The Country 13/08/25: Kate Acland talks to Jamie Mackay

Following on from “Forestry Oracle” Dennis Neilson on yesterday’s show, the Beef + Lamb NZ chairwoman says the government has not gone far enough on carbon farming reforms. We also get her thoughts on the state of the red meat industry, in light of the proposed recapitalisation of the Alliance Group.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is the day for chair women today on the country.
Very shortly Tracy Brown in Mada Matter for dairy and
z but it's Kate Ackland Mid Canterbury for beef and
lamb New Zealand all the industry good bodies on the
show today. And Kate, even though you are a woman,
you've got the man flu. Ah.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yeah, I'm a little bit under the weather, Jamie. I've
been on the road for the last week doing farmer
road shows, so just enjoying a quiet day at home today.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Did the interview on yesterday's show with the self anointed
Oracle of forestry, Dennis Neilson make you feel any better?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, look, I wasn't quite sure where he was coming
from actually, to be honest, but he was very complimentary
of the job that the farmer Lobby had done, so
that was one thing. But you know, look, it's never
actually been a forestry versus sheet and beef. You know,
we're quite supportive of forestry. It's carbon farming that we've

(00:56):
got the issue with.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
See one of the sticking points I had with Dennis,
and he wasn't able to tell me the answer. I'm
not sure anyone knows the answer at this point in time.
But how many of these supposed and inverted commas carbon
forests will ever be harvested? He said, no one plants
a tree without the idea of harvesting it. I don't
buy that.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, Look, we know that's not true and anecdotally, and
we've got some research to back it up. There is
quite a number of forests that have been planted for
offsetting that won't be harvested. So you know that the
changes the government's proposed are a good start. We're really
concerned they're not going to go far enough. But there
is absolutely trees being planted across good quality farmland in
New Zealand that will never be harvested.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
So Dennis was saying and paying tribute to the PR
departments at Beef and Lamb, New Zealand and also Federated Farmers.
He said, you were laying it on a bit thick,
but he conceded you'd done a better job of lobbying
than the forestry industry. And the other thing that he
said is that basically your lobbying and the PR machine
has shut down the forestry industry. According to him, no

(02:01):
one is buying pine seedlings.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Look, time will tell whether that's true or not. You know,
I think it's taken a little bit of wind out
of the sales the government's announcements, so that is a
good thing. But look, absolutely trees within farms can and
should continue. So it's all about getting that right tree
in the right place. As you said yesterday, forest tree
is a really important part of our export portfolio.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and it's struggling a bit at the moment in
terms of economic returns. Our farmers and foresters can be friends.
You've got lots of trees on your farm. Are you
going to harvest those? Some of the ones way out
the back A.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Look, we've planted every tree on our farm with the
intention of harvesting it. So we've got about ten percent
of our property in trees and sort of those south
facing gullies and areas that aren't really productive. So we've
managed to do that and hold our stocking rates at
what it was before. So for us, it's a really
great divestification to the business without taking the good quality land.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
See Dennis says, you guys about flank them. You guys
at Beef and Lamb are saying the government hasn't gone
far enough. No one seems to be happy.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
All. We do have concerns that this won't go far enough.
We think it'll still see up to a million hectares
of farmland planted in trees by twenty fifty, but look,
time will tell, and I think we're going to have
to watch this bond very closely and continue to watch
it very closely. But fundamentally, it's not the forestry, it's
the ets, settings and the off setting that is driving this.

(03:31):
It's creating that false market and that sort of incentive
or subsidy for tree planting.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
But Kate, how do we meet our emissions reduction targets
without planting pine trees? As brutal as that truth is.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, there's a few parts to that. We need to
get those emissions reductions targets right. Pine trees will be
part of the answer that we actually know the technology
exists for reducing fossil fells already for electrification, so while
people are to just plant pine trees, they don't actually
need to make any any changes on things like fossil fuels.

(04:05):
So you know, we are the only country in the
world other than Kazakhstan that allows one hundred percent of setting.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Kate Ackland, chair of Beef and Lamb New Zealand with us.
The other topic djure at the moment out there is
the proposed sale of sixty five percent of the Alliance
group to Irish meat company Dawn Meats. Does Beef and
Lamb New Zealand have an official position on this one?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, look, Jamie, obviously I can't comment on the specifics,
but this is a really big decision for Farmer shareholders,
but for all of New Zealand. So I guess I'd
be strongly urging all of those Alliance shareholders just to
make sure that you fully read the documentation, that you
understand the implications, and just make sure that you vote
because apathy is a real issue in a lot of

(04:51):
our filing elections, So this is one that's really critical
that people get involved in and sort of understand what's
going on and have you.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Say the problem that you have, i e. The red
meat industry has is your industry model is fatally flawed
as it stands at the moment.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I'm not sure if i'd call it fatally flawed,
but look, absolutely there are some structural and over capacity
issues that will need to be dealt with and this
will be one step that I think we'll continue to
see some changes coming.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, but you're fighting each other at the farm gate
to get the stock, and then you're fighting one another.
I'm talking about the meat companies here on the other
side of the world trying to market it.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah. Look, and obviously there are more plants, then we
have live doctor fill them and that's really not helping issues.
So there are a lot of things that need to
be dealt with absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Well, if Dennis Neilson has his way, he'll plant a
whole lot more pine trees. We won't have to worry
about the red meat industry. Kate Ackland, thanks for some
of your time today, and good luck battling the man flu.
Women aren't meant to get the man flu, by the way,
you're meant to battle on with it.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Well, I'm trying gout on you.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Thanks for your time.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Thanks