August 12, 2025 • 8 mins
The PM ponders Winston's response to the proposed sale of 65% of the Alliance Group to Irish-based Dawn Meats. Plus, we discuss high-vis vests, urgent economic action to protect exports, capital gains tax, wealth tax, and being the most unpopular PM since Jim Bolger.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the Country, the PM kicks off the show,
Christopher Luxen, do you want to start with the urgent
economic action taken this week to protect their ex sports
or do you want to start with your former Deputy
Prime Minister Winston Peters. He's very much against the proposed
sale of the Alliance Group or sixty five percent of
(00:20):
it to an Irish based meat company. Now he's totally
anti foreign investment. Surely that flies in the face of
what you're trying to achieve in this country right now.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, look, I mean, in my conversations with him, needs
actually up for very much productive overseas foreign direct investment
in jew Zealand. In fact, we need in this country,
right That's how we get capital and you know, to
keep companies as the companies have cash that they can
expand and grow with. But it's also how we get
knowledge and often connections to overseas market. So look on
(00:52):
the Alliance thing. Look, it's often a matter for farmers
and shareholders. They able to make the best decision for
their company. I understand it's kind of a lot of consultation.
I guess before the vote, just encourage everyone to get involved.
But our job is to keep making decisions and ultimately,
you know, everyone's in toime to their opinion once it included.
But in the end it's only the shareholders that will
make that decision.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Does the Coalition government have a position on wearing Hiver's vests?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Did you see a trip on the first test train
on the CRL which was a bit unusual because you
know it was it was a test you know, train
sort of service. But as to why exactly we needed
hard hats and glasses and stuff, I'm not quite sure.
But I was, frankly just much more excited to get
on board and see a project that I know will
be very important to York on CBD and has been
(01:38):
going for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
It's it's actually, Jamie, really very impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I mean I used to catch the underground in New
York and London when I lived there, and.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You know, what they've built is actually world class. I mean,
it's like excellent times.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Prime Minister. It's a nice deflection. But he has a
cantankere assault barger, isn't he? Even though we do.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Love Winston, Winston's Winston and we love them.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, it's all good, okay, happiness filled on the Coalition government.
Talk to me about the urgent action taken to prevent
what could have amounted to a stop work notice for
thousands of New Zealand farmers.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, look, I mean I think there was about there
was a discharge rules that the RMA had that would
I think required from memory, Jamie, just under three thousand
Whitehadow farms to go off and get resource consents in
the next sexs to twelve months for quite regular actually
on farm activity that they've already been doing. So, you know,
as I've said to you before, you know, and I
hope that you can see it. And farmer confidence numbers
(02:35):
at the moment. They understand they've got a government that's
backing them, and when we see barnacles that are slowing
the boats down, and obviously red tape's getting in the
way of getting on into farming, we're working really hard
to try and get.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Rid of all that stuff. So I thought it was
a good divinsion.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
You need someone in the PR department to come up
with a new analogy. I think you're overdoing the barnacles one.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Really. Well, you're a creative chat maybe you can come
up with it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, I don't know my wife says I'm full of
cliches as well, so perhaps I can't talk. Let's move on.
We've talked about Winston and the high vers, so the
next one and Winston said on the show, yes that
I buger the poles. Are you going to channel a
bit of a Jim Bolger yourself and say buger the
polls because you, Prime Minister are now the most unpopular
(03:20):
prime minister since Jim Bolger in the mid nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, look, I mean I've just got a different approach
to it all, which is, look, the country put us
into power right and we have an MMP system. You
may like it, you may love it, it doesn't matter.
The bottom line is that's what New Zealanders want to
have with their electoral system. They have an election. We
had an election in twenty twenty three. We formed a
coalition government to govern New Zealand. They wanted us to
get on and crack on and get stuff done. And
(03:46):
they'll have an opportunity at the in twenty twenty six
to make a decision as would have done a good
job or otherwise may want someone else. And so you know,
as you saw this week, there's lots of poles roaming
around any given week, they say lots of different things.
The key messages on inbiguously clear from me, and it
has been from day one is you know, this is
a really tough time for New Zealand and they want
me to get on and fix the economy.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And so I have to be honest, Alian, I don't get.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Too perturbed about polls. I mean, ultimately, the only one
that matters will be next year. And in an intervening period.
It's like head down, tail up, keep working on improving
the economy. And the economy is really difficult. We've been
in the toughest recession we've had since thirty five years,
back to the early nineties, back to the Bulgary years.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
We've actually had, you know, as.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You saw last week, a COVID hangover that was worse
than any other country, that contributed to cost of living
crisis because Labour spent sixty six billion dollars on a
COVID response that was found to be causing more grief.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
And then you've had you know, we've had.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Good growth at the end of last year, we had
good growth at the beginning of this year, and then
you had April with Liberation Day, and all hell breaks
loose around the world and as a consequence there's been
a massive loss of confidence and sentiments so in the.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
World and the New Zealand as well. So you know
our job is.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You know, you're seeing a two speed recovery at the moment.
If you're in primary industry South Island, you know, even
Hawk's Bay with horticultures going great. You know, people are
experiencing some growth and luring.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Unemployment.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think Southland's down to two point nine percent or something.
But if you're in Auckland and Wellington, yep, in.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
The cities, it's tougher.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That's why we've got investment boost help Manufacturing's why we've
got six billion dollars worth of projects of infrastructure with
shovels on the ground before Christmas happening.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
So yeah, but it's tough. You know, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Now. The election next year is going to be won
and lost on the economy unless Winston goes a while
in between times. And I think that's where the coalition
government will won't it, because my take on it is
that the economy will be better in twelve months time
than it is today. But how big of a battleground
will be capital gains wealth tax. Because Chris Hipkins is
(05:46):
going to come out with that. We'll ask him about
it on tomorrow's show.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
He has to front on this. I mean, this is
a guy that actually created the mess that we're in, right,
I mean, honestly, it's quite unbelievable. You know, you saw
the Treasury report last week that said six sixty six
billion dollars was spent on you know, in the COVID
period cause a massive hangover inflation. Our debt has tripled
from sixty to one hundred and eighty billion dollars. I'm
writing an interest bill each year of nine to ten
(06:11):
billion dollars, which is nine to ten billion dollars, and
it gets been on schools, hospitals or roads, thank you,
Chris Hipkins. So you know, and then he wants, you know,
a wealth tax, a capital gains tax. He's not clear
about it now. He's saying about, you know, I'm not
sure it's ruled in or out on houses, God knows.
I mean, and they're not talking about it, and they
wonder they don't want to talk about it because the
last thing you do on needs right now, coming out
(06:32):
of the difficulty at a moment times is more taxes
and so you know, and he's not fronting on it
at all.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
But you know, you got Chloe.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Swarbrick saying she wants to be the finance minister. Well,
she wants eighty eight billion dollars of new taxes, wealth inheritance,
capital gains tax, the whole monty. And she wants to
go borrow another forty four billion dollars on top of
the one hundred and twenty billion that you know Hipkins
are added to it last time. So you know, we
know what the deal is, right, They are to simple
spend more, tax more, borrow more, just just go loaded
(07:01):
up and just create the mess that we make.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Maybe Jerry Brownly needs to ban Chloe permanently from the house. Look,
a capital gains tax is going to bring in precious
little to start with, so it's not going to solve
our woes. I think the endgame here is not a
capital gains tax from Chippy. It's a wealth tax that
brings in money on day one.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
But I can tell you a wealth tax is terrible
for New Zealand because the people with money who actually
create the jobs, who take a risk to start a
business to build a business to say, and you've seen it,
you know the Scandinavian one of the saying Norway, I
think did it. They had a massive number of their
people leave the country. You've just seen the UK make
changes to some of their tax rules that have actually
led to a whole bunch of successful people leaving and
(07:44):
going into the Middle East and setting.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
A capital up there.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So you know, that's what you get is, you know,
the wealth creators, the risk takers, the wealth generators, the
employers end up taking a capital investing it somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And I can tell you that will happen.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And so you know, a capital tax on a farm
or property or on your superannuation, you know that is
just not what New Zealanders need, you know. So they
are big thing. We have to grow the economy. If
we can get the economy growing, we're projected to grow
just under three percent of the next over the next year.
Each year for the next four years, we've projected to
create those two hundred and forty thousand new jobs over
(08:18):
the four year period. You know, we've got to grow
the economy and lift the living standards of New Zealanders.
And that's Jamie, why I keep coming back to this
agenda that we keep talking about, which is, you know,
we've got to get a world class education. Syre's some
more technology innovation. You've seen it in dairy and other sector,
you know, in horticulture being applied to your industries to
get higher margins. We've got to do more trade and investment,
(08:38):
get rid of the red tape and build.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Out proper infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
So that's the way you improve people's incomes and wealth
as a result.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And you forgot to mention getting the barnacles off the boat. Look,
I've run out of time, prime and of stuff, and
no time to even discuss the PDA with Elbow and Coeenstown.
I'll catch you again next week. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Thanks Jamie, you have a great week. See ma.
Wednesdays on the Country, the PM kicks off the show,
Christopher Luxen, do you want to start with the urgent
economic action taken this week to protect their ex sports
or do you want to start with your former Deputy
Prime Minister Winston Peters. He's very much against the proposed
sale of the Alliance Group or sixty five percent of
(00:20):
it to an Irish based meat company. Now he's totally
anti foreign investment. Surely that flies in the face of
what you're trying to achieve in this country right now.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, look, I mean, in my conversations with him, needs
actually up for very much productive overseas foreign direct investment
in jew Zealand. In fact, we need in this country,
right That's how we get capital and you know, to
keep companies as the companies have cash that they can
expand and grow with. But it's also how we get
knowledge and often connections to overseas market. So look on
(00:52):
the Alliance thing. Look, it's often a matter for farmers
and shareholders. They able to make the best decision for
their company. I understand it's kind of a lot of consultation.
I guess before the vote, just encourage everyone to get involved.
But our job is to keep making decisions and ultimately,
you know, everyone's in toime to their opinion once it included.
But in the end it's only the shareholders that will
make that decision.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Does the Coalition government have a position on wearing Hiver's vests?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Did you see a trip on the first test train
on the CRL which was a bit unusual because you
know it was it was a test you know, train
sort of service. But as to why exactly we needed
hard hats and glasses and stuff, I'm not quite sure.
But I was, frankly just much more excited to get
on board and see a project that I know will
be very important to York on CBD and has been
(01:38):
going for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
It's it's actually, Jamie, really very impressive.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I mean I used to catch the underground in New
York and London when I lived there, and.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
You know, what they've built is actually world class. I mean,
it's like excellent times.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Prime Minister. It's a nice deflection. But he has a
cantankere assault barger, isn't he? Even though we do.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Love Winston, Winston's Winston and we love them.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, it's all good, okay, happiness filled on the Coalition government.
Talk to me about the urgent action taken to prevent
what could have amounted to a stop work notice for
thousands of New Zealand farmers.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, look, I mean I think there was about there
was a discharge rules that the RMA had that would
I think required from memory, Jamie, just under three thousand
Whitehadow farms to go off and get resource consents in
the next sexs to twelve months for quite regular actually
on farm activity that they've already been doing. So, you know,
as I've said to you before, you know, and I
hope that you can see it. And farmer confidence numbers
(02:35):
at the moment. They understand they've got a government that's
backing them, and when we see barnacles that are slowing
the boats down, and obviously red tape's getting in the
way of getting on into farming, we're working really hard
to try and get.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Rid of all that stuff. So I thought it was
a good divinsion.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
You need someone in the PR department to come up
with a new analogy. I think you're overdoing the barnacles one.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Really. Well, you're a creative chat maybe you can come
up with it.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, I don't know my wife says I'm full of
cliches as well, so perhaps I can't talk. Let's move on.
We've talked about Winston and the high vers, so the
next one and Winston said on the show, yes that
I buger the poles. Are you going to channel a
bit of a Jim Bolger yourself and say buger the
polls because you, Prime Minister are now the most unpopular
(03:20):
prime minister since Jim Bolger in the mid nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, look, I mean I've just got a different approach
to it all, which is, look, the country put us
into power right and we have an MMP system. You
may like it, you may love it, it doesn't matter.
The bottom line is that's what New Zealanders want to
have with their electoral system. They have an election. We
had an election in twenty twenty three. We formed a
coalition government to govern New Zealand. They wanted us to
get on and crack on and get stuff done. And
(03:46):
they'll have an opportunity at the in twenty twenty six
to make a decision as would have done a good
job or otherwise may want someone else. And so you know,
as you saw this week, there's lots of poles roaming
around any given week, they say lots of different things.
The key messages on inbiguously clear from me, and it
has been from day one is you know, this is
a really tough time for New Zealand and they want
me to get on and fix the economy.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And so I have to be honest, Alian, I don't get.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Too perturbed about polls. I mean, ultimately, the only one
that matters will be next year. And in an intervening period.
It's like head down, tail up, keep working on improving
the economy. And the economy is really difficult. We've been
in the toughest recession we've had since thirty five years,
back to the early nineties, back to the Bulgary years.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
We've actually had, you know, as.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You saw last week, a COVID hangover that was worse
than any other country, that contributed to cost of living
crisis because Labour spent sixty six billion dollars on a
COVID response that was found to be causing more grief.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
And then you've had you know, we've had.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Good growth at the end of last year, we had
good growth at the beginning of this year, and then
you had April with Liberation Day, and all hell breaks
loose around the world and as a consequence there's been
a massive loss of confidence and sentiments so in the.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
World and the New Zealand as well. So you know
our job is.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You know, you're seeing a two speed recovery at the moment.
If you're in primary industry South Island, you know, even
Hawk's Bay with horticultures going great. You know, people are
experiencing some growth and luring.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Unemployment.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I think Southland's down to two point nine percent or something.
But if you're in Auckland and Wellington, yep, in.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
The cities, it's tougher.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
That's why we've got investment boost help Manufacturing's why we've
got six billion dollars worth of projects of infrastructure with
shovels on the ground before Christmas happening.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
So yeah, but it's tough. You know, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Now. The election next year is going to be won
and lost on the economy unless Winston goes a while
in between times. And I think that's where the coalition
government will won't it, because my take on it is
that the economy will be better in twelve months time
than it is today. But how big of a battleground
will be capital gains wealth tax. Because Chris Hipkins is
(05:46):
going to come out with that. We'll ask him about
it on tomorrow's show.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
He has to front on this. I mean, this is
a guy that actually created the mess that we're in, right,
I mean, honestly, it's quite unbelievable. You know, you saw
the Treasury report last week that said six sixty six
billion dollars was spent on you know, in the COVID
period cause a massive hangover inflation. Our debt has tripled
from sixty to one hundred and eighty billion dollars. I'm
writing an interest bill each year of nine to ten
(06:11):
billion dollars, which is nine to ten billion dollars, and
it gets been on schools, hospitals or roads, thank you,
Chris Hipkins. So you know, and then he wants, you know,
a wealth tax, a capital gains tax. He's not clear
about it now. He's saying about, you know, I'm not
sure it's ruled in or out on houses, God knows.
I mean, and they're not talking about it, and they
wonder they don't want to talk about it because the
last thing you do on needs right now, coming out
(06:32):
of the difficulty at a moment times is more taxes
and so you know, and he's not fronting on it
at all.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
But you know, you got Chloe.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Swarbrick saying she wants to be the finance minister. Well,
she wants eighty eight billion dollars of new taxes, wealth inheritance,
capital gains tax, the whole monty. And she wants to
go borrow another forty four billion dollars on top of
the one hundred and twenty billion that you know Hipkins
are added to it last time. So you know, we
know what the deal is, right, They are to simple
spend more, tax more, borrow more, just just go loaded
(07:01):
up and just create the mess that we make.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Maybe Jerry Brownly needs to ban Chloe permanently from the house. Look,
a capital gains tax is going to bring in precious
little to start with, so it's not going to solve
our woes. I think the endgame here is not a
capital gains tax from Chippy. It's a wealth tax that
brings in money on day one.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
But I can tell you a wealth tax is terrible
for New Zealand because the people with money who actually
create the jobs, who take a risk to start a
business to build a business to say, and you've seen it,
you know the Scandinavian one of the saying Norway, I
think did it. They had a massive number of their
people leave the country. You've just seen the UK make
changes to some of their tax rules that have actually
led to a whole bunch of successful people leaving and
(07:44):
going into the Middle East and setting.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
A capital up there.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
So you know, that's what you get is, you know,
the wealth creators, the risk takers, the wealth generators, the
employers end up taking a capital investing it somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And I can tell you that will happen.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And so you know, a capital tax on a farm
or property or on your superannuation, you know that is
just not what New Zealanders need, you know. So they
are big thing. We have to grow the economy. If
we can get the economy growing, we're projected to grow
just under three percent of the next over the next year.
Each year for the next four years, we've projected to
create those two hundred and forty thousand new jobs over
(08:18):
the four year period. You know, we've got to grow
the economy and lift the living standards of New Zealanders.
And that's Jamie, why I keep coming back to this
agenda that we keep talking about, which is, you know,
we've got to get a world class education. Syre's some
more technology innovation. You've seen it in dairy and other sector,
you know, in horticulture being applied to your industries to
get higher margins. We've got to do more trade and investment,
(08:38):
get rid of the red tape and build.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Out proper infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
So that's the way you improve people's incomes and wealth
as a result.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And you forgot to mention getting the barnacles off the boat. Look,
I've run out of time, prime and of stuff, and
no time to even discuss the PDA with Elbow and Coeenstown.
I'll catch you again next week. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Thanks Jamie, you have a great week. See ma.
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