June 15, 2025 • 7 mins
Deputy Dave is just back from the Oxford Union Debate, and on his way home, he decided to read Jacinda’s new book - A Different Kind of Power. Today he does a book review, plus we talk tabout he issues of the day, including whether health spending cuts should be on the table.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
David Seymore Deputy Davis, Well, this when did you get
back into the country, David.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh, just last night and you read.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Just send us book on the way home in the plane.
Was that rather than pop a Sleeping Pearl?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, I thought it might have the same effects. But
I got to say it is a very easy read,
and you have to admire some of her better qualities.
Now just hear me out. You know, she does have
a nice kind tone about her, and I think she's
genuine when she says that if we were able to
(00:33):
see the world through the eyes of a child and
make the world a better place from the perspective of children,
and she suddenly talks about getting lots of letters from
children that helped her make policy, then would have a
better world. And I'm kind of susceptible to that argument.
I just think that in order to make the world
a better place, you actually need some adults in the room.
(00:54):
And the main thing that's missing is there's absolutely no
self reflection on any of the result of her policies.
She doesn't mention for school policy or deaths, or taxes
or deficits once in the whole book, but it does
take about eleven chapters until she starts primary school.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Has she been overly demonized in this country?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Look, I think the reason that she has become so
polarizing for a lot of people is that she really
did promise so much, so much more kindness, but she
was prepared in practice to marginalize people. If you didn't
want to get vaccinated, turn the sprinklers on you and
mock you. If you had a firearm, you got blamed
for a terrorist attack. If you're a farmer, you face
(01:40):
and have a lunch of regulation suggesting that you're kind
of a bad person and trying to destroy your own land,
but you know will will come somehow help you be
a better person. And then, of course, if you're a landlord,
then you're obviously trying to take advantage of everyone that
you're actually providing a home to it. If you're if
(02:00):
you're an employer, you're obviously trying to rip off your staff,
so we'll put more rules on you there. So the
kindness and inclusion ended up being very much nastiness and
exclusion if you weren't in the in crowd, And I
think that is why people got so angry.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
How was the Oxford Union debate I've seen snippets of it.
Did you have your David Longe moment?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I don't think I quite managed to match the big man,
but I loved it mainly because of the quality of
a discussion. You know, Oxford Union was formed in about
eighteen hundred, sorry eighteen twenty three, when you weren't allowed
to criticize the church. They said, we're founding this thing
for free speech. So I love doing the debate. Our
(02:44):
team lost, but narrowly. I think we lost about one
hundred and ninety eight votes to one hundred and eighty three,
so we did reasonably well. We only lost by a
few percent if you work it out. And I just
thought it was great to be able to go debate
freely about our human rights universal or should we be
(03:04):
searching the past for reasons to resent each other along
the grounds of our ancestry. The contrast was the New
Zealand media you know, TV and Z reported that I
was defending speaking because some activists said I shouldn't be
allowed to because I'm a bad person. And the contrast
between a student club founded two hundred years ago to
(03:27):
defend free speech in the New Zealand media questioning whether
you know, someone who's elected by their peers to represent
them in Parliament should even be allowed to speak as
pretty staggering, but hey, look it also shows us how
we can have a better world in New Zealand by
being a bit more respectful of free speech.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You've just flown home. You will be acting prime minister
because our prime minister is about to fly off at
some stage this week I'm not sure when to China
on a trade trip, and he will be literally David
Seymour walking a diplomatic tightrope, I'd imagine.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, well, it's one of the challenges for New Zealand
is that the people who like to buy our produce.
And by the way, having just spent a week in Europe,
I can tell you I've got an even greater appreciation
for the Kiwi farmer. Our produce is so much better
at my stomachs that are starting to feel normal again
(04:21):
having been back for almost today. But look, unfortunately, the
people who are traditional allies are not so keen on
buying our produce, and the people who are keen on
buying our produce are always the people that we agree
with in terms of geopolitics. That is the typewrote that
(04:43):
every New Zealand Prime minist has had to walk for
a wee while now, and we certainly wish Chris all
the best and that mission that he has going from
Beijing to NATO in one week now.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I was reading online this morning that Treasury warns how
New Zealand cuts need to double. So the figures hint
at cuts of one point two billion dollars this year.
Health New Zealand needs six hundred million in savings. Why
on earth, David Seymour, Deputy Prime Minister, a man with influence,
(05:16):
are we cutting? Are we penny pinching on health?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well we're not, And let me just put in a
bit of context. Not twenty nineteen. The health budget was
eighteen billion last year. It was thirty billion this year.
I think it's about thirty one and a half. So
we've increased the amount of spending on healthcare by about
(05:40):
seventy percent in the last six years. The question is
where it will go and how do we get efficiency.
It didn't help that there was a pandemic, but that's
been gone. It didn't help the previous government decided to
restructure the entire health system in the middle of a pandemic.
But that's in the past. Now what our government has
to do is work out how to get value for
(06:03):
money out of the extraordinary increase in expenditure we've had
over the last six years, and you'll see us just
one little change at a time, figuring out how we
more efficiently get stuff done in this country.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Did you miss field days? Did you miss not going
to field days?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, it's probably the first field days I've missed in
a decade. I also missed the Grammar King's first fifteen game,
which was disastrously won by those people in the Maroon
from down South, So it's been a bad time for
my annual engagements. But Andrew Hoggard, by all accounts, did
a really good job, spoke well, and we're really grateful
(06:43):
for the reception that the rest of the ex team,
along with Mark Cameron and Karen sur and some of
our other MPs who were there. But they really got
a lot of love and also a lot of feedback.
So we are encouraged to keep working for Rural on
New Zellen he.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
When do you take over his acting? What day does
lux and fly out?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, I don't want to sound too pedantic that it's
six forty five am tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You're counting, you're counting the minutes?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Are you someone? Someone just told me a few minutes
ago so I happen to know.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Well, good on it. Thanks for your time today on
the Country and I'm glad you got home safely. And
that talking about talking about your man Andrew Hoggart. He's
coming up a wee bit later in the show on
our Farmer Politician panel. Lots of things happening at Field
Days to look back on, but David Seymour, thanks for
your time.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Fantastic See you, Jamie
David Seymore Deputy Davis, Well, this when did you get
back into the country, David.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh, just last night and you read.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Just send us book on the way home in the plane.
Was that rather than pop a Sleeping Pearl?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, I thought it might have the same effects. But
I got to say it is a very easy read,
and you have to admire some of her better qualities.
Now just hear me out. You know, she does have
a nice kind tone about her, and I think she's
genuine when she says that if we were able to
(00:33):
see the world through the eyes of a child and
make the world a better place from the perspective of children,
and she suddenly talks about getting lots of letters from
children that helped her make policy, then would have a
better world. And I'm kind of susceptible to that argument.
I just think that in order to make the world
a better place, you actually need some adults in the room.
(00:54):
And the main thing that's missing is there's absolutely no
self reflection on any of the result of her policies.
She doesn't mention for school policy or deaths, or taxes
or deficits once in the whole book, but it does
take about eleven chapters until she starts primary school.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Has she been overly demonized in this country?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Look, I think the reason that she has become so
polarizing for a lot of people is that she really
did promise so much, so much more kindness, but she
was prepared in practice to marginalize people. If you didn't
want to get vaccinated, turn the sprinklers on you and
mock you. If you had a firearm, you got blamed
for a terrorist attack. If you're a farmer, you face
(01:40):
and have a lunch of regulation suggesting that you're kind
of a bad person and trying to destroy your own land,
but you know will will come somehow help you be
a better person. And then, of course, if you're a landlord,
then you're obviously trying to take advantage of everyone that
you're actually providing a home to it. If you're if
(02:00):
you're an employer, you're obviously trying to rip off your staff,
so we'll put more rules on you there. So the
kindness and inclusion ended up being very much nastiness and
exclusion if you weren't in the in crowd, And I
think that is why people got so angry.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
How was the Oxford Union debate I've seen snippets of it.
Did you have your David Longe moment?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I don't think I quite managed to match the big man,
but I loved it mainly because of the quality of
a discussion. You know, Oxford Union was formed in about
eighteen hundred, sorry eighteen twenty three, when you weren't allowed
to criticize the church. They said, we're founding this thing
for free speech. So I love doing the debate. Our
(02:44):
team lost, but narrowly. I think we lost about one
hundred and ninety eight votes to one hundred and eighty three,
so we did reasonably well. We only lost by a
few percent if you work it out. And I just
thought it was great to be able to go debate
freely about our human rights universal or should we be
(03:04):
searching the past for reasons to resent each other along
the grounds of our ancestry. The contrast was the New
Zealand media you know, TV and Z reported that I
was defending speaking because some activists said I shouldn't be
allowed to because I'm a bad person. And the contrast
between a student club founded two hundred years ago to
(03:27):
defend free speech in the New Zealand media questioning whether
you know, someone who's elected by their peers to represent
them in Parliament should even be allowed to speak as
pretty staggering, but hey, look it also shows us how
we can have a better world in New Zealand by
being a bit more respectful of free speech.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You've just flown home. You will be acting prime minister
because our prime minister is about to fly off at
some stage this week I'm not sure when to China
on a trade trip, and he will be literally David
Seymour walking a diplomatic tightrope, I'd imagine.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, well, it's one of the challenges for New Zealand
is that the people who like to buy our produce.
And by the way, having just spent a week in Europe,
I can tell you I've got an even greater appreciation
for the Kiwi farmer. Our produce is so much better
at my stomachs that are starting to feel normal again
(04:21):
having been back for almost today. But look, unfortunately, the
people who are traditional allies are not so keen on
buying our produce, and the people who are keen on
buying our produce are always the people that we agree
with in terms of geopolitics. That is the typewrote that
(04:43):
every New Zealand Prime minist has had to walk for
a wee while now, and we certainly wish Chris all
the best and that mission that he has going from
Beijing to NATO in one week now.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I was reading online this morning that Treasury warns how
New Zealand cuts need to double. So the figures hint
at cuts of one point two billion dollars this year.
Health New Zealand needs six hundred million in savings. Why
on earth, David Seymour, Deputy Prime Minister, a man with influence,
(05:16):
are we cutting? Are we penny pinching on health?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well we're not, And let me just put in a
bit of context. Not twenty nineteen. The health budget was
eighteen billion last year. It was thirty billion this year.
I think it's about thirty one and a half. So
we've increased the amount of spending on healthcare by about
(05:40):
seventy percent in the last six years. The question is
where it will go and how do we get efficiency.
It didn't help that there was a pandemic, but that's
been gone. It didn't help the previous government decided to
restructure the entire health system in the middle of a pandemic.
But that's in the past. Now what our government has
to do is work out how to get value for
(06:03):
money out of the extraordinary increase in expenditure we've had
over the last six years, and you'll see us just
one little change at a time, figuring out how we
more efficiently get stuff done in this country.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Did you miss field days? Did you miss not going
to field days?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, it's probably the first field days I've missed in
a decade. I also missed the Grammar King's first fifteen game,
which was disastrously won by those people in the Maroon
from down South, So it's been a bad time for
my annual engagements. But Andrew Hoggard, by all accounts, did
a really good job, spoke well, and we're really grateful
(06:43):
for the reception that the rest of the ex team,
along with Mark Cameron and Karen sur and some of
our other MPs who were there. But they really got
a lot of love and also a lot of feedback.
So we are encouraged to keep working for Rural on
New Zellen he.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
When do you take over his acting? What day does
lux and fly out?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, I don't want to sound too pedantic that it's
six forty five am tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You're counting, you're counting the minutes?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Are you someone? Someone just told me a few minutes
ago so I happen to know.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Well, good on it. Thanks for your time today on
the Country and I'm glad you got home safely. And
that talking about talking about your man Andrew Hoggart. He's
coming up a wee bit later in the show on
our Farmer Politician panel. Lots of things happening at Field
Days to look back on, but David Seymour, thanks for
your time.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Fantastic See you, Jamie
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