August 6, 2024 • 8 mins
The PM ponders the importance of agriculture to the economy, paralysing power prices, taming Winston, the Nats' annual conference and Sir John Key's role, crippling national debt and Kamala's pick for VP.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the Country, the PM kicks off the show
Good GDT Auction this morning, Prime Minister, I don't need
to remind you that agriculture is this nation savior.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
You couldn't say, and it'd be good to be with you,
but no, you're dead right. I mean, agriculture got us
through the GFC, it got us through the COVID crisis,
and of course there's nothing more important than agriculture to
our future. So you know, it's good, it's encouraging to
see see the price go up. But the key thing
is that we've got to keep working on inflation to
get interest rates down. You know, we've got, as I
keep saying to you, you know, we've got to get
(00:33):
government's been the under control, which we've been doing. If
we did do that job right, we start to pull
down domestic inflation. It's down to three point three percent now,
off a high of seven point three. Once we get
it to three and under it, and then that puts
real pressure on downward rates for interest rates, which we
would expect to happen quickly, and that gets economy growing,
enables people to invest in that obviously enables people to
hire people, and therefore unemployment comes down as well. So
(00:55):
we're working our way through those five component parts and trust.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
But yeah, we'll hang on. Let me throw it, let
me throw Prime Minister, sorry to interrupt, Let me throw
another component at you. Power prices. Inflation aren't isn't going
to come down quickly if power prices are going to
increase by six hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, we've had real challenges with energy at the energy
sector this winter period. To give us peak time, Basically,
what's happening here is the previous government's decision to ban
oil and gas exploration had quite a chilling effect on
the energy sector. So actually has been very hard to
restore confidence in the sector, and part of that has
been reversing the oil and gas ban, and the other
(01:31):
part is canceling the government's like Gonflo project because essentially
the energy sector wasn't investing with those two pieces sitting
out there. So there is not really enough gas supply
to meet the demand, which is what we've been talking
about this week, and that means that some businesses are
going to have to reduce production to match that supply.
That's pretty deeply, deeply concerning, in a real mess. What
(01:52):
we've been doing is officials at NBA renewing the ord
of Government contract, which is important because that gets us
gas for places like schools and hospitals. Simeon Browns leading network,
and a couple of months ago we put together a
Guess Security Response Group which has made up for all
the gas card producers and uses in New Zealand, including
the government, to just to focus on matching supply and
(02:12):
demand through this short term period and then we've got
to make sure that we've got a long term gas
supply available. But you know, this is the consequence of
you know, going out with the bumper sticker of let's
let's bean oil and gas. Anyone who's exploring for oil
and gas then stops because what's the point. And the
second thing is, you know, we're there in a place
and we need gas for you know, for a couple
(02:33):
of decades as we make the transition to renewables. But
you know, when there's not enough water in the lakes,
when there's not enough sun and there's not enough wind,
you're going to need gas for some period of time.
And it's not as bad as goal. And if you
don't get the gas sorted out, you end up importing
huge amounts of Indonesian coal, which just makes no sense.
So this is the consequence of bad decision. We're trying
to clean it up, trying to match supply and demand
(02:55):
on the short term, but obviously we've got to get
a long term supply.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Are we en danger of becoming a Banana Republic? Shine
Joan said in parliament, Well, I think yesterday that our
energy costs last week were the highest in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, I think I read utimaly that we're extremely high
last week. Now, obviously we're in the text of winter.
It's a peak period of time for energy use across
the country. It's always challenging at this time of the year.
But he's right, and it has happened because there's been
a supply problem in gas because of the decisions of
the previous government. Now we own it, we've got to
fix it. We're going to do some short term band
(03:28):
aiding as we get through this season, and then we've
rarely got to get a long term supply in place.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Quickly, talking about New Zealand, first, is Winston proving much
less of a handful than David Seymour because everyone said
when you formed your government, you know Luxeon and Seymour
are good mates. Winston will cause all the problems. You've
tamed the old master. You've got him as Foreign Affairs.
He's out of the country half the time it Seymour
is kicking up and fighting with big jas of brown.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Look, I enjoy a weekend with both of them. Are
different personalities, but where I think formed of very united
front and we have some good, robust conversations as we
should around policy and all that good stuff, which is great.
But actually no, it's work, the coalitions working well, and
I'm really, really I enjoy working with both of them.
Winsin's doing an exceptionally good job for us since nationally,
(04:15):
I mean, he has done an exceptionally good job of
just lifting intensity and the urgency of our relationships overseas.
That's important to your listeners because that's actually how we
open up new trade opportunities for agriculture. And he's out
there in the world with Todd McLay, with Judith Collins.
And then David's doing great job sort of making sure
he gets focused on regulation and so and you know,
making sure we get rid of the red tape so
(04:36):
which we need to do. So now I enjoy working
with both of them.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Hey, at the National Party annual conference, it was all
about the numbers, balancing the books one and obviously teaching
the kids to add, subtract, multiply and divide. That's fine.
Former leader John Key seems to be playing a larger
part than National Party proceedings. I know you and him
are good mates. I think woke d Simon Wilson in
(04:59):
The Herald described John Key as a cross between the
saint and the mascot. It wasn't bad from Simon.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh that'll feed his ego terribly, But no, we are
good friends. And no, he just gave along to conference
as often form the leaders have done and will continue
to do and here and as you are good friends,
and so we just work on stage at conference and
talked a little bit about what's the light being prom
minister and they sort of things to the people that
were there at the conference. But man, we had a
(05:28):
great conference. And I've got to tell you, the National
parties in great heart if you think about where we
were three or four years ago and where we sit
today and just the energy that we've got and the
new people joining and just enthusiasm is great. So no,
we had a Great Conference.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well the National Party, and your words might be in
great heart. The economy isn't. We've got a huge debt
hanging over our heads. We're paying something like eight billion
dollars a year on interest. We've got that unemployment number
coming out today, it'll be up. We're not quite sure
what it is at the time we record this, but look,
getting back to surplus, getting the books back in order
(06:03):
is going to take a hell of a long time.
You might be voted out before it happens.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, we've got to do everything we can. I mean,
we've got to basically, you know, people on farm have
actually tightened their belts and adjust their spending and get
their budgets and order. Households across New Zealand have been
doing that. So the businesses across the z eland have
been doing that over the last two to three years
and government hasn't. And government now is doing that, and
it's important. I mean, because government spending went up eighty
(06:29):
four percent, there were sixteen thousand more bureaucrats public servants
hired here in Wellington, and yet outcomes got worse. So
you know, we've got a lot of work to do
to make sure that government spending is under control. You
would have seen just in the first six seven months
we took twenty one billion dollars of savings out. That
enables us to do a number of different things. But
that's just taking reprioritizing and getting the spending right. So
(06:53):
we've got to get the spending under control, which is
what Nikola Willis and I are working hard at. If
we do that, if a said, inflation comes down, in
trust rates come down, economy grows and people in unemployment
comes down. But you know, the sad thing is in
the legacy of the last government. I think that hasn't
been talked about enough is and it's quite tragic. We've
got to fix it now, but we had. They came
to power with five billion dollars worth of debt and
(07:14):
we're on track for over one hundred billion dollars worth
of debt. The interest bill on that, you know this
year I think is about nine billion actually and rising
to eleven and you know that is just massive. That's
nine billion dollars worth of hospitals, roads, schools you don't
get to build. And you know, you don't mind borrowing
money if you're going to do productive things with it.
That's going to unlock and drive economic growth. But when
(07:36):
we've spent all that money and got nothing to show
for it in terms of better roads, better hospitals, better schools,
that's utterly unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
This is off the script. But I know you're a
bit of a tragic Prime minister. When it comes to
American politics. What do you make of Kamala's VP nomination.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It's quite a sensible guy. I mean, he's an interesting guy,
has been a school teacher, football coach. He was a
very congressman, actually running in a more Republican kind of area.
But he was a Democrat, quite sensible, sort of moderate,
sort of chap Midwest, which is sort of what they
call Midwest nice, so you know, you can talk quite
plainly and quite straight up and direct, and he was.
(08:14):
Then he's been a successful governor. I think he's on
a second term in Minnesota. So no, I mean, he
looks like a very competent higher in that regard. But again,
I will work with whoever they who are the American
people vote. I'm completely I'm interested in American politics as
in terms of the complexity of how it works and
(08:34):
in the breadth of the system and how deep and
big the system is, but ultimately for me, I can
work with anyone and I'll do the same.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And there are pictures of him out there with a
gun hunting yea, yep, that's the way American politics works.
Christopher Luxan, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Thank yeah, I see you, Jamie
Wednesdays on the Country, the PM kicks off the show
Good GDT Auction this morning, Prime Minister, I don't need
to remind you that agriculture is this nation savior.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
You couldn't say, and it'd be good to be with you,
but no, you're dead right. I mean, agriculture got us
through the GFC, it got us through the COVID crisis,
and of course there's nothing more important than agriculture to
our future. So you know, it's good, it's encouraging to
see see the price go up. But the key thing
is that we've got to keep working on inflation to
get interest rates down. You know, we've got, as I
keep saying to you, you know, we've got to get
(00:33):
government's been the under control, which we've been doing. If
we did do that job right, we start to pull
down domestic inflation. It's down to three point three percent now,
off a high of seven point three. Once we get
it to three and under it, and then that puts
real pressure on downward rates for interest rates, which we
would expect to happen quickly, and that gets economy growing,
enables people to invest in that obviously enables people to
hire people, and therefore unemployment comes down as well. So
(00:55):
we're working our way through those five component parts and trust.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
But yeah, we'll hang on. Let me throw it, let
me throw Prime Minister, sorry to interrupt, Let me throw
another component at you. Power prices. Inflation aren't isn't going
to come down quickly if power prices are going to
increase by six hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, we've had real challenges with energy at the energy
sector this winter period. To give us peak time, Basically,
what's happening here is the previous government's decision to ban
oil and gas exploration had quite a chilling effect on
the energy sector. So actually has been very hard to
restore confidence in the sector, and part of that has
been reversing the oil and gas ban, and the other
(01:31):
part is canceling the government's like Gonflo project because essentially
the energy sector wasn't investing with those two pieces sitting
out there. So there is not really enough gas supply
to meet the demand, which is what we've been talking
about this week, and that means that some businesses are
going to have to reduce production to match that supply.
That's pretty deeply, deeply concerning, in a real mess. What
(01:52):
we've been doing is officials at NBA renewing the ord
of Government contract, which is important because that gets us
gas for places like schools and hospitals. Simeon Browns leading network,
and a couple of months ago we put together a
Guess Security Response Group which has made up for all
the gas card producers and uses in New Zealand, including
the government, to just to focus on matching supply and
(02:12):
demand through this short term period and then we've got
to make sure that we've got a long term gas
supply available. But you know, this is the consequence of
you know, going out with the bumper sticker of let's
let's bean oil and gas. Anyone who's exploring for oil
and gas then stops because what's the point. And the
second thing is, you know, we're there in a place
and we need gas for you know, for a couple
(02:33):
of decades as we make the transition to renewables. But
you know, when there's not enough water in the lakes,
when there's not enough sun and there's not enough wind,
you're going to need gas for some period of time.
And it's not as bad as goal. And if you
don't get the gas sorted out, you end up importing
huge amounts of Indonesian coal, which just makes no sense.
So this is the consequence of bad decision. We're trying
to clean it up, trying to match supply and demand
(02:55):
on the short term, but obviously we've got to get
a long term supply.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Are we en danger of becoming a Banana Republic? Shine
Joan said in parliament, Well, I think yesterday that our
energy costs last week were the highest in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, I think I read utimaly that we're extremely high
last week. Now, obviously we're in the text of winter.
It's a peak period of time for energy use across
the country. It's always challenging at this time of the year.
But he's right, and it has happened because there's been
a supply problem in gas because of the decisions of
the previous government. Now we own it, we've got to
fix it. We're going to do some short term band
(03:28):
aiding as we get through this season, and then we've
rarely got to get a long term supply in place.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Quickly, talking about New Zealand, first, is Winston proving much
less of a handful than David Seymour because everyone said
when you formed your government, you know Luxeon and Seymour
are good mates. Winston will cause all the problems. You've
tamed the old master. You've got him as Foreign Affairs.
He's out of the country half the time it Seymour
is kicking up and fighting with big jas of brown.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Look, I enjoy a weekend with both of them. Are
different personalities, but where I think formed of very united
front and we have some good, robust conversations as we
should around policy and all that good stuff, which is great.
But actually no, it's work, the coalitions working well, and
I'm really, really I enjoy working with both of them.
Winsin's doing an exceptionally good job for us since nationally,
(04:15):
I mean, he has done an exceptionally good job of
just lifting intensity and the urgency of our relationships overseas.
That's important to your listeners because that's actually how we
open up new trade opportunities for agriculture. And he's out
there in the world with Todd McLay, with Judith Collins.
And then David's doing great job sort of making sure
he gets focused on regulation and so and you know,
making sure we get rid of the red tape so
(04:36):
which we need to do. So now I enjoy working
with both of them.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Hey, at the National Party annual conference, it was all
about the numbers, balancing the books one and obviously teaching
the kids to add, subtract, multiply and divide. That's fine.
Former leader John Key seems to be playing a larger
part than National Party proceedings. I know you and him
are good mates. I think woke d Simon Wilson in
(04:59):
The Herald described John Key as a cross between the
saint and the mascot. It wasn't bad from Simon.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Oh that'll feed his ego terribly, But no, we are
good friends. And no, he just gave along to conference
as often form the leaders have done and will continue
to do and here and as you are good friends,
and so we just work on stage at conference and
talked a little bit about what's the light being prom
minister and they sort of things to the people that
were there at the conference. But man, we had a
(05:28):
great conference. And I've got to tell you, the National
parties in great heart if you think about where we
were three or four years ago and where we sit
today and just the energy that we've got and the
new people joining and just enthusiasm is great. So no,
we had a Great Conference.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well the National Party, and your words might be in
great heart. The economy isn't. We've got a huge debt
hanging over our heads. We're paying something like eight billion
dollars a year on interest. We've got that unemployment number
coming out today, it'll be up. We're not quite sure
what it is at the time we record this, but look,
getting back to surplus, getting the books back in order
(06:03):
is going to take a hell of a long time.
You might be voted out before it happens.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, we've got to do everything we can. I mean,
we've got to basically, you know, people on farm have
actually tightened their belts and adjust their spending and get
their budgets and order. Households across New Zealand have been
doing that. So the businesses across the z eland have
been doing that over the last two to three years
and government hasn't. And government now is doing that, and
it's important. I mean, because government spending went up eighty
(06:29):
four percent, there were sixteen thousand more bureaucrats public servants
hired here in Wellington, and yet outcomes got worse. So
you know, we've got a lot of work to do
to make sure that government spending is under control. You
would have seen just in the first six seven months
we took twenty one billion dollars of savings out. That
enables us to do a number of different things. But
that's just taking reprioritizing and getting the spending right. So
(06:53):
we've got to get the spending under control, which is
what Nikola Willis and I are working hard at. If
we do that, if a said, inflation comes down, in
trust rates come down, economy grows and people in unemployment
comes down. But you know, the sad thing is in
the legacy of the last government. I think that hasn't
been talked about enough is and it's quite tragic. We've
got to fix it now, but we had. They came
to power with five billion dollars worth of debt and
(07:14):
we're on track for over one hundred billion dollars worth
of debt. The interest bill on that, you know this
year I think is about nine billion actually and rising
to eleven and you know that is just massive. That's
nine billion dollars worth of hospitals, roads, schools you don't
get to build. And you know, you don't mind borrowing
money if you're going to do productive things with it.
That's going to unlock and drive economic growth. But when
(07:36):
we've spent all that money and got nothing to show
for it in terms of better roads, better hospitals, better schools,
that's utterly unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
This is off the script. But I know you're a
bit of a tragic Prime minister. When it comes to
American politics. What do you make of Kamala's VP nomination.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
It's quite a sensible guy. I mean, he's an interesting guy,
has been a school teacher, football coach. He was a
very congressman, actually running in a more Republican kind of area.
But he was a Democrat, quite sensible, sort of moderate,
sort of chap Midwest, which is sort of what they
call Midwest nice, so you know, you can talk quite
plainly and quite straight up and direct, and he was.
(08:14):
Then he's been a successful governor. I think he's on
a second term in Minnesota. So no, I mean, he
looks like a very competent higher in that regard. But again,
I will work with whoever they who are the American
people vote. I'm completely I'm interested in American politics as
in terms of the complexity of how it works and
(08:34):
in the breadth of the system and how deep and
big the system is, but ultimately for me, I can
work with anyone and I'll do the same.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And there are pictures of him out there with a
gun hunting yea, yep, that's the way American politics works.
Christopher Luxan, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Thank yeah, I see you, Jamie
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