December 9, 2025 • 9 mins
Strong attendance at climate change events with world-renowned Princeton physicist Will Happer demonstrates support for a serious conversation about climate change policy. So says Groundswell. But is the good doctor simply a climate change denier?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And next guest on the country is a very interesting character.
He's in the country at the moment on the speaking
tour at the behest I think of Groundswell. His name
is Professor will Happen Now. He is a emeritus physics
professor from Princeton University. And Well, the thing that I
(00:20):
find fascinating about you before we get on to why
you're in New Zealand, is your background. You served under
two presidential administrations, George HW. Bush and then the first
Trump administration. Tell us about your background.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, I'm a physicist and I've spent most of my
life doing physics in one way or another, but parts
of it have been in Washington, DC as a bureaucrat,
you know, doing scientific administration. So during Bush Senior's presidency,
(00:55):
I was Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy,
and so I was responsible for all of the non
weapons basic research there. And under mister Trump, I served
for a year in the National Security Council, working with
John Bolton, and my job there was to help him
(01:17):
on emerging technologies. But I only agreed to go if
they would let me try and get some common sense
into the climate issue. And so I spent a year
trying to get that to happen. And after the deer
was up and nothing happened, I returned to Princeton on
good terms with our friends at the White House.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
But did Trump sack you?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
No, No, certainly not. Yeah, he was a good friend
and very strong supporter his political advisors who urged him
not to touch this climate issue. They thought it would
cost him votes.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Who was the best Republican president out of George Bush
Senior Trump.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, they both had their strengths. You know. George Bush
Senior was much more a traditional Republican, you know, from
a wealthy family and sort of a country club Republican
I guess you would call him. And mister Trump is
certainly not in that mold. He's also I think a
(02:26):
good president. Good presidents, you know, try to change things
and make things better, and Trump is trying to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Now the ground swell PI tells me that you're here
for a serious conversation around climate change policy. And I
know that you're a physics professor, but are you qualified
to speak about climate change? Are you a climate change denier?
Or conversely, does climate change actually exist?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, I guess I deny that there is any climate emergency.
You know, that's certainly an absurd idea if you look
at the facts. As a physicist, you know, I'm probably
most famous for inventing the sodium guide star, which is
(03:18):
used at all astronomical sites on the ground today practically
to improve the scene of stars and galaxies. And that's
why I wasted invited to Washington the first time to
work for mister Bush was because I had solved an
important problem for the star Wars effort under Reagan, so
(03:41):
they knew I knew how to solve technical problems. But
that background on the atmosphere, and that's the key part
of climate. You know, most climate scientists know a lot
less than I do about how the atmosphere works.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Doctor or professor. Will happen with us see on a
speaking tour of New Zealand. Is the planet warming? Surely
you can't deny that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
No, of course, I don't deny that the planet began
to warm around the year eighteen hundred, long before there
was any increase in carbon dioxide. Nobody's quite sure why.
But the previous several centuries was the Little Ice Age,
when the planet was unusually cold. And then you go
(04:24):
back a few additional centuries. You come to the year
of one eleven hundred, when it was much warmer than today,
they were farming the south of Greenland. You can dig
up the old Norse farms today and find that we're
growing barley and other crops that you can't ripen there today.
The climate isn't warm.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
U Methine emissions from ruminants the problem, because that's where
I have a bit of an argument against this, isn't
that part of the carbon cycle.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, methane is absolutely essential to ruminants if they're going
to efficient digest their food. They can't get maximum value
out of the forage that they eat without emitting methane
and carbon dioxide, and methane is indeed a greenhouse gas
(05:15):
like carbon dioxide or water vapor, which is by far
the most important. But the effects of methane are trivially small.
You know, if New Zealand, for example, reduces methane emissions
by fourteen percent, that will come at an enormous cost
to the people of New Zealand, especially the farmers will
(05:38):
pick up the burden, and it will save a temperature
rise of point oh one centigrade one hundred micro centigrade.
You know, you can't measure that. It's too small to measure,
So it's all pain, no gain the environment. It's complete madness.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Are we all wasting at time? Unlist the likes of
you Mit Trump and the US and India and China
and Russia play ball on reducing emissions.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yes, of course you're wasting your time, you know. But
in the process many people are being enriched, you know,
with no benefit to the environment. Just look, you know,
the old advice follow the money is a good idea.
You know, look around to see who's benefiting from this.
Who you know who is selling you know, when turbines,
(06:35):
who's selling solar panels, you know who is selling bulluses
for cattle. Lots of people are very happy with this.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Professor will happen with us from Princeton University. Yea, carbon
credits the Emperor's new clothes.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, carbon credits is part of the scam. You know,
there is no there is no emergency, there's no need
for carbon credits. If you look at the effects of
carbon dioxide, the only clear effect you can measure over
the past fifty years is everywhere on Earth it is
greener than it used to be. So carbon dioxide has
(07:12):
very little effect on the climate or on the weather,
but it has a big positive effect on growing things,
on plants, because we've been in a carbon dioxide famine
for you know, several million years now, and plants are
breathing a sigh of relief. Finally we're getting enough carbon dioxide,
(07:32):
speaking as a plant, you know, to grow better.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
When it comes to global warming and the inevitable things
like sea rise, and I don't think you can argue
against that. Are we better to mitigate or are we
better to adapt?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, I think you have to adapt because nothing we
do about greenhouse gases will affect sea level rise. Sea
level rise began around eighteen hundred when the Earth began
to pull out of the last ice, the little ice age,
and it had nothing to do with emissions of carbon
dioxide or methane. And it's going to continue no matter
(08:10):
what we do about those greenhouse gas.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
But surely, man burning fossil fuels is the main problem,
and there's no argument that we're doing a hell of
a lot more of that now than we did, for instance,
in eighteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I don't see that burning fossil fuels is any problem
at all, it has made lifespans double and triple. It's
made people live today like kings used to live two
or three centuries ago. It's done no harm for the environment.
It's made the environment better. So I don't see any
problem with burning fossil fuels as long as we can
(08:46):
afford to extract them and use them.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You realize some people listening to this, Professor Wilhappa, will
call you a climate change deny out and out.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I don't know what they're talking about, because I
certainly don't don't deny that climate changes. What they're saying
is that I am interfering with their religious preaching about
repentance and for imaginary sins that don't even exist.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Professor will Happa, thanks for some of your time. I
know you've got speaking engagements over the next few days
in New Zealand. Safe travels home to the States, and
we'll watch with interest what happens to you, mate Donald
Trump and broker in peace around the world, and perhaps
of more interest to us, what he does on trade
tariffs over the next year or so. Thank you very
much for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you, Jamie, it was a pleasure
And next guest on the country is a very interesting character.
He's in the country at the moment on the speaking
tour at the behest I think of Groundswell. His name
is Professor will Happen Now. He is a emeritus physics
professor from Princeton University. And Well, the thing that I
(00:20):
find fascinating about you before we get on to why
you're in New Zealand, is your background. You served under
two presidential administrations, George HW. Bush and then the first
Trump administration. Tell us about your background.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, I'm a physicist and I've spent most of my
life doing physics in one way or another, but parts
of it have been in Washington, DC as a bureaucrat,
you know, doing scientific administration. So during Bush Senior's presidency,
(00:55):
I was Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy,
and so I was responsible for all of the non
weapons basic research there. And under mister Trump, I served
for a year in the National Security Council, working with
John Bolton, and my job there was to help him
(01:17):
on emerging technologies. But I only agreed to go if
they would let me try and get some common sense
into the climate issue. And so I spent a year
trying to get that to happen. And after the deer
was up and nothing happened, I returned to Princeton on
good terms with our friends at the White House.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
But did Trump sack you?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
No, No, certainly not. Yeah, he was a good friend
and very strong supporter his political advisors who urged him
not to touch this climate issue. They thought it would
cost him votes.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Who was the best Republican president out of George Bush
Senior Trump.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, they both had their strengths. You know. George Bush
Senior was much more a traditional Republican, you know, from
a wealthy family and sort of a country club Republican
I guess you would call him. And mister Trump is
certainly not in that mold. He's also I think a
(02:26):
good president. Good presidents, you know, try to change things
and make things better, and Trump is trying to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Now the ground swell PI tells me that you're here
for a serious conversation around climate change policy. And I
know that you're a physics professor, but are you qualified
to speak about climate change? Are you a climate change denier?
Or conversely, does climate change actually exist?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Well, I guess I deny that there is any climate emergency.
You know, that's certainly an absurd idea if you look
at the facts. As a physicist, you know, I'm probably
most famous for inventing the sodium guide star, which is
(03:18):
used at all astronomical sites on the ground today practically
to improve the scene of stars and galaxies. And that's
why I wasted invited to Washington the first time to
work for mister Bush was because I had solved an
important problem for the star Wars effort under Reagan, so
(03:41):
they knew I knew how to solve technical problems. But
that background on the atmosphere, and that's the key part
of climate. You know, most climate scientists know a lot
less than I do about how the atmosphere works.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Doctor or professor. Will happen with us see on a
speaking tour of New Zealand. Is the planet warming? Surely
you can't deny that.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
No, of course, I don't deny that the planet began
to warm around the year eighteen hundred, long before there
was any increase in carbon dioxide. Nobody's quite sure why.
But the previous several centuries was the Little Ice Age,
when the planet was unusually cold. And then you go
(04:24):
back a few additional centuries. You come to the year
of one eleven hundred, when it was much warmer than today,
they were farming the south of Greenland. You can dig
up the old Norse farms today and find that we're
growing barley and other crops that you can't ripen there today.
The climate isn't warm.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
U Methine emissions from ruminants the problem, because that's where
I have a bit of an argument against this, isn't
that part of the carbon cycle.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, methane is absolutely essential to ruminants if they're going
to efficient digest their food. They can't get maximum value
out of the forage that they eat without emitting methane
and carbon dioxide, and methane is indeed a greenhouse gas
(05:15):
like carbon dioxide or water vapor, which is by far
the most important. But the effects of methane are trivially small.
You know, if New Zealand, for example, reduces methane emissions
by fourteen percent, that will come at an enormous cost
to the people of New Zealand, especially the farmers will
(05:38):
pick up the burden, and it will save a temperature
rise of point oh one centigrade one hundred micro centigrade.
You know, you can't measure that. It's too small to measure,
So it's all pain, no gain the environment. It's complete madness.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Are we all wasting at time? Unlist the likes of
you Mit Trump and the US and India and China
and Russia play ball on reducing emissions.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yes, of course you're wasting your time, you know. But
in the process many people are being enriched, you know,
with no benefit to the environment. Just look, you know,
the old advice follow the money is a good idea.
You know, look around to see who's benefiting from this.
Who you know who is selling you know, when turbines,
(06:35):
who's selling solar panels, you know who is selling bulluses
for cattle. Lots of people are very happy with this.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Professor will happen with us from Princeton University. Yea, carbon
credits the Emperor's new clothes.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, carbon credits is part of the scam. You know,
there is no there is no emergency, there's no need
for carbon credits. If you look at the effects of
carbon dioxide, the only clear effect you can measure over
the past fifty years is everywhere on Earth it is
greener than it used to be. So carbon dioxide has
(07:12):
very little effect on the climate or on the weather,
but it has a big positive effect on growing things,
on plants, because we've been in a carbon dioxide famine
for you know, several million years now, and plants are
breathing a sigh of relief. Finally we're getting enough carbon dioxide,
(07:32):
speaking as a plant, you know, to grow better.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
When it comes to global warming and the inevitable things
like sea rise, and I don't think you can argue
against that. Are we better to mitigate or are we
better to adapt?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, I think you have to adapt because nothing we
do about greenhouse gases will affect sea level rise. Sea
level rise began around eighteen hundred when the Earth began
to pull out of the last ice, the little ice age,
and it had nothing to do with emissions of carbon
dioxide or methane. And it's going to continue no matter
(08:10):
what we do about those greenhouse gas.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
But surely, man burning fossil fuels is the main problem,
and there's no argument that we're doing a hell of
a lot more of that now than we did, for instance,
in eighteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I don't see that burning fossil fuels is any problem
at all, it has made lifespans double and triple. It's
made people live today like kings used to live two
or three centuries ago. It's done no harm for the environment.
It's made the environment better. So I don't see any
problem with burning fossil fuels as long as we can
(08:46):
afford to extract them and use them.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You realize some people listening to this, Professor Wilhappa, will
call you a climate change deny out and out.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I don't know what they're talking about, because I
certainly don't don't deny that climate changes. What they're saying
is that I am interfering with their religious preaching about
repentance and for imaginary sins that don't even exist.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Professor will Happa, thanks for some of your time. I
know you've got speaking engagements over the next few days
in New Zealand. Safe travels home to the States, and
we'll watch with interest what happens to you, mate Donald
Trump and broker in peace around the world, and perhaps
of more interest to us, what he does on trade
tariffs over the next year or so. Thank you very
much for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you, Jamie, it was a pleasure
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com