the drop in livestock
numbers and why Beef and Lamb New Zealand is urging
the government to close carbon farming loopholes before more damage
(00:21):
is done. But first tell me what you're doing in
Brussels on our behalf.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, hi, Jamie. Yes, we come over to Brussels in
the UK every couple of years and the primary services
for us to connect with farmer groups and like minded groups,
government ministers, things like that and just try and form
a bit of a global consensus on how we can
collaborate on some of the challenges that we're all facing.
(00:45):
And I guess just you know, it's harder for some
of those farming groups to throw stones at us if
they've had lunch with us.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, fair enough, there's nothing quite like a face to
face as long as the levy pears are getting their
pounds of flesh from u Kate demand in Europe at
the moment it's really helping Lamb.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, look, there really is, and I think that our
face that some of the similar challenges that we have
in terms of dropping sheep numbers. It's been really interesting
being over here since the FDA, the cold conversation had shifted, so,
you know, a couple of years ago we got quite
a prickly reception, but this time it's really been around
you know, what are those shared challenges and opportunities and
(01:24):
how can we collaborate on things like defending the role
of animal proteins and a healthy diet, getting a bit
of a global narrative on the warming impacts of me
saying so it's been a really positive trip.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Am I right in saying on your farm in Canterbury there,
mid Canterbury, that you're a sheep, beef dairy and deer farmer.
Have you got a finger in all those pies?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We do, although our deer numbers have dropped pretty dramatically
in the last few years, so we're almost out of deer.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well you're not alone there. In the past ten years,
the dear numbers in this country have dropped by a quarter.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They absolutely have, and I think the sheet numbers are
almost the same and it's probably some similar reasons for that.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
You think it'll be last man standing, last man, woman,
person non binary. I don't know. I'm afraid of offending
people these days, Kate, is that the last person standing
will make a fortune farming sheep.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Look, I would like to think that some of the
policy settings that we've seen come and will start to
have an impact. But you know, an absolutely knowledge a
forestation is a major driver of that, and the government
made some moves last year put some restrictions on the
whole farm sales being converted into forestry. But you know,
as we both know, there's some loopholes that are being
(02:41):
exploited still and there's been some really significant farm sales
and particularly the Hawks day in Southland, which is really concerning.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah, where you can drive a truck and trailer unit
through some of those loopholes. You're urging the government to
close them before more damage is done. And part of
the issue is some of the key flows if you
want in guidance that relate to accepting receipts for ordering seedling.
So if you've can claim you've got a receipt before
(03:09):
December the fourth of last year, you're allowed to go
ahead and plant a whole lot of pine trees, perhaps
on good pastoral or even worse arable country. From this
announcement in December last year, we've seen nothing in terms
of action.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, look absolutely, and the intental I think the intent
of it was actually fair enough. I mean, if someone
had purchased the farm with the genuine intent to plant
it at the date the announcement happened, you know, we
understand that. But we do know sort of addedisally that
that farm sales are continuing on the basis of some
pretty questionable evidence, so that that's the loophole. I guess
(03:48):
we really need to see the government closed out.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Will this all sort itself out once the legislation has passed.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We're still really concerned. We know that the government's modeling
is still suggesting some really significant plantings going through to
twenty fifty, so you know, we question whether it will
be enough. In the year of twenty twenty three year,
which is the latest one I've got figures for, there
was sixty nine thousand hectares of new aphorestation, which was
(04:16):
up eight percent on the year before. That's half a
million's documents. You know, these limits are a good start
but I'm concerned that with our the allowance of one
hundred percent offsetting, and I suppose the artificial market that
the carbon market is driving for land, we're going to
continue to see some of this.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Isn't there enough riggle room in there for people who
want to grow forestry or even be carbon farmers, because
I know some of them have no intention there you go.
That's my opinion, not yours, of ever harvesting them. So
you're allowed to plant what up under these new regulations
up to twenty five percent of land class classes one
to six on your own farm, So there's your personal
(04:58):
property rights. That would be a good mix. I know
you've got plenty of forestry on your farm.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh look absolutely, And to be very clear, our concern
is that whole farm's going into trees. Absolutely support the
integration of trees within farms, you know, mosaic landscapes. It's
got to be the way of our farm and future,
I think. But this concern that we have is about
whole farms. And I know this song in your area, Jamie,
that has been brought in blanket planted into trees.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yep, previously arable land. It's criminal anyhow, Kate Eckland. It's
late in the evening Brussels time. Thanks for some of
your time, safe travels home.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Thanks Tommy, nice to speak
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