August 21, 2024 • 5 mins
The co-author of a just-released white paper - Why Pines? - warns there will be a significant transition of sheep and beef farmers into pine forestry unless the current government policies and economic signals are reconsidered.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So one of today's big news story is the white paper.
It's called why Pines, and it warns there will be
a significant transition of sheep and beef farms into pine
forestry unless current government policies and economic signals are reconsidered.
Let's welcome the author of said report, doctor Jenny Webster Brown,
(00:20):
onto the show. Jenny, here's a question for you and
opener for you. Are pines victims or villains?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, that's a good question. They are a bit of both.
And I must first of all give the credit to
my co authors as well, and I'm not the only
author of this white paper, and it does pull together
four research programs that we've done, so you know this
is someone else's research as well as a co authored
(00:47):
white paper. Victims of villains, Well, they are neither, really.
I mean, they are an option for changing our land
use to improve our water quality. And this the research
we've done shows how much land use and what type
of land uice would be best to change into pine
(01:07):
forest in order to get that change in water quality
that we're seeking.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
But I thought pine trees were but sorry, Jenny, I said,
doctor Jenny, I thought pine trees were bad for water quality.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
No they're not. No, No, they're not. If you look
at the day to day impacts on water quality that
farming has compared to what forestry has, they stack up
pretty well. The issue is, of course, when you enter
the harvesting cycle, then you have a lot of wood
(01:40):
debris and sediment which can go into the water, so
that their impacts on water quality are quite specific and
quite time dependent, but overall they would lead to an
improvement in our water quality if we converted.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
At what costs? Do we want to be the pine
plantation of the South Pacific? Do we want mine culture?
Everywhere you drive in New Zealand, you just see pine forests.
I don't want to see that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
No, well, I think you share that view with most
New Zealanders. We don't want to see that, and we
don't want to lose what is effectively part of our
national identity. Beef and sheep farming is a core part
of New Zealand and a core part of our economy,
our primary sector economy as well. So I think what
(02:26):
the modeling tells us is one story. It's really issuing
a bit of a warning, like, Okay, if we don't
change our policy approach, if we stop think if we
don't stop thinking just inside the box about our main
land uses and you know, not think about some more
innovative land uses. This is the direction we're going to
(02:47):
travel in.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Can pine trees and sheep and beef live harmoniously, right tree,
right place. We're going to be hopefully talking to a
farmer later in the show about putting pine trees in
the right place and not only having the forestry income
but also the carbon credits on your farms, because there's
plenty of places on sheep and beef farms right around
(03:09):
the country where I suggest you can plant plant pines
and it's a win win situation.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And when you're talking about farm by farm, I think
absolutely you can. And that is the approach that's been taken. Now,
you put pine trees on high erosion land, that's not
going to be good for farming, pork, sail quality. The
issue is if we want to create that national scale
target of achieving water quality on a national scale, we
(03:39):
need to do more than simply plant up those areas
which are no good for farming. We need to start
actively converting farmland and pine What about what the modeling?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, okay, what about the social consequences for rural New Zealand.
You looked at that as well.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
We did. We did. It wasn't part of the research
per se, but it's certainly an implication of the research.
The social consequences of planting all our farming or a
lot of our farming area into pines are huge for
rural communities. The employment opportunities are not the same. The
rural communities will start to lose their populations and their
(04:19):
schools and their amenities, and that will be a very
significant change for our social structure in New Zealand. And
I don't think anybody wants to see that anymore than
they want to see a landscape covered in pine trees.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So you've released this white paper this morning. Who's going
to read it other than me and you, Jenny? And
what are you hoping to get from it?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, we are hoping that policy developers will recognize that
the policy is driving us in a certain direction, which
is necessarily what we want, and they will read it
and take it on board. We are hoping that beef
(05:02):
and sheep farmers and the people who export their products
overseas will read it and think about what they can
do to make beef and sheep farming. Obviously they've been
thinking about this for years, but you know, the incentive
is even greater now to look at how they can
get better value from those products so its stacks are
better against pine forest. We're hoping that the climate change
(05:26):
policy developers can think about, you know, native forest as
an alternative pine forest, making native forest planting more affordable
and more rewarded in terms of how we count cardon
carbon credits.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Interesting indeed, doctor Jenny Webster, author or co author of
the white paper why Pines from Our Land Our Water?
Very interesting. Thanks for your time, Jenny, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Thank you, Jamie
So one of today's big news story is the white paper.
It's called why Pines, and it warns there will be
a significant transition of sheep and beef farms into pine
forestry unless current government policies and economic signals are reconsidered.
Let's welcome the author of said report, doctor Jenny Webster Brown,
(00:20):
onto the show. Jenny, here's a question for you and
opener for you. Are pines victims or villains?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, that's a good question. They are a bit of both.
And I must first of all give the credit to
my co authors as well, and I'm not the only
author of this white paper, and it does pull together
four research programs that we've done, so you know this
is someone else's research as well as a co authored
(00:47):
white paper. Victims of villains, Well, they are neither, really.
I mean, they are an option for changing our land
use to improve our water quality. And this the research
we've done shows how much land use and what type
of land uice would be best to change into pine
(01:07):
forest in order to get that change in water quality
that we're seeking.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
But I thought pine trees were but sorry, Jenny, I said,
doctor Jenny, I thought pine trees were bad for water quality.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
No they're not. No, No, they're not. If you look
at the day to day impacts on water quality that
farming has compared to what forestry has, they stack up
pretty well. The issue is, of course, when you enter
the harvesting cycle, then you have a lot of wood
(01:40):
debris and sediment which can go into the water, so
that their impacts on water quality are quite specific and
quite time dependent, but overall they would lead to an
improvement in our water quality if we converted.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
At what costs? Do we want to be the pine
plantation of the South Pacific? Do we want mine culture?
Everywhere you drive in New Zealand, you just see pine forests.
I don't want to see that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
No, well, I think you share that view with most
New Zealanders. We don't want to see that, and we
don't want to lose what is effectively part of our
national identity. Beef and sheep farming is a core part
of New Zealand and a core part of our economy,
our primary sector economy as well. So I think what
(02:26):
the modeling tells us is one story. It's really issuing
a bit of a warning, like, Okay, if we don't
change our policy approach, if we stop think if we
don't stop thinking just inside the box about our main
land uses and you know, not think about some more
innovative land uses. This is the direction we're going to
(02:47):
travel in.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Can pine trees and sheep and beef live harmoniously, right tree,
right place. We're going to be hopefully talking to a
farmer later in the show about putting pine trees in
the right place and not only having the forestry income
but also the carbon credits on your farms, because there's
plenty of places on sheep and beef farms right around
(03:09):
the country where I suggest you can plant plant pines
and it's a win win situation.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And when you're talking about farm by farm, I think
absolutely you can. And that is the approach that's been taken. Now,
you put pine trees on high erosion land, that's not
going to be good for farming, pork, sail quality. The
issue is if we want to create that national scale
target of achieving water quality on a national scale, we
(03:39):
need to do more than simply plant up those areas
which are no good for farming. We need to start
actively converting farmland and pine What about what the modeling?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, okay, what about the social consequences for rural New Zealand.
You looked at that as well.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
We did. We did. It wasn't part of the research
per se, but it's certainly an implication of the research.
The social consequences of planting all our farming or a
lot of our farming area into pines are huge for
rural communities. The employment opportunities are not the same. The
rural communities will start to lose their populations and their
(04:19):
schools and their amenities, and that will be a very
significant change for our social structure in New Zealand. And
I don't think anybody wants to see that anymore than
they want to see a landscape covered in pine trees.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So you've released this white paper this morning. Who's going
to read it other than me and you, Jenny? And
what are you hoping to get from it?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, we are hoping that policy developers will recognize that
the policy is driving us in a certain direction, which
is necessarily what we want, and they will read it
and take it on board. We are hoping that beef
(05:02):
and sheep farmers and the people who export their products
overseas will read it and think about what they can
do to make beef and sheep farming. Obviously they've been
thinking about this for years, but you know, the incentive
is even greater now to look at how they can
get better value from those products so its stacks are
better against pine forest. We're hoping that the climate change
(05:26):
policy developers can think about, you know, native forest as
an alternative pine forest, making native forest planting more affordable
and more rewarded in terms of how we count cardon
carbon credits.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Interesting indeed, doctor Jenny Webster, author or co author of
the white paper why Pines from Our Land Our Water?
Very interesting. Thanks for your time, Jenny, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Thank you, Jamie
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