July 17, 2025 • 9 mins
We ask, unscripted, the NZ First leader, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and former Deputy PM, if he’s more popular than ever? How much of that is due to Shane Jones? Is Stuart Nash auditioning to be an NZ First MP? Are local bodies out of control when it comes to rate increases? Plus, we hear his thoughts on the Paris Agreement and carbon farming.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you know what I like about this politician? Winston
Peters New Zealand First lead, A former Deputy Prime minister,
Foreign affairs ministers that I don't have to send them
questions in advance, and Winston Peters, you're the exception rather
than the rule these days.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well that's sad actually, because frankly, you know, if we
don't know the answer, we should say so and promise
to get back to you with it.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
All right, totally unscripted. You've got no idea what I'm
going to ask you. Here's my first question for you.
Are you more popular now than you've ever been since
New Zealand First was founded in nineteen ninety three the
taxpayers Union Curier poll, and I know you don't like Poles?
Has you sitting just under ten percent? You're ahead of
the Greens and Act.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
No, we were far more popular leading into the twenty
seventy election, whereupon the lape droptis bundle and change this leader.
And then of course everybody had a love fairs with
the sender and the Poles changed. Otherwise we'd have gone
to something. At that time. We were nineteen percent at
that time, were heading for twenty five percent, so you
know anything's possible.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Now, do you ever run across Bill English these days?
Have you said sorry, Bill, I got it wrong in
twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
No, I didn't even say that to Bill when I
saw him, because when I first talked to him straight
After's twenty seven in Lession, he took me aside to
say this. They said they're going to roll me, but
they haven't got the numbers. And I'm sitting here thing
than myself. Here I am, it's no n a sex.
I'm talking to Jim Bolger. But they've got a plan
on to roll them and place them with Jenny Shipley.
(01:32):
That's the kind of nightmare has facing and the National
Party knows it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Talking about New Zealand First current popularity and a bit
of it has to do with your performance to be
fair on the world stage as Foreign Affairs Minister. But
Shane Jones is a populist, There's no doubt about it.
He gets stuck into lizards and blind frogs and we
all like that. He's a bit non PC. Very entertaining.
What about Stuart Nash. He was on the show last
week basically auditioning for a role in the New Zealand
(02:00):
First Party are you going to give him a call?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, actually somebody who have paid that back to there
and I don't understand it to be an audition at all.
He was just giving you his frank views.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well what's the answer to my question though? Are you
going to give him a call?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
No, you've manufactured still met discussing with them and out
come and to think you're I'm going to support for it.
This is not my first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Where have I heard that before? But he plainly wants
to be in New Zealand first MP. Politically he sits
in the right slot for you guys, because I always
thought he was a bit far to the right for
the Labor Party, even though his great grandfather was a
Labor Prime minister. I think him and Shane Jones would
be a great one to two punch for New Zealand. First.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
No, Stuart's not part of the right. Stuart is a
very practical, grounded politician, like the old Labor Party was
when they got out there to build New Zealand and
build in perstruction, did all sorts of things and then
they went woke. In more recent times, set after Helen Clay,
they went totally work and they're not recognizable from what
(03:03):
they used to be. That's why Stuart's got no place.
It's call over the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well I'll take that as a yes. When is he
announcing his candidacy?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now there's two statements you're just made, not based on
what I said. But what do you want to say? Now? Look,
as I keep on saying in foreign affairs, please don't
listen to people who tell you what they want to happen.
Listen to people who think they know what might happen.
It's a big difference.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Talking about the Taxpayers Union, I talked about their poll.
They've come out with a league table for local body rates.
Now this is awful reading top ten cumulative rate increases
over the past three years has led by the West
Coast Regional Council at sixty five point five to seven
percent on an annual basis. The Cliffther District Council just
(03:49):
down the road from me, he's leading the charge at
sixteen and a half percent. Is the government right to
try and cap or kneecap these local bodies.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Us the governor's right. But when they make those statements,
they should be saying to themselves, but what was our
record where we shown the efficiency of public service delivery
and accountability for money. I can give you countless cases
of government waste. So but I've sent to some of
my colleagues before you preach to them and get your
own house and order or you know the old dictum
(04:21):
doctor heel thyself. You know, I'm talking about Wanganui wan
who's got to stand out record race rise, last race
rise two point two percent. That's what we need to
strive for. But then Womanhu hasn't gone out there and
put cycle ways everywhere, shut down, cars shut the city down,
like an Uben and Wellington. You see what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Oh well, I like our cycle way in Dunedin.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well you might like your Cyclewaydneda, but the needan's flat one's.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Lot and Dunedin's very much I don't know when the
last time you were here. Winston, it's very much like Wellington.
It's a harbor city. It's a hill city. But we
do have a wonderful cycle way around the harbor and
that is flat. Yeah I agree. Okay, look let's move
on from that. I want to talk about rates. Should
rates be or attax on wealth or should they actually
just be user pace? If you want to go to
(05:10):
the library or the swimming pool, you pay for it.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, there are combinations of what you're saying that are correct.
But I go back to two thousand and two. It's
a long way. I go and a guy called Shanda
a report on the local government and he made a
whole lot of recommendations. What he was saying was that
central governors loading local governor with all sorts of things
they're not in capable of doing and just passing on
to the rate bears. And because there's a wall between
(05:36):
the rate bears and the government and they can bring
the local governor, that's what they've done. We need to
properly reform all sectors of our government.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
A couple tore quickly finished on we're going to be
speaking to Bryce McKenzie, shortly co founder of Groundswell. He
wants us out of the Paris Agreement. Where does New
Zealand First sit as opposed to the Coalition, because the
Prime Minister said to me on Wednesday the Coalition was
totally supportive of us staying in the Paris Agreement. But
where does New Zealand First sit? And what are you
(06:06):
going to campaign on?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
We were the first ones that came out a long
time ago and said this, almost sixty percent of emissions
are coming out of China, India, Russia and the United States.
What we do is like a sneeze in the middle
of the night compared to the rest of them, and
nothing we can do can change that. So please, we said,
let's re examine what the Paris Accord was about. And
(06:28):
remember specifically it was to separate out from the accord
food growing or in primary production, in the sense that
we know that coming forward for the next thirty thirty
five years will need thirty to thirty five percent more food.
This is a critical area, but it was in general.
First has said let's re examine why we did this
(06:48):
in the first place, because I said, at the time
when the National Party went off with Paula Bennett two
Paris and sign up to the accord, they had no
idea of theore signing up to.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So take that as a yes.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Of course, this is yes. I'm saying that we have
got to re examine and look at the matter and
say to New Zealanders and in fact all over the world, say,
how can we make a difference when China's emissions are
above thirty percent.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, I'm not arguing with you on that one. One
to finish on this is from me. I'm hot under
the collar about this one. Carbon farming, the folly of
carbon farming, blanket planting our productive farmland as is happening
out there as we speak, when we're getting record prices
for red meat as an example, surely we should be
growing food, not pine trees.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I agree with the entirely. But when you say
not pine trees, no, we should be growing native, long
term native trees. Pine tree forests are just a desert underfoot.
If you go into a pines forest, there's nothing there. Now,
we want native forest built, and we're in a bill
of we're in a plant of billionum native forest. Plus
we're actually preserving agricultural land. That's precisely our policy, and
(07:57):
thank you for supporting it.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Well, you've changed your tune a bit for twenty seventeen
when your henchman Shane was running around planting a billion
pine trees.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, no, we're was pining a billion trees, not just
pine trees. But got out of hand. There should have
been balanced there.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So are you rewriting history here once? Then?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
No, I'm not rewriting history. I at the time was
Saya Shane. We need to be climbing those sorts of
trees and some of them will last three hundred and
four hundred years. But it's part of the cleaning up
of New Zealand's pollution. If I go to Scandinavia, I
can't see a waterway until I'm flying HERBD on a
helicopter or a plane. Why because they've got to feed
(08:34):
all down the sides of the banks of the rivers
and what have you. It's spectacular. And you know something,
they're way ahead of us in terms of all aspects
of the economy, and they're twice as rich as we are,
and maybe they've got some lessons to teach us. Meanwhile,
of course they are serious about agricultural production and but
when they talk about culture production. Here's a difference between
the National Party and others in New Zealand. First, we
(08:56):
want the added value to happen in New Zealand, not offshore.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Winston Peters, thanks for your time. Still there's a bit
of bark left in the old dog, isn't there. At
eighty years of age, going better than ever.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I don't know what you mean by that. I just
think nasty.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I mean, it wasn't nasty. It was just factual.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
If Final regulars say I will not use my complain
about my opponent's youth and inexperience, if they stopped talking
about my wisdom and.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Age, well, bless you. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Thank you,
Do you know what I like about this politician? Winston
Peters New Zealand First lead, A former Deputy Prime minister,
Foreign affairs ministers that I don't have to send them
questions in advance, and Winston Peters, you're the exception rather
than the rule these days.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well that's sad actually, because frankly, you know, if we
don't know the answer, we should say so and promise
to get back to you with it.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
All right, totally unscripted. You've got no idea what I'm
going to ask you. Here's my first question for you.
Are you more popular now than you've ever been since
New Zealand First was founded in nineteen ninety three the
taxpayers Union Curier poll, and I know you don't like Poles?
Has you sitting just under ten percent? You're ahead of
the Greens and Act.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
No, we were far more popular leading into the twenty
seventy election, whereupon the lape droptis bundle and change this leader.
And then of course everybody had a love fairs with
the sender and the Poles changed. Otherwise we'd have gone
to something. At that time. We were nineteen percent at
that time, were heading for twenty five percent, so you
know anything's possible.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Now, do you ever run across Bill English these days?
Have you said sorry, Bill, I got it wrong in
twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
No, I didn't even say that to Bill when I
saw him, because when I first talked to him straight
After's twenty seven in Lession, he took me aside to
say this. They said they're going to roll me, but
they haven't got the numbers. And I'm sitting here thing
than myself. Here I am, it's no n a sex.
I'm talking to Jim Bolger. But they've got a plan
on to roll them and place them with Jenny Shipley.
(01:32):
That's the kind of nightmare has facing and the National
Party knows it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Talking about New Zealand First current popularity and a bit
of it has to do with your performance to be
fair on the world stage as Foreign Affairs Minister. But
Shane Jones is a populist, There's no doubt about it.
He gets stuck into lizards and blind frogs and we
all like that. He's a bit non PC. Very entertaining.
What about Stuart Nash. He was on the show last
week basically auditioning for a role in the New Zealand
(02:00):
First Party are you going to give him a call?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, actually somebody who have paid that back to there
and I don't understand it to be an audition at all.
He was just giving you his frank views.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well what's the answer to my question though? Are you
going to give him a call?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
No, you've manufactured still met discussing with them and out
come and to think you're I'm going to support for it.
This is not my first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Where have I heard that before? But he plainly wants
to be in New Zealand first MP. Politically he sits
in the right slot for you guys, because I always
thought he was a bit far to the right for
the Labor Party, even though his great grandfather was a
Labor Prime minister. I think him and Shane Jones would
be a great one to two punch for New Zealand. First.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
No, Stuart's not part of the right. Stuart is a
very practical, grounded politician, like the old Labor Party was
when they got out there to build New Zealand and
build in perstruction, did all sorts of things and then
they went woke. In more recent times, set after Helen Clay,
they went totally work and they're not recognizable from what
(03:03):
they used to be. That's why Stuart's got no place.
It's call over the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well I'll take that as a yes. When is he
announcing his candidacy?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now there's two statements you're just made, not based on
what I said. But what do you want to say? Now? Look,
as I keep on saying in foreign affairs, please don't
listen to people who tell you what they want to happen.
Listen to people who think they know what might happen.
It's a big difference.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Talking about the Taxpayers Union, I talked about their poll.
They've come out with a league table for local body rates.
Now this is awful reading top ten cumulative rate increases
over the past three years has led by the West
Coast Regional Council at sixty five point five to seven
percent on an annual basis. The Cliffther District Council just
(03:49):
down the road from me, he's leading the charge at
sixteen and a half percent. Is the government right to
try and cap or kneecap these local bodies.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Us the governor's right. But when they make those statements,
they should be saying to themselves, but what was our
record where we shown the efficiency of public service delivery
and accountability for money. I can give you countless cases
of government waste. So but I've sent to some of
my colleagues before you preach to them and get your
own house and order or you know the old dictum
(04:21):
doctor heel thyself. You know, I'm talking about Wanganui wan
who's got to stand out record race rise, last race
rise two point two percent. That's what we need to
strive for. But then Womanhu hasn't gone out there and
put cycle ways everywhere, shut down, cars shut the city down,
like an Uben and Wellington. You see what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Oh well, I like our cycle way in Dunedin.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well you might like your Cyclewaydneda, but the needan's flat one's.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Lot and Dunedin's very much I don't know when the
last time you were here. Winston, it's very much like Wellington.
It's a harbor city. It's a hill city. But we
do have a wonderful cycle way around the harbor and
that is flat. Yeah I agree. Okay, look let's move
on from that. I want to talk about rates. Should
rates be or attax on wealth or should they actually
just be user pace? If you want to go to
(05:10):
the library or the swimming pool, you pay for it.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, there are combinations of what you're saying that are correct.
But I go back to two thousand and two. It's
a long way. I go and a guy called Shanda
a report on the local government and he made a
whole lot of recommendations. What he was saying was that
central governors loading local governor with all sorts of things
they're not in capable of doing and just passing on
to the rate bears. And because there's a wall between
(05:36):
the rate bears and the government and they can bring
the local governor, that's what they've done. We need to
properly reform all sectors of our government.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
A couple tore quickly finished on we're going to be
speaking to Bryce McKenzie, shortly co founder of Groundswell. He
wants us out of the Paris Agreement. Where does New
Zealand First sit as opposed to the Coalition, because the
Prime Minister said to me on Wednesday the Coalition was
totally supportive of us staying in the Paris Agreement. But
where does New Zealand First sit? And what are you
(06:06):
going to campaign on?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
We were the first ones that came out a long
time ago and said this, almost sixty percent of emissions
are coming out of China, India, Russia and the United States.
What we do is like a sneeze in the middle
of the night compared to the rest of them, and
nothing we can do can change that. So please, we said,
let's re examine what the Paris Accord was about. And
(06:28):
remember specifically it was to separate out from the accord
food growing or in primary production, in the sense that
we know that coming forward for the next thirty thirty
five years will need thirty to thirty five percent more food.
This is a critical area, but it was in general.
First has said let's re examine why we did this
(06:48):
in the first place, because I said, at the time
when the National Party went off with Paula Bennett two
Paris and sign up to the accord, they had no
idea of theore signing up to.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
So take that as a yes.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Of course, this is yes. I'm saying that we have
got to re examine and look at the matter and
say to New Zealanders and in fact all over the world, say,
how can we make a difference when China's emissions are
above thirty percent.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, I'm not arguing with you on that one. One
to finish on this is from me. I'm hot under
the collar about this one. Carbon farming, the folly of
carbon farming, blanket planting our productive farmland as is happening
out there as we speak, when we're getting record prices
for red meat as an example, surely we should be
growing food, not pine trees.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I agree with the entirely. But when you say
not pine trees, no, we should be growing native, long
term native trees. Pine tree forests are just a desert underfoot.
If you go into a pines forest, there's nothing there. Now,
we want native forest built, and we're in a bill
of we're in a plant of billionum native forest. Plus
we're actually preserving agricultural land. That's precisely our policy, and
(07:57):
thank you for supporting it.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Well, you've changed your tune a bit for twenty seventeen
when your henchman Shane was running around planting a billion
pine trees.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, no, we're was pining a billion trees, not just
pine trees. But got out of hand. There should have
been balanced there.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
So are you rewriting history here once? Then?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
No, I'm not rewriting history. I at the time was
Saya Shane. We need to be climbing those sorts of
trees and some of them will last three hundred and
four hundred years. But it's part of the cleaning up
of New Zealand's pollution. If I go to Scandinavia, I
can't see a waterway until I'm flying HERBD on a
helicopter or a plane. Why because they've got to feed
(08:34):
all down the sides of the banks of the rivers
and what have you. It's spectacular. And you know something,
they're way ahead of us in terms of all aspects
of the economy, and they're twice as rich as we are,
and maybe they've got some lessons to teach us. Meanwhile,
of course they are serious about agricultural production and but
when they talk about culture production. Here's a difference between
the National Party and others in New Zealand. First, we
(08:56):
want the added value to happen in New Zealand, not offshore.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Winston Peters, thanks for your time. Still there's a bit
of bark left in the old dog, isn't there. At
eighty years of age, going better than ever.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I don't know what you mean by that. I just
think nasty.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I mean, it wasn't nasty. It was just factual.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
If Final regulars say I will not use my complain
about my opponent's youth and inexperience, if they stopped talking
about my wisdom and.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Age, well, bless you. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Thank you,
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