The Country 27/05/25: Mark Leslie talks to Jamie Mackay

The chief executive of Pāmu defends the state-owned farmer’s move into carbon farming, as yet another “magnificent food producing station” at Reporoa goes to pine trees. But isn’t the government placing limits on how much Class 6 land can go into trees? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay. On yesterday's show, we got a couple of interesting
texts and texts and should I say one of them
said land corpse Munga mingy. I hope I got that
right station and Riperoa is going into trees. The Angus
cowherd is getting sold at the Talpo Sallyiards this week.

(00:21):
A magnificent food producing station gone now as fate would
have it. Another text is said the CEO of Palmu
Land Corp is Mark Leslie repaoa born and bred might
be worth a chat. Well let's give him the opportunity
of a chat. Mark. I thought you were meant to
be representing as the government's farm, the government's wishes going

(00:44):
into carbon farming's not really doing that. Good afternoon, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Good afternoon, Jamie. And hey, I'll respond right up front
of that one. We're not going into carbon farming. And
I think I listened to your show yesterday and I
think I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
If you look at what we doing. We're not planting
high quality land into lock leave, but carbon forestry. We've
very clearly, as you've heard of say plenty of times,
right tree, right place. So our focus is around sort

(01:13):
of having ten to fifteen percent of our state and forestry.
And we can come back into.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Well, how much of Mungaming East Station and Rappero is
going into trees? What only ten or fifteen percent of it?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
So for Mungaming Station, greater than nine percent of that
is land class six and seven.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
So the whole lot's going into trees.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
No, not, the whole lot's going into trees. There will
be a block of land of a circle two hundred
and thirty one hundred and fifty eight years or six
hundred acres that'll be staying as a farming operation that
links into our broader farming operations there. So that'll be
moving into carfararing and dairy support and aligns to our
dairy units just down the road, as well as providing

(01:54):
options for us to continue to expand out what we're
doing with dairy beaks.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
So, okay, you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong here,
because money going by memory. But isn't the government you
know who owns you. Aren't they limiting the amount of
land class or a Class six land that can go
into forestry. Isn't it like something like fifteen thousand hectares
per annum, you'll gobble the whole lot up at Land Corp.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
No, no, we won't because we've already this, as you know,
has been part of our strategy for a number of years.
So we're probably already circ at ten or eleven percent
of our area in forestry, and we looking at next
year we're planting less than a thousand heads into forestry.
So that is very much as been clearly part of it.

(02:39):
That rtery right place, as you said yesterday, we will
pick those right places. And for the land we've got left.
If you look at our annual accounts for the last
couple of years, our total livestock production, our sheep and
beef numbers continue to increase as we drive more efficiency
out of the land that is left.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Why don't you redeploy, if that's the correct word, the
Angus cow herd that's being sold at the Taipost sallyards
this week, why don't you move it to one of
move the herd to one of your other farms. Surely
beef's a good business to be in now.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, and hey, we have looked at that as well.
But equally for our we do have a large number
of animals across across the number of our farms, so
we're clear breeding drags where we do move those animals around.
The decision was made to sell that herd as a
whole herd from an interest perspective. As you know, we've
still got one hundred thousand plus beef animals that will

(03:32):
be on her properties this year, so we've made that
decision to sell that one as one as one going
going light.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's a hand on heart. Mark Leslie, Chief executive of Palmer.
Are you planting the trees for the carbon credits or
are you going to do something with them eventually like
production forestry. What's the main incentive here? Surely in the
short term it's carbon credits because at the moment the
return on forestry isn't that flash. I'm not saying it
won't be in twenty or thirty years time, but am

(04:00):
I right in saying that. No.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
We we have always been very clear that any forest
we plant is planted with a harvest intent. We are
not too earlier point. We're not planting good quality land
and locking it up and leaving it. It is always planted,
and then from a looking after it, from a pruning,
thinning perspective, it is always done with the perspective that
it will be of harvest nature. And in around those areas,

(04:26):
as you know's there's a large amount of forestry as well,
so it integrates into where there is salmills and things
like that. So our intent is always that those forests
are planted will have a harvest harvest purpose.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
How many other land called farms or stations are going
to carbon farming?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
None of them are going to carbon farming. They're all
we are going.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I'll rephrase the question, how many are going to trees?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I mean, as I said, across many of our dairy units,
they won't have large numbers of areas of forestry unit,
but across our fifty or sixty livestock units in the
North Island, there most of them will have an element
of forestry on them. And as I said earlier, they
clearly are in areas where it suits from an animal's perspective,
shade and shelter. It may be fencing off. I think

(05:09):
you caught it yesterday, those tough gullies or gullies that
are dirty gullies that need to be planted out. So
we continue to plant out those areas. And as I
said earlier, that has then allowed us to reinvest in
from a fencing perspective water supply to then be able
to actually farm what's remaining with that extra subdivision and

(05:29):
increase the output from those farms that are left.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Hey, Mark, just a couple of texts coming in here.
They're actually in a grumpy mood out there today. One's going,
I'm sorry, planting less than a thousand hectares this year,
and this text is saying that's like two large scale
dairy farms lost to food production. And another one says
the governments are full of bullshit, their words not mine.

(05:54):
Why are they selling their stock? And that's a fair argument.
If you're meant to represent the governments wishes, and the
government is wishing for less carbon farming slash forestry, surely
you should be leading the charge.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, And I would argue, Jommy, that we are leading
the charge because, as I've repeatedly said, we will continue
to far very good land class land from an animal's perspective,
and where there is that steep high country lane clan
class six or seven where it makes sense for it
to be.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Okay, So on that steep land class six or seven,
we'll talk about the land class seven. Is it realistic
that that land will ever be harvested for production forestry
because all the forestry people tell me they're not interested
in harvesting that land. They want the flatter stuff, the
better stuff, the quicker growing stuff, the stuff are near

(06:48):
the stuff that's nearer ports.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
So arantinders are said all of those lands that that
land that does get planted has as an intent of
forestry when it is planted, for that harvested. Equally, as
you know we have we have ten thousands plus of
land that's been put into Q two covenants where it
is more than natives and protected for the long term.
So they're probably slightly different. But where we are planting

(07:11):
that land, it is an intent that it's planted. From
a forest rey perspective, it will be harvested.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Hey, Mark Leslie, thanks for some of your time and
thanks for giving your response to some of the criticisms
that came your way, well came Palmer's way on yesterday's show.
Here's another one. The spin from Mark Leslie is unreal.
Two hundred hectares left and grass at among A Mingy.
They have two thousand hectares in grass right now, so

(07:38):
they're not they're not buying it.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Mark, Hey, and yep, I hear the view, but I'll
just reiterate we are looking at those integrated farms right across.
We know we're a big part of that community and
we continue to be a big part of that community.
We have two hundred of people that work in around
that area, so absolutely we know that we're part of
that community.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
You might have a few less in the future.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Now we continue. We were looking at opportunities for those
people to be employed across their other operations.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
All right, there we go. Mark Leslie, Chief Executive of
PAMU