August 18, 2025 • 8 mins
The former Minister of Agriculture and Trade comments on a “useless Government”. But which one is he talking about? Plus, we look at an FTA with India, the live export ban repeal being stuck in Cabinet limbo, and whether his former Labour government is in denial over the Covid spend up.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Damian O'Connor was the Minister of Agriculture and Trade in
the Dan Hipkins government twenty seventeen to twenty twenty three. Damien,
we've spoken to Stephen Fleming already on the show about
getting our sheep meat into India and how much a
free trade agreement would help. Were you guilty of dropping
(00:21):
the ball on a free trade agreement with India? You
were only luke warm on it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Cure it, Jamie, No, it wasn't luke warm. I was
just honest and I said we'd have to build relationshipships
and it would take time, and clearly the issue was there.
We could have a free trade agreement, I guess focused
on a few key areas, and one of them would
be sheep meat, no doubt, But in other areas it's
quite tricky, and I guess that's what the government's working
(00:46):
through now. The Prime Minister or the leader of the
opposition at the time, promised us an agreement within three years.
Let's wait and see. You know. I hope we do
get one and as soon as possible. But the realities
of the India democ and the economyne over there, I mean,
you know, it's a big challenge, but of course we
would like one.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Before we start arguing, I do respect your background and trade,
why don't we just do an agreement within there and
just forget about dairy. Say, look, okay, we understand why
you don't want to go there, but let's do something
on sheep meat, Let's do something on Keywi fruit, horticulture, whatever.
Let's be like the Aussies.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well we'll ask Kimberly Crude or any other dairy industry
people what they think about that, you know, And I
guess if they endorse it and said, look, it's fine
by us, then I guess that might give the government
an easier pathway to sign something off. But I'm guessing
as our single biggest export sector, we probably need to
ensure that we have opportunities for it, especially when we
(01:43):
sign up with a trade agreement with you know, arguably
the strongest growing economy in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, what is the strongest growing economy in the world.
Stephen Fleming told me that, and I believe flem on
that one. They're also Damian O'Connor going to be the
world's third biggest economy by the year twenty thirty. There
is almost unlimited potential if we can just get our
foot in the door.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, yes, I'm in China and labor government signed the
free trade agreement and upgraded it. With China, it's you know,
second biggest economy, and you know we've seen that that
is incredibly valuable. But it goes through its ups and
downs as well. And so yes, we need one with India.
Yes we need to continue trading with the US and
all other economies across the globe. Debt, but you know,
(02:28):
there are challenges at a time of global uncertainty. If
we can get the India one over the line, that'll
be great.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We're going to be speaking to Todd McLay on Thursday's show.
He's going to be in Washington, d C. Is he
wasting his time?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, it's good that he's got over there, and it's
good that he will try. I can't you know, predictor
or even second guess what will come from Washington day
by day. I think that's the challenge that the most
of the global economy faces. You know, I'm sure he
will do his best to try and you know, ensure
(03:03):
that our interests are protected. But you know it was
a little slow early on, you know, Donald Trump indicated
this from day one. We're just we're not as badly
offered some countries around the world, but we're still at
a slight disadvantage to Australia, and I guess that's one
of the issues we should focus on.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I was reading a report online this morning saying the
live export ban, the repeal of it. Of course you
introduced the live export ban is stuck in cabinet Limbo.
Is this proving a bridge too far for the government.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I'm hoping that there might be enough sensible people
in cabinet and it probably comes down to one or
two of them who you think this is just a
crazy move and it's not worth the effort at a
time when the industry, you know that the number of
ships in the industry cross the globe is shrinking. People
don't like it. And indeed, you know our future is
in is in breeding and growing and processing and sending
(03:59):
food from New Zealand. You know, the small number of
animals that have been exported. It's huge risk to our
reputation along with the animal welfare and other human aspects.
It's just not worth it.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But we're going broke as a country thanks to your government,
so and this is worth hang on, this is worth
half one.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
No, no, no, hold on, hold on, that's you. You're
you know, swallowing all the rhetoric and the ramble that
you're hearing from this current government. Would everyone who received
a wage substy please hand it back? You know, that
might be the wasteful, so called wasteful spend that we've
been accused of. We spent billions of dollars to keep
our economy going, to keep people in work and to
(04:39):
keep people safe. And it's all very well in hindsight
to say, oh, it was wasteful spend. Look, this government
doesn't have an economic plan. All they can do is
is point back to us and say it's their fault.
It's their fault. You know, let's see what their plan is.
And it's been completely absent.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Okay, well we'll look, Damien. I'm going to give you
some credit up to the election of twenty twenty and
the country was with you. You got the first outright
majority under AMMP. But from there on in it was
a disaster. You got literally everything wrong. Because a total disaster.
The economy is cooked.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, we had a Ukraine War, we had post COVID inflation,
and a lot of those additional costs flow through to
our economy, making it really hard. In a post COVID situation,
we were covering from tourism. There was a whole lot of
things that were adversely affected. We accepted that, but you know,
this government has just throttled the economy, slowed it down,
(05:36):
you know, just beyond recession, the one that they caused,
and there's no plan for where we're going, and so
you know, focus on them at the moment. It's all
very well going trying and to blame us. You know,
let's look forward. Let ask the government what's their plan.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Is everyone from the dan Hipkins government in denial.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Not in denial at all. The fact that Grant Robertson
is about what it?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
What about your COVID spend up?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well? What what? What? Would The opposition of the day
was asking us to spend more on wage subsidies, more
to help industry and business. They were the ones asking
for more. We spent what we thought was necessary to
protect people's lives, to protect jobs through wage subsidies, to
protect you know, individual businesses. We did that and yes
(06:26):
it was a lot of money, but you know, I
can't identify areas.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Amen, you did that well on spending. You did that
well on spending and encouraging the economy that you ended
up with an outburst and the price of housing went
through the roof.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't think it was cause because of that. I
think we were trying to build as many as we could.
This government once again has just made that worse by
chasing thousands and thousands of chippies offshore. You know that's
as crazy we are still now, look at what's happened now,
don't try and blame it all.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Let's just finish on. Chippy's the one who's in charge
of you at the moment. Did he make a mistake?
Was it a tactical error not fronting up to the
COVID inquiry? I understand why. To be fair, I'm not
even being fair because I think they should front up
as well. But just cinder Ardur and Grant Robertson are
no longer in public office or in public life. I
guess they're free to do what they want. But Chippy
(07:23):
and Asheveral should have fronted up.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
No, they shouldn't have. They answered all the questions that
will ask of them by this second Royal Commission, one
that arguably doesn't really know what it's up to. Because
the first commission has covered all the issues and given recommendations.
This second one is a bit of a showcase and
it's been demanded by New Zealand first and they want
(07:49):
to release the report in the hope that they can
continue on with the narrative that everything was to blame
for the last Labor government and COVID and that's a
ridiculous situation. Time has moved on. Time for the government
and its coalition partners to move on and tell us
what they are going to do, rather than worry about
you know what, you know what might have been. They
(08:12):
all my colleagues fronted have answered all the questions that
the Royal Commission has asked. There was no need for
them to go up and have some kind of you know,
public hanging.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And here was I thinking it was your fault. Damien
proved me wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, well it might take some time, but maybe you'll
come you'll come around, Jamie, but you know I'm not
going to hold my breath on that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Good on you, Damian O'Connor, former Agriculture and Trade Minister
Damian O'Connor was the Minister of Agriculture and Trade in
the Dan Hipkins government twenty seventeen to twenty twenty three. Damien,
we've spoken to Stephen Fleming already on the show about
getting our sheep meat into India and how much a
free trade agreement would help. Were you guilty of dropping
(00:21):
the ball on a free trade agreement with India? You
were only luke warm on it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Cure it, Jamie, No, it wasn't luke warm. I was
just honest and I said we'd have to build relationshipships
and it would take time, and clearly the issue was there.
We could have a free trade agreement, I guess focused
on a few key areas, and one of them would
be sheep meat, no doubt, But in other areas it's
quite tricky, and I guess that's what the government's working
(00:46):
through now. The Prime Minister or the leader of the
opposition at the time, promised us an agreement within three years.
Let's wait and see. You know. I hope we do
get one and as soon as possible. But the realities
of the India democ and the economyne over there, I mean,
you know, it's a big challenge, but of course we
would like one.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Before we start arguing, I do respect your background and trade,
why don't we just do an agreement within there and
just forget about dairy. Say, look, okay, we understand why
you don't want to go there, but let's do something
on sheep meat, Let's do something on Keywi fruit, horticulture, whatever.
Let's be like the Aussies.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well we'll ask Kimberly Crude or any other dairy industry
people what they think about that, you know, And I
guess if they endorse it and said, look, it's fine
by us, then I guess that might give the government
an easier pathway to sign something off. But I'm guessing
as our single biggest export sector, we probably need to
ensure that we have opportunities for it, especially when we
(01:43):
sign up with a trade agreement with you know, arguably
the strongest growing economy in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Well, what is the strongest growing economy in the world.
Stephen Fleming told me that, and I believe flem on
that one. They're also Damian O'Connor going to be the
world's third biggest economy by the year twenty thirty. There
is almost unlimited potential if we can just get our
foot in the door.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, yes, I'm in China and labor government signed the
free trade agreement and upgraded it. With China, it's you know,
second biggest economy, and you know we've seen that that
is incredibly valuable. But it goes through its ups and
downs as well. And so yes, we need one with India.
Yes we need to continue trading with the US and
all other economies across the globe. Debt, but you know,
(02:28):
there are challenges at a time of global uncertainty. If
we can get the India one over the line, that'll
be great.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We're going to be speaking to Todd McLay on Thursday's show.
He's going to be in Washington, d C. Is he
wasting his time?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, it's good that he's got over there, and it's
good that he will try. I can't you know, predictor
or even second guess what will come from Washington day
by day. I think that's the challenge that the most
of the global economy faces. You know, I'm sure he
will do his best to try and you know, ensure
(03:03):
that our interests are protected. But you know it was
a little slow early on, you know, Donald Trump indicated
this from day one. We're just we're not as badly
offered some countries around the world, but we're still at
a slight disadvantage to Australia, and I guess that's one
of the issues we should focus on.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I was reading a report online this morning saying the
live export ban, the repeal of it. Of course you
introduced the live export ban is stuck in cabinet Limbo.
Is this proving a bridge too far for the government.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I'm hoping that there might be enough sensible people
in cabinet and it probably comes down to one or
two of them who you think this is just a
crazy move and it's not worth the effort at a
time when the industry, you know that the number of
ships in the industry cross the globe is shrinking. People
don't like it. And indeed, you know our future is
in is in breeding and growing and processing and sending
(03:59):
food from New Zealand. You know, the small number of
animals that have been exported. It's huge risk to our
reputation along with the animal welfare and other human aspects.
It's just not worth it.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But we're going broke as a country thanks to your government,
so and this is worth hang on, this is worth
half one.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
No, no, no, hold on, hold on, that's you. You're
you know, swallowing all the rhetoric and the ramble that
you're hearing from this current government. Would everyone who received
a wage substy please hand it back? You know, that
might be the wasteful, so called wasteful spend that we've
been accused of. We spent billions of dollars to keep
our economy going, to keep people in work and to
(04:39):
keep people safe. And it's all very well in hindsight
to say, oh, it was wasteful spend. Look, this government
doesn't have an economic plan. All they can do is
is point back to us and say it's their fault.
It's their fault. You know, let's see what their plan is.
And it's been completely absent.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Okay, well we'll look, Damien. I'm going to give you
some credit up to the election of twenty twenty and
the country was with you. You got the first outright
majority under AMMP. But from there on in it was
a disaster. You got literally everything wrong. Because a total disaster.
The economy is cooked.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, we had a Ukraine War, we had post COVID inflation,
and a lot of those additional costs flow through to
our economy, making it really hard. In a post COVID situation,
we were covering from tourism. There was a whole lot of
things that were adversely affected. We accepted that, but you know,
this government has just throttled the economy, slowed it down,
(05:36):
you know, just beyond recession, the one that they caused,
and there's no plan for where we're going, and so
you know, focus on them at the moment. It's all
very well going trying and to blame us. You know,
let's look forward. Let ask the government what's their plan.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Is everyone from the dan Hipkins government in denial.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Not in denial at all. The fact that Grant Robertson
is about what it?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
What about your COVID spend up?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well? What what? What? Would The opposition of the day
was asking us to spend more on wage subsidies, more
to help industry and business. They were the ones asking
for more. We spent what we thought was necessary to
protect people's lives, to protect jobs through wage subsidies, to
protect you know, individual businesses. We did that and yes
(06:26):
it was a lot of money, but you know, I
can't identify areas.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Amen, you did that well on spending. You did that
well on spending and encouraging the economy that you ended
up with an outburst and the price of housing went
through the roof.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't think it was cause because of that. I
think we were trying to build as many as we could.
This government once again has just made that worse by
chasing thousands and thousands of chippies offshore. You know that's
as crazy we are still now, look at what's happened now,
don't try and blame it all.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Let's just finish on. Chippy's the one who's in charge
of you at the moment. Did he make a mistake?
Was it a tactical error not fronting up to the
COVID inquiry? I understand why. To be fair, I'm not
even being fair because I think they should front up
as well. But just cinder Ardur and Grant Robertson are
no longer in public office or in public life. I
guess they're free to do what they want. But Chippy
(07:23):
and Asheveral should have fronted up.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
No, they shouldn't have. They answered all the questions that
will ask of them by this second Royal Commission, one
that arguably doesn't really know what it's up to. Because
the first commission has covered all the issues and given recommendations.
This second one is a bit of a showcase and
it's been demanded by New Zealand first and they want
(07:49):
to release the report in the hope that they can
continue on with the narrative that everything was to blame
for the last Labor government and COVID and that's a
ridiculous situation. Time has moved on. Time for the government
and its coalition partners to move on and tell us
what they are going to do, rather than worry about
you know what, you know what might have been. They
(08:12):
all my colleagues fronted have answered all the questions that
the Royal Commission has asked. There was no need for
them to go up and have some kind of you know,
public hanging.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
And here was I thinking it was your fault. Damien
proved me wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, well it might take some time, but maybe you'll
come you'll come around, Jamie, but you know I'm not
going to hold my breath on that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Good on you, Damian O'Connor, former Agriculture and Trade Minister
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