May 20, 2025 • 6 mins
We ask the PM about tomorrow’s Budget, but more importantly, where’s the money’s coming from to balance the books? We talk Mystery Creek and whether dairy conversions will be the hot topic du jour? And why has carbon capture and storage (CCS) at Kapuni fallen over as an option to meet our 2030 emissions target?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the Country, the Prime Minister kicks off the
show Christopher Lux and I can see why Winston Peters
is so hard to win an argument against across the
cabinet table. He didn't take any nonsense from that clown
with the lanyard yesterday. Is it like that in Parliament?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
No? No, like Actually I really enjoy working with him.
He's got a lot of wisdom and he's been around
a long time, so he actually knows how work, which
is really great. But I thought that was, Yes, that
was a very interesting interlud, wasn't it yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well, you've got a busy life. You're juggling two balls,
once called Winston, the other one's called David.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, looking at this part of coalis and you know
our government and I think we've actually we're halfway through
the term. I think we've done a really good job
of doing something that's never been done before in his
own politics, getting three parties to work together to give strong,
stable government. And that's what we're doing. And you know,
we've inherit a hell of a mess and we're turning
it around with the economy is getting stronger, which is fantastic.
And now we're setting up obviously for the budget on
(00:55):
Thursday tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Okay, budgets tomorrow. What's seeing the old days I first
started out and broadcasting Prime Minister, I would ask the
Prime Minister of the day or the Minister of Agriculture
of the day, what's in the budget for farmers? These days?
Farmers don't want anything. They just don't want more red tape.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, well that's right, and that's why we've been cutting
back some very restrictive rules over the last eighty months.
We want much more flexible ability for farmers just to
crack on and get their things done and get their
job done. So but you know, again, what you're seeing
is our government that you know every day we've got
to wake up and actually to them, and we're getting
rid of red tape that's just regulation that's not adding
any value or any benefit to farmers, to growers, to
(01:36):
business people, and make sure it's easier for them to
actually invest in their business and grow up.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, Nikola, willis have like a big top hat and
will she be pulling rabbits out of it tomorrow to
get some money? Because I'm interested to see how you're
going to.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Do this well, it'll be revealed tomorrow. But you know,
we've got several things to do. One is to make
sure that we're investing in growth, and that means, you know,
we want businesses pumping, we want farmers pumping. You know,
we really want to be able to incentivize growth and
make sure that we get the country moving forward.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Mystery Creek's coming up less than a month now. I
reckon this is just my opinion, and I said this
to Heather last night on newstalks 'd be I think
dairy conversions could be the topic dejure of the Field Days.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, actually, I think I'm looking forward to Field Days.
I was speaking to the new director last night hanging over,
and I'm really quite excited about it. Actually, I've actually
been trying to encourage other leaders and agricultural ministers from
different countries that are visit to come down during field Days,
and I think going forward in the coming years will
make more of that to use it as a diplomatic
event as much as anything as well. But look, last
(02:44):
night I was with Halter, you know, and you think
about what they're doing to improve productivity, and you know,
just through using technology like das actually I spoke to
a number of farmers. I've visited a couple of those
farms where I've actually been able to add to their
herd because of more productive fan juice. And I think,
you know, more productively in some more flexibility of land
juice is kind of what's needed in order to get
(03:06):
more productivity and more return out of it.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So more cows, but not more conversions.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, ultimately, you know, if you think about the history
of the last one hundred and fifty years of how
land has moved from one purpose to another purpose, you know,
you think about going from sheep to beef, to dairy
to kiwi fruit.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
To pine trees.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, yeah, we'll stopping that obviously, But I mean the
bigger issue is sort of like, you know, you should
be able to flow where the biggest margin actually is,
and land should naturally sort of adapt to where where
that wants to get to. So, you know, we've got
to make sure that we get rid of the restrictions
and the dumb stuff and the red tape on that.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Now, I see Chloe Swarbrick had a crack at you
in the house, I think it was yesterday over this
critical part of the government's plan for cutting greenhouse scare
submissions over the next five years to meet our targets
by twenty thirty appears to have fallen over. And this
is all about carbon capture and storing it underground at Caperni.
(04:01):
It's just there's no margin on it for Todd. Will
you be giving them a backhand or in the budget?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No, I mean those are decisions obviously for Todd to
work out. Whether they can I can't make it work,
that's up to them. But I just say to you know,
other governments, other countries around the world are also you know,
using carbon captures as a way of managing the emissions
component of it. And we think it's got a lot
of legs as well, just like every other country. And
so you know, the bottom line is we've got a plan.
(04:28):
You know, our ERP one is on track, our ERP
two is on track, ERP three. It's a little bit
of work, but we know, you know, there's got a
lot of technologies and things that we have in facts
into our plans. You know, if you think about it,
Fonterra is paying farmers more for milk that's produced on
farms for the missions lower than I think twenty seventeen
or twenty eighteen baselines, and that hasn't been accounted for
in our plans. So look, yeah, there's swims roundabouts through
(04:50):
a plan obviously, but we're quite confident. I mean, you
know we we're on track for Netzera twenty fifty and
in fact, you know some of the full cars say
that we are, we're going to do that six years,
could do that up to six years earlier. So I
mean know our plans in place, and I appreciate close
for what's got a lot of different views of the world.
She definitely has de growth and defunding the police and
(05:11):
that's not something what for either.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And an inheritance tax, just like the Labor Party in
the UK and.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
In here it's okay, wealth text and exactly that that
would text.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That would destroy farming very quickly to finish on Sorry.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Jamie, that's exactly what Labor will do as well. Okay
all text and borrow more too.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Just like the Greens, what happens if we don't meet
that targets do as we said, or as I discussed
with her the last night, someone just gets a slap
over the risk with the wet bus ticket.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, look, I mean the only the target that we're
committed to is next zero twenty fifty and as.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I said, sorry, good step back of it. So if
we don't meet twenty thirty, nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well we're going to do We know that's a pre
stretching target, we're going to do everything we can to
try and hit it. But we're also not going to
send billions of dollars off shore. Let's be clear about that.
You know, we think the answers are on technology, not
through bankrupting farmers and sending billions off shit forsure.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Good luck with the rabbits and the hats tomorrow and
the budget talk you next week.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Thanks Jamie, you have a great week. See you
Wednesdays on the Country, the Prime Minister kicks off the
show Christopher Lux and I can see why Winston Peters
is so hard to win an argument against across the
cabinet table. He didn't take any nonsense from that clown
with the lanyard yesterday. Is it like that in Parliament?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
No? No, like Actually I really enjoy working with him.
He's got a lot of wisdom and he's been around
a long time, so he actually knows how work, which
is really great. But I thought that was, Yes, that
was a very interesting interlud, wasn't it yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Well, you've got a busy life. You're juggling two balls,
once called Winston, the other one's called David.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, looking at this part of coalis and you know
our government and I think we've actually we're halfway through
the term. I think we've done a really good job
of doing something that's never been done before in his
own politics, getting three parties to work together to give strong,
stable government. And that's what we're doing. And you know,
we've inherit a hell of a mess and we're turning
it around with the economy is getting stronger, which is fantastic.
And now we're setting up obviously for the budget on
(00:55):
Thursday tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Okay, budgets tomorrow. What's seeing the old days I first
started out and broadcasting Prime Minister, I would ask the
Prime Minister of the day or the Minister of Agriculture
of the day, what's in the budget for farmers? These days?
Farmers don't want anything. They just don't want more red tape.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, well that's right, and that's why we've been cutting
back some very restrictive rules over the last eighty months.
We want much more flexible ability for farmers just to
crack on and get their things done and get their
job done. So but you know, again, what you're seeing
is our government that you know every day we've got
to wake up and actually to them, and we're getting
rid of red tape that's just regulation that's not adding
any value or any benefit to farmers, to growers, to
(01:36):
business people, and make sure it's easier for them to
actually invest in their business and grow up.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, Nikola, willis have like a big top hat and
will she be pulling rabbits out of it tomorrow to
get some money? Because I'm interested to see how you're
going to.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Do this well, it'll be revealed tomorrow. But you know,
we've got several things to do. One is to make
sure that we're investing in growth, and that means, you know,
we want businesses pumping, we want farmers pumping. You know,
we really want to be able to incentivize growth and
make sure that we get the country moving forward.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Mystery Creek's coming up less than a month now. I
reckon this is just my opinion, and I said this
to Heather last night on newstalks 'd be I think
dairy conversions could be the topic dejure of the Field Days.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, actually, I think I'm looking forward to Field Days.
I was speaking to the new director last night hanging over,
and I'm really quite excited about it. Actually, I've actually
been trying to encourage other leaders and agricultural ministers from
different countries that are visit to come down during field Days,
and I think going forward in the coming years will
make more of that to use it as a diplomatic
event as much as anything as well. But look, last
(02:44):
night I was with Halter, you know, and you think
about what they're doing to improve productivity, and you know,
just through using technology like das actually I spoke to
a number of farmers. I've visited a couple of those
farms where I've actually been able to add to their
herd because of more productive fan juice. And I think,
you know, more productively in some more flexibility of land
juice is kind of what's needed in order to get
(03:06):
more productivity and more return out of it.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So more cows, but not more conversions.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, ultimately, you know, if you think about the history
of the last one hundred and fifty years of how
land has moved from one purpose to another purpose, you know,
you think about going from sheep to beef, to dairy
to kiwi fruit.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
To pine trees.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, yeah, we'll stopping that obviously, But I mean the
bigger issue is sort of like, you know, you should
be able to flow where the biggest margin actually is,
and land should naturally sort of adapt to where where
that wants to get to. So, you know, we've got
to make sure that we get rid of the restrictions
and the dumb stuff and the red tape on that.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Now, I see Chloe Swarbrick had a crack at you
in the house, I think it was yesterday over this
critical part of the government's plan for cutting greenhouse scare
submissions over the next five years to meet our targets
by twenty thirty appears to have fallen over. And this
is all about carbon capture and storing it underground at Caperni.
(04:01):
It's just there's no margin on it for Todd. Will
you be giving them a backhand or in the budget?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
No, I mean those are decisions obviously for Todd to
work out. Whether they can I can't make it work,
that's up to them. But I just say to you know,
other governments, other countries around the world are also you know,
using carbon captures as a way of managing the emissions
component of it. And we think it's got a lot
of legs as well, just like every other country. And
so you know, the bottom line is we've got a plan.
(04:28):
You know, our ERP one is on track, our ERP
two is on track, ERP three. It's a little bit
of work, but we know, you know, there's got a
lot of technologies and things that we have in facts
into our plans. You know, if you think about it,
Fonterra is paying farmers more for milk that's produced on
farms for the missions lower than I think twenty seventeen
or twenty eighteen baselines, and that hasn't been accounted for
in our plans. So look, yeah, there's swims roundabouts through
(04:50):
a plan obviously, but we're quite confident. I mean, you
know we we're on track for Netzera twenty fifty and
in fact, you know some of the full cars say
that we are, we're going to do that six years,
could do that up to six years earlier. So I
mean know our plans in place, and I appreciate close
for what's got a lot of different views of the world.
She definitely has de growth and defunding the police and
(05:11):
that's not something what for either.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And an inheritance tax, just like the Labor Party in
the UK and.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
In here it's okay, wealth text and exactly that that
would text.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That would destroy farming very quickly to finish on Sorry.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Jamie, that's exactly what Labor will do as well. Okay
all text and borrow more too.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Just like the Greens, what happens if we don't meet
that targets do as we said, or as I discussed
with her the last night, someone just gets a slap
over the risk with the wet bus ticket.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, look, I mean the only the target that we're
committed to is next zero twenty fifty and as.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I said, sorry, good step back of it. So if
we don't meet twenty thirty, nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well we're going to do We know that's a pre
stretching target, we're going to do everything we can to
try and hit it. But we're also not going to
send billions of dollars off shore. Let's be clear about that.
You know, we think the answers are on technology, not
through bankrupting farmers and sending billions off shit forsure.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Good luck with the rabbits and the hats tomorrow and
the budget talk you next week.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Thanks Jamie, you have a great week. See you
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