November 7, 2024 • 7 mins
Sainsbury’s Director of Agriculture, Aquaculture, and Horticulture has over 20 years experience in the Agriculture industry, which includes almost 15 years in farming and eight years in processing and retail. Since joining Sainsbury’s in 2014 he has occupied the roles of Pork Agriculture Manager, Head of Livestock, Buying Manager in Meat, Fish & Poultry, and now oversees a team of 17 to deliver Sainsbury’s agriculture strategy, focussing on supply chain resilience and sustainability, security of supply, and innovation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Devin Hodgson is Sainsbury's Director of Agriculture, Aquaculture and Horticulture.
He's got over twenty years experience in the agricultural industry
with Sainsbury's were including his time with Sainsbury's. Now Sainsbury's
is one of the UK's largest supermarket chains six hundred supermarkets,
(00:21):
eight hundred convenience stores. They want to become a net
zero business by twenty thirty five. How is that going
to happen? How is that going to affect us here
in New Zealand Supplying the likes of Sainsbury's Devin Hodgson,
the floor is yours. How's this going to work?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
That's a great question. I think the honest answer to
that is, either the minute we do now, we've obviously
sacked our stretching targets, like a large number of other
businesses of stretching targets, and let's say here today we
don't have line of status to exactly how we're going
to meet those targets. And whilst that's quite uncomfortable for
(01:05):
quite a lot of people in our business and outside
of our business, the bit that we can sort of
work on today is where we are and then start
to build up where we think we can get to
and then what choices we need to make between between
now and then. But do we have line of sight
of exactly how we're going to get there? No, we don't,
(01:27):
and that is because we don't have control of visibility
of a large proportion of our cabin footprint.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Is twenty thirty five a realistic goal? Or is that
about pie in the sky? It's only eleven years away?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Agaven it is? I mean, I think he's well, I
would probably say it is highly stretching. I think everything
that is a conversation in this space is really really stretching.
But I sort of come back to the point that
just getting a visibility to where we actually are today,
(02:05):
and obviously when I say we, you know I'm talking
on behalf of every single supplier, processor and packer that
would supply Sainsbury's for the thousands of products. Is that
the reality is is that nobody actually knows where they
are today? Are not not enough people know where they
are today?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Now I can see why Sainsbury a giant. Sainsbury is
a giants organization like that has the power to call
the shots. Okay, that's fine, and we've just had a
guy on from Federated Farmers getting stuck into the banks
about setting climate change targets Gevin, And this is off
the script, but I think it's important in the context
of today's show. Who should see it climate change targets?
(02:42):
Should it be the government? Should it be at processor
level or customer level because the customer is always right,
Or should it be the banks or a bit of each.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So I'm a real fan. I sort of talk about
two things when I talk about change. There's industry driven
chair and there's legislative driven change. I'm a massive fan
of industry driven change rather than legislative driven change. So
I think who should who should be setting the targets?
I think the answer to that question is the person
that's responsible for their element of that impact or the
(03:16):
slides of the pipe. And that's where it's really important
if we're talking about farmers, you know, in particular here,
but it's the same for processes, and it's the same
for same spirit is we we need to understand where
we are, We need to understand where we can get
to and what levers we need to pull together there,
(03:37):
and then we need to then report on our bit
of it arm and unfortunately, what is happening is is
that we're getting a top down approach because in some
organizations and in some sectors, they can't self organize in
order to give the visibility of that.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Times have been tough for consumers right around the world
since the pandemic. Consumers or customers balance prioritizing their budgets
in spending, and it might be wishful spending on nature
positive products because I'm sure everyone would like to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think the
first point to sort of probably making that answer is
to sort of go that there isn't an awful lot
of nature positive products that are out there for customers
to see and buy. So asking somebody to buy into
something that we're not doing a very good job at
selling or offering to a customer makes that really challenging.
(04:36):
So then when you work that back, what needs to
happen in the system to be able to just give
that offer to a customer is one part of the equation.
The other part is then whose responsibility is it to
pay for that offer? And I think that's where you
(04:56):
would get a different response depending on who you ask.
I think I hear quite a lot as I sort
of travel about and have different conversations that one thing
that worries me is that there is a growing sort
of voice towards customers being the ones that have to
pay for everything, whether that be in a welfare space
or a sustainability space. That's not going to happen, and
(05:19):
not do I think that that should happen, But equally
I think the cost should be, as a general statement,
sort of shared shared between everybody. But the first place
we've got to get to is it gets a place
where we can start to offer different products to different
customers so that they have the ability of choice.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So big customers like you want to be knit zero
by twenty thirty five. What impact downstream will that have
for the likes of us, for air sheep and bee
farmers in this country.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I think for a proportion of people it will have
a great opportunity. Do I think it's going to be
brilliant for absolutely everybody? Probably not, But there is definitely
a huge amount of opportunity for people that want to
move into a space of doing things differently, working differently
towards a slightly different objective, and through that inevitably will
(06:15):
be will be future opportunity, whether that be through premium product,
standard products that offers something that they should be offering,
or something else. I think there's a mixture of opportunity
and an equally there's a mixture of probably disappointment for some.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Hey Gavin Hodgson's final shot from me on behalf of
New Zealand sheep and beef farmers, I would say on
their behalf that where the cleanest and greenest and lower
and the lowest emission producers in the world. As it
is at the.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Moment, I would say that whenever I come here I
am I am genuinely really impressed with how this country
and the agricultural sector and everybody within it organizes themselves
to show where they are, show what they're working on,
(07:02):
and show what their priorities are and where they're going
to be in the future. I think you do have
an advantage in the fact that you understand more about
where you are as a country versus some other areas
where we may source product from, and that gives you
a leading edge in the conversation today, and that should
give you a platform for moving forward at a great pace.
(07:22):
And some others all right.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
There, we got Gavin Hodgson out of Signsburys. Thanks for
your time, Gavin, safe travel time, no worries.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Thank you,
Devin Hodgson is Sainsbury's Director of Agriculture, Aquaculture and Horticulture.
He's got over twenty years experience in the agricultural industry
with Sainsbury's were including his time with Sainsbury's. Now Sainsbury's
is one of the UK's largest supermarket chains six hundred supermarkets,
(00:21):
eight hundred convenience stores. They want to become a net
zero business by twenty thirty five. How is that going
to happen? How is that going to affect us here
in New Zealand Supplying the likes of Sainsbury's Devin Hodgson,
the floor is yours. How's this going to work?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
That's a great question. I think the honest answer to
that is, either the minute we do now, we've obviously
sacked our stretching targets, like a large number of other
businesses of stretching targets, and let's say here today we
don't have line of status to exactly how we're going
to meet those targets. And whilst that's quite uncomfortable for
(01:05):
quite a lot of people in our business and outside
of our business, the bit that we can sort of
work on today is where we are and then start
to build up where we think we can get to
and then what choices we need to make between between
now and then. But do we have line of sight
of exactly how we're going to get there? No, we don't,
(01:27):
and that is because we don't have control of visibility
of a large proportion of our cabin footprint.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Is twenty thirty five a realistic goal? Or is that
about pie in the sky? It's only eleven years away?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Agaven it is? I mean, I think he's well, I
would probably say it is highly stretching. I think everything
that is a conversation in this space is really really stretching.
But I sort of come back to the point that
just getting a visibility to where we actually are today,
(02:05):
and obviously when I say we, you know I'm talking
on behalf of every single supplier, processor and packer that
would supply Sainsbury's for the thousands of products. Is that
the reality is is that nobody actually knows where they
are today? Are not not enough people know where they
are today?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Now I can see why Sainsbury a giant. Sainsbury is
a giants organization like that has the power to call
the shots. Okay, that's fine, and we've just had a
guy on from Federated Farmers getting stuck into the banks
about setting climate change targets Gevin, And this is off
the script, but I think it's important in the context
of today's show. Who should see it climate change targets?
(02:42):
Should it be the government? Should it be at processor
level or customer level because the customer is always right,
Or should it be the banks or a bit of each.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So I'm a real fan. I sort of talk about
two things when I talk about change. There's industry driven
chair and there's legislative driven change. I'm a massive fan
of industry driven change rather than legislative driven change. So
I think who should who should be setting the targets?
I think the answer to that question is the person
that's responsible for their element of that impact or the
(03:16):
slides of the pipe. And that's where it's really important
if we're talking about farmers, you know, in particular here,
but it's the same for processes, and it's the same
for same spirit is we we need to understand where
we are, We need to understand where we can get
to and what levers we need to pull together there,
(03:37):
and then we need to then report on our bit
of it arm and unfortunately, what is happening is is
that we're getting a top down approach because in some
organizations and in some sectors, they can't self organize in
order to give the visibility of that.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Times have been tough for consumers right around the world
since the pandemic. Consumers or customers balance prioritizing their budgets
in spending, and it might be wishful spending on nature
positive products because I'm sure everyone would like to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think the
first point to sort of probably making that answer is
to sort of go that there isn't an awful lot
of nature positive products that are out there for customers
to see and buy. So asking somebody to buy into
something that we're not doing a very good job at
selling or offering to a customer makes that really challenging.
(04:36):
So then when you work that back, what needs to
happen in the system to be able to just give
that offer to a customer is one part of the equation.
The other part is then whose responsibility is it to
pay for that offer? And I think that's where you
(04:56):
would get a different response depending on who you ask.
I think I hear quite a lot as I sort
of travel about and have different conversations that one thing
that worries me is that there is a growing sort
of voice towards customers being the ones that have to
pay for everything, whether that be in a welfare space
or a sustainability space. That's not going to happen, and
(05:19):
not do I think that that should happen, But equally
I think the cost should be, as a general statement,
sort of shared shared between everybody. But the first place
we've got to get to is it gets a place
where we can start to offer different products to different
customers so that they have the ability of choice.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So big customers like you want to be knit zero
by twenty thirty five. What impact downstream will that have
for the likes of us, for air sheep and bee
farmers in this country.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I think for a proportion of people it will have
a great opportunity. Do I think it's going to be
brilliant for absolutely everybody? Probably not, But there is definitely
a huge amount of opportunity for people that want to
move into a space of doing things differently, working differently
towards a slightly different objective, and through that inevitably will
(06:15):
be will be future opportunity, whether that be through premium product,
standard products that offers something that they should be offering,
or something else. I think there's a mixture of opportunity
and an equally there's a mixture of probably disappointment for some.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Hey Gavin Hodgson's final shot from me on behalf of
New Zealand sheep and beef farmers, I would say on
their behalf that where the cleanest and greenest and lower
and the lowest emission producers in the world. As it
is at the.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Moment, I would say that whenever I come here I
am I am genuinely really impressed with how this country
and the agricultural sector and everybody within it organizes themselves
to show where they are, show what they're working on,
(07:02):
and show what their priorities are and where they're going
to be in the future. I think you do have
an advantage in the fact that you understand more about
where you are as a country versus some other areas
where we may source product from, and that gives you
a leading edge in the conversation today, and that should
give you a platform for moving forward at a great pace.
(07:22):
And some others all right.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
There, we got Gavin Hodgson out of Signsburys. Thanks for
your time, Gavin, safe travel time, no worries.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Thank you,
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