July 22, 2025 • 9 mins
Was Nicola Willis sent on a fool’s errand to Fonterra? The government can’t do anything about the price of butter and cheese (without subsidies), but what can it do to kneecap spendthrift local body councils? Is the Prime Minister concerned with what’s happening at Pāmu, after the sudden resignation of the long-standing and well-regarded manager of Molesworth Station, Jim Ward?
Should the state be a farmer? Or is that an outmoded concept? And what about “frickin” Chris Hipkins?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the Country, the PM kicks off the show.
Here's an opener for you, Christopher Luxen. Did you see
Nichola Willis on a fool's errand when she went to
chat to Miles Hurrel about the price of butter.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
No, no, look, Fonterra does for a meeting with Nicola
with respect to supermarkets. She's doing some good work behind
the scenes on trying to do everything we can to
make sure that we've got more competition in the supermarket sector.
She wants to talk to existing retailers, new potential new
retailers and also big big supplies as well. Obviously Fonterra
is one of the biggest, So you know, that was
(00:32):
what they would have been talking about. And I guess
she would have asked me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, well, hang on, why didn't she go straight to the
Supermarkets's she more than anyone will know, as being a
former Fonterra executive, that there's not much Fonterra can do
about it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, No, it's a broader conversation Jbie about supermarkets that
Nicholas working on right now, and so she's talking to
everybody big suppliers think about you know, the big multinational companies.
Obviously Fonterra is a big local company, more companies that
are trying to provide into supermarkets across New Zealand as
well as obviously the existing supplies all retailers here, as
(01:07):
well as obviously trying to think about what would it
you know, what other issues are happening out there with
potential new entrants as well that might be interested in
coming to New Zealand or not, and why so and
what could we do about it? So that's that's she's
on a very broad sort of engagement across the system
to understand the issues around how we get more competition supermarkets.
You know, you're right, you know the story, which is
(01:28):
that you know, essentially you know, New Zealand jery prices
are in huge demand internationally. You know, you've seen China,
for example this year next year, I think, are actually
lowering productions and there's huge demand. You know what butter
means to different markets that we've got around the world,
it's just huge. I mean, as I came through China recently,
it's just obvious that New Zealand butter is just we've
trained the Chinese consumer to think of New Zealand butter
(01:50):
as the best, and as a result, it's being used
by all those bakers making cakes and all that stuff.
So that high global price is what drives the price
a butter predominantly.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Did you pick up on the common from Open Country
Dairy Mark de Latour on the show last week saying
they're building a new butter factory in the White Catto
Zero of it, zero percent of that zelch Nada will
be sold domestically because simply they can make more money
exporting it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's it's it's incredible. I mean,
it's it's it's a you know, it's a problem that
obviously causes a higher butter price here at home, but
actually is the thing that actually makes returns for our
farmers that are very strong at the moment. So but
what's incredible is when you do go into these markets,
you know, we've trained them that our butter and the
color of our butter is better than white butter they
might get from any other country in the world. So
(02:36):
and honestly, the strategy of driving into the food service sectors,
whether it's the cake makers and the bakeries and stuff
like that, is really successful. So yeah, I mean, I
get it. I mean there's a huge demand for needy
on protein and particularly dairy.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Okay, well, well you may be better off letting nicolor
off the leash at the local body of councils around
the country. I don't know whether that's her domain. I'm
not sure who that sits under. West Coast Regional Council
sixty five percent rate row over the past three years.
Kluther District Council leading the charge just down the road
from me, nearly seventeen percent annually. These are unsustainable.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, look, I mean that. I mean, we certainly had
Local government conference last week and Chris Bishop and Simon
Watts made that point incredibly strongly. I mean, if you
look at our inflation numbers that came out yesterday, you
know we were at two point seven percent. They would
have been at two point three, but there was about
forty basis points that was tied to rates. Because rates
are gone up twelve point two percent, all the rest
(03:31):
of the prices of everybody else is on off about
two and a half percent across the country. So yeah,
we've got a real problem with rates. It's why I've
been banging on about this for a year to say,
hang on Actually we need you to focus on the core.
So what we've done is we've got a bill going
through the Parliament that's kept off now which says get
rid of these well beings. That's nonsense that was created
by labor. That's not your core business. Focus on your
(03:51):
core business, which is core infrastructure and services that you know,
to send your rate pass report on your spending on
contractors and consultants and do those sorts of things and
a bigger piece of work that's happening. It will take
advice and we'll have a position on pairly. Shortly will
be about rates caps. You know. I think we have
to introduce capping the rates. I think we have to
do that now. There be a lot of people. I
(04:11):
see a lot of political parties going up against us
and me saying that, but I think we have to
do that. Of councils after a year have not been
able to get it gripped up and sort it out.
They need to do so. I mean it was interesting
to me. There's lots of ways to do it. Auckland
Council was a classic Jamie. They we used to run
their three watered assets. They put them into a separate entity.
Where they have local control but they have balance sheet separation.
(04:31):
They managed to move from a twenty four percent proposed
rate rise down to a six that's Auckland, you know,
our biggest city in the country. And we did that
through restructuring and using their funding and financing in different ways.
There's lots of ways to do this. So yeah, so
we've got a real challenge. Rates shouldn't be going up
to twelve point two percent when the rest of the price
is going up about two and a half across the country.
And as a result, rate caps are coming and we
(04:53):
want to push that proposal hard.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Maybe we should get grumpy old Wayne Brown to run
all the local body authorities around the country. He would
sort it out. Now are you concerned at what's happening
with Palmu? The sudden resignation As I understand that he
was pushed of long standing well regarded manager of Molesworth Station,
our biggest farm, Jim Ward. It raises the question yet again,
should the state to be a farmer or is that
(05:15):
an outmoded concept?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, I think you know, I don't know enough about
the individual circumstances of his resignation. Obviously it's a matter
for Landcorp. And for him, what I can say is
we have seen a very clear directive that we expect
all that SOEs to be incredibly well governed, deliver on
their goals, and obviously generate a return. And Samian Brown's
made that crystal cleare in recent letters to all the
(05:38):
CEOs and cheers of those SOEs. I know we're worried
about Mission creep and within Land Corp. And you know,
we want that organization to get back to basics and
to do the basics well. And that means that any
capital that's raised through selling land should certainly be returned
obviously to the shield as some capital or some surplus,
but not reinvested in new ventures like four ex large
(06:00):
plantings of forestry on farmland. We're not doing that. We've
ruled that out. Remember. So yeah, so I don't know
enough about the individual circumstances, but I just say to
you we expect better performance from Nancorp.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Philosophically though, should the government be running farms well, the
ancwers probably, no private enterprise probably does a better job well.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I mean our expectation is you know that that's the
position that they do for you know, historical reasons. We
have these farms under the Land Corps. We expect them
to be well maintained and well run and well governed
and returns generated as it is in the private sector,
and as the farmers across the country has done an
exceptionally good job in the last couple of years of
turning things around and running their businesses really well, we
(06:44):
expect the same from from from from these guys, not
actually sort of going off on diversions of wanting to plant,
you know, farm land into forestry, which is just not
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, just just finally, on a lighter note, what did frickin'
Chris Hipkins do to get under your skin yesterday? You
were sort of channeling your very beat doctor evil.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They are no, I just I just of it. Honestly,
Like these guys, you know, they crash this economy, They
ran the car into the ditch and then like they
don't care about lower middle and come working New Zealanders.
Because they end up running the economy in such a
way it drove inflation and interest rates and put us
into recession for three years. And then he sort of
has the audacities that have asked some question about you
(07:22):
know our Family Boost program which is designed to help,
you know, help help you know, lower middling.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Oh no, no, no, help help people who are earning
two hundred grand.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
No. And I just think about it. You know, a
nurse on one hundred and twenty five, a teacher on
you know, one hundred, both working hard. It doesn't remember,
it care. It also tapers off before it hits that number.
So at one hundred and forty, I think it starts
tapering off. But my issue was just more like, honestly,
these guys are a joke. I mean honestly that you know,
how do you have the audacity to ask these questions
(07:51):
when you are the people that created a huge problem
and you created so much pain and suffering for New
Zealanders and you're trying to guesslight your record.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And that's more arguing with that. I agree with you
on that one. But if we take the latest Talbot
Mills poll into consideration, most people don't agree with you
and I in fact that Labor, the Greens and to
Party Maury would have enough to govern.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Jaie, I just wouldn't. There are so many poles, my friend,
They all say completely often different things. Are the only
polls that matter is, Oh.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Come on, come up on something original.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
No, I just say to you, just don't let yourself
get bounced around. Focus on the mission here, which is
that we're here to change the country sort of our
get it turned around, keet it moving in the right direction,
realizing the potential that it's got. I'm sorry, but I'm
not going to be bounced around every week by a
different pole and make decisions on that basis. We get
to fix things and so polls they say lots of
different things, as you know you've seen, And what we're
(08:46):
focused on is if we've done our job in twenty
twenty six, these elves have a pretty clear choice. Do
you want Marla Mara and Chloe and Rori and Debbie
and Crisip consitting around the table or do you want
a more stable coalition that can actually get on and
get things done? And they'll be their choice.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Well, yesterday your channel doctor Evil. Today I think you
should have channeled former Prime Minister Jim Boulger bugger the
polls Prime Minister Chris Luxon. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Hey, you always good chatting Jamie. You take care of
a great week.
Wednesdays on the Country, the PM kicks off the show.
Here's an opener for you, Christopher Luxen. Did you see
Nichola Willis on a fool's errand when she went to
chat to Miles Hurrel about the price of butter.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
No, no, look, Fonterra does for a meeting with Nicola
with respect to supermarkets. She's doing some good work behind
the scenes on trying to do everything we can to
make sure that we've got more competition in the supermarket sector.
She wants to talk to existing retailers, new potential new
retailers and also big big supplies as well. Obviously Fonterra
is one of the biggest, So you know, that was
(00:32):
what they would have been talking about. And I guess
she would have asked me.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, well, hang on, why didn't she go straight to the
Supermarkets's she more than anyone will know, as being a
former Fonterra executive, that there's not much Fonterra can do
about it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, No, it's a broader conversation Jbie about supermarkets that
Nicholas working on right now, and so she's talking to
everybody big suppliers think about you know, the big multinational companies.
Obviously Fonterra is a big local company, more companies that
are trying to provide into supermarkets across New Zealand as
well as obviously the existing supplies all retailers here, as
(01:07):
well as obviously trying to think about what would it
you know, what other issues are happening out there with
potential new entrants as well that might be interested in
coming to New Zealand or not, and why so and
what could we do about it? So that's that's she's
on a very broad sort of engagement across the system
to understand the issues around how we get more competition supermarkets.
You know, you're right, you know the story, which is
(01:28):
that you know, essentially you know, New Zealand jery prices
are in huge demand internationally. You know, you've seen China,
for example this year next year, I think, are actually
lowering productions and there's huge demand. You know what butter
means to different markets that we've got around the world,
it's just huge. I mean, as I came through China recently,
it's just obvious that New Zealand butter is just we've
trained the Chinese consumer to think of New Zealand butter
(01:50):
as the best, and as a result, it's being used
by all those bakers making cakes and all that stuff.
So that high global price is what drives the price
a butter predominantly.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Did you pick up on the common from Open Country
Dairy Mark de Latour on the show last week saying
they're building a new butter factory in the White Catto
Zero of it, zero percent of that zelch Nada will
be sold domestically because simply they can make more money
exporting it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's it's it's incredible. I mean,
it's it's it's a you know, it's a problem that
obviously causes a higher butter price here at home, but
actually is the thing that actually makes returns for our
farmers that are very strong at the moment. So but
what's incredible is when you do go into these markets,
you know, we've trained them that our butter and the
color of our butter is better than white butter they
might get from any other country in the world. So
(02:36):
and honestly, the strategy of driving into the food service sectors,
whether it's the cake makers and the bakeries and stuff
like that, is really successful. So yeah, I mean, I
get it. I mean there's a huge demand for needy
on protein and particularly dairy.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Okay, well, well you may be better off letting nicolor
off the leash at the local body of councils around
the country. I don't know whether that's her domain. I'm
not sure who that sits under. West Coast Regional Council
sixty five percent rate row over the past three years.
Kluther District Council leading the charge just down the road
from me, nearly seventeen percent annually. These are unsustainable.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, look, I mean that. I mean, we certainly had
Local government conference last week and Chris Bishop and Simon
Watts made that point incredibly strongly. I mean, if you
look at our inflation numbers that came out yesterday, you
know we were at two point seven percent. They would
have been at two point three, but there was about
forty basis points that was tied to rates. Because rates
are gone up twelve point two percent, all the rest
(03:31):
of the prices of everybody else is on off about
two and a half percent across the country. So yeah,
we've got a real problem with rates. It's why I've
been banging on about this for a year to say,
hang on Actually we need you to focus on the core.
So what we've done is we've got a bill going
through the Parliament that's kept off now which says get
rid of these well beings. That's nonsense that was created
by labor. That's not your core business. Focus on your
(03:51):
core business, which is core infrastructure and services that you know,
to send your rate pass report on your spending on
contractors and consultants and do those sorts of things and
a bigger piece of work that's happening. It will take
advice and we'll have a position on pairly. Shortly will
be about rates caps. You know. I think we have
to introduce capping the rates. I think we have to
do that now. There be a lot of people. I
(04:11):
see a lot of political parties going up against us
and me saying that, but I think we have to
do that. Of councils after a year have not been
able to get it gripped up and sort it out.
They need to do so. I mean it was interesting
to me. There's lots of ways to do it. Auckland
Council was a classic Jamie. They we used to run
their three watered assets. They put them into a separate entity.
Where they have local control but they have balance sheet separation.
(04:31):
They managed to move from a twenty four percent proposed
rate rise down to a six that's Auckland, you know,
our biggest city in the country. And we did that
through restructuring and using their funding and financing in different ways.
There's lots of ways to do this. So yeah, so
we've got a real challenge. Rates shouldn't be going up
to twelve point two percent when the rest of the price
is going up about two and a half across the country.
And as a result, rate caps are coming and we
(04:53):
want to push that proposal hard.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Maybe we should get grumpy old Wayne Brown to run
all the local body authorities around the country. He would
sort it out. Now are you concerned at what's happening
with Palmu? The sudden resignation As I understand that he
was pushed of long standing well regarded manager of Molesworth Station,
our biggest farm, Jim Ward. It raises the question yet again,
should the state to be a farmer or is that
(05:15):
an outmoded concept?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Well, I think you know, I don't know enough about
the individual circumstances of his resignation. Obviously it's a matter
for Landcorp. And for him, what I can say is
we have seen a very clear directive that we expect
all that SOEs to be incredibly well governed, deliver on
their goals, and obviously generate a return. And Samian Brown's
made that crystal cleare in recent letters to all the
(05:38):
CEOs and cheers of those SOEs. I know we're worried
about Mission creep and within Land Corp. And you know,
we want that organization to get back to basics and
to do the basics well. And that means that any
capital that's raised through selling land should certainly be returned
obviously to the shield as some capital or some surplus,
but not reinvested in new ventures like four ex large
(06:00):
plantings of forestry on farmland. We're not doing that. We've
ruled that out. Remember. So yeah, so I don't know
enough about the individual circumstances, but I just say to
you we expect better performance from Nancorp.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Philosophically though, should the government be running farms well, the
ancwers probably, no private enterprise probably does a better job well.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I mean our expectation is you know that that's the
position that they do for you know, historical reasons. We
have these farms under the Land Corps. We expect them
to be well maintained and well run and well governed
and returns generated as it is in the private sector,
and as the farmers across the country has done an
exceptionally good job in the last couple of years of
turning things around and running their businesses really well, we
(06:44):
expect the same from from from from these guys, not
actually sort of going off on diversions of wanting to plant,
you know, farm land into forestry, which is just not
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, just just finally, on a lighter note, what did frickin'
Chris Hipkins do to get under your skin yesterday? You
were sort of channeling your very beat doctor evil.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
They are no, I just I just of it. Honestly,
Like these guys, you know, they crash this economy, They
ran the car into the ditch and then like they
don't care about lower middle and come working New Zealanders.
Because they end up running the economy in such a
way it drove inflation and interest rates and put us
into recession for three years. And then he sort of
has the audacities that have asked some question about you
(07:22):
know our Family Boost program which is designed to help,
you know, help help you know, lower middling.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Oh no, no, no, help help people who are earning
two hundred grand.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
No. And I just think about it. You know, a
nurse on one hundred and twenty five, a teacher on
you know, one hundred, both working hard. It doesn't remember,
it care. It also tapers off before it hits that number.
So at one hundred and forty, I think it starts
tapering off. But my issue was just more like, honestly,
these guys are a joke. I mean honestly that you know,
how do you have the audacity to ask these questions
(07:51):
when you are the people that created a huge problem
and you created so much pain and suffering for New
Zealanders and you're trying to guesslight your record.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And that's more arguing with that. I agree with you
on that one. But if we take the latest Talbot
Mills poll into consideration, most people don't agree with you
and I in fact that Labor, the Greens and to
Party Maury would have enough to govern.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Jaie, I just wouldn't. There are so many poles, my friend,
They all say completely often different things. Are the only
polls that matter is, Oh.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Come on, come up on something original.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
No, I just say to you, just don't let yourself
get bounced around. Focus on the mission here, which is
that we're here to change the country sort of our
get it turned around, keet it moving in the right direction,
realizing the potential that it's got. I'm sorry, but I'm
not going to be bounced around every week by a
different pole and make decisions on that basis. We get
to fix things and so polls they say lots of
different things, as you know you've seen, And what we're
(08:46):
focused on is if we've done our job in twenty
twenty six, these elves have a pretty clear choice. Do
you want Marla Mara and Chloe and Rori and Debbie
and Crisip consitting around the table or do you want
a more stable coalition that can actually get on and
get things done? And they'll be their choice.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Well, yesterday your channel doctor Evil. Today I think you
should have channeled former Prime Minister Jim Boulger bugger the
polls Prime Minister Chris Luxon. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Hey, you always good chatting Jamie. You take care of
a great week.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.