August 14, 2025 • 6 mins
A Taranaki-based forestry consultant takes issue with some of the comments made earlier in the week by forestry oracle and carbon farmer, Dennis Neilson, as he goes in to bat for the production forestry industry.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If we love your feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Here on the Country got an email from a forestry
consultant based out of New Plymouth.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
His name is cam Here and he said.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
To me, and this is in relation to the forestry
oracle Dennis Nelson, who was on the show earlier this week.
He said, asking Dennis those questions is like asking the
pr comms manager of Dairy and Z how to put
cups on the cows. And I went back to cam
and I said, what do you mean by all this?
And he said, well, I think Dennis is too far
(00:30):
removed from the coal face of the forestry industry to
provide the context required. And I think Dennis is full
of it on occasions, but I do enjoy bantering with him.
Here's a question for you, cam Here. Dennis said, as
far as he knows, every pine tree that is being
planted is being planted with the intention of harvesting it.
(00:51):
I call bs on that.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
What do you say, you're definitely pine trees being planted
with no intention to harvest. We know that in the
market a lot of them are still being planted for production,
so it would be fair to say that it's being
beaten up. The amounts that are being planted and with
no intention to harvest. But it's definitely happening.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So what about Dennis's other comment that the nurseries are
kind of going broke or they're going out of business
because no one's buying pine seedlings anymore. I'm assuming that
the production forestry just grinds on the industry.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm talking about auction forestry will roll on. Undoubtedly, investment
doesn't like uncertainty, so there will be less production of seedlings,
but from the production side of the seedlings, that will
just grind on and carry on. There's definitely orders happening.
I have clients who have ordered seedlings for next year
(01:45):
and they're ready to go.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So carbon credits must be a welcome addition to the
production forestry industry.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
They've certainly changed some of the cash flow scenarios, but
I guess it's also been confused and complexity that makes
it a bit harder to deal with. So we've just
got to deal with that.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So explain to me how this works, because I'm on
the outside looking in. If I'm a production forester and
I've planted a new forest, I can collect carbon credits
first time round, but after that I have to replant
the forest. I don't get carbon credits for the second rotation, or.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Do I.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You're talking about is what we call averaging accounting, where
you're eligible for the first sixteen years of carbon credit
production in the first rotation only, and then you must replant.
So yes, it is a financial windfall for the first
sixteen years, and then after that it's a production forest.
So still have to buy your investment based on your
(02:48):
production fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So let's talk about log prices at the moment. I
had someone text into the show yesterday, Cam who said
you would make three times as much money just chopping
it up for firewood.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Depends where you are. A large part of your return
is based on transport and harvesting, and so if your
topography is very steep and you're a long way from
the boat, then maybe your net return isn't as good.
But what we're seeing at the moment is the A
grade price is for this time of year, in the winter,
when it's typically low. This is the best A grade
(03:23):
price we've had for seven years August this time, so that.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Is a real positive.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What about when you get into the main season. I
didn't realize it was so seasonally price sensitive.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
It's not massively price sensitive. But traditionally the Chinese construction
market comes off the boil in our winter or their
summer because it's too hot, so there's a bit of
a dip and then that climbs into Q four. So yeah,
we're looking positive. They're definitely using less wood in their
construction sector. But yeah, we're set up for a reasonable
(03:59):
run this summer.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
See see might beef not with the forestry industry, but
with the carbon farming industry. Is right tree, right place?
And I've seen some horrendous examples of pine trees being
planted on reasonably highly productive pastoral land and in some
cases arable land. Now cam with all the best will
in the world, that is just not right.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It doesn't matter whether it's right or not, Jamie. Personal
property rights have to be protected. Am I going to
go and plant them myself?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
But I've got to get those policy settings right. So
but they can get that right. It's a little bit
hard for me to comment on everybody in the market.
I can only control what I can control.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
The way the settings are, or the proposed news legislation,
or drive forestry basically to the hills. But you guys
don't want to be planting production forestry in the back
of beyond and class seven, eight or nine land. It's
not suitable for harvesting forestry. Am I right in saying that.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Only eight classes net Class seven and eight is the
super steep and erodible soil. So that's a great way
to go. Broke A's to plant production pine trees on
that land and it's just not a good place to be.
So look, we have to get the settings right and
there has to be a bit of common ground found.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Final comment from your email, you said Shane Jones matur Shane,
the Prince of the provinces might pick up the ball
and run with it and give you a hand. Maybe
he could change drill baby drill to mill baby mill.
He is, of course the billion tree man. He got
it wrong first time round. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But is Martu of Shane on your side?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, Martu has got another job to do in my
home region of Taranaki getting us drilling. So we were
just hoping, and I guess as a production forester we
get asked a lot why can't we process more logs
in New Zealand? And unfortunately our policy settings and our
ability to build mills is very restricted. So hopefully Martua
(05:58):
can just change his tagline a little bit and get
mill baby mill going and we can get more production
happening in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Came here forestry consultants out of the Taranaki region.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Love your work, Thanks for your time, all right too,
Jamis
If we love your feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Here on the Country got an email from a forestry
consultant based out of New Plymouth.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
His name is cam Here and he said.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
To me, and this is in relation to the forestry
oracle Dennis Nelson, who was on the show earlier this week.
He said, asking Dennis those questions is like asking the
pr comms manager of Dairy and Z how to put
cups on the cows. And I went back to cam
and I said, what do you mean by all this?
And he said, well, I think Dennis is too far
(00:30):
removed from the coal face of the forestry industry to
provide the context required. And I think Dennis is full
of it on occasions, but I do enjoy bantering with him.
Here's a question for you, cam Here. Dennis said, as
far as he knows, every pine tree that is being
planted is being planted with the intention of harvesting it.
(00:51):
I call bs on that.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
What do you say, you're definitely pine trees being planted
with no intention to harvest. We know that in the
market a lot of them are still being planted for production,
so it would be fair to say that it's being
beaten up. The amounts that are being planted and with
no intention to harvest. But it's definitely happening.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So what about Dennis's other comment that the nurseries are
kind of going broke or they're going out of business
because no one's buying pine seedlings anymore. I'm assuming that
the production forestry just grinds on the industry.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm talking about auction forestry will roll on. Undoubtedly, investment
doesn't like uncertainty, so there will be less production of seedlings,
but from the production side of the seedlings, that will
just grind on and carry on. There's definitely orders happening.
I have clients who have ordered seedlings for next year
(01:45):
and they're ready to go.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So carbon credits must be a welcome addition to the
production forestry industry.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
They've certainly changed some of the cash flow scenarios, but
I guess it's also been confused and complexity that makes
it a bit harder to deal with. So we've just
got to deal with that.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So explain to me how this works, because I'm on
the outside looking in. If I'm a production forester and
I've planted a new forest, I can collect carbon credits
first time round, but after that I have to replant
the forest. I don't get carbon credits for the second rotation, or.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Do I.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You're talking about is what we call averaging accounting, where
you're eligible for the first sixteen years of carbon credit
production in the first rotation only, and then you must replant.
So yes, it is a financial windfall for the first
sixteen years, and then after that it's a production forest.
So still have to buy your investment based on your
(02:48):
production fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So let's talk about log prices at the moment. I
had someone text into the show yesterday, Cam who said
you would make three times as much money just chopping
it up for firewood.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Depends where you are. A large part of your return
is based on transport and harvesting, and so if your
topography is very steep and you're a long way from
the boat, then maybe your net return isn't as good.
But what we're seeing at the moment is the A
grade price is for this time of year, in the winter,
when it's typically low. This is the best A grade
(03:23):
price we've had for seven years August this time, so that.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Is a real positive.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What about when you get into the main season. I
didn't realize it was so seasonally price sensitive.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
It's not massively price sensitive. But traditionally the Chinese construction
market comes off the boil in our winter or their
summer because it's too hot, so there's a bit of
a dip and then that climbs into Q four. So yeah,
we're looking positive. They're definitely using less wood in their
construction sector. But yeah, we're set up for a reasonable
(03:59):
run this summer.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
See see might beef not with the forestry industry, but
with the carbon farming industry. Is right tree, right place?
And I've seen some horrendous examples of pine trees being
planted on reasonably highly productive pastoral land and in some
cases arable land. Now cam with all the best will
in the world, that is just not right.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It doesn't matter whether it's right or not, Jamie. Personal
property rights have to be protected. Am I going to
go and plant them myself?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
But I've got to get those policy settings right. So
but they can get that right. It's a little bit
hard for me to comment on everybody in the market.
I can only control what I can control.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
The way the settings are, or the proposed news legislation,
or drive forestry basically to the hills. But you guys
don't want to be planting production forestry in the back
of beyond and class seven, eight or nine land. It's
not suitable for harvesting forestry. Am I right in saying that.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Only eight classes net Class seven and eight is the
super steep and erodible soil. So that's a great way
to go. Broke A's to plant production pine trees on
that land and it's just not a good place to be.
So look, we have to get the settings right and
there has to be a bit of common ground found.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Final comment from your email, you said Shane Jones matur Shane,
the Prince of the provinces might pick up the ball
and run with it and give you a hand. Maybe
he could change drill baby drill to mill baby mill.
He is, of course the billion tree man. He got
it wrong first time round. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But is Martu of Shane on your side?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, Martu has got another job to do in my
home region of Taranaki getting us drilling. So we were
just hoping, and I guess as a production forester we
get asked a lot why can't we process more logs
in New Zealand? And unfortunately our policy settings and our
ability to build mills is very restricted. So hopefully Martua
(05:58):
can just change his tagline a little bit and get
mill baby mill going and we can get more production
happening in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Came here forestry consultants out of the Taranaki region.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Love your work, Thanks for your time, all right too,
Jamis
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.