May 21, 2025 • 7 mins
It’s Budget Day! So, what would the Leader of the Opposition do if he were running the cutter? Why the love-in with Federated Farmers? And why are we not seeing any agricultural policy from Labour?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mirrais Hipkins is the Labor Party leader, leader of the
opposition Budget Day to day, Chris, if you were running
the cutter, what would you do? Borrow and damn the torpedoes.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I think what we need to see from the government
is a plan to get New Zealand moving again. So
we need to get people back into work that has
a positive upside to the government and that they end
up paying less than unemployment benefits. We need to get
our infrastructure projects back up and running again. Despite all
their hot talk, we've actually seen less money being spent
on infrastructure over the last eighteen months than was happening
(00:31):
before they became the government. So basically, I think what
we need to see from the government today as a
plan to actually start delivering on the promises that they
made to New Zealanders because so far I think New
Zealand is still waiting.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Okay, and that's possibly a fair argument because they haven't
done that much in the first eighteen months. But there's
a philosophical difference here, isn't there. They want to balance
the box, they want to cut spending, do it that way.
You want to borrow, borrow and spend. That didn't work,
so well for you in the COVID Times.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
No, look, I think you should stop reading your National
Party talking points, Jamie. There are different ways to balance
the books. We all want to see the books balanced.
The difference is Nikola Willis is borrowing money to pay
the day to day bills, and I don't think that's acceptable.
But I think borrowing money to do things like fixing
our roads, fixing up our schools and hospitals, building long
term ass heeats that the country's going to benefit from
(01:22):
that is justified. You know, when you go out and
you buy a bigger house, most people will take out
a bigger mortgage to do that, and then they pay
it off over time. But if you're borrowing, if you're
increasing your mortgage to pay your power bill, then you're
in financial teller. Willis is borrowing to pay the power bill.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Totally get that, Chris. I've got an A minus and
accounting one. I want to believe it or not. I
won't tell you the rest of my marks. But what
happens if we get a major issue and we're talking about,
you know, another earthquake, another big disaster, a cyclone, Gabrielle,
and we no longer have the ability to borrow when
we become a Banana Republic. Is the National Party over
egging that?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I think they are overegging that. And actually some of
the investments that we need to make now are the
sorts of investments that will make us more resilient to
those shocks of the future. So spending more money on
flood protection, for example, spending more money on making sure
that things like our roads and our infrastructure are actually
resilient to extreme weather events, and even like here in
Wellington earthquakes, making sure that we're getting ahead of that
(02:19):
curve means actually the bill for the cleanup afterwards will
be smaller. So there is a justification for investing now
and making sure that we're actually fixing things up. We're
still relying on an infrastructure across the country that was
built for sort of three three and a half million people.
We've now got five and a half million people here.
We've actually got to do something about that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Next week, Labor has its annual lover and as I
call it, with Federated Farmers, yourself, Damian O'Connor, Karen maconnulty,
Joe Luxton, Rachel Brooking or Labor and Peace I quite
like too. By the way Chris meeting with Federated farmers.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I'm not sure you call it a loven, Jamie, but
it is an opportunity for us to meet with sector,
you know, representatives from across the prime reindustries, where we
get to talk about the future, and we get to
talk about future policy because we've actually got a lot
of sheared objectives. When I met with farmers, for example,
they're actually very very focused on sustainability and on making
sure that they're being good guardians of the land. And
(03:16):
you know, I think we actually find that we do
have a lot of common ground there. They also want
to have access to things like good quality healthcare where
they're going to find a lot of common ground with
the Labor Party. There are going to be areas where
where we've got some tricky stuff to work through. You know,
what we do around climate emissions is one of those
things that we're going to be working through next week.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, but you realize farmers would view the last Labor government,
the last term of the last labor government. They ard
and Hipkins government as the worst government in history for farming. Well,
and you agree on that because you have said that
you'd made mistakes in that area. You walk that back.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, yeah, but I don't think I think thing the
way your characterizing is probably a bit extreme.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
None, No, it's not extreme.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Trust me.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I talk to these people all the time. That's how
you're regard it, as do I.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And actually we've developed a pretty good working relationship with
them over the last eighteen months. But I'm pretty optimistic about,
you know, the fact that we can work together in
the future.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Where's your egg policy? As much as I like Joe,
she doesn't ever come out with any policy.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, that's because it's still too soon.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I mean, we've got an election in eighteen months.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, but we're only halfway through the term. The government
can do a lot in eighteen months, and the risk
of putting out policy now is that everything can change
in that period of time and then we'd be saying, well,
are you still going to do this when the government
have done that or whatever. So, actually, you know, you'll
get a good policy for us close to the election.
But one of the things that we are doing is
we're making sure that as we develop our agriculture policy,
that we're speaking to people in agriculture. So it's not
(04:42):
going to be something that we're going to be doing
to them. We're developing it with them.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Will Labor have a big team at field days? I
know you'll be there.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, and I'm there for a day. Unfortunately I can
only make a day this year, but I'll be there
for a day. It's always good fun. I've always enjoyed
my time at field days. So yeah, we we have
a team there probably, like like previous years, we spread
across all days, so we won't all be there all
at once, but we'll be coming and going through the
through the course of the event.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Do you wake up sometimes in the middle of the
night in a cold sweat thinking how the hell am
I ever going to get elected? Because Labor's relatively sane,
let's face it. But your coalition partners, gee, they must
test you.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Chris Hipkins Well, I suspect Christopher Luxon has a similar
dilemma when he looks at New Zealand dust and heck,
you know that's the nature of MMP. You know you've
got to work with other parties. Don't mean unlike Christoph Luckxon,
doesn't mean that you should let them do whatever they want.
You know, I think you've still got to have some
standard and you're still got to have some bottom lines,
so you know, I can work with other parties, doesn't
(05:39):
mean that I'm going to let them call the shots.
You know, David Sema and Winston Peters have been caught
have been holding the country to ransom far too much
over the last year and a half, and frankly, I
think Christopher lux should do more about that.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
But wouldn't Greens with good represented representation, Should I say,
in Parliament potentially hold you to ransom? Would you have
to coalesce with some of their crazy nutty idea around finance.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, You've still got to have bottom lines. You've still
got to be able to say no, we're not going
to go these are things that we're not going to do.
And actually the bigger vote here Labor gets the stronger
our position is to do that. So that's why I'm
out there. I'm only got campaigning for one party in
the next diviction, that's Labor. I want to get Labor
to get as big as share of the vote as
possible because that would put us in the strongest possible
position to form a good stable government.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
A final question for you, do you agree or disagree
that farming the primary sector is our only savior. Why
would you kill the goose that lays the golden egg?
Do you agree with that proposition?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I don't necessarily agree with that proposition. I do agree
that farming is vitally important for New Zealand, and of
course we'd never want to, you know, to kill the
golden goose, so to speak. But we've got other really
promising industries that we need to back as well. So
don't think it's an either or I think it's both.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
We might agree to disagree on that one. Hey, Chris Hipkins.
Whether we disagree or not, it's good to have you
on the country. Looking forward to yarning to you and
field at Field Days and three weeks time
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Course Cold look forward to seeing you here, Janey
Mirrais Hipkins is the Labor Party leader, leader of the
opposition Budget Day to day, Chris, if you were running
the cutter, what would you do? Borrow and damn the torpedoes.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I think what we need to see from the government
is a plan to get New Zealand moving again. So
we need to get people back into work that has
a positive upside to the government and that they end
up paying less than unemployment benefits. We need to get
our infrastructure projects back up and running again. Despite all
their hot talk, we've actually seen less money being spent
on infrastructure over the last eighteen months than was happening
(00:31):
before they became the government. So basically, I think what
we need to see from the government today as a
plan to actually start delivering on the promises that they
made to New Zealanders because so far I think New
Zealand is still waiting.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Okay, and that's possibly a fair argument because they haven't
done that much in the first eighteen months. But there's
a philosophical difference here, isn't there. They want to balance
the box, they want to cut spending, do it that way.
You want to borrow, borrow and spend. That didn't work,
so well for you in the COVID Times.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
No, look, I think you should stop reading your National
Party talking points, Jamie. There are different ways to balance
the books. We all want to see the books balanced.
The difference is Nikola Willis is borrowing money to pay
the day to day bills, and I don't think that's acceptable.
But I think borrowing money to do things like fixing
our roads, fixing up our schools and hospitals, building long
term ass heeats that the country's going to benefit from
(01:22):
that is justified. You know, when you go out and
you buy a bigger house, most people will take out
a bigger mortgage to do that, and then they pay
it off over time. But if you're borrowing, if you're
increasing your mortgage to pay your power bill, then you're
in financial teller. Willis is borrowing to pay the power bill.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Totally get that, Chris. I've got an A minus and
accounting one. I want to believe it or not. I
won't tell you the rest of my marks. But what
happens if we get a major issue and we're talking about,
you know, another earthquake, another big disaster, a cyclone, Gabrielle,
and we no longer have the ability to borrow when
we become a Banana Republic. Is the National Party over
egging that?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I think they are overegging that. And actually some of
the investments that we need to make now are the
sorts of investments that will make us more resilient to
those shocks of the future. So spending more money on
flood protection, for example, spending more money on making sure
that things like our roads and our infrastructure are actually
resilient to extreme weather events, and even like here in
Wellington earthquakes, making sure that we're getting ahead of that
(02:19):
curve means actually the bill for the cleanup afterwards will
be smaller. So there is a justification for investing now
and making sure that we're actually fixing things up. We're
still relying on an infrastructure across the country that was
built for sort of three three and a half million people.
We've now got five and a half million people here.
We've actually got to do something about that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Next week, Labor has its annual lover and as I
call it, with Federated Farmers, yourself, Damian O'Connor, Karen maconnulty,
Joe Luxton, Rachel Brooking or Labor and Peace I quite
like too. By the way Chris meeting with Federated farmers.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I'm not sure you call it a loven, Jamie, but
it is an opportunity for us to meet with sector,
you know, representatives from across the prime reindustries, where we
get to talk about the future, and we get to
talk about future policy because we've actually got a lot
of sheared objectives. When I met with farmers, for example,
they're actually very very focused on sustainability and on making
sure that they're being good guardians of the land. And
(03:16):
you know, I think we actually find that we do
have a lot of common ground there. They also want
to have access to things like good quality healthcare where
they're going to find a lot of common ground with
the Labor Party. There are going to be areas where
where we've got some tricky stuff to work through. You know,
what we do around climate emissions is one of those
things that we're going to be working through next week.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, but you realize farmers would view the last Labor government,
the last term of the last labor government. They ard
and Hipkins government as the worst government in history for farming. Well,
and you agree on that because you have said that
you'd made mistakes in that area. You walk that back.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, yeah, but I don't think I think thing the
way your characterizing is probably a bit extreme.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
None, No, it's not extreme.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Trust me.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I talk to these people all the time. That's how
you're regard it, as do I.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
And actually we've developed a pretty good working relationship with
them over the last eighteen months. But I'm pretty optimistic about,
you know, the fact that we can work together in
the future.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Where's your egg policy? As much as I like Joe,
she doesn't ever come out with any policy.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, that's because it's still too soon.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I mean, we've got an election in eighteen months.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, but we're only halfway through the term. The government
can do a lot in eighteen months, and the risk
of putting out policy now is that everything can change
in that period of time and then we'd be saying, well,
are you still going to do this when the government
have done that or whatever. So, actually, you know, you'll
get a good policy for us close to the election.
But one of the things that we are doing is
we're making sure that as we develop our agriculture policy,
that we're speaking to people in agriculture. So it's not
(04:42):
going to be something that we're going to be doing
to them. We're developing it with them.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Will Labor have a big team at field days? I
know you'll be there.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, and I'm there for a day. Unfortunately I can
only make a day this year, but I'll be there
for a day. It's always good fun. I've always enjoyed
my time at field days. So yeah, we we have
a team there probably, like like previous years, we spread
across all days, so we won't all be there all
at once, but we'll be coming and going through the
through the course of the event.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Do you wake up sometimes in the middle of the
night in a cold sweat thinking how the hell am
I ever going to get elected? Because Labor's relatively sane,
let's face it. But your coalition partners, gee, they must
test you.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Chris Hipkins Well, I suspect Christopher Luxon has a similar
dilemma when he looks at New Zealand dust and heck,
you know that's the nature of MMP. You know you've
got to work with other parties. Don't mean unlike Christoph Luckxon,
doesn't mean that you should let them do whatever they want.
You know, I think you've still got to have some
standard and you're still got to have some bottom lines,
so you know, I can work with other parties, doesn't
(05:39):
mean that I'm going to let them call the shots.
You know, David Sema and Winston Peters have been caught
have been holding the country to ransom far too much
over the last year and a half, and frankly, I
think Christopher lux should do more about that.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
But wouldn't Greens with good represented representation, Should I say,
in Parliament potentially hold you to ransom? Would you have
to coalesce with some of their crazy nutty idea around finance.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, You've still got to have bottom lines. You've still
got to be able to say no, we're not going
to go these are things that we're not going to do.
And actually the bigger vote here Labor gets the stronger
our position is to do that. So that's why I'm
out there. I'm only got campaigning for one party in
the next diviction, that's Labor. I want to get Labor
to get as big as share of the vote as
possible because that would put us in the strongest possible
position to form a good stable government.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
A final question for you, do you agree or disagree
that farming the primary sector is our only savior. Why
would you kill the goose that lays the golden egg?
Do you agree with that proposition?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I don't necessarily agree with that proposition. I do agree
that farming is vitally important for New Zealand, and of
course we'd never want to, you know, to kill the
golden goose, so to speak. But we've got other really
promising industries that we need to back as well. So
don't think it's an either or I think it's both.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
We might agree to disagree on that one. Hey, Chris Hipkins.
Whether we disagree or not, it's good to have you
on the country. Looking forward to yarning to you and
field at Field Days and three weeks time
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Course Cold look forward to seeing you here, Janey
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