October 7, 2025 • 9 mins
In today’s Mental Health Awareness Week interview, we talk about grief with a farmer, who is also a mother, who has been through great loss.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Looking out for our farmers on the country with Federated
Farmers proud supporters of Mental Health Awareness Week.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You're listening to the country harmers. Mackay in for Jamie McKay.
Our focus this week, as so much has been and
rightly so on Mental Health Awareness Week. Our topic today
is a grief and those suffering grief and how do
we approach them and what do we say because that's
sometimes the biggest challenge of all. Ali Ludeman joins us
(00:31):
now and to discuss this. Ali, thank you so much
for joining us. Look, your story, let's cut to the chase. Well,
it's an incredibly tough story. Just take us through that
so we can sort of set the scene for our
conversation around grief.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, Well, our sons Tom and Dan head to genos
of fraying disorder. Tom was born in nineteen eighty seven.
We were right in the middle of the eggsag and
like a lot of people, we were technically bankrupt. If
the banks had decided to push us over, the value
of what we owned would have been less than what
we owed. And then we had this baby who had
(01:12):
this brain disorder. It took a while to diagnose it
he was born in April, and in response to the
egg sag, we were supplying old use with wind kill,
which meant sharing every fortnight. And that winter I looked back,
I was either in hospital with Tom or at home
(01:33):
feeding sharers or getting food ready for someone else to
feed them when we were in hospital, And in August
we got a diagnosis that was some sort of degenerative
brain condition and he would die soon or be profoundly disabled,
and I meant, I didn't know which what was worse.
I mean, obviously I didn't want my baby to die,
(01:53):
but the thought of a child with a profoundly disabled
was no better course. We don't have choice over matters
like this. And a month later he died, and at
first there was some relief, and anybody who has had
a death when there's you know, the life isn't ideal,
knows that relief is a normal reaction. But of course
(02:15):
there was grief as well, because this was a baby
we'd loved and wanted and he wasn't going to be
part of our family. And there lots of tests during
his life, and a post mortem ruled out all the
non genetic conditions, and we saw a genetic specialist who said,
you know, barring one on a million chance it's something
(02:37):
medical science hasn't caught up with, it'll be quite safe
to have another. So two years later Dan was born
and he had the same condition and he lived till
he was five, and he could do no more the
day he died than he had been able to the
day he lived in the pass the developmental milestones. So
(02:57):
again when he died there was an element of room,
but of course there was sadness and physical symptoms. And
in the end I went to my GP with this
list of symptoms and he examined me from head to
toe and sat me down and he said, well, the
only thing I can rule out one hundred percent is
prostate cancer. But he said, you know, I think you've
(03:22):
got grief. And he said, you know, did you feel
this way after Tom died? And I said no, But
on the way home I thought, actually I did have
physical symptoms as well, and I started crying, and I
cried for Parana. And I guess the lives in there
as you do have to grieve, and you know, when
the hopes and dreams you have for a life, and
it doesn't really matter what age they are but you know, children,
(03:44):
it's worse because there's you know, when you're pregnant, you
may not even be aware of what your hopes and
dreams are for a child, but when they're gone, you
sort of thought, well, you know, it's there. Our daughter,
Jane was two years older than Tom. You know, none
of that sort of sibling fun. And also they're not
(04:04):
so good things that siblings do to each other. But
rather than generally if you're lucky, our clothes and just
you know, we've got a farm, and of course we
could have had any number of daughters who wanted to
be farmers and any number of sons who didn't. But
there was that element as well, and just the awfulness
of it's against the natural order of things to lose
(04:27):
the child.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
To lose two children, that's just like I can't even
get my head around. I'll have to think about this
over the longer term. But grief, So, how were people
How did people approach you or did they approach you,
or how were those who had the magic words or
were those who just you know, maybe shut off. Because
(04:49):
it's a hell of a hard thing to front up
to somebody who's lost children's loved ones, like you say yeah,
And we.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Were really blessed with our family and friends, had absolutely
wonder for support from them, and most were really pretty good.
And I think one of the things is you don't
know what to say. Just say I don't know what
to say, and this is awful, and it is. And
I guess the thing about grief is, you know, if
I had a broken leg, you'd see the plast you
(05:17):
wouldn't expect me to be swinging from the chandeliers, But
you don't see the grief scars. And you know that's
harder because people talk about getting over grief as if
it's an illness, but it's not. It's a process you
go through and something you carry, and sometimes it's heavier
and sometimes it's lighter. And one of the metaphors I
(05:39):
use is like a wound and you know at first
it's bleeding profusely, the pains intense, it's all you can
think of, and then gradually the bleeding will stop, but
it's slight knock and it will start again, and then
you know, as time goes on, you know, you get
a scab and a scar, and the scar will all
(06:00):
always be there, and sometimes you're not aware of it.
And then at other times it's incredibly painful. And then
and grief builds on grief too, because just to complicate matters,
eight years ago, our daughter was diagnosed with a rare
form of overing cancer. And you know, this was it
(06:20):
seems ridiculous, but I always felt that somehow Tom and
Dan would protect her from anything awful. But of course
life doesn't work like that, and you know, that's a
different type of grief.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And and.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know as an adult that handling that is different
from what you know how we handled the boys because
they were because their brains weren't working properly, they didn't
know what was going on. But of course you know,
we're were faced with what Jane was feeling as well
as what we were feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You must have some incredible strategies then around grief, given
what you've been through earlier, that would be so valuable.
I guess too many.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well, if you need help, ask for it. And we
went to a counselor after Jane was diagnosed, and when
he heard our story, said the wonder you're still married?
And I said, well, I knew Grant would never leave
the farm, so if I stayed on the farm, he'd
stay with me, and he knew I wouldn't go quietly
or cheap piece, so really it was left bother to
(07:22):
keep me.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I love the way that you've got a sense of
humor given your life, you know, like that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, well that's important. One of my on the noticeboard
in my office, I've got the Storyteller's Creed by Robert Forlgham,
and the last two lines are the only self for
grief is laughter and love is stronger than death. And
you know, there's been among the sadness, there's been a
lot of laughter, and there's also been a lot of love,
a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Strong I'm writing that down now. Love is stronger than God.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
That's been Yeah, yeah, because because the thing is, you
know why you don't get over grief is because you
don't get over love. If you love someone, you love
them forever, and so yeah, it doesn't die. But as
people are wondering what to do, be guided by the person.
And one of the things if you're thinking of starting
(08:12):
a sentence with at least stop because children, you know
a place and a dinner, set your break one you
can buy another. And it doesn't matter how many good
things are going on in your life. If you're grieving
because of a loss, then you're grieving. And yeah, you
(08:34):
can be grateful for the good things and the wonderful
people around you and all sorts of other things, but
it doesn't stop the pain of the of the grief.
And practical things. There's a book called There is No
Good Card for This and in it they say, you know,
do the practical things. Another thing to avoid is if
there's anything I can do instead of that? You know,
(08:56):
can I mow your lawns? Can I bring you a
meal or better stick, just bring the nail?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Can I look after the other children? If there are
other children? You know, do you need to be taken somewhere?
All those sort of practical things, because you know, if
I say to you there's anything I can do, you
don't know what I'm able and willing to do. But
if I say to you, can I cop your meal
to whatever? You know, that's something that I'm willing and
(09:26):
able to do and can do it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Marvelous chat all day about this, Ali, But there's some
wonderful stuff and what you've just said there, and you know,
if you don't know what to say, just say I
don't know what to say, and I love that if
you need help, just ask for it. Allie Ludeman, thank
you so much for joining us and discussing the topic
of grief. Much appreciated here on the Country
Looking out for our farmers on the country with Federated
Farmers proud supporters of Mental Health Awareness Week.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You're listening to the country harmers. Mackay in for Jamie McKay.
Our focus this week, as so much has been and
rightly so on Mental Health Awareness Week. Our topic today
is a grief and those suffering grief and how do
we approach them and what do we say because that's
sometimes the biggest challenge of all. Ali Ludeman joins us
(00:31):
now and to discuss this. Ali, thank you so much
for joining us. Look, your story, let's cut to the chase. Well,
it's an incredibly tough story. Just take us through that
so we can sort of set the scene for our
conversation around grief.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, Well, our sons Tom and Dan head to genos
of fraying disorder. Tom was born in nineteen eighty seven.
We were right in the middle of the eggsag and
like a lot of people, we were technically bankrupt. If
the banks had decided to push us over, the value
of what we owned would have been less than what
we owed. And then we had this baby who had
(01:12):
this brain disorder. It took a while to diagnose it
he was born in April, and in response to the
egg sag, we were supplying old use with wind kill,
which meant sharing every fortnight. And that winter I looked back,
I was either in hospital with Tom or at home
(01:33):
feeding sharers or getting food ready for someone else to
feed them when we were in hospital, And in August
we got a diagnosis that was some sort of degenerative
brain condition and he would die soon or be profoundly disabled,
and I meant, I didn't know which what was worse.
I mean, obviously I didn't want my baby to die,
(01:53):
but the thought of a child with a profoundly disabled
was no better course. We don't have choice over matters
like this. And a month later he died, and at
first there was some relief, and anybody who has had
a death when there's you know, the life isn't ideal,
knows that relief is a normal reaction. But of course
(02:15):
there was grief as well, because this was a baby
we'd loved and wanted and he wasn't going to be
part of our family. And there lots of tests during
his life, and a post mortem ruled out all the
non genetic conditions, and we saw a genetic specialist who said,
you know, barring one on a million chance it's something
(02:37):
medical science hasn't caught up with, it'll be quite safe
to have another. So two years later Dan was born
and he had the same condition and he lived till
he was five, and he could do no more the
day he died than he had been able to the
day he lived in the pass the developmental milestones. So
(02:57):
again when he died there was an element of room,
but of course there was sadness and physical symptoms. And
in the end I went to my GP with this
list of symptoms and he examined me from head to
toe and sat me down and he said, well, the
only thing I can rule out one hundred percent is
prostate cancer. But he said, you know, I think you've
(03:22):
got grief. And he said, you know, did you feel
this way after Tom died? And I said no, But
on the way home I thought, actually I did have
physical symptoms as well, and I started crying, and I
cried for Parana. And I guess the lives in there
as you do have to grieve, and you know, when
the hopes and dreams you have for a life, and
it doesn't really matter what age they are but you know, children,
(03:44):
it's worse because there's you know, when you're pregnant, you
may not even be aware of what your hopes and
dreams are for a child, but when they're gone, you
sort of thought, well, you know, it's there. Our daughter,
Jane was two years older than Tom. You know, none
of that sort of sibling fun. And also they're not
(04:04):
so good things that siblings do to each other. But
rather than generally if you're lucky, our clothes and just
you know, we've got a farm, and of course we
could have had any number of daughters who wanted to
be farmers and any number of sons who didn't. But
there was that element as well, and just the awfulness
of it's against the natural order of things to lose
(04:27):
the child.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
To lose two children, that's just like I can't even
get my head around. I'll have to think about this
over the longer term. But grief, So, how were people
How did people approach you or did they approach you,
or how were those who had the magic words or
were those who just you know, maybe shut off. Because
(04:49):
it's a hell of a hard thing to front up
to somebody who's lost children's loved ones, like you say yeah,
And we.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Were really blessed with our family and friends, had absolutely
wonder for support from them, and most were really pretty good.
And I think one of the things is you don't
know what to say. Just say I don't know what
to say, and this is awful, and it is. And
I guess the thing about grief is, you know, if
I had a broken leg, you'd see the plast you
(05:17):
wouldn't expect me to be swinging from the chandeliers, But
you don't see the grief scars. And you know that's
harder because people talk about getting over grief as if
it's an illness, but it's not. It's a process you
go through and something you carry, and sometimes it's heavier
and sometimes it's lighter. And one of the metaphors I
(05:39):
use is like a wound and you know at first
it's bleeding profusely, the pains intense, it's all you can
think of, and then gradually the bleeding will stop, but
it's slight knock and it will start again, and then
you know, as time goes on, you know, you get
a scab and a scar, and the scar will all
(06:00):
always be there, and sometimes you're not aware of it.
And then at other times it's incredibly painful. And then
and grief builds on grief too, because just to complicate matters,
eight years ago, our daughter was diagnosed with a rare
form of overing cancer. And you know, this was it
(06:20):
seems ridiculous, but I always felt that somehow Tom and
Dan would protect her from anything awful. But of course
life doesn't work like that, and you know, that's a
different type of grief.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And and.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know as an adult that handling that is different
from what you know how we handled the boys because
they were because their brains weren't working properly, they didn't
know what was going on. But of course you know,
we're were faced with what Jane was feeling as well
as what we were feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You must have some incredible strategies then around grief, given
what you've been through earlier, that would be so valuable.
I guess too many.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Well, if you need help, ask for it. And we
went to a counselor after Jane was diagnosed, and when
he heard our story, said the wonder you're still married?
And I said, well, I knew Grant would never leave
the farm, so if I stayed on the farm, he'd
stay with me, and he knew I wouldn't go quietly
or cheap piece, so really it was left bother to
(07:22):
keep me.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I love the way that you've got a sense of
humor given your life, you know, like that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, well that's important. One of my on the noticeboard
in my office, I've got the Storyteller's Creed by Robert Forlgham,
and the last two lines are the only self for
grief is laughter and love is stronger than death. And
you know, there's been among the sadness, there's been a
lot of laughter, and there's also been a lot of love,
a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Strong I'm writing that down now. Love is stronger than God.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
That's been Yeah, yeah, because because the thing is, you
know why you don't get over grief is because you
don't get over love. If you love someone, you love
them forever, and so yeah, it doesn't die. But as
people are wondering what to do, be guided by the person.
And one of the things if you're thinking of starting
(08:12):
a sentence with at least stop because children, you know
a place and a dinner, set your break one you
can buy another. And it doesn't matter how many good
things are going on in your life. If you're grieving
because of a loss, then you're grieving. And yeah, you
(08:34):
can be grateful for the good things and the wonderful
people around you and all sorts of other things, but
it doesn't stop the pain of the of the grief.
And practical things. There's a book called There is No
Good Card for This and in it they say, you know,
do the practical things. Another thing to avoid is if
there's anything I can do instead of that? You know,
(08:56):
can I mow your lawns? Can I bring you a
meal or better stick, just bring the nail?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Can I look after the other children? If there are
other children? You know, do you need to be taken somewhere?
All those sort of practical things, because you know, if
I say to you there's anything I can do, you
don't know what I'm able and willing to do. But
if I say to you, can I cop your meal
to whatever? You know, that's something that I'm willing and
(09:26):
able to do and can do it.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Marvelous chat all day about this, Ali, But there's some
wonderful stuff and what you've just said there, and you know,
if you don't know what to say, just say I
don't know what to say, and I love that if
you need help, just ask for it. Allie Ludeman, thank
you so much for joining us and discussing the topic
of grief. Much appreciated here on the Country
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