November 17, 2024 • 9 mins
The founder of Climate Action Company and the co-chair of Future Farmers NZ has been at Cop 29 at Azerbaijan (Nov 11-22). He's also written a very good column for our website - Carbon Farming: Urgent ETS changes needed to protect productive farmland .
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Finn Ross is a very bright young man. Here's the
co chair of Future Farmer zen Z. He is the
founder of the climate's action company. Finn. Just before we
talk about what I think is a very good piece
you've written for our website and on the Herald about
carbon farming, you're dispack from COP twenty nine azer Baijan.
(00:21):
I'm always very cynical about these. I think they're talk
fests funded by a huge carbon footprint. Tell me something
useful has happened there or will happen there, because I
don't think it finishes until the twenty second of November.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're right, Yeah, there is a serious amount of bureocracy
going on over there. I think there's two things for
the agricultural community, and he's there on that I saw
to take note of. Firstly is the Article six Transactions,
which is what's being decided at this COP and the
Article six of the Paris Agreement, which is the carbon
market section. So when New Zealand and most other countries
fall short at twenty thirty of our Paris Commitment obligations,
(00:58):
we're obliged to buy of carbon credits. And these negotiations
that are going on at the moment set out how
we go about those carbon credit transactions, and I think
there's a real opportunity and therefore the food and fiber
sector in New Zealand to be potentially a net exporter
of carbon credits under Article six of the Parish Agreement.
So potentially a large income stream for sheep and beef
(01:19):
farmers in particular if New Zealand farmers are able to
access Article six transactions under the Paris Agreement. So that's
thing one, and then thing two. There was a lot
of conversations happening on methane emissions, and for the same
reason because methane is a short lived gas that a
lot of people in New Zealand are advocating for lower
reductions of methane. A lot of people in the international
(01:41):
community are advocating for more reduction of methane emissions because
it's a short lived gas and reducing methane emissions has
a really profound impact in the short run. So because
the global community is not lower lowering carbon emissions as much,
people are saying, well, methane could be a big one
in the short term. So just a couple of couple
(02:02):
of things that I think are important to the agricultural
community to take note of Zealand.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Can we plant our way out of climate change rather
than buy carbon credits?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
We certainly can't. We've got it. We've got to cut
of missions deeply. People are certainly trying to do that.
I think at the moment with carbon carbon farming, you know,
planning native forest regenerating, regenerating native forests and wetlands is
important to supplement it. But we've got to we've got
to do both. We've got a cutter missions and restore
our native ecosystems.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Look just before we get onto carbon farming, because it's
a subject I'm very interested in. Once again, Azerbaijan COP
twenty nine. Was it a talk fest? I know you're
saying there's some positives, but we're up to number twenty nine.
What have we actually achieved at all these talk fests?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You're right? I mean, I think a lot of the
global climate. You know, people who are pushing for climate
action are pretty skeptical of what's going on. It's hosted
by a big petro state as Jan oil fields everywhere
next to the airport, which was pretty pretty confronted. Look
that there's certainly some positives. You know, countries are making
some big pleasures like the UK did, and some of
the small island nations are getting some finance to help
(03:11):
with that aptation. So there's a couple of wins happening.
But you're right, you know, with the U S election
and a number of things happening around the globe at
the moment, it's difficult when you look at a lot
of bureaucracy going on there and not a lot of
real actions.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well look, look what's going to happen in the United
States with Trump's appointment of a blog for his energy minister,
who's an oil man, an oil baron, if he's from
the fracking fraternity.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You're right, it's a real challenge. And Antonio Gutiras, the
UN Secretary General, said that, you know, it's like losing
a limb globally for the climate fight. So we can
still do it, we can still tackle climate changes, but
it's just going to going to be a hell of
a lot harder now without the US.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Now, I want to refer to the column and I
largely agree with everything you've said in this one that's
in the Herald on our website the Country dot co
dot and said You're right, swathes of productive farm land
and continue to be transformed into what is shaping up
to be one of our nation's largest ecological disasters. A
devastating invasive species Pinus radiata is planted on mass and
(04:13):
monoculture plantations for carbon credits. Now you also talk about
wilding pines. I didn't realize that wilding pines were largely radiata.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
In a lot of cases they are. Yeah, art has
passed in the Mackenzie Country, also around Queenstown. There's a
real radiator wilding problem and a lot of parts around
New Zealand. But certainly carbon farming is contributing to more
wilding pines around New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You're also suggesting in your column that it's more profitable
not to harvest pine trees at the moment it is.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, Well, with low log prices and increasing ets prices,
it's more profitable to leave them in the ground, and
it's certainly more profitable than sheep and beef farming, and
a lot of areas to plant plant your land with
pine trees for carbon farming, which is which is a real,
real problem.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You're also right wilding pines are on track to cover
twenty percent of the country by twenty thirty. My goodness,
that's only six years away.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It's a horrific statistic and I think, you know, really
scary for New Zealand. And I mean, it's going to
be a problem in twenty thirty, but it's even going
to be more of a problem, you know, come twenty
to fifty when my generation and younger generations are left
with huge parts of New Zealand that are covered in
you know, unharvestable pine trees that were carbon farming, and
also massive areas of invasive pines. So it's a real challenge.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I thought the National Government was going to knock carbon
farming on the head. That's certainly what they promised.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well that's what they said, and that's what the Act
Party said, but they've done the opposite so far. The
only changes to the etes they've made to date have
been doing the opposite. And I think they've been a
bit handicapped by Shane Jones and New Zealand First, who
are very pro carbon farming. So yeah, I think we've
got to call National and Act out on this because
they did promise they were going to stop it, but
they've done the opposite so far.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
The National Marii Forestry Associated also oppose changes to the
ets around carbon farming because they've got forestry interests worth
more than sixteen billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Correct. Yeah, there's a huge financial opportunity on Mouldi land
around New Zealand for carbon farming, but for me, that
simply profit over the planet and the people. So yes,
they're going to make a lot of money in the
short term, but you know, long term it's going to
be devastating for communities and for the environment.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Finn Ross, you're doing a PhD on this, are you're
a bright young man? What's the solution?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think the solution is it should be illegal to
plant pine trees commercially in New Zealand unless there's a
harvest or a transition plan. So simply planting a pine
tree with no harvest plan, no no transition plan, or
no constraints on the wilding pine risk, I think is
too much of a burden on New Zealand. So certainly
I'm pro the commercial plantation industry in New Zealand, but
(06:54):
we need to increasingly hold those forests to account as well,
so we don't have land managed like a lot of
other forests that faced the impacts of cyclone Gabriel.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Your parents Jeff and Justine Ross, of course high profile
from their life at forty two below Vodka bought Lake
Harwa Station. I know that your base there, it was
the first farm to be certified carbon neutral officially in
this country. But I put it to you, Finn Ross,
that a lot of the extensive sheep and beef farms
(07:24):
in this country are already carbon neutral or positive.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I totally agree. And I guess what we've done as
a farm that was five years ago, now we had
that certification and now we've been working with a lot
of other farmers to get them certified as well. And
you know, for us, I guess it's been about telling
our story. We've had real success and telling that carbon
zero story internationally through getting premiums for our will. And
you know, we're keen to share our learnings, you know,
(07:50):
both our successes and failures with other farmers so that
they can you know, I guess we've got some learnings
around marketing and branding that we can share, and we've
certainly got a lot to learn on you know, a
lot of other parts of farming the high country, So
we've been sort of you know, we've had a really
good exchange of knowledge I think with our community, and
there's certainly opportunities for a lot of sheep and beef
farmers to I guess increase the branding around that. We've
(08:13):
got New Zealand around already being climate positive in a
lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Do you think we'll ever get to the stage where
farmers can get carbon credits for soil or the soil
on their farm.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's a good question. The answer is maybe. I've been
thinking about that question a lot. Australia is obviously issuing
large quantities of soil carbon already, but they've got largely big,
monotonous ecosystems. We've got big changes in elevation and rainfall
over short, short areas, and we've also got a lot
of soils which are already super saturated in carbon or
(08:44):
already full of carbon. So it's a challenge in New
Zealand because we don't have the same scale of opportunity
that other countries like the States and the US does.
But I think in some cases, yes, there could be
an opportunity in the future to turn soil carbon credits.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Finn Ross, co chair of future farmers, also from the
Climate Action Company. You've written a piece and I think
it's very good. Actually, it's on our website, The Country,
dot co dot NZ and New Zealand Herald. Get his
thoughts on that. Finn will keep in touch. Enjoy the
rest of your day at Lake Hawei Station.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Thanks Jamie much appreciate it.
Finn Ross is a very bright young man. Here's the
co chair of Future Farmer zen Z. He is the
founder of the climate's action company. Finn. Just before we
talk about what I think is a very good piece
you've written for our website and on the Herald about
carbon farming, you're dispack from COP twenty nine azer Baijan.
(00:21):
I'm always very cynical about these. I think they're talk
fests funded by a huge carbon footprint. Tell me something
useful has happened there or will happen there, because I
don't think it finishes until the twenty second of November.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
You're right, Yeah, there is a serious amount of bureocracy
going on over there. I think there's two things for
the agricultural community, and he's there on that I saw
to take note of. Firstly is the Article six Transactions,
which is what's being decided at this COP and the
Article six of the Paris Agreement, which is the carbon
market section. So when New Zealand and most other countries
fall short at twenty thirty of our Paris Commitment obligations,
(00:58):
we're obliged to buy of carbon credits. And these negotiations
that are going on at the moment set out how
we go about those carbon credit transactions, and I think
there's a real opportunity and therefore the food and fiber
sector in New Zealand to be potentially a net exporter
of carbon credits under Article six of the Parish Agreement.
So potentially a large income stream for sheep and beef
(01:19):
farmers in particular if New Zealand farmers are able to
access Article six transactions under the Paris Agreement. So that's
thing one, and then thing two. There was a lot
of conversations happening on methane emissions, and for the same
reason because methane is a short lived gas that a
lot of people in New Zealand are advocating for lower
reductions of methane. A lot of people in the international
(01:41):
community are advocating for more reduction of methane emissions because
it's a short lived gas and reducing methane emissions has
a really profound impact in the short run. So because
the global community is not lower lowering carbon emissions as much,
people are saying, well, methane could be a big one
in the short term. So just a couple of couple
(02:02):
of things that I think are important to the agricultural
community to take note of Zealand.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Can we plant our way out of climate change rather
than buy carbon credits?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
We certainly can't. We've got it. We've got to cut
of missions deeply. People are certainly trying to do that.
I think at the moment with carbon carbon farming, you know,
planning native forest regenerating, regenerating native forests and wetlands is
important to supplement it. But we've got to we've got
to do both. We've got a cutter missions and restore
our native ecosystems.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Look just before we get onto carbon farming, because it's
a subject I'm very interested in. Once again, Azerbaijan COP
twenty nine. Was it a talk fest? I know you're
saying there's some positives, but we're up to number twenty nine.
What have we actually achieved at all these talk fests?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You're right? I mean, I think a lot of the
global climate. You know, people who are pushing for climate
action are pretty skeptical of what's going on. It's hosted
by a big petro state as Jan oil fields everywhere
next to the airport, which was pretty pretty confronted. Look
that there's certainly some positives. You know, countries are making
some big pleasures like the UK did, and some of
the small island nations are getting some finance to help
(03:11):
with that aptation. So there's a couple of wins happening.
But you're right, you know, with the U S election
and a number of things happening around the globe at
the moment, it's difficult when you look at a lot
of bureaucracy going on there and not a lot of
real actions.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well look, look what's going to happen in the United
States with Trump's appointment of a blog for his energy minister,
who's an oil man, an oil baron, if he's from
the fracking fraternity.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You're right, it's a real challenge. And Antonio Gutiras, the
UN Secretary General, said that, you know, it's like losing
a limb globally for the climate fight. So we can
still do it, we can still tackle climate changes, but
it's just going to going to be a hell of
a lot harder now without the US.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Now, I want to refer to the column and I
largely agree with everything you've said in this one that's
in the Herald on our website the Country dot co
dot and said You're right, swathes of productive farm land
and continue to be transformed into what is shaping up
to be one of our nation's largest ecological disasters. A
devastating invasive species Pinus radiata is planted on mass and
(04:13):
monoculture plantations for carbon credits. Now you also talk about
wilding pines. I didn't realize that wilding pines were largely radiata.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
In a lot of cases they are. Yeah, art has
passed in the Mackenzie Country, also around Queenstown. There's a
real radiator wilding problem and a lot of parts around
New Zealand. But certainly carbon farming is contributing to more
wilding pines around New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You're also suggesting in your column that it's more profitable
not to harvest pine trees at the moment it is.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, Well, with low log prices and increasing ets prices,
it's more profitable to leave them in the ground, and
it's certainly more profitable than sheep and beef farming, and
a lot of areas to plant plant your land with
pine trees for carbon farming, which is which is a real,
real problem.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
You're also right wilding pines are on track to cover
twenty percent of the country by twenty thirty. My goodness,
that's only six years away.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It's a horrific statistic and I think, you know, really
scary for New Zealand. And I mean, it's going to
be a problem in twenty thirty, but it's even going
to be more of a problem, you know, come twenty
to fifty when my generation and younger generations are left
with huge parts of New Zealand that are covered in
you know, unharvestable pine trees that were carbon farming, and
also massive areas of invasive pines. So it's a real challenge.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
I thought the National Government was going to knock carbon
farming on the head. That's certainly what they promised.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well that's what they said, and that's what the Act
Party said, but they've done the opposite so far. The
only changes to the etes they've made to date have
been doing the opposite. And I think they've been a
bit handicapped by Shane Jones and New Zealand First, who
are very pro carbon farming. So yeah, I think we've
got to call National and Act out on this because
they did promise they were going to stop it, but
they've done the opposite so far.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
The National Marii Forestry Associated also oppose changes to the
ets around carbon farming because they've got forestry interests worth
more than sixteen billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Correct. Yeah, there's a huge financial opportunity on Mouldi land
around New Zealand for carbon farming, but for me, that
simply profit over the planet and the people. So yes,
they're going to make a lot of money in the
short term, but you know, long term it's going to
be devastating for communities and for the environment.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Finn Ross, you're doing a PhD on this, are you're
a bright young man? What's the solution?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think the solution is it should be illegal to
plant pine trees commercially in New Zealand unless there's a
harvest or a transition plan. So simply planting a pine
tree with no harvest plan, no no transition plan, or
no constraints on the wilding pine risk, I think is
too much of a burden on New Zealand. So certainly
I'm pro the commercial plantation industry in New Zealand, but
(06:54):
we need to increasingly hold those forests to account as well,
so we don't have land managed like a lot of
other forests that faced the impacts of cyclone Gabriel.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Your parents Jeff and Justine Ross, of course high profile
from their life at forty two below Vodka bought Lake
Harwa Station. I know that your base there, it was
the first farm to be certified carbon neutral officially in
this country. But I put it to you, Finn Ross,
that a lot of the extensive sheep and beef farms
(07:24):
in this country are already carbon neutral or positive.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I totally agree. And I guess what we've done as
a farm that was five years ago, now we had
that certification and now we've been working with a lot
of other farmers to get them certified as well. And
you know, for us, I guess it's been about telling
our story. We've had real success and telling that carbon
zero story internationally through getting premiums for our will. And
you know, we're keen to share our learnings, you know,
(07:50):
both our successes and failures with other farmers so that
they can you know, I guess we've got some learnings
around marketing and branding that we can share, and we've
certainly got a lot to learn on you know, a
lot of other parts of farming the high country, So
we've been sort of you know, we've had a really
good exchange of knowledge I think with our community, and
there's certainly opportunities for a lot of sheep and beef
farmers to I guess increase the branding around that. We've
(08:13):
got New Zealand around already being climate positive in a
lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Do you think we'll ever get to the stage where
farmers can get carbon credits for soil or the soil
on their farm.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's a good question. The answer is maybe. I've been
thinking about that question a lot. Australia is obviously issuing
large quantities of soil carbon already, but they've got largely big,
monotonous ecosystems. We've got big changes in elevation and rainfall
over short, short areas, and we've also got a lot
of soils which are already super saturated in carbon or
(08:44):
already full of carbon. So it's a challenge in New
Zealand because we don't have the same scale of opportunity
that other countries like the States and the US does.
But I think in some cases, yes, there could be
an opportunity in the future to turn soil carbon credits.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Finn Ross, co chair of future farmers, also from the
Climate Action Company. You've written a piece and I think
it's very good. Actually, it's on our website, The Country,
dot co dot NZ and New Zealand Herald. Get his
thoughts on that. Finn will keep in touch. Enjoy the
rest of your day at Lake Hawei Station.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Thanks Jamie much appreciate it.
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