August 18, 2025 • 9 mins
We catch up with a Kiwi cricketing legend to talk about getting NZ sheep meat into India and how beneficial an FTA would be with the world’s (soon-to-be) third largest economy and world’s fastest growing economy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
That is a small world. A friend of a friend
of a friend had dinner with this bloke in Vietnam,
I think, and said he was a bit of a
listener to the country, well known key week cricketer legend
in fact, Steven Fleming and Steven, can I call you
Canterbury farmer as well?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
No, No, that would be fou to lose. But thank you, Jamie.
You're nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Well, you have got a vested interest in agriculture. You're
involved with, amongst others, Brenda McCullum, Daniel Vittori, Jeff Eller,
who I've spoken to before on this show. Sir Richard Hadley,
you guys are trying to get New Zealand sheep meats
into India and like the rest of us, you're waiting
with baited breath for an FTA.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
What chance, Well, I think more chance than before. I
think this government Tom McClay has done a good job.
I've been over to India a number of times and
one of the key things with India is creating relationships
and they have to be bone deep rather than skin
deep in creating those. And I think they're making some
pretty good progress. There's some great synergy between the two
(01:01):
countries that go way back. Sirmund Hillary is held in
such high esteem and Sir Richard Hadley. So look, getting
the products into India is a bit of a challenge,
but once they're they're selling them with the New Zealand
names is quite easy.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So currently we've got something I think, correct me if
I'm wrong, a thirty percent tariff on sheep meat the
Aussies get. There's an without one. That's a huge stumbling
block for us.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, it is. And if you look at the history
of our company, we've been operating in India for twelve
years and in twenty twenty three we had eighty six
percent of land meat into India was ours, so that's
a really dominant position and that was growing as well
as the hotels. The five star hotels were growing throughout India.
Twelve months later we're down to sixty eight so it's
(01:44):
saw a really strong position. But the drop has been
because the Australian market is now operating with a thirty
three percent left and less tariff going into the country,
and that's a hard one to compete with. We have
a great relationship with Alliance and had some tough times
but they've been a great partner. They've bought into the
vision of what India could become. But it's just become
(02:06):
very hard to compete with that type of that type
of tariff and discount that we're having to put in
to stay competitive. We're still in there, but it's creating
some challenges. So we're hopeful of something some news from
FTA news coming soon.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Your company is Quality d Z. As you mentioned, you've
got a star studded stable a cricketers in there. You've
also got I think some all blacks who are silent partners.
But when it comes to pulling power in India, the
all blacks wouldn't have much compared to the like see yourself,
Brendan McCullum, Daniel Vittori.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, we've got them on this one. There's no doubt
that in there we will dominate. But having all blacks
as shareholders, you don't want to mess around with them,
so you've got to make sure we get a return
for them. Otherwise they've got a bit more muscle than
US cricketers, so it could being an interesting board discussion
or a shareholder's conference. If we don't do the business.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
India will become the third big economy in the world,
obviously behind the US and China, and five years by
twenty thirty. These are the numbers I've got Stephen from Wikipedia.
They can't possibly be wrong. One hundred and forty million
middle class households are twenty one million high income households.
The potential is almost limitless if we can get our
(03:20):
stuff in there at a fair rate.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, it actually scary. And the other one is the
fastest growing major economy, so they are six to seven
percent growth, which is phenomenal, and it's very self sufficient.
If you look at almost their population, they have sixty
percent of the population under thirty five, so very young.
And the education system is worth noting because it's so
(03:45):
strong through India that they've now got this real drive,
some of it Western is education coming back and with
a huge workforce, the country's just flying. So I know
there are companies New Zealand companies just waiting for the FTA,
and what we want to do with our supply chain,
which we control, is to become that gateway to India,
because when you look at those numbers, it's just mouthwatering
(04:08):
what some of our products could do.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
What initially stirred your interest about getting New Zealand sheep
meat into India because I know when you finished with
the Black Caps you went to the IPL without being
unkind Steven, you've probably made more money in your life
than you can spend. You don't necessarily need to do this.
What was the motivation?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, the rupee is not what it used to be,
Jamie Say's still a bit of work to be done,
but I appreciate the point. I think it's actually the
relationship with India and j Feller and a friend of us.
You them, We're a big driver of that. They saw
an opportunity, but we actually weren't sure what it was
going to be. So it was twelve months of due
diligence where it was water, where it was other products.
(04:50):
But lamb meat came through, sheep meat came through loud
and clear, and so we just formed some relationships and
gave it a crack and the growth rate was fantastic.
We had to plant a friend gift then in Bangalore
in market to do some work, and we just started
creating relationships and I think that's what the IPL has done.
When you tour in India, its for weeks or a
(05:12):
month a couple of months of the time with the
IPL year upon year, you get to know people, you
get to form relationships, and you start understanding the country.
And once you start understanding it, it's the biggest thing
speaking country in the world, which people don't realize. So
it's a lot easier to make those connections and form
those relationships, both personal and business, and you just start
(05:33):
to realize that with New Zealand's good name and the
scope and the energy of India, and as Prime Minister
Mody said, turning the red tape into red carpet, it
was just too good to refuse or not to look at.
So it hasn't been easy. There's been a huge amount
of work, I reckon I've met over two three hundred
chiefs during the during my time in the IPL, so
(05:54):
the old time on the running machine had to go
up because they just love it. They love our product
and they love anything the New Zealand on it. So
it's a really nice but it's a good centergy. It's
a great way for former sportsmen like myself and Brandon
to learn other aspects around business and also create a
good story for New Zealand, which is I guess part
of the ear of wanting to do well in business.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You have got a life sentence block or a lifestyle
block outside of christ Church. Do you have a farming
or rural background.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
No, I don't, and I still don't. It's trial and error,
but it's great fun. It's a teen acre sort of
cannibary lifestyle block. I think at the moment three sheep,
five chickens, a couple of dogs and three kids. So
that's enough for me. In fact, that's too much for me.
Really need some outside help on that one. But good fun,
very good fun, and again good to learn some new
(06:44):
skills outside holding a cricket back.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, Stephen Fleming, I'm guessing if you've got ten acres
and only three sheep, you spend a bit of time
on the right on moa, do you well?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
As I was listening to you, Jamie, you got me
through a couple of acres those lones time shows. So no,
it's been enjoyable. Think it's around on a sunny day's
about two coronas, so that's a good way to measure it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Just on a lighter note to finish, Stephen Fleming, I
hear from my friend of a friend of a friend
that you are second only to the Briscoes lady. I
think a fellow Cantabrian as the longest standing brand ambassador.
Of course, she's been the Briscoes Lady forever. You have
celebrated twenty five years as the Fijitsu He'd Pumps brand ambassador.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
That's true, Jammie, That's true, and it actually very proud
of it. But yeah, that one of the goals that
we see was to try and catch Tammy who Temmy?
What was? She does a great job, but she seems
to be getting younger. She's the Benjamin Button of advertising.
She's getting younger every advert where I'm going the other way,
So I'm not sure I'm going to tick that goal off.
But no, it's been at great association.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
And finish on international cricket. How good is kin Williamson?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, I'm pausing because I about say he's one of
the best, if not the best, And wow, it's rarefied
here and great here to have for he'sander speaking like that,
but I know him well and I just love him.
I think he is a magnificent person. But he has
just been so good for so long. And what New
(08:16):
Zealand cricket needs is excellent. Sir Richard Hadley was our
greatest player, but now in the last of five six
seventeen years, we've produced some of the best and he
is right up there. I've heard discussions about him being
better than Sir Richard. You don't deserve to have that chat.
It's just great to have these young guys and Williamson
leading a new era of outstanding players. So I'm really
(08:39):
proud of them. I think Creek is in great shape
and they've certainly taken the game forward since my time
and creating a new level of success which is to
be celebrated by all.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I know you were a keen rugby player in
your youth. And saying Kin Williamson is better than Sir
Richard Hadley's a bit like saying Richie mccaur and Dan
Carter are greater than Colin Meads. You can't say it,
can you?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
No, you can't. You got to celebrate them both, and
the fact we're even discussing it is brilliant. I think
it's Sir Richard was hands down that the best player
we had during that era and came Williamson. Is that
for us, But we have people just behind and to
some of all parts, isn't it when you think about
the Bolts and the Southeast and the Wagoners and that
era of bowling and some of the batting coming through now.
(09:22):
It's a pleasure to watch Stephen Fleming.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's been a pleasure to chat to you on the country.
Don't be a stranger. Good luck getting your lamb into
India when we finally cracked that FTA fingers crossed.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Jamie, good to talk to you. Thanks buddy.
That is a small world. A friend of a friend
of a friend had dinner with this bloke in Vietnam,
I think, and said he was a bit of a
listener to the country, well known key week cricketer legend
in fact, Steven Fleming and Steven, can I call you
Canterbury farmer as well?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
No, No, that would be fou to lose. But thank you, Jamie.
You're nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Well, you have got a vested interest in agriculture. You're
involved with, amongst others, Brenda McCullum, Daniel Vittori, Jeff Eller,
who I've spoken to before on this show. Sir Richard Hadley,
you guys are trying to get New Zealand sheep meats
into India and like the rest of us, you're waiting
with baited breath for an FTA.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
What chance, Well, I think more chance than before. I
think this government Tom McClay has done a good job.
I've been over to India a number of times and
one of the key things with India is creating relationships
and they have to be bone deep rather than skin
deep in creating those. And I think they're making some
pretty good progress. There's some great synergy between the two
(01:01):
countries that go way back. Sirmund Hillary is held in
such high esteem and Sir Richard Hadley. So look, getting
the products into India is a bit of a challenge,
but once they're they're selling them with the New Zealand
names is quite easy.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So currently we've got something I think, correct me if
I'm wrong, a thirty percent tariff on sheep meat the
Aussies get. There's an without one. That's a huge stumbling
block for us.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, it is. And if you look at the history
of our company, we've been operating in India for twelve
years and in twenty twenty three we had eighty six
percent of land meat into India was ours, so that's
a really dominant position and that was growing as well
as the hotels. The five star hotels were growing throughout India.
Twelve months later we're down to sixty eight so it's
(01:44):
saw a really strong position. But the drop has been
because the Australian market is now operating with a thirty
three percent left and less tariff going into the country,
and that's a hard one to compete with. We have
a great relationship with Alliance and had some tough times
but they've been a great partner. They've bought into the
vision of what India could become. But it's just become
(02:06):
very hard to compete with that type of that type
of tariff and discount that we're having to put in
to stay competitive. We're still in there, but it's creating
some challenges. So we're hopeful of something some news from
FTA news coming soon.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Your company is Quality d Z. As you mentioned, you've
got a star studded stable a cricketers in there. You've
also got I think some all blacks who are silent partners.
But when it comes to pulling power in India, the
all blacks wouldn't have much compared to the like see yourself,
Brendan McCullum, Daniel Vittori.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, we've got them on this one. There's no doubt
that in there we will dominate. But having all blacks
as shareholders, you don't want to mess around with them,
so you've got to make sure we get a return
for them. Otherwise they've got a bit more muscle than
US cricketers, so it could being an interesting board discussion
or a shareholder's conference. If we don't do the business.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
India will become the third big economy in the world,
obviously behind the US and China, and five years by
twenty thirty. These are the numbers I've got Stephen from Wikipedia.
They can't possibly be wrong. One hundred and forty million
middle class households are twenty one million high income households.
The potential is almost limitless if we can get our
(03:20):
stuff in there at a fair rate.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, it actually scary. And the other one is the
fastest growing major economy, so they are six to seven
percent growth, which is phenomenal, and it's very self sufficient.
If you look at almost their population, they have sixty
percent of the population under thirty five, so very young.
And the education system is worth noting because it's so
(03:45):
strong through India that they've now got this real drive,
some of it Western is education coming back and with
a huge workforce, the country's just flying. So I know
there are companies New Zealand companies just waiting for the FTA,
and what we want to do with our supply chain,
which we control, is to become that gateway to India,
because when you look at those numbers, it's just mouthwatering
(04:08):
what some of our products could do.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
What initially stirred your interest about getting New Zealand sheep
meat into India because I know when you finished with
the Black Caps you went to the IPL without being
unkind Steven, you've probably made more money in your life
than you can spend. You don't necessarily need to do this.
What was the motivation?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, the rupee is not what it used to be,
Jamie Say's still a bit of work to be done,
but I appreciate the point. I think it's actually the
relationship with India and j Feller and a friend of us.
You them, We're a big driver of that. They saw
an opportunity, but we actually weren't sure what it was
going to be. So it was twelve months of due
diligence where it was water, where it was other products.
(04:50):
But lamb meat came through, sheep meat came through loud
and clear, and so we just formed some relationships and
gave it a crack and the growth rate was fantastic.
We had to plant a friend gift then in Bangalore
in market to do some work, and we just started
creating relationships and I think that's what the IPL has done.
When you tour in India, its for weeks or a
(05:12):
month a couple of months of the time with the
IPL year upon year, you get to know people, you
get to form relationships, and you start understanding the country.
And once you start understanding it, it's the biggest thing
speaking country in the world, which people don't realize. So
it's a lot easier to make those connections and form
those relationships, both personal and business, and you just start
(05:33):
to realize that with New Zealand's good name and the
scope and the energy of India, and as Prime Minister
Mody said, turning the red tape into red carpet, it
was just too good to refuse or not to look at.
So it hasn't been easy. There's been a huge amount
of work, I reckon I've met over two three hundred
chiefs during the during my time in the IPL, so
(05:54):
the old time on the running machine had to go
up because they just love it. They love our product
and they love anything the New Zealand on it. So
it's a really nice but it's a good centergy. It's
a great way for former sportsmen like myself and Brandon
to learn other aspects around business and also create a
good story for New Zealand, which is I guess part
of the ear of wanting to do well in business.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You have got a life sentence block or a lifestyle
block outside of christ Church. Do you have a farming
or rural background.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
No, I don't, and I still don't. It's trial and error,
but it's great fun. It's a teen acre sort of
cannibary lifestyle block. I think at the moment three sheep,
five chickens, a couple of dogs and three kids. So
that's enough for me. In fact, that's too much for me.
Really need some outside help on that one. But good fun,
very good fun, and again good to learn some new
(06:44):
skills outside holding a cricket back.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well, Stephen Fleming, I'm guessing if you've got ten acres
and only three sheep, you spend a bit of time
on the right on moa, do you well?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
As I was listening to you, Jamie, you got me
through a couple of acres those lones time shows. So no,
it's been enjoyable. Think it's around on a sunny day's
about two coronas, so that's a good way to measure it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Just on a lighter note to finish, Stephen Fleming, I
hear from my friend of a friend of a friend
that you are second only to the Briscoes lady. I
think a fellow Cantabrian as the longest standing brand ambassador.
Of course, she's been the Briscoes Lady forever. You have
celebrated twenty five years as the Fijitsu He'd Pumps brand ambassador.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
That's true, Jammie, That's true, and it actually very proud
of it. But yeah, that one of the goals that
we see was to try and catch Tammy who Temmy?
What was? She does a great job, but she seems
to be getting younger. She's the Benjamin Button of advertising.
She's getting younger every advert where I'm going the other way,
So I'm not sure I'm going to tick that goal off.
But no, it's been at great association.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
And finish on international cricket. How good is kin Williamson?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, I'm pausing because I about say he's one of
the best, if not the best, And wow, it's rarefied
here and great here to have for he'sander speaking like that,
but I know him well and I just love him.
I think he is a magnificent person. But he has
just been so good for so long. And what New
(08:16):
Zealand cricket needs is excellent. Sir Richard Hadley was our
greatest player, but now in the last of five six
seventeen years, we've produced some of the best and he
is right up there. I've heard discussions about him being
better than Sir Richard. You don't deserve to have that chat.
It's just great to have these young guys and Williamson
leading a new era of outstanding players. So I'm really
(08:39):
proud of them. I think Creek is in great shape
and they've certainly taken the game forward since my time
and creating a new level of success which is to
be celebrated by all.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I know you were a keen rugby player in
your youth. And saying Kin Williamson is better than Sir
Richard Hadley's a bit like saying Richie mccaur and Dan
Carter are greater than Colin Meads. You can't say it,
can you?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
No, you can't. You got to celebrate them both, and
the fact we're even discussing it is brilliant. I think
it's Sir Richard was hands down that the best player
we had during that era and came Williamson. Is that
for us, But we have people just behind and to
some of all parts, isn't it when you think about
the Bolts and the Southeast and the Wagoners and that
era of bowling and some of the batting coming through now.
(09:22):
It's a pleasure to watch Stephen Fleming.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's been a pleasure to chat to you on the country.
Don't be a stranger. Good luck getting your lamb into
India when we finally cracked that FTA fingers crossed.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Jamie, good to talk to you. Thanks buddy.
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