October 27, 2025 • 5 mins
The gloves come off as we debate a capital gains tax with Labour’s trade spokesman.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You've already heard from Katie Millner on the Coast. We're
going there again. Yes, he's making a rare appearance in
his old electric Damien O'Connor list MP for the Coast
these days domiciled and Dunedin Damien. I know I'm going
to get a bite from you. But your capital gains
tax is, let's face it, are Clayton's capital gains tax,
the tax you have when you're not really having one.
(00:20):
What a week last effort that.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Was cure it, Jamie, I do you want more? I mean,
I know it's an interesting line to take from you.
I guess if you have invested, and no doubt you
have in four or five properties, it is really unproductive. Yes,
we need houses in our country, but actually it's not
a productive part of our economy. And so if you
(00:43):
make a capital gain, then you should pay some tax
on that because if you go out and work hard
day to day, you pay tax on that. So this
is about rebalancing where we should invest into the future.
And it's not retrospective. You know, we're people who have
buy to buy the you know the rules of the
day and the paradigm that we've had around a property
but that should change to create a more productive economy.
(01:06):
That's what we need to do.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
The trouble is you're only dipping your toes in there.
This is just a token effort, and to make things worse,
Damian O'Connor, you're going to spend the money giving people
like me and you a free doctors visit. We don't
need it. What a waste of money. Why don't you
target the health spending.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Back to the tax issue. If we'd done more, you
would have criticized us. This is a sensible step to
send a message that we need to encourage people to
invest in productive assets, and you know farming. For the
most part, farm assets are productive YUS. There has been
speculation on capital gains, but mostly the price you pay
(01:46):
for a farm should be based on its productive returns.
That's certainly what I got told in the nineteen eighties
when we took the subsidies off. I think we've seen
a shift from that. But if we can get back
to that, that will be good invest in businesses where
we get some real real So I think we've got
the capital gains tax proposal about right at this point,
given that no one has been brave enough to do this.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, and I get that, Damien, but you're going to
generate next to nothing. Ogerall the boomers. The boomers have
already captured and banked all the capital gains.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Maybe, so you're saying we should have done it a
long time ago. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Let's cut to the chase here. You're just softening us up. Okay,
this is a very mild entry into a capital gains tax.
It might be enough not to put people off politically,
maybe get your voter in. God help us then of
the party and marrying the Greens are running the country
with you. This is just a forerunner of a much
harder capital gains tax, or worse, a wealth tax.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
If there's any any change, people will hit the chance
to vote on it. I'm sure, and I'm sure that
my boss will have told the country that let's come
back to under this government, we've basically got a country
that is unfair, right, it's unsustainable, unproductive, and we've got
to change it. And tax is the way that we
(03:04):
can make some adjustments there to head us in the
right direction.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Didn't the housing bubble rarely take off under you lot
under COVID when you gave exactly the wrong incentives and
messages to the economy.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So Jamie, were you and all people across business had
their hand out asking for more, and the national opposition
crying out for more to be given to business, for
wage subsidies, for business assistance. All of those billions of
dollars that people were quite happy to take and put
in their pockets, some of whom didn't need it, and
(03:40):
now complain about the fact that that money went around
in the economy and because there was a shortage of houses,
it pushed up prices. Yes, we know that they've pushed
it up. That hasn't helped, But actually a lot of
that money was demanded and called for by people who
had their hands out, sometimes did not needing it. Look,
COVID was a terrible situation. I don't think anyone would
(04:01):
have wished it upon the world or upon our economy.
We're moving on from that and making some changes to
ensure that actually we do get investment in the right areas.
We don't get the speculation that we've seen particular cross housing,
and that we make houses more affordable for young Kiwis Damien.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I wake up in the middle of the night in
a cold sweat worrying about what New Zealand and the
economy will be like if it's a party Marie and
the greenskit anywhere near the treasury benches. What can you
say to soothe my worries.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's a ridiculous thing. We'll stay awake, Jamie and worry
about other things. I'd suggest to you it might be
more about the Atlas Group and its effect through the
APT Party and some of it coming through New Zealand
first as well. New Zealand First seems to have now
made New Zealand last. It's happy to see things sold
off to anyone who wants to come in with a big,
fat checkbook. We run the risk of selling off our
(04:56):
economy under the coalition government at the moment, and all
all the components in it. And you had I went
to the EU thing there you had Minister what's saying,
come and invest in our economy. We've got some companies
here than monopolistic. He used that word monopolistic because and
it's a great place to invest. We've got to change
(05:16):
that to make sure that it's actually a more affordable
country for most people. And so we've got to deal
with the supermarkets. We've got to deal with the ol
tricity companies. We've got to deal with those monopoly players
to bring prices in the cost of living down.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
At least I'll get a some tan on adelaide if
you do one Daymien, because that's where I'll be spending
the next three years. Thank you very much, Thank you
very much for your time, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
If that's what you want to do, then good riddance
to you. There's certainly a lot thousands and thousands of
Kiwis leaving now because of their coalition government. So if
you're the only one that goes when we get in
and then we'll get.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Off, thanks for your time. Has always enjoyed the argument,
Hey you, Jamie,
You've already heard from Katie Millner on the Coast. We're
going there again. Yes, he's making a rare appearance in
his old electric Damien O'Connor list MP for the Coast
these days domiciled and Dunedin Damien. I know I'm going
to get a bite from you. But your capital gains
tax is, let's face it, are Clayton's capital gains tax,
the tax you have when you're not really having one.
(00:20):
What a week last effort that.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Was cure it, Jamie, I do you want more? I mean,
I know it's an interesting line to take from you.
I guess if you have invested, and no doubt you
have in four or five properties, it is really unproductive. Yes,
we need houses in our country, but actually it's not
a productive part of our economy. And so if you
(00:43):
make a capital gain, then you should pay some tax
on that because if you go out and work hard
day to day, you pay tax on that. So this
is about rebalancing where we should invest into the future.
And it's not retrospective. You know, we're people who have
buy to buy the you know the rules of the
day and the paradigm that we've had around a property
but that should change to create a more productive economy.
(01:06):
That's what we need to do.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
The trouble is you're only dipping your toes in there.
This is just a token effort, and to make things worse,
Damian O'Connor, you're going to spend the money giving people
like me and you a free doctors visit. We don't
need it. What a waste of money. Why don't you
target the health spending.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Back to the tax issue. If we'd done more, you
would have criticized us. This is a sensible step to
send a message that we need to encourage people to
invest in productive assets, and you know farming. For the
most part, farm assets are productive YUS. There has been
speculation on capital gains, but mostly the price you pay
(01:46):
for a farm should be based on its productive returns.
That's certainly what I got told in the nineteen eighties
when we took the subsidies off. I think we've seen
a shift from that. But if we can get back
to that, that will be good invest in businesses where
we get some real real So I think we've got
the capital gains tax proposal about right at this point,
given that no one has been brave enough to do this.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, and I get that, Damien, but you're going to
generate next to nothing. Ogerall the boomers. The boomers have
already captured and banked all the capital gains.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Maybe, so you're saying we should have done it a
long time ago. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Let's cut to the chase here. You're just softening us up. Okay,
this is a very mild entry into a capital gains tax.
It might be enough not to put people off politically,
maybe get your voter in. God help us then of
the party and marrying the Greens are running the country
with you. This is just a forerunner of a much
harder capital gains tax, or worse, a wealth tax.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
If there's any any change, people will hit the chance
to vote on it. I'm sure, and I'm sure that
my boss will have told the country that let's come
back to under this government, we've basically got a country
that is unfair, right, it's unsustainable, unproductive, and we've got
to change it. And tax is the way that we
(03:04):
can make some adjustments there to head us in the
right direction.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Didn't the housing bubble rarely take off under you lot
under COVID when you gave exactly the wrong incentives and
messages to the economy.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So Jamie, were you and all people across business had
their hand out asking for more, and the national opposition
crying out for more to be given to business, for
wage subsidies, for business assistance. All of those billions of
dollars that people were quite happy to take and put
in their pockets, some of whom didn't need it, and
(03:40):
now complain about the fact that that money went around
in the economy and because there was a shortage of houses,
it pushed up prices. Yes, we know that they've pushed
it up. That hasn't helped, But actually a lot of
that money was demanded and called for by people who
had their hands out, sometimes did not needing it. Look,
COVID was a terrible situation. I don't think anyone would
(04:01):
have wished it upon the world or upon our economy.
We're moving on from that and making some changes to
ensure that actually we do get investment in the right areas.
We don't get the speculation that we've seen particular cross housing,
and that we make houses more affordable for young Kiwis Damien.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I wake up in the middle of the night in
a cold sweat worrying about what New Zealand and the
economy will be like if it's a party Marie and
the greenskit anywhere near the treasury benches. What can you
say to soothe my worries.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's a ridiculous thing. We'll stay awake, Jamie and worry
about other things. I'd suggest to you it might be
more about the Atlas Group and its effect through the
APT Party and some of it coming through New Zealand
first as well. New Zealand First seems to have now
made New Zealand last. It's happy to see things sold
off to anyone who wants to come in with a big,
fat checkbook. We run the risk of selling off our
(04:56):
economy under the coalition government at the moment, and all
all the components in it. And you had I went
to the EU thing there you had Minister what's saying,
come and invest in our economy. We've got some companies
here than monopolistic. He used that word monopolistic because and
it's a great place to invest. We've got to change
(05:16):
that to make sure that it's actually a more affordable
country for most people. And so we've got to deal
with the supermarkets. We've got to deal with the ol
tricity companies. We've got to deal with those monopoly players
to bring prices in the cost of living down.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
At least I'll get a some tan on adelaide if
you do one Daymien, because that's where I'll be spending
the next three years. Thank you very much, Thank you
very much for your time, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
If that's what you want to do, then good riddance
to you. There's certainly a lot thousands and thousands of
Kiwis leaving now because of their coalition government. So if
you're the only one that goes when we get in
and then we'll get.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Off, thanks for your time. Has always enjoyed the argument,
Hey you, Jamie,
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