September 9, 2025 • 7 mins
Filling in for the Prime Minister, we ask the Minister of Finance if that’s a role she wants permanently. We also discuss the “Buttergate” beat-up and whether the noble goal of doubling exports in the next decade is achievable.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kicking off the country today in place of the Prime
Minister Christopher Luckson is Finance Minister Nikola Willis and Nicola,
is this a four runner of things to come or
on a weekly Wednesday basis? Is this part of your
plan to roll luxon?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Absolutely not. And you know that Chris loves his time
on the show with you, Jamie, and we love him
being our prime minister. But if you ever want to
give me a call so I can talk with your listeners,
I would love the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well, let's start with some financial things. Seeing you're the
Minister of Finance. I note that a labor has come out,
Barbara Edmonds, who in my mind is one of the
better labor and peace, and she has come out and said,
maybe we need to adjust that inflation threshold. Instead of
a midpoint for the Reserve Bank of keeping inflation under
control of two percent, we go for two and a half.
(00:49):
What do you say about that, Well.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Higher inflation just means bigger price increases, which equals a
higher cost of loving. But on reflection, maybe she's just
being honest because it is labor's track record deliver a
higher inflation which means a higher cost of living for
Kiwis and a worse economy and maybe she's just fronting
up to reality.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, maybe she's got a point, though the cure was
worse than the disease, because it would be fair to
say the Reserve Bank has completely cocked up the ocr
in recent times, my words, not yours.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, when we talk to Kiwi's they tell us the
thing that is really in their face right now as
price increases, and when you look back over the past
three years, it was when inflation got completely out of control,
remember it was out of control for three years that
went up to more than seven percent, that the economy
really went backwards. And that's when things really get out
of control. And so low stable inflation is something that
(01:45):
needed for a strong economy that National has delivered in
the past, that we're delivering now and we think is
essential for the future.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
The economy is coming right, But are you worried you're
starting to get a bit starting to have sleepless nights
that you're going to not a runway before the election
because Chippy, you realize, is in danger of sleep walking
to victory if you to believe the latest polls. And
some people might not like National New Zealand first and act.
But Heaven help us if Chloe became got your job
(02:14):
Minister of Finance, will be a rush for the airport.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah well, look, of course I wake up every day
thinking about how we can go harder, faster to strengthen
this economy. But I trust New Zealanders. They're pretty smart.
I think as they really appraise their options in the
lead up to next year's election, you're going to understand
that electing Chloe's for brookers finance minister and it's a
party Marti labor arrangement. There's no recipe for a stronger economy,
(02:43):
for better health or education services or a better cost
of living that won't deliver. And look, there are some
good signs, Jamie. We know that around forty percent of
mortgages refix over just the next ten months, and when
they do, they'll be coming down to much lower interest rates,
which means a bit more money and budget bit more
money being spent in local businesses in local communities. We've
(03:03):
seen that retail spending has started to come up in
those confidence levels are starting to recover. Those are all
the things you'd expect to see with inflation under control.
Interstrates coming down, and our export is still doing incredibly
well despite everything. The world is throng of them.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
How realistic is the goal of doubling primary industry exports
in the next decade. It's a lofty goal and a
virtuous one, and we're all behind it. Dairy's going to
have to do quite a bit of heavy lifting, even
though maybe horticulture is one of the vehicles that could
drive this. You've got a background in dairy, although it
went missing when you were on the Buttergate trail. We'll
come back to that one, Nicola, But.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
She never went missing. I didn't Montra love the dairy sector.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Well, you were. You were a bit mean to Miles.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Ah, well, there's a story to tell about that. The
media were mean to Miles. They made an absolute mountain
out of a molehill, and I would never condone the
way they went after him, completely unnecessary. You and I
just had a chat.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
You were doing in the.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Media became obsessed with that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm on, Nicola, you were doing about of show boating.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No looks quite honestly. What happened was I was in
a press conference being asked about the price of groceries
and the like, and they were asking me about what
goes into the price about it, and I said, well,
I'm actually talking with Fonterra soon and that's one of
the things I'll talk to them about. And suddenly that
very fact became a sort of daily barrage of questions
about when's the meeting, what are you going to say,
(04:29):
and all of this sort of thing. And I don't
take responsibility for the media's obsession with something.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Before ol Miles Serrell got marched down to Parliament like
a naughty schoolboy.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well I certainly didn't march him down. We catch up
reasonably regularly, often on the fringes of other things. He
had ours to come and see me at Parliament, and
he's always welcome to come and see me at Parliament.
You know, this is our biggest exporter with a really
significant contribution to the economy and a view of what's
happening globally. So all he was doing was coming to
catch up what's me and you know, the media, we're
(05:02):
just utterly obsessed with it and turned it into that
outrageous thing. And I don't like that that happened to him.
You know, he's my former boss and he really supported
me at Fonterra helped me learn a heck of a
lot developed me. I think he's a good leader, and
you know, I don't think he needed to be.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
But there was wisdom of hindsight, you'd admit, Buttergate was
a beat up.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
If I could go back to that day where I
mentioned that I was meeting with him, I would never
have mentioned that again.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
All right, let's go back to the original question. The
goal of doubling primary industry exports dairy having to do
the heavy lifting, and that's fine and dandy, but is
it environmentally sustainable. I mean, if you asked doctor Mike Joy,
he would say, no, We've already got far too many cows.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, a couple of things. It's not all going to
come from dairy. I remember, around thirty percent of exports
services and while there is an important part of our goods,
so it's not the only part. But the second thing
is the story for dairy I think is one of value.
It's not just about volume. It's about the fact that
we are anything that we're getting increasing prices for our products.
(06:12):
But as our dairy producers continue to provide more sophisticated ingredients,
they're going to get higher prices for those I reckon.
There's also a lot that science is going to do
in this area. You think about how much more productive
the average dairy cow is now compared to even a
decade ago, how much more milk they produce. I think
those advances will continue. We'll see developments in the grass,
(06:35):
We'll see developments in the genes of the animals, in
the way that farmers farm. We've got the best productivity
story ever in New Zealand dairy and I'm very optimistic
that will continue into the future, meaning we'll get even
more value outed dairy in the using here.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
One final question that's not on the script. Schippy couldn't
decide how to define a woman. It would be fair
to say that Stuart Nash had it figured out all
be it and slow the vulgar manner. What do you
make of Stuart's comments, because he's a bit of an
out there character, and what do you make of him
standing for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
First, well, I really didn't like his comments. You know,
how do I explain comments like that to my thirteen
and nine year old daughters? Simply count? So that's all
I'll say on that, And look in terms of New
Zealand says, I don't know that he's actually concerned his candidacy.
Obviously they'll go through this selection process and every party
(07:27):
runs its own process on that, so National will focus
on our candidates. Thanks very much, and I'll just put
to you, in whatever electric you are in the country,
vote for the National MP They're always better.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Ah, you can get that sniff of an election in
the air. Okay. Will I catch Christopher luxenback in this
seat in a week's time or will it be you again?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You'll catch him. He loves talking to you, and I
know that your audience love listening to m Nicola Wallis.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Thanks for filling in today. Thank you
Kicking off the country today in place of the Prime
Minister Christopher Luckson is Finance Minister Nikola Willis and Nicola,
is this a four runner of things to come or
on a weekly Wednesday basis? Is this part of your
plan to roll luxon?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Absolutely not. And you know that Chris loves his time
on the show with you, Jamie, and we love him
being our prime minister. But if you ever want to
give me a call so I can talk with your listeners,
I would love the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well, let's start with some financial things. Seeing you're the
Minister of Finance. I note that a labor has come out,
Barbara Edmonds, who in my mind is one of the
better labor and peace, and she has come out and said,
maybe we need to adjust that inflation threshold. Instead of
a midpoint for the Reserve Bank of keeping inflation under
control of two percent, we go for two and a half.
(00:49):
What do you say about that, Well.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Higher inflation just means bigger price increases, which equals a
higher cost of loving. But on reflection, maybe she's just
being honest because it is labor's track record deliver a
higher inflation which means a higher cost of living for
Kiwis and a worse economy and maybe she's just fronting
up to reality.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, maybe she's got a point, though the cure was
worse than the disease, because it would be fair to
say the Reserve Bank has completely cocked up the ocr
in recent times, my words, not yours.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, when we talk to Kiwi's they tell us the
thing that is really in their face right now as
price increases, and when you look back over the past
three years, it was when inflation got completely out of control,
remember it was out of control for three years that
went up to more than seven percent, that the economy
really went backwards. And that's when things really get out
of control. And so low stable inflation is something that
(01:45):
needed for a strong economy that National has delivered in
the past, that we're delivering now and we think is
essential for the future.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
The economy is coming right, But are you worried you're
starting to get a bit starting to have sleepless nights
that you're going to not a runway before the election
because Chippy, you realize, is in danger of sleep walking
to victory if you to believe the latest polls. And
some people might not like National New Zealand first and act.
But Heaven help us if Chloe became got your job
(02:14):
Minister of Finance, will be a rush for the airport.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah well, look, of course I wake up every day
thinking about how we can go harder, faster to strengthen
this economy. But I trust New Zealanders. They're pretty smart.
I think as they really appraise their options in the
lead up to next year's election, you're going to understand
that electing Chloe's for brookers finance minister and it's a
party Marti labor arrangement. There's no recipe for a stronger economy,
(02:43):
for better health or education services or a better cost
of living that won't deliver. And look, there are some
good signs, Jamie. We know that around forty percent of
mortgages refix over just the next ten months, and when
they do, they'll be coming down to much lower interest rates,
which means a bit more money and budget bit more
money being spent in local businesses in local communities. We've
(03:03):
seen that retail spending has started to come up in
those confidence levels are starting to recover. Those are all
the things you'd expect to see with inflation under control.
Interstrates coming down, and our export is still doing incredibly
well despite everything. The world is throng of them.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
How realistic is the goal of doubling primary industry exports
in the next decade. It's a lofty goal and a
virtuous one, and we're all behind it. Dairy's going to
have to do quite a bit of heavy lifting, even
though maybe horticulture is one of the vehicles that could
drive this. You've got a background in dairy, although it
went missing when you were on the Buttergate trail. We'll
come back to that one, Nicola, But.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
She never went missing. I didn't Montra love the dairy sector.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Well, you were. You were a bit mean to Miles.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Ah, well, there's a story to tell about that. The
media were mean to Miles. They made an absolute mountain
out of a molehill, and I would never condone the
way they went after him, completely unnecessary. You and I
just had a chat.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
You were doing in the.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Media became obsessed with that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm on, Nicola, you were doing about of show boating.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No looks quite honestly. What happened was I was in
a press conference being asked about the price of groceries
and the like, and they were asking me about what
goes into the price about it, and I said, well,
I'm actually talking with Fonterra soon and that's one of
the things I'll talk to them about. And suddenly that
very fact became a sort of daily barrage of questions
about when's the meeting, what are you going to say,
(04:29):
and all of this sort of thing. And I don't
take responsibility for the media's obsession with something.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Before ol Miles Serrell got marched down to Parliament like
a naughty schoolboy.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well I certainly didn't march him down. We catch up
reasonably regularly, often on the fringes of other things. He
had ours to come and see me at Parliament, and
he's always welcome to come and see me at Parliament.
You know, this is our biggest exporter with a really
significant contribution to the economy and a view of what's
happening globally. So all he was doing was coming to
catch up what's me and you know, the media, we're
(05:02):
just utterly obsessed with it and turned it into that
outrageous thing. And I don't like that that happened to him.
You know, he's my former boss and he really supported
me at Fonterra helped me learn a heck of a
lot developed me. I think he's a good leader, and
you know, I don't think he needed to be.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
But there was wisdom of hindsight, you'd admit, Buttergate was
a beat up.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
If I could go back to that day where I
mentioned that I was meeting with him, I would never
have mentioned that again.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
All right, let's go back to the original question. The
goal of doubling primary industry exports dairy having to do
the heavy lifting, and that's fine and dandy, but is
it environmentally sustainable. I mean, if you asked doctor Mike Joy,
he would say, no, We've already got far too many cows.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, a couple of things. It's not all going to
come from dairy. I remember, around thirty percent of exports
services and while there is an important part of our goods,
so it's not the only part. But the second thing
is the story for dairy I think is one of value.
It's not just about volume. It's about the fact that
we are anything that we're getting increasing prices for our products.
(06:12):
But as our dairy producers continue to provide more sophisticated ingredients,
they're going to get higher prices for those I reckon.
There's also a lot that science is going to do
in this area. You think about how much more productive
the average dairy cow is now compared to even a
decade ago, how much more milk they produce. I think
those advances will continue. We'll see developments in the grass,
(06:35):
We'll see developments in the genes of the animals, in
the way that farmers farm. We've got the best productivity
story ever in New Zealand dairy and I'm very optimistic
that will continue into the future, meaning we'll get even
more value outed dairy in the using here.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
One final question that's not on the script. Schippy couldn't
decide how to define a woman. It would be fair
to say that Stuart Nash had it figured out all
be it and slow the vulgar manner. What do you
make of Stuart's comments, because he's a bit of an
out there character, and what do you make of him
standing for New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
First, well, I really didn't like his comments. You know,
how do I explain comments like that to my thirteen
and nine year old daughters? Simply count? So that's all
I'll say on that, And look in terms of New
Zealand says, I don't know that he's actually concerned his candidacy.
Obviously they'll go through this selection process and every party
(07:27):
runs its own process on that, so National will focus
on our candidates. Thanks very much, and I'll just put
to you, in whatever electric you are in the country,
vote for the National MP They're always better.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Ah, you can get that sniff of an election in
the air. Okay. Will I catch Christopher luxenback in this
seat in a week's time or will it be you again?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You'll catch him. He loves talking to you, and I
know that your audience love listening to m Nicola Wallis.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Thanks for filling in today. Thank you
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