July 6, 2025 • 38 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Hugh Jackson, Antonia Watson, Stuart Nash, and Phil Duncan.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Catch all the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie McKay. Thanks to Brent, You're specialist in
John Deer construction equipment. Let him pay out of Friday,
Get around with the bars, let him go to the
woods and Nicole paint it hopcome.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Chase, let him bull for a small town girl.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Let everything geta New Zealand. Welcome to the Country. After
a wee bit of a false start, it's been a
heavy weekend here in Dunedin, test weekend. Perhaps I'm not
quite on the game, although I need to be. Today.
I'm Jamie mckaye. This is the Country, brought to you
by Rabobank. No, they bring you the Saturday Morning Show.
Let's try that again by Brandt now crowned on Saturday
(00:54):
Night and the Macargo or Hugh Jackson FMG twenty twenty
five Young Farmer of the Year to kick off the show.
Also in town for the rugby was Antonia Watson, chief
executive of a n Z. It's our biggest bank, certainly
the bank with the biggest rural portfolio. Antonia is going
to wander into the studio shortly. I can see her
(01:16):
out the window and we're going to ask her a
farmer still paying too high a margin for their rural lending.
And if you've got any questions for Antonia, please feel
free to text them in to five double nine. If
you've got a question for the chief executive of our
biggest bank. Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister of Forestry, is
(01:39):
going to have his say on carbon farming and I
think he's come up with a solution. I think he
has to keep everybody happy. We'll see about that in
Phil Duncan on the weather. We are in the depths
of winter. What's the next week going to be like?
But let's kick off the show hopefully. On the other end,
the Young Farmer of the Year got the knowledge on
(02:00):
Saturday night. Hugh Jackson, Congratulations, great to catch up with
you again after meeting you in person at Field Days.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Thanks Jamie, awesome to be here and yeah thanks having
me on.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Second time to the batter's box for you. You I
think was at third and twenty twenty three when you
were representing Otago Southland, so it must have been sweet
to have the victory back in the in the province
of a region you'd represented it.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Yeah, sure was. You're right there, Jammie year third in
twenty twenty three when Emma Pool took it out and
did a great job. It was awesome to get back
down to Southland and king qualify for Grand Final. It
was great to be amongst the heap of friends and
family down there that I've made. I made in twenty
(02:51):
twenty when I first went down there in the grad
Programatherians ed and enjoyed it so much I turned off
my tongue with Sterians zed to do a bit of
very far with Salm and Jenner Hodge also that dream
come true really to get it done and get it
done in Southern So.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
The reason for going dairy farming because you are a
sheep and beef farmer at Ragland or Tiaco on the
west coast of the North Island, there was the reason
just to expand your knowledge with a view to being
the young farmer of the year at some stage.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, it was definitely to expand my knowledge. If I'm
being brutally honest, I thought I'd go real banking after
UNI applied for a few grad programs but couldn't make
the cut there. So de signed that I would have
a crack at the Darien did grad program, and I'm
really lucky that I managed to get into that. If
(03:44):
I said to them, I wasn't too worried where I went,
and they ended up placing me in and Vocaygo. I
knew Martha Broughton who was down there at Mountaininton Station
at the time to a university, but I didn't know
anyone else in Southend, so it was a real adventure
going down there and love my time. Got involved with
former Young Farmer's Club, which is right up there as
(04:06):
far as the best clubs in his land, I believe,
and got into the squash blab and farbagate and created
a network really quickly that I still tourish today. So
that's how I ended up getting involved in the dairy
industry for a start and have come home since then
due to the old man needing a hand and it
(04:28):
being time to have a crack back here.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well the old man, as you put it, your father
to be more polite. He was. I think your mum
and dad were both down on him for cargo and Michelle,
my producer, was down there and she met them and said,
they were naturally very very proud of what you'd achieved.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, and very fortunate to have their support and I
loved growing up. Wouldn't be where I was today if
it wasn't for them, So big, big thanks for them
and forbecking me with a way and being rock shop
through all the ups and downs that life throws at you.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Talk to me or talk me through Thursday, Friday and
Saturday of last week. How close did it get at
the end because you were the one winner. Gareth mccirtche
another outstanding young man he was in second place, and
George Leatham he finished third.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, so it was a big full on three days
as it always is at Grand Final. Thursday we had
our technical day where we were challenged over four or
so challenges. We had an exam, but at the same
time as doing the exam, we would come in and
out of the room to go to three other challenges,
one woman being an interview, the other one an HR
(05:44):
challenge in force, one being a presentation, and the presentation
we had to give was on a business case sort
of business plan that we put together in the lead
up to Grand Final. We had six weeks to do
a written assignment basically and then got marked on that
and then the presentation side of it. So that was
(06:06):
technical day and then practical day and the Friday was
at Winton. An amazing day there, sunny, beautiful, beautiful sunny day,
nice cold start. We were challenged with the rains down
module around winter cropping. Washbock had us setting up a
tent and doing a few other things with their products.
There was a sharing module, had to share a couple
(06:27):
of sheep class and we'll press a bail, put some
du duel tires on a track.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
There.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
At the FMG module Milwaukee had us using some of
their tools, putting them together, setting them up and then
cutting lengths of steel without any measuring tape. So we
had to do our best by with our eye New
hilland had us boiling bailing some hay, and there was
also a fishery fisheries module there as well to throw
(06:56):
a bit of a spinner in the works.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
That must have been fun bailing about of haynd so
Elfland on early July.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, it was. It was a bit of fun.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I learned a lot of that module because I've never
done any bailing before and it was it was a
real experience. But hats off to them they helped step
me through the bits that I wasn't confident on obviously,
I would have taken off plenty of marks of that,
but it's all part of the competition being able to
learn and grow your skills. So they did a great
job there. And then we're onto the farmland as well,
(07:26):
so we had to build a fencing and hook up
a trough, put some drains in the ground with a
little digger, swing a gate obviously, and class some riperian plants,
and even had to do some butchery, cut up half
of lamb and show how we would take a bit
of velvet off a stagg as well. And then finally
(07:47):
they hit the head. They got us building a bridge
for that. That was a really cool challenge and hats
off the committee for organizing that. One of the best
head heads I've seen. We also had on the two
wheeler motorbike to get round on the day, and once
we built the bridge we had to get across it
with a two wheeler motorbike. And then the finally the
(08:09):
race off, which involved some tasks like filltting a blue cord,
shocking some parlor, cutting a rugby ball with an angle
grind out of some steel, providing some first aid to
a patient. We had to deal with taking a dog
kennel out of its feat of drum and panting some flats.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
How did you get all all through that on one day?
I don't know anyhow, Let's just move on the final,
the buzz around, which I guess decided the competition. How
close was that? Oh?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Very close.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I was the most uncomfortable period or time for me
after that buzz around, because Gareth and George hads Off
them had a great round, especially Gareth, and he was
sitting further down the leaderboard to me at that stage
we got given the rankings but not the scores. Sea
didn't know how close it was, and he definitely got
the jump on me there, so I was sitting there
(08:59):
thinking he might have got it at the end there,
so pushed us all the way. But Minister En on top,
so really really happy about that.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Well, Hugh Jackson, congratulations, I'm so pleased that you got
through us. I said, it was great to meet you
at the field days and no doubt our paths will
cross regularly in the coming twelve months as you serve
your TENU or your one year as the FMG Young
Farmer of the Year. Congrats, thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Damian.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
You look forward to catch you up again.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Good man Hugh Jackson, outstanding young man, the young farmer
of the year. Right, are you with the country? We're
going country today. This is I think it's Jason L. Dean.
I'll check with Michelle, she said, loaded up some country
songs for me for good country boys. Seven of them finalists,
Grand finalists. Over the weekend, of course, we had a
(09:49):
rugby test here in Dunedin. Someone who was down for
the test was the chief executive of the A n
Z Bank, Antonia Watson. She's about to wander into the
studio and we're going to ask her a few questions.
If you've got any questions for Antonio or for the
banking industry, drop us a text on five double O nine.
(10:09):
We'll be back after the break. Who someone he's now around.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And little bit.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Go'll beer on Friday night appartees a figures welcome back
to the country twenty after twelve joining us in the studio.
Chief Executive of the A and Z Bank, Antonio Watson.
I'm right in saying that's the biggest bank in the country, right,
you're right, yep. And also the bank with the biggest
(10:42):
rural portfolio, because back in the day the rural bank
combined or got taken over by the National Bank and
then National Bank and a in z Merge. So you've
still got the biggest rural book.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
We do, indeed the biggest, biggest amount of leaning and
by far the biggest number of customers.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, okay, Now, last time we chated, I asked you,
and I've been told by Tarnia Shall that I've got
to play nice today. But I did ask you whether
you not you personally the A and Z, but whether
the banks were ripping or not ripping the farmers off,
but perhaps profiteering by charging farmers and business people too
much of a margin, especially on their overdraft rates.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
So we I would say, no, we're absolutely not ripping
off our customers. We do charge a little bit more
to business and agricultural lending because they're more risky and
we therefore have to hold higher capital. But the numbers aren't.
We actually put them in our market study and our
submission to the Finance and Expension to Select Committee in
the month of December, we were farmers were paying about
(11:42):
fifty basis points on average more than a homeowner for
a fixed rate, and they were playing less for a
floating weight.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Any relevance to the arguments that farmers should get a
borrowing rate the same as residential I mean most of
them have got equity in excess and when you won't
lend it to them. I mean most of them have
at least fifty percent equity, unlike house owners, so you
could always say the bank's always going to get their
pound of flesh even if the you know, if the
(12:13):
business goes bottom up.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
I guess the question i'd ask is do we want
the business to go bottom up and for us to
sell the farm? And I would say absolutely no to
that one. At farming in general, the reason there is
more risk, there's more capital held from a farming owners
because they're more risky, and that's to do with things
like if you think about recent times when we've had
very low lower milk prices, high on farm inflation, that
(12:37):
impacts every single farmer where the impacts, you know, maybe
the risk of disease, whereas householders that our housing lending
is much more individual to the particularly particular owner of
the house.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
We've got an OCR announcement on Wednesday, I see your
chief executive, Chief executive, you're the chief executive. Maybe she
wants to be a Sharon Zoler your chief economist. She's
picking a drop in the OCR, but some economists are disagreeing.
And I put it to you, Antonia, and you know
a lot more about banking than me and the economy.
But it would be a real negative if the OCR
(13:11):
is not dropped by twenty five basis points on Wednesday,
because the economy is just stalled at the moment.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I think that the economy, there's just so much uncertainty
out there, and when you look at the picks for
the OCR, that's just another area that's uncertain and that
is not good for business.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
It's not good for farmers.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
It'd be nice to see some of these green shoots
that have been coming through, just give people a little
bit more confidence to invest, to spend more. But no,
the uncertainty's extreme, I think.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
And I note that Sharon Zohna is picking another two cuts,
if over and above what we might get on Wednesday.
She's picking the OCR to eventually drop to two point
five percent? Is she being ambitious that I'm.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
An accountant, not an economist, So I'm going to leave
the expertise to her and her colleagues. But I know that,
as I said, even that's an uncertain pick. At the moment,
she's probably got it more penciled in than she did
a couple of months ago.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Let's touch on another couple of subjects, because you and
I have got a I guess full disclosure here. We
had dinner with some friends last night, so we were
chewing the fat over some of the issues of the
nation at the moment. So you came out a while
ago and you were a proponent for a capital gains tax.
You were swimming against the tide or webit there in
(14:29):
terms of I guess popular opinion. But we do need
in this country, if we're not going to go broke,
we need to broaden the tax base, don't we.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
I wouldn't say as a proponent, I would say I
was a reluctant if you look across the tax base
and the different ways that people earn. I was a
proponent for looking at that, taking a step back, looking
at that from a fairness point of view. And I
don't think it's just capital gains, it's retirement retirement income,
retirement savings. As I think we could take a step
(15:01):
back and look at the whole thing because we have
got a significantly aging population and there's a ticking time
bomb sitting there.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
So capital gains would be a much better option than
a wealth tax in my opinion.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
Yes, that's one of the reasons I talked about it.
Wealth taxes tend to be on unrealized earnings, so you'd
have to you know, if you had something like a farm,
you'd have to do what sell part of your farm
to pay the portion for the wealth tax.
Speaker 7 (15:25):
I think that'd be pretty difficult.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And last night over dinner, we were discussing because there
was about three or four boomers around the table. The
rest were Generation X. Now, see the boomers, we're the
lucky generation. Even if a capital gains tax comes in,
We've locked in all of our gains. Is a capital
gains tax going to penalize Generation X or Michell's pointing
at itself, the millennials, even Gen Z.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
That's why we have to take a far more holistic
view than just thinking about one tax for another. We
actually have to step back and think about the changing
demographics of our population and what makes sense in terms
of future proofing our tax base.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Age of visual eligibility for national super I'm hot on
this one because I'm a pensioner. Now. It should be
sixty seven.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
As I said, it's a ticking time. Something has to
be done.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Or in twenty fifty, well, I think it's every two
working age New Zealanders will be supporting every one pensioner.
So we have to do something. Raising the age of
something could be something, means testing could be something. But
again it's one of those things. I think we need
some sort of cross party agreement to step back and
actually just think about the options and have a conversation
with the country about it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Do you think national super should be a universal benefit
because a lot of people will say, look, I've worked
all my life, I've paid all my taxes. It's an
entitlement I'm due to. Why reward people who have not
got off their backside and done anything.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
The sad thing about saying you've worked all your life
is that you weren't saving for that benefit. It's the
current taxpayers who are paying for it. And when we
get to the position where there's two taxpayers for everyone supernuitant,
I don't think it's even possible that they can pay
for it.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
What would be a fair way of means testing because effectively,
and we discussed this again last night, National super as
it stands at the moment is sort of means tested
because it's paid to you at the top marginal rate
of tax. So if you're earning, for instance, more than
one hundred and eighty grand, you're paying thirty nine cents
in the dollar, So you're only getting sixty one cents
(17:27):
out of you know, in the dollar, whereas someone who
has no other incomes getting the full amount.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Yeah, absolutely agree. And again there's all sorts of ways
you can look at our taxpace. You can look at
whether we should have foreign investment fund impacting overseas dividends
rather than the income tax that we get here. So
I think that's why I wouldn't want to put any
specific policy out there. I think it's something that should
be looked at very holistically.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I did ask for some questions to be texted, and
here's one that's maybe a wee bit tongue in Cheeck Antonia,
why are there so many females running banks? There has
been a purge of fifty plus year plus year old
men and the big four banks de I gone mad.
And I think that's slightly our tongue in cheek because
I feel sorry for this stale, pale, middle aged male.
(18:13):
We are becoming a marginalized group.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
I think if you're stale, I would be questioning about
why you're stale. But paler mail, there's absolutely no marginalization
going on there. I've just had to wipe myself off
the floor on that comment. I mean, fifty percent of
the population of women. I think we've got five out
of the twenty seven banks in New Zealand that are
run by women, so I'm not quite sure that that
(18:36):
brings true quite yet.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
All right, okay, what did you make of the test?
Did you enjoy your weekend down here?
Speaker 7 (18:42):
I love my weekend down here, coming.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Back to your old university haunt.
Speaker 7 (18:45):
Yes, yes, a very proud alumnio of Ottaga University.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Okay, great for you to take some time out. Do
you realize every day when we do the show and Tony,
we're looking we're in the Westpac building, which is ironical.
We're looking straight across George Street to the A and Z.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
We're in Bank Corner or something, aren't we?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yes, we are on Bank Corner. Thank you very much
for coming in on the show today. Antonio Watson, chief
executive of the a in Z Bank. My god, it's
hot in here, Michelle. You need to do something with
that heat pump. We're going to take a break on
the other side of it. We'll have the latest and
rural news and sports news before the end of the hour.
(19:26):
Stuart Nash, former Minister of Forestry, on carbon farming, and
Phil Duncan on the weather. Big Green Tractor Jason Aldan, Yeah,
(19:49):
we're sponsored by a Big Green tractor. The team at
Brant great to catch up with Stu Drew and his
lovely wife Claire over the weekend. Right, I can't get
Antonio Watson out of the studio. She's demanding, demanding more
time to tell to tell me about all the young
farmers you're putting into farms.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yeah. I wasn't in Icago last week and one of
our bankers came up to me and very proudly said
that in the last two years they've put twenty nine
people into first farms in Southland.
Speaker 7 (20:22):
Only that remarkable.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think that's remarkably high. That would if you were
to extrapolate that out around the country, that would be
hundreds of them.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
More dairy than sheep and beef, but something like sixty
nine percent dairy the rest of sheep and beef, so
a bit of a mixture there. Different retiring farmers, succession planning,
sheer milkers kept coming to own the farm, so I
think it's I was astonished.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And really, well, well, they're not cheap things to get into,
are they Absolutely not? Yeah, not like your first home
in Bewcluther. I shouldn't say that, should I, Michelle, I
used to live in Gore. Probably get very good value
for a for a house in Balcluth Gore for that matter. Hey, Antonia, look,
thanks for coming in. I'll get you a shamele splug.
And you keep lending money to those young farmers people
(21:08):
like there's a young guy called Hugh Jackson. If he
rings you up, lend him some money. He is the
twenty twenty five Young Farmer of the Year and he'd
be a good bet. There we go, Antonia Watson. We're
going to swap Mike's now and get Michelle and with
the latest and rural news.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
The country's world news with cub Cadet, New Zealand's leading
right on lawnlower brand visit steel Ford dot cotians him
for your local stockist, right.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
And I told you I had a bit of a
surprise to you with heraw news tonight.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Ah yeah, what's the surprise.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
So some of the results that happened. Of course, we
had the big winner and the weekend down and the
cargoes down there at the Young Farmer Grand Final. Fantastic
event run by the local clubs down there by the way,
absolutely amazing people all around New Zealand were attending. But
one of the big winners on the night, Jamie, was
actually the Belfer Young Farmer Club who won Club of
the Year. Which are are they not one of the
(22:01):
best places in Southland?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Oh no, I'm well that Belf is right beside the
capital of Northern south and rivers Riversdale hasn't got a
Young Farmer club, but all the Riversdale young farmers go
up the road to bell.
Speaker 8 (22:13):
Right there claiming it. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
No, they're very strong. I know they're a very strong
club and have been like even when I was a
young farmer. And the other one, and Hugh mentioned them,
is Thornberry. You know, really strong clubs down there. And
when you look at the winners of the Young Farmers
or the Young Farmer Grand Final. Over the years, there's
been a hell of a lot come from Otago Southland.
Speaker 8 (22:33):
Oh, it's amazing the club's down there, absolutely incredible. Of
course Otargo Southland also took off the took out the
region off this year. Incredible work by them and they
do some amazing stuff in the community. I mean, if
you're into farmer, you're young, you're under thirty two, definitely
go find your local Young Farmer club and join up
because you get to learn a lot of skills with them.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
You'll be a bit long in the tooth for a
young Farmer club, now, aren't you Michelle?
Speaker 8 (22:54):
Unfortunately, but I did see quite a few of my
friends there from back in the day.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Were you a young farmer back in the day in
bell I wasn't.
Speaker 8 (23:00):
They tried to get me involved. One of my friends
was quite high up in the club out at Clinton.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, there's another great Young Farmer club. Anyhow, there's Michelle
with Rural News. What a great weekend it was for
the young farmer movement and well done Hugh Jackson and
the other six blokes as well.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Sport with an Avco Kiwi to the bone since nineteen
oh four.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
It looks like. It was a good weekend for New
Zealand golfer Kazuma Kabori. He believes that on a rare occasion,
a lack of preparation has helped him excel. With the
career best third at the latest European Tour event in Munich.
He's moved to forty fourth in the season standings. Are
the top one hundred and ten players secure a spot
(23:41):
in twenty twenty six. Kabori says the lack of a
practice round paid dividends. And finally, Scott Dixon has extended
his streak of wins in consecutive IndyCar seasons to twenty one.
Isn't that an amazing streak. He's capitalized on a slip
up by Ali Palau with six laps remaining to claim
(24:03):
the checkered flag in Ohio. Shane van Gisburg van Gisbergen's
why have they got an apostrophe? Yes, in there. Shane
van Gisbergen secured a second win from three attempts at
a disrupted NASCAR street race in Chicago. And that is
(24:23):
your rural news, Yes.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Michelle, I just have a little bit of other sports
news here. Jamie with a questrian so it's just been
announced the New Zealand a questrian team have won the
Nation's Cup for just the second time over in Germany.
We'll have that story up on our herald page to
the Country dot co dot nz.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
If you want to read more, and no doubt it'll
be on the news bulletin at the top of the
hour here on news Talk said, Okay, after the break
a Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister of Forestry, his thoughts
on carbon farming. Plus I'm also going to ask him
about his rumored candidacy for New Zealand First and whether
he's been shoulder tapped Winston. He's up next.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Gold Beer on Friday night.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Stuart Nash, former Minister of Forestry under the Ardurn government,
knows a thing or two about forestry obviously, so let's
discuss that and whether he's going to stand for New
Zealand First and the next election. Stewell, come back to
that one. Great to have you back on the wireless.
I know you love it being on the radio. Are
you really missing Parliament?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I'm not really. I'm missing a little bit of it,
but but keeping in mind, no forest was a passion
of mine before I got into politics. I mean, I've
got a master's degreen forestry science. I worked in forestry
in Japan and I also worked for Fletcher challenging Carter Holks.
I was in that kind of unique position where I
came into the portfolio with already a significant knowledge of
the industry. So you know, you can really hit the
ground running, you can develop ideas, you can talk to
(25:48):
people who know the industry really well, and you can
talk to them from a position of credibility. Am I
missing politics a little bit? I mean I'm a little
bit disenfranchised, well disappointed, I'll be honest with you, with
the two main parties at the moment, and I don't
think i'm you know, I'm on my own there. If
you look at polling, I think about you know, they're combined,
they get about sixty five percent, so about thirty five
(26:09):
percent the Kiwis are saying, we don't really buy into
the vision or lack thereof, of labor and national So
it's an interesting time in politics at the moment, no
doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
We'll come back to your candidacy for New Zealand. First.
I'm flying a kite test totally really yeah, Okay, you're
in a really good position to talk about carbon forestry.
And I think I heard you last week talking to
Kerry Wadham on News Talk ZB about this very same subject.
How badly have we got this wrong or have we
got it wrong?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, we have got it wrong at the moment. Now,
now let me view one example. Okay, So we often
hear about what happened during Gabrielle, and people forget before
Cyclone Gabrielle up the East coast, there was also Cyclone Hale,
and Cyclone Hale struck in January I created a whole
lot of havoc, and Gabrielle just really finished it off.
But if you drive the Naked Tapa Road, that is
(26:58):
some of the steepest stuff you know around that part
of the part of the island, and it is not
mature native, but it's certainly regenerating. So you know it's
been under forest cover, let's say sixty eighty years. No
slips in there? Whatso are? There was one, I think,
but very few slips in there at all during Hale Gabrielle,
(27:19):
and yet that copped some of the most serious rainfores
had in this country for a long long time. My
point mate, is there is a way to transition uneconomic
land from beer land that was once economic under a
different regime into forestry and save a hell of a
lot of our hillsides. Now it's how you get there.
And you know, I had a plan underway, It was
(27:39):
well underway, and I think it's still very very relevant.
I tried to talk to the new Minister of Forestry,
who I get on with, but he's also the Ministry
of Trade, so he's incredibly busy at this point in time.
But there is a way to transition from uneconomic farmland
into forestry that allows people to make money, but most
importantly it stabilizes our health side and won't let to
(28:00):
some form of ecological disaster in eighty years time.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
So effectively, you plant some pine trees at what a
lower rate and then let the natives regenerate after that.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
You got it in one, mate. So so what you
don't do is you don't go to these steps, take
a step back. So so Ministry of Forestry figured there
was about you know, the gasmap whole countries. I figured
there's about a million hectares of land in this country
that is beer and is completely uneconomic from a farming perspective,
and they reckon there's about another million hectares of land
(28:31):
which is highly marginal from a farming perspective. Again, beer
that could be planted in forestry. So you know, you
know my stance on this, Jamie. I do not believe
that we should be planting up our productive land and
pine trees. Now, I just want to I want to
put that out there because I think that's a very
bad use of our land. Now back to your point,
what some of these carbon farmers had been doing is
(28:53):
high stock radiator on land that will never be harvested,
either because a it's too far from a poor or
a processing facility. It's just too steep and health and
safety rules mean you're never going to get a bloke
and a chainsaw cutting down trees from this really really
steep land. Or or you're just not going to be
allowed to because you know the expectations of our communities.
(29:14):
You don't put these huge, big wallers up on this
very very steep land. So what you do do is
you low stock. You say you can only claim carbon
credits off radiator for let's say thirty years, and low
stocking means that you'll get natives coming through, say thirty
or forty, it doesn't really matter, but put a time
frame on it. So there's got to be a transition.
(29:35):
You hold back some of the money that these people
would get from their carbon credits to make sure they're
doing the right thing. And then what you do is
you have regenerating natives come through and you can earn
carbon credits off the natives. Now, the reason I think
it's important that you can earn carbon credits off radiator
for the first thirty years is because this, for the
first time ever, provides an economic incentive to plant up
(29:59):
land which are just unproductive from a farming perspective.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It has merit. Yet the forestry people tell me, and
I had this debate with Peter Ware last week on
the show, former president of the forest Owners Association, they
don't want that the farmland way out the back of beyond.
They want flat to rolling stuff somewhere near report.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
No, well, I disagree with that. I mean that there's
got to be a certain percentage, right, I mean you've
got to allow You've got to allow some of the land,
which is you know which you can get harvested and
you can get haulers and into but the bottom line
is is this wholesale planting of farmland is not a
(30:41):
good use. And actually when I was briefly the Ministry
of Land Information and that's that, that's the minister that
controls Dervis's investment office. This is during COVID when David
Clark went mountain biking and I changed the rules because
and I don't know if they were changed back. I
sort of lost interest when the portfolio was given back.
But I said, you didn't in any farm you bought
(31:04):
you could sell off. You could. You could say we're
going to sell off some of this farmland. This is
farm sorry that we bought for foresture conversion. You can
sell off some of farmland. And we wanted to see
a full farm productivity report, which the wolves actually said
in the past. You know you've got a plant whole. Well,
it made it very difficult to subdivide the land, the forest, sorry,
(31:25):
the farm once you bought it. But but you know,
any farmer who's listening to this will know that on
the steep land, of course, there's going to be some
some flatter land that's just part and parcel of planting up.
You know, your gullies in your back country. But what
I'm talking about now is planting for carbon and planting
(31:47):
for land stabilization, planting for production. Again, I just do
not think it is the best use of our precious
farmland to be planted to get in trees for production.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Is do it that?
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Just before I let you go, rumors are circulating that
you're going to throw your hat in the ring for
New Zealand First, and I think for what it's worth,
you and Shane Jones would be a great one two
punch combination.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well look, Shane's a really good made of mine. But
if the truth be no, and I'm being honest with
your listeners here, I haven't had to sit down with Winston.
Winston hasn't called me and said Stu would love you
on the team. So there's been no discussions had between
Winston or any of his strategists or or other members
about me seeing from ZILLM First. I mean, I will
say that I think at this point in time, New
(32:32):
Zealand First are coming out with a lot of with
a pragmatic approach to the issues that will be deivling
in this country at the moment. As mentioned, I'm concerned
about national some of the stuff they're doing. I think
Labor has retreated and once again become an urban liberal party.
There are some very good MP's in there, but they
don't seem to stand for anything at the moment. To
(32:54):
party Mary skis the hell out of me, and I've
been open about that.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
I think the.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Greens have become the alliance party in drag. I've written
about this as well. But as mentioned, if you look
at all the political parties and parlms at the moment,
new Zeald First is probably closest to my political alignment.
But as mentioned, I've had no conversations with Winston. Winston
hasn't called me, so you know, at this point in time,
(33:17):
I'm Stuart nair s XMP.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Well, I'm doing a rugby club fundraiser and to Pooky
next month with Shane Jones, and I'll tap him on
the shoulder and say Stu Nash is keen to join
the team and I'll clip the ticket on a commission.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well, he may say, well, Stue Nash and I haven't
had that conversation, and and to be honest, I catch
up with Shane every now and again, and we're dealing
on an issue that is both of our hearts at
the moment. But what the conversations do not evolve around
is hey, Stu, here about you come and stand for
your zilmfare. So I haven't had that conversation with Shane.
I haven't had it with Winston. I haven't had it
with their chief of staff. But like I said, I
(33:55):
mean I got on really well with those guys. I
think they're good. The other thing also is I'm well
it mate that you know, the Nash family name is
heavily associated with labor. You know, I was a cabinet
minister for five and a half years. I was in
the bear pit for a long time. It can be brutal.
It is long hours, often for very little reward. And
by that I mean you know, you lose touch with
(34:17):
your friends and your family come second. So getting back
into politics certainly has its has its downside being there
done that. But as mentioned though, and I'd tell you
if it was otherwise, no one from zill And First
has approached me. And to be fair, I haven't given
wins in the call and say hey, can I come
and join you? So you know, the rumors are out there,
of course I've heard them, but I think it's mainly
(34:39):
because I have an immense amount of respect for Winston.
I think we're incredibly well served. He's our best, our
best Minister of Foreign Affairs for a long long time.
And Zilm first is sort of resonating with the other parties,
aren't watch.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The space, Stuart Nash, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Shecuse Jamie much appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That is eleve and away from one. We're going to
wrap the country up next with some of your feedback
and Phil Duncan love song. Yes, some of your feedback
on the country seven Away from one. Someone said if
you've got combine harvester by the Wurzels, Yes we have,
(35:17):
and where's the oh y is the twenty twenty five
Young Farmer of the Year Hugh Jackson or Hugh Jackman?
You said both? No I can. I don't know if
I did say both. Maybe I did, but jaded today,
So we're definitely going with Hugh Jackson, not Hugh Jackman,
the famous Ossie actor, singer and dancer. Michelle You've got
(35:39):
some a bit of feedback.
Speaker 8 (35:41):
There, Yeah, I do some commentary here. So where is
Stuart's planned to tackle the piece that he will help
flourish of course it's referring to Stuart Nash.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You just have yeah, yeah, And I think to be
fair to Stewart, he sees both sides of us, and
he's got a very good background in forestry.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Look, that's the big problem with spray and walk away
carbon farming. It's an echolo disaster on many fronts. That's
going to come back. Invite us on the ass big time,
and the next twenty years we're going to wrap it
with Phil Duncan.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Along years even alone.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Nestly wrapping the country with Phil Duncan from where the
watch Phil. The week we're about to head into the
second week of July, is that traditionally the coldest week
of the year.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Good afternoon, Very good question. Hello, Good to be with
you again. It depends on sort of how you look
at it, because if you look at geography training that
we had at school, or if you look at the records,
you would say that July and August of the two
coldest months. And yes, usually right now the middle of
July going into it anyway is the coldest time. But
I just wrote about this the other day in Farmers Weekly,
(36:45):
that the actual cold snaps you get in each region.
They vary every year on what time they arrived, and
it's all to do with where the high pressure is.
So sometimes we can get our coldest part of the
year in autumn before we even get into when to
get really heavy frost, and then all of a sudden
it's sort of windy and wet for the winter months
and doesn't get quite as cold. But to answer your
(37:06):
question very simply, as a nation, you would generally say
yes around about now it is okay. Locally it can
be very different.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Let's finish really quickly because there's a big high over
the country at the moment, settled for a few days.
Then another cold front coming in.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Is that it Yeah, there's a huge amount of low
pressure south of Australia, so that's going to be really
affecting our whether by the time we get to the
end of the week. So big cold front moves in
Thursday Friday, the usual stuff windy normally is followed by
windy westerlyes and a burst of rain. Those westerly are
going to be blowing through right into next week. Number
of lows passing through, so we're going into an unsettled phase.
(37:42):
But for some areas it may not feel like winter
because the western northerly winds can make it feel warmer.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Okay, Phil Duncan, thanks as always for your time, mate.
You enjoy the rest of your Monday. Phil Duncan. There
from weatherwatch dot co dot NZ, our leading weatherman in
this country. Unless I'm talking to Chris Brain. I've got
to walk a tight rope there with my weathermen. They're
all good to be perfectly honest. Right, that's us. We
are out of here. Congratulations to Hugh Jackson as opposed
(38:11):
to Jackman twenty twenty five FMG Young Farmer of the Year.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Peter Zan mccorney right. Catch all the latest from the land.
It's the Country podcast with Jamie McKay Thanks to Brent
starkest of the leading agriculture brands.
Catch all the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie McKay. Thanks to Brent, You're specialist in
John Deer construction equipment. Let him pay out of Friday,
Get around with the bars, let him go to the
woods and Nicole paint it hopcome.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Chase, let him bull for a small town girl.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Let everything geta New Zealand. Welcome to the Country. After
a wee bit of a false start, it's been a
heavy weekend here in Dunedin, test weekend. Perhaps I'm not
quite on the game, although I need to be. Today.
I'm Jamie mckaye. This is the Country, brought to you
by Rabobank. No, they bring you the Saturday Morning Show.
Let's try that again by Brandt now crowned on Saturday
(00:54):
Night and the Macargo or Hugh Jackson FMG twenty twenty
five Young Farmer of the Year to kick off the show.
Also in town for the rugby was Antonia Watson, chief
executive of a n Z. It's our biggest bank, certainly
the bank with the biggest rural portfolio. Antonia is going
to wander into the studio shortly. I can see her
(01:16):
out the window and we're going to ask her a
farmer still paying too high a margin for their rural lending.
And if you've got any questions for Antonia, please feel
free to text them in to five double nine. If
you've got a question for the chief executive of our
biggest bank. Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister of Forestry, is
(01:39):
going to have his say on carbon farming and I
think he's come up with a solution. I think he
has to keep everybody happy. We'll see about that in
Phil Duncan on the weather. We are in the depths
of winter. What's the next week going to be like?
But let's kick off the show hopefully. On the other end,
the Young Farmer of the Year got the knowledge on
(02:00):
Saturday night. Hugh Jackson, Congratulations, great to catch up with
you again after meeting you in person at Field Days.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Thanks Jamie, awesome to be here and yeah thanks having
me on.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Second time to the batter's box for you. You I
think was at third and twenty twenty three when you
were representing Otago Southland, so it must have been sweet
to have the victory back in the in the province
of a region you'd represented it.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Yeah, sure was. You're right there, Jammie year third in
twenty twenty three when Emma Pool took it out and
did a great job. It was awesome to get back
down to Southland and king qualify for Grand Final. It
was great to be amongst the heap of friends and
family down there that I've made. I made in twenty
(02:51):
twenty when I first went down there in the grad
Programatherians ed and enjoyed it so much I turned off
my tongue with Sterians zed to do a bit of
very far with Salm and Jenner Hodge also that dream
come true really to get it done and get it
done in Southern So.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
The reason for going dairy farming because you are a
sheep and beef farmer at Ragland or Tiaco on the
west coast of the North Island, there was the reason
just to expand your knowledge with a view to being
the young farmer of the year at some stage.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, it was definitely to expand my knowledge. If I'm
being brutally honest, I thought I'd go real banking after
UNI applied for a few grad programs but couldn't make
the cut there. So de signed that I would have
a crack at the Darien did grad program, and I'm
really lucky that I managed to get into that. If
(03:44):
I said to them, I wasn't too worried where I went,
and they ended up placing me in and Vocaygo. I
knew Martha Broughton who was down there at Mountaininton Station
at the time to a university, but I didn't know
anyone else in Southend, so it was a real adventure
going down there and love my time. Got involved with
former Young Farmer's Club, which is right up there as
(04:06):
far as the best clubs in his land, I believe,
and got into the squash blab and farbagate and created
a network really quickly that I still tourish today. So
that's how I ended up getting involved in the dairy
industry for a start and have come home since then
due to the old man needing a hand and it
(04:28):
being time to have a crack back here.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Well the old man, as you put it, your father
to be more polite. He was. I think your mum
and dad were both down on him for cargo and Michelle,
my producer, was down there and she met them and said,
they were naturally very very proud of what you'd achieved.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, and very fortunate to have their support and I
loved growing up. Wouldn't be where I was today if
it wasn't for them, So big, big thanks for them
and forbecking me with a way and being rock shop
through all the ups and downs that life throws at you.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Talk to me or talk me through Thursday, Friday and
Saturday of last week. How close did it get at
the end because you were the one winner. Gareth mccirtche
another outstanding young man he was in second place, and
George Leatham he finished third.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Yeah, so it was a big full on three days
as it always is at Grand Final. Thursday we had
our technical day where we were challenged over four or
so challenges. We had an exam, but at the same
time as doing the exam, we would come in and
out of the room to go to three other challenges,
one woman being an interview, the other one an HR
(05:44):
challenge in force, one being a presentation, and the presentation
we had to give was on a business case sort
of business plan that we put together in the lead
up to Grand Final. We had six weeks to do
a written assignment basically and then got marked on that
and then the presentation side of it. So that was
(06:06):
technical day and then practical day and the Friday was
at Winton. An amazing day there, sunny, beautiful, beautiful sunny day,
nice cold start. We were challenged with the rains down
module around winter cropping. Washbock had us setting up a
tent and doing a few other things with their products.
There was a sharing module, had to share a couple
(06:27):
of sheep class and we'll press a bail, put some
du duel tires on a track.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
There.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
At the FMG module Milwaukee had us using some of
their tools, putting them together, setting them up and then
cutting lengths of steel without any measuring tape. So we
had to do our best by with our eye New
hilland had us boiling bailing some hay, and there was
also a fishery fisheries module there as well to throw
(06:56):
a bit of a spinner in the works.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
That must have been fun bailing about of haynd so
Elfland on early July.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, it was. It was a bit of fun.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I learned a lot of that module because I've never
done any bailing before and it was it was a
real experience. But hats off to them they helped step
me through the bits that I wasn't confident on obviously,
I would have taken off plenty of marks of that,
but it's all part of the competition being able to
learn and grow your skills. So they did a great
job there. And then we're onto the farmland as well,
(07:26):
so we had to build a fencing and hook up
a trough, put some drains in the ground with a
little digger, swing a gate obviously, and class some riperian plants,
and even had to do some butchery, cut up half
of lamb and show how we would take a bit
of velvet off a stagg as well. And then finally
(07:47):
they hit the head. They got us building a bridge
for that. That was a really cool challenge and hats
off the committee for organizing that. One of the best
head heads I've seen. We also had on the two
wheeler motorbike to get round on the day, and once
we built the bridge we had to get across it
with a two wheeler motorbike. And then the finally the
(08:09):
race off, which involved some tasks like filltting a blue cord,
shocking some parlor, cutting a rugby ball with an angle
grind out of some steel, providing some first aid to
a patient. We had to deal with taking a dog
kennel out of its feat of drum and panting some flats.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
How did you get all all through that on one day?
I don't know anyhow, Let's just move on the final,
the buzz around, which I guess decided the competition. How
close was that? Oh?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Very close.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I was the most uncomfortable period or time for me
after that buzz around, because Gareth and George hads Off
them had a great round, especially Gareth, and he was
sitting further down the leaderboard to me at that stage
we got given the rankings but not the scores. Sea
didn't know how close it was, and he definitely got
the jump on me there, so I was sitting there
(08:59):
thinking he might have got it at the end there,
so pushed us all the way. But Minister En on top,
so really really happy about that.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Well, Hugh Jackson, congratulations, I'm so pleased that you got
through us. I said, it was great to meet you
at the field days and no doubt our paths will
cross regularly in the coming twelve months as you serve
your TENU or your one year as the FMG Young
Farmer of the Year. Congrats, thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Damian.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
You look forward to catch you up again.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Good man Hugh Jackson, outstanding young man, the young farmer
of the year. Right, are you with the country? We're
going country today. This is I think it's Jason L. Dean.
I'll check with Michelle, she said, loaded up some country
songs for me for good country boys. Seven of them finalists,
Grand finalists. Over the weekend, of course, we had a
(09:49):
rugby test here in Dunedin. Someone who was down for
the test was the chief executive of the A n
Z Bank, Antonia Watson. She's about to wander into the
studio and we're going to ask her a few questions.
If you've got any questions for Antonio or for the
banking industry, drop us a text on five double O nine.
(10:09):
We'll be back after the break. Who someone he's now around.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And little bit.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Go'll beer on Friday night appartees a figures welcome back
to the country twenty after twelve joining us in the studio.
Chief Executive of the A and Z Bank, Antonio Watson.
I'm right in saying that's the biggest bank in the country, right,
you're right, yep. And also the bank with the biggest
(10:42):
rural portfolio, because back in the day the rural bank
combined or got taken over by the National Bank and
then National Bank and a in z Merge. So you've
still got the biggest rural book.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
We do, indeed the biggest, biggest amount of leaning and
by far the biggest number of customers.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, okay, Now, last time we chated, I asked you,
and I've been told by Tarnia Shall that I've got
to play nice today. But I did ask you whether
you not you personally the A and Z, but whether
the banks were ripping or not ripping the farmers off,
but perhaps profiteering by charging farmers and business people too
much of a margin, especially on their overdraft rates.
Speaker 6 (11:18):
So we I would say, no, we're absolutely not ripping
off our customers. We do charge a little bit more
to business and agricultural lending because they're more risky and
we therefore have to hold higher capital. But the numbers aren't.
We actually put them in our market study and our
submission to the Finance and Expension to Select Committee in
the month of December, we were farmers were paying about
(11:42):
fifty basis points on average more than a homeowner for
a fixed rate, and they were playing less for a
floating weight.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Any relevance to the arguments that farmers should get a
borrowing rate the same as residential I mean most of
them have got equity in excess and when you won't
lend it to them. I mean most of them have
at least fifty percent equity, unlike house owners, so you
could always say the bank's always going to get their
pound of flesh even if the you know, if the
(12:13):
business goes bottom up.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
I guess the question i'd ask is do we want
the business to go bottom up and for us to
sell the farm? And I would say absolutely no to
that one. At farming in general, the reason there is
more risk, there's more capital held from a farming owners
because they're more risky, and that's to do with things
like if you think about recent times when we've had
very low lower milk prices, high on farm inflation, that
(12:37):
impacts every single farmer where the impacts, you know, maybe
the risk of disease, whereas householders that our housing lending
is much more individual to the particularly particular owner of
the house.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
We've got an OCR announcement on Wednesday, I see your
chief executive, Chief executive, you're the chief executive. Maybe she
wants to be a Sharon Zoler your chief economist. She's
picking a drop in the OCR, but some economists are disagreeing.
And I put it to you, Antonia, and you know
a lot more about banking than me and the economy.
But it would be a real negative if the OCR
(13:11):
is not dropped by twenty five basis points on Wednesday,
because the economy is just stalled at the moment.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
I think that the economy, there's just so much uncertainty
out there, and when you look at the picks for
the OCR, that's just another area that's uncertain and that
is not good for business.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
It's not good for farmers.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
It'd be nice to see some of these green shoots
that have been coming through, just give people a little
bit more confidence to invest, to spend more. But no,
the uncertainty's extreme, I think.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
And I note that Sharon Zohna is picking another two cuts,
if over and above what we might get on Wednesday.
She's picking the OCR to eventually drop to two point
five percent? Is she being ambitious that I'm.
Speaker 6 (13:54):
An accountant, not an economist, So I'm going to leave
the expertise to her and her colleagues. But I know that,
as I said, even that's an uncertain pick. At the moment,
she's probably got it more penciled in than she did
a couple of months ago.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Let's touch on another couple of subjects, because you and
I have got a I guess full disclosure here. We
had dinner with some friends last night, so we were
chewing the fat over some of the issues of the
nation at the moment. So you came out a while
ago and you were a proponent for a capital gains tax.
You were swimming against the tide or webit there in
(14:29):
terms of I guess popular opinion. But we do need
in this country, if we're not going to go broke,
we need to broaden the tax base, don't we.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
I wouldn't say as a proponent, I would say I
was a reluctant if you look across the tax base
and the different ways that people earn. I was a
proponent for looking at that, taking a step back, looking
at that from a fairness point of view. And I
don't think it's just capital gains, it's retirement retirement income,
retirement savings. As I think we could take a step
(15:01):
back and look at the whole thing because we have
got a significantly aging population and there's a ticking time
bomb sitting there.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
So capital gains would be a much better option than
a wealth tax in my opinion.
Speaker 6 (15:12):
Yes, that's one of the reasons I talked about it.
Wealth taxes tend to be on unrealized earnings, so you'd
have to you know, if you had something like a farm,
you'd have to do what sell part of your farm
to pay the portion for the wealth tax.
Speaker 7 (15:25):
I think that'd be pretty difficult.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
And last night over dinner, we were discussing because there
was about three or four boomers around the table. The
rest were Generation X. Now, see the boomers, we're the
lucky generation. Even if a capital gains tax comes in,
We've locked in all of our gains. Is a capital
gains tax going to penalize Generation X or Michell's pointing
at itself, the millennials, even Gen Z.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
That's why we have to take a far more holistic
view than just thinking about one tax for another. We
actually have to step back and think about the changing
demographics of our population and what makes sense in terms
of future proofing our tax base.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Age of visual eligibility for national super I'm hot on
this one because I'm a pensioner. Now. It should be
sixty seven.
Speaker 7 (16:14):
As I said, it's a ticking time. Something has to
be done.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Or in twenty fifty, well, I think it's every two
working age New Zealanders will be supporting every one pensioner.
So we have to do something. Raising the age of
something could be something, means testing could be something. But
again it's one of those things. I think we need
some sort of cross party agreement to step back and
actually just think about the options and have a conversation
with the country about it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Do you think national super should be a universal benefit
because a lot of people will say, look, I've worked
all my life, I've paid all my taxes. It's an
entitlement I'm due to. Why reward people who have not
got off their backside and done anything.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
The sad thing about saying you've worked all your life
is that you weren't saving for that benefit. It's the
current taxpayers who are paying for it. And when we
get to the position where there's two taxpayers for everyone supernuitant,
I don't think it's even possible that they can pay
for it.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
What would be a fair way of means testing because effectively,
and we discussed this again last night, National super as
it stands at the moment is sort of means tested
because it's paid to you at the top marginal rate
of tax. So if you're earning, for instance, more than
one hundred and eighty grand, you're paying thirty nine cents
in the dollar, So you're only getting sixty one cents
(17:27):
out of you know, in the dollar, whereas someone who
has no other incomes getting the full amount.
Speaker 6 (17:32):
Yeah, absolutely agree. And again there's all sorts of ways
you can look at our taxpace. You can look at
whether we should have foreign investment fund impacting overseas dividends
rather than the income tax that we get here. So
I think that's why I wouldn't want to put any
specific policy out there. I think it's something that should
be looked at very holistically.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I did ask for some questions to be texted, and
here's one that's maybe a wee bit tongue in Cheeck Antonia,
why are there so many females running banks? There has
been a purge of fifty plus year plus year old
men and the big four banks de I gone mad.
And I think that's slightly our tongue in cheek because
I feel sorry for this stale, pale, middle aged male.
(18:13):
We are becoming a marginalized group.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
I think if you're stale, I would be questioning about
why you're stale. But paler mail, there's absolutely no marginalization
going on there. I've just had to wipe myself off
the floor on that comment. I mean, fifty percent of
the population of women. I think we've got five out
of the twenty seven banks in New Zealand that are
run by women, so I'm not quite sure that that
(18:36):
brings true quite yet.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
All right, okay, what did you make of the test?
Did you enjoy your weekend down here?
Speaker 7 (18:42):
I love my weekend down here, coming.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Back to your old university haunt.
Speaker 7 (18:45):
Yes, yes, a very proud alumnio of Ottaga University.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Okay, great for you to take some time out. Do
you realize every day when we do the show and Tony,
we're looking we're in the Westpac building, which is ironical.
We're looking straight across George Street to the A and Z.
Speaker 7 (19:03):
We're in Bank Corner or something, aren't we?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yes, we are on Bank Corner. Thank you very much
for coming in on the show today. Antonio Watson, chief
executive of the a in Z Bank. My god, it's
hot in here, Michelle. You need to do something with
that heat pump. We're going to take a break on
the other side of it. We'll have the latest and
rural news and sports news before the end of the hour.
(19:26):
Stuart Nash, former Minister of Forestry, on carbon farming, and
Phil Duncan on the weather. Big Green Tractor Jason Aldan, Yeah,
(19:49):
we're sponsored by a Big Green tractor. The team at
Brant great to catch up with Stu Drew and his
lovely wife Claire over the weekend. Right, I can't get
Antonio Watson out of the studio. She's demanding, demanding more
time to tell to tell me about all the young
farmers you're putting into farms.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yeah. I wasn't in Icago last week and one of
our bankers came up to me and very proudly said
that in the last two years they've put twenty nine
people into first farms in Southland.
Speaker 7 (20:22):
Only that remarkable.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I think that's remarkably high. That would if you were
to extrapolate that out around the country, that would be
hundreds of them.
Speaker 7 (20:30):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 6 (20:31):
More dairy than sheep and beef, but something like sixty
nine percent dairy the rest of sheep and beef, so
a bit of a mixture there. Different retiring farmers, succession planning,
sheer milkers kept coming to own the farm, so I
think it's I was astonished.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And really, well, well, they're not cheap things to get into,
are they Absolutely not? Yeah, not like your first home
in Bewcluther. I shouldn't say that, should I, Michelle, I
used to live in Gore. Probably get very good value
for a for a house in Balcluth Gore for that matter. Hey, Antonia, look,
thanks for coming in. I'll get you a shamele splug.
And you keep lending money to those young farmers people
(21:08):
like there's a young guy called Hugh Jackson. If he
rings you up, lend him some money. He is the
twenty twenty five Young Farmer of the Year and he'd
be a good bet. There we go, Antonia Watson. We're
going to swap Mike's now and get Michelle and with
the latest and rural news.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
The country's world news with cub Cadet, New Zealand's leading
right on lawnlower brand visit steel Ford dot cotians him
for your local stockist, right.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
And I told you I had a bit of a
surprise to you with heraw news tonight.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Ah yeah, what's the surprise.
Speaker 8 (21:40):
So some of the results that happened. Of course, we
had the big winner and the weekend down and the
cargoes down there at the Young Farmer Grand Final. Fantastic
event run by the local clubs down there by the way,
absolutely amazing people all around New Zealand were attending. But
one of the big winners on the night, Jamie, was
actually the Belfer Young Farmer Club who won Club of
the Year. Which are are they not one of the
(22:01):
best places in Southland?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Oh no, I'm well that Belf is right beside the
capital of Northern south and rivers Riversdale hasn't got a
Young Farmer club, but all the Riversdale young farmers go
up the road to bell.
Speaker 8 (22:13):
Right there claiming it. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
No, they're very strong. I know they're a very strong
club and have been like even when I was a
young farmer. And the other one, and Hugh mentioned them,
is Thornberry. You know, really strong clubs down there. And
when you look at the winners of the Young Farmers
or the Young Farmer Grand Final. Over the years, there's
been a hell of a lot come from Otago Southland.
Speaker 8 (22:33):
Oh, it's amazing the club's down there, absolutely incredible. Of
course Otargo Southland also took off the took out the
region off this year. Incredible work by them and they
do some amazing stuff in the community. I mean, if
you're into farmer, you're young, you're under thirty two, definitely
go find your local Young Farmer club and join up
because you get to learn a lot of skills with them.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
You'll be a bit long in the tooth for a
young Farmer club, now, aren't you Michelle?
Speaker 8 (22:54):
Unfortunately, but I did see quite a few of my
friends there from back in the day.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Were you a young farmer back in the day in
bell I wasn't.
Speaker 8 (23:00):
They tried to get me involved. One of my friends
was quite high up in the club out at Clinton.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, there's another great Young Farmer club. Anyhow, there's Michelle
with Rural News. What a great weekend it was for
the young farmer movement and well done Hugh Jackson and
the other six blokes as well.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Sport with an Avco Kiwi to the bone since nineteen
oh four.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
It looks like. It was a good weekend for New
Zealand golfer Kazuma Kabori. He believes that on a rare occasion,
a lack of preparation has helped him excel. With the
career best third at the latest European Tour event in Munich.
He's moved to forty fourth in the season standings. Are
the top one hundred and ten players secure a spot
(23:41):
in twenty twenty six. Kabori says the lack of a
practice round paid dividends. And finally, Scott Dixon has extended
his streak of wins in consecutive IndyCar seasons to twenty one.
Isn't that an amazing streak. He's capitalized on a slip
up by Ali Palau with six laps remaining to claim
(24:03):
the checkered flag in Ohio. Shane van Gisburg van Gisbergen's
why have they got an apostrophe? Yes, in there. Shane
van Gisbergen secured a second win from three attempts at
a disrupted NASCAR street race in Chicago. And that is
(24:23):
your rural news, Yes.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
Michelle, I just have a little bit of other sports
news here. Jamie with a questrian so it's just been
announced the New Zealand a questrian team have won the
Nation's Cup for just the second time over in Germany.
We'll have that story up on our herald page to
the Country dot co dot nz.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
If you want to read more, and no doubt it'll
be on the news bulletin at the top of the
hour here on news Talk said, Okay, after the break
a Stuart Nash, former Labor Minister of Forestry, his thoughts
on carbon farming. Plus I'm also going to ask him
about his rumored candidacy for New Zealand First and whether
he's been shoulder tapped Winston. He's up next.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Gold Beer on Friday night.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Stuart Nash, former Minister of Forestry under the Ardurn government,
knows a thing or two about forestry obviously, so let's
discuss that and whether he's going to stand for New
Zealand First and the next election. Stewell, come back to
that one. Great to have you back on the wireless.
I know you love it being on the radio. Are
you really missing Parliament?
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I'm not really. I'm missing a little bit of it,
but but keeping in mind, no forest was a passion
of mine before I got into politics. I mean, I've
got a master's degreen forestry science. I worked in forestry
in Japan and I also worked for Fletcher challenging Carter Holks.
I was in that kind of unique position where I
came into the portfolio with already a significant knowledge of
the industry. So you know, you can really hit the
ground running, you can develop ideas, you can talk to
(25:48):
people who know the industry really well, and you can
talk to them from a position of credibility. Am I
missing politics a little bit? I mean I'm a little
bit disenfranchised, well disappointed, I'll be honest with you, with
the two main parties at the moment, and I don't
think i'm you know, I'm on my own there. If
you look at polling, I think about you know, they're combined,
they get about sixty five percent, so about thirty five
(26:09):
percent the Kiwis are saying, we don't really buy into
the vision or lack thereof, of labor and national So
it's an interesting time in politics at the moment, no
doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
We'll come back to your candidacy for New Zealand. First.
I'm flying a kite test totally really yeah, Okay, you're
in a really good position to talk about carbon forestry.
And I think I heard you last week talking to
Kerry Wadham on News Talk ZB about this very same subject.
How badly have we got this wrong or have we
got it wrong?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well, we have got it wrong at the moment. Now,
now let me view one example. Okay, So we often
hear about what happened during Gabrielle, and people forget before
Cyclone Gabrielle up the East coast, there was also Cyclone Hale,
and Cyclone Hale struck in January I created a whole
lot of havoc, and Gabrielle just really finished it off.
But if you drive the Naked Tapa Road, that is
(26:58):
some of the steepest stuff you know around that part
of the part of the island, and it is not
mature native, but it's certainly regenerating. So you know it's
been under forest cover, let's say sixty eighty years. No
slips in there? Whatso are? There was one, I think,
but very few slips in there at all during Hale Gabrielle,
(27:19):
and yet that copped some of the most serious rainfores
had in this country for a long long time. My
point mate, is there is a way to transition uneconomic
land from beer land that was once economic under a
different regime into forestry and save a hell of a
lot of our hillsides. Now it's how you get there.
And you know, I had a plan underway, It was
(27:39):
well underway, and I think it's still very very relevant.
I tried to talk to the new Minister of Forestry,
who I get on with, but he's also the Ministry
of Trade, so he's incredibly busy at this point in time.
But there is a way to transition from uneconomic farmland
into forestry that allows people to make money, but most
importantly it stabilizes our health side and won't let to
(28:00):
some form of ecological disaster in eighty years time.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
So effectively, you plant some pine trees at what a
lower rate and then let the natives regenerate after that.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
You got it in one, mate. So so what you
don't do is you don't go to these steps, take
a step back. So so Ministry of Forestry figured there
was about you know, the gasmap whole countries. I figured
there's about a million hectares of land in this country
that is beer and is completely uneconomic from a farming perspective,
and they reckon there's about another million hectares of land
(28:31):
which is highly marginal from a farming perspective. Again, beer
that could be planted in forestry. So you know, you
know my stance on this, Jamie. I do not believe
that we should be planting up our productive land and
pine trees. Now, I just want to I want to
put that out there because I think that's a very
bad use of our land. Now back to your point,
what some of these carbon farmers had been doing is
(28:53):
high stock radiator on land that will never be harvested,
either because a it's too far from a poor or
a processing facility. It's just too steep and health and
safety rules mean you're never going to get a bloke
and a chainsaw cutting down trees from this really really
steep land. Or or you're just not going to be
allowed to because you know the expectations of our communities.
(29:14):
You don't put these huge, big wallers up on this
very very steep land. So what you do do is
you low stock. You say you can only claim carbon
credits off radiator for let's say thirty years, and low
stocking means that you'll get natives coming through, say thirty
or forty, it doesn't really matter, but put a time
frame on it. So there's got to be a transition.
(29:35):
You hold back some of the money that these people
would get from their carbon credits to make sure they're
doing the right thing. And then what you do is
you have regenerating natives come through and you can earn
carbon credits off the natives. Now, the reason I think
it's important that you can earn carbon credits off radiator
for the first thirty years is because this, for the
first time ever, provides an economic incentive to plant up
(29:59):
land which are just unproductive from a farming perspective.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
It has merit. Yet the forestry people tell me, and
I had this debate with Peter Ware last week on
the show, former president of the forest Owners Association, they
don't want that the farmland way out the back of beyond.
They want flat to rolling stuff somewhere near report.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
No, well, I disagree with that. I mean that there's
got to be a certain percentage, right, I mean you've
got to allow You've got to allow some of the land,
which is you know which you can get harvested and
you can get haulers and into but the bottom line
is is this wholesale planting of farmland is not a
(30:41):
good use. And actually when I was briefly the Ministry
of Land Information and that's that, that's the minister that
controls Dervis's investment office. This is during COVID when David
Clark went mountain biking and I changed the rules because
and I don't know if they were changed back. I
sort of lost interest when the portfolio was given back.
But I said, you didn't in any farm you bought
(31:04):
you could sell off. You could. You could say we're
going to sell off some of this farmland. This is
farm sorry that we bought for foresture conversion. You can
sell off some of farmland. And we wanted to see
a full farm productivity report, which the wolves actually said
in the past. You know you've got a plant whole. Well,
it made it very difficult to subdivide the land, the forest, sorry,
(31:25):
the farm once you bought it. But but you know,
any farmer who's listening to this will know that on
the steep land, of course, there's going to be some
some flatter land that's just part and parcel of planting up.
You know, your gullies in your back country. But what
I'm talking about now is planting for carbon and planting
(31:47):
for land stabilization, planting for production. Again, I just do
not think it is the best use of our precious
farmland to be planted to get in trees for production.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Is do it that?
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Just before I let you go, rumors are circulating that
you're going to throw your hat in the ring for
New Zealand First, and I think for what it's worth,
you and Shane Jones would be a great one two
punch combination.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well look, Shane's a really good made of mine. But
if the truth be no, and I'm being honest with
your listeners here, I haven't had to sit down with Winston.
Winston hasn't called me and said Stu would love you
on the team. So there's been no discussions had between
Winston or any of his strategists or or other members
about me seeing from ZILLM First. I mean, I will
say that I think at this point in time, New
(32:32):
Zealand First are coming out with a lot of with
a pragmatic approach to the issues that will be deivling
in this country at the moment. As mentioned, I'm concerned
about national some of the stuff they're doing. I think
Labor has retreated and once again become an urban liberal party.
There are some very good MP's in there, but they
don't seem to stand for anything at the moment. To
(32:54):
party Mary skis the hell out of me, and I've
been open about that.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
I think the.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Greens have become the alliance party in drag. I've written
about this as well. But as mentioned, if you look
at all the political parties and parlms at the moment,
new Zeald First is probably closest to my political alignment.
But as mentioned, I've had no conversations with Winston. Winston
hasn't called me, so you know, at this point in time,
(33:17):
I'm Stuart nair s XMP.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Well, I'm doing a rugby club fundraiser and to Pooky
next month with Shane Jones, and I'll tap him on
the shoulder and say Stu Nash is keen to join
the team and I'll clip the ticket on a commission.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Well, he may say, well, Stue Nash and I haven't
had that conversation, and and to be honest, I catch
up with Shane every now and again, and we're dealing
on an issue that is both of our hearts at
the moment. But what the conversations do not evolve around
is hey, Stu, here about you come and stand for
your zilmfare. So I haven't had that conversation with Shane.
I haven't had it with Winston. I haven't had it
with their chief of staff. But like I said, I
(33:55):
mean I got on really well with those guys. I
think they're good. The other thing also is I'm well
it mate that you know, the Nash family name is
heavily associated with labor. You know, I was a cabinet
minister for five and a half years. I was in
the bear pit for a long time. It can be brutal.
It is long hours, often for very little reward. And
by that I mean you know, you lose touch with
(34:17):
your friends and your family come second. So getting back
into politics certainly has its has its downside being there
done that. But as mentioned though, and I'd tell you
if it was otherwise, no one from zill And First
has approached me. And to be fair, I haven't given
wins in the call and say hey, can I come
and join you? So you know, the rumors are out there,
of course I've heard them, but I think it's mainly
(34:39):
because I have an immense amount of respect for Winston.
I think we're incredibly well served. He's our best, our
best Minister of Foreign Affairs for a long long time.
And Zilm first is sort of resonating with the other parties,
aren't watch.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The space, Stuart Nash, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Shecuse Jamie much appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That is eleve and away from one. We're going to
wrap the country up next with some of your feedback
and Phil Duncan love song. Yes, some of your feedback
on the country seven Away from one. Someone said if
you've got combine harvester by the Wurzels, Yes we have,
(35:17):
and where's the oh y is the twenty twenty five
Young Farmer of the Year Hugh Jackson or Hugh Jackman?
You said both? No I can. I don't know if
I did say both. Maybe I did, but jaded today,
So we're definitely going with Hugh Jackson, not Hugh Jackman,
the famous Ossie actor, singer and dancer. Michelle You've got
(35:39):
some a bit of feedback.
Speaker 8 (35:41):
There, Yeah, I do some commentary here. So where is
Stuart's planned to tackle the piece that he will help
flourish of course it's referring to Stuart Nash.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You just have yeah, yeah, And I think to be
fair to Stewart, he sees both sides of us, and
he's got a very good background in forestry.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Look, that's the big problem with spray and walk away
carbon farming. It's an echolo disaster on many fronts. That's
going to come back. Invite us on the ass big time,
and the next twenty years we're going to wrap it
with Phil Duncan.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
Along years even alone.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Nestly wrapping the country with Phil Duncan from where the
watch Phil. The week we're about to head into the
second week of July, is that traditionally the coldest week
of the year.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Good afternoon, Very good question. Hello, Good to be with
you again. It depends on sort of how you look
at it, because if you look at geography training that
we had at school, or if you look at the records,
you would say that July and August of the two
coldest months. And yes, usually right now the middle of
July going into it anyway is the coldest time. But
I just wrote about this the other day in Farmers Weekly,
(36:45):
that the actual cold snaps you get in each region.
They vary every year on what time they arrived, and
it's all to do with where the high pressure is.
So sometimes we can get our coldest part of the
year in autumn before we even get into when to
get really heavy frost, and then all of a sudden
it's sort of windy and wet for the winter months
and doesn't get quite as cold. But to answer your
(37:06):
question very simply, as a nation, you would generally say
yes around about now it is okay. Locally it can
be very different.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Let's finish really quickly because there's a big high over
the country at the moment, settled for a few days.
Then another cold front coming in.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Is that it Yeah, there's a huge amount of low
pressure south of Australia, so that's going to be really
affecting our whether by the time we get to the
end of the week. So big cold front moves in
Thursday Friday, the usual stuff windy normally is followed by
windy westerlyes and a burst of rain. Those westerly are
going to be blowing through right into next week. Number
of lows passing through, so we're going into an unsettled phase.
(37:42):
But for some areas it may not feel like winter
because the western northerly winds can make it feel warmer.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Okay, Phil Duncan, thanks as always for your time, mate.
You enjoy the rest of your Monday. Phil Duncan. There
from weatherwatch dot co dot NZ, our leading weatherman in
this country. Unless I'm talking to Chris Brain. I've got
to walk a tight rope there with my weathermen. They're
all good to be perfectly honest. Right, that's us. We
are out of here. Congratulations to Hugh Jackson as opposed
(38:11):
to Jackman twenty twenty five FMG Young Farmer of the Year.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Peter Zan mccorney right. Catch all the latest from the land.
It's the Country podcast with Jamie McKay Thanks to Brent
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