August 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Mark Wynne, Winston Peters, Dennis Neilson, and Phil Duncan.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Catch all the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie mckaye thanks to Brents, the starkest of
the leading agriculture brands.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good afternoon, New Zealand, and welcome to the Country The
shows brought to you by Brand. My name is Jamie McKay.
This is Vangelis Chariots of five fifty years ago. Today
John Walker, that great New Zealand athlete being the first
man to go under three minutes fifty seconds for the
mile fifty years later. I guess today might be remembered
(00:58):
for the day the Alliance grouped Ink to deal with
Dawn Meats, the Irish meat company, and the deal is
not a mile away from what the Irish Times was
speculating on sixty five percent steak in the Alliance Group
for two one hundred and fifty million dollars. Did the
Irish get a bargain? We've got Mark winn waiting on hold,
(01:19):
the Alliance Group chair.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Let's ask him.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Also, Winston Peter's on the show today. He's nationalistic, a nationalist.
He doesn't like selling things to overseas people. What does
he make of the Alliance Group deal and what does
he make of Chloe wanting to be Minister of Finance.
Are really good work in the Herald over the past
two days on the carbon farming ets farm to forestry conversions.
(01:46):
Today's offering from Chris Knox and n Irin Tompkins. Can't
see the sheep for the trees. We're going to speak
to Well, he's a self anointed oracle of the forestry industry,
no other way to describe him. Dennis Neilson will get
his take on that. Two sides to every story, and
we missed him yesterday. Hopefully we can squeeze them in today.
(02:07):
Phil Duncan on the weather, but we kick it off
with markwin Well.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
As promised, the.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Worst kept secret in the meat industry was out this morning.
Irish company Dawn Meats will acquire sixty five percent of
the Alliance Group for two hundred and fifty million dollars.
The pundits and the Irish Times weren't wrong. They were
saying seventy percent for two hundred and seventy million dollars.
Mark Win's the chair person of the Alliance Group. Mark,
(02:47):
did the Irish get a bargain here?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, good afternoon, Jeremie. I think the proposal on the
table is a fair deal. It values the Alliance Group
at just over five hundred million dollar posts the injection
of their capitals, which I think in an industry worth
declining livestock flows and too much capacity, and with Alliance
(03:10):
specifically carrying so much debt, I think it's a fair
deal for Dawn and a good deal for out Shielders.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, if the company's worth just over half a billion
dollars five hundred and two million, why didn't they pay
three hundred and twenty five million for a sixty five
percent stake? Because that's how the maths works.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
So I think we're confusing enterprise value with equity value.
So at an enterprise value level, including ongoing average debt
of working capital for the season, which we've assumed about
one hundred and eighteen million dollars, that puts the enterprise
value at five hundred and two million.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Thanks for the explanation. Were there any other real suitors?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Well, the process we went through started with fifty qualified
potential investors from both the domestic market and international, so
that was passing the wet the net really wide. We
had a set of criteria that we worked through. Many
of those self selected, particularly around livestock numbers declining in
(04:16):
New Zealand and too much capacity. So we ended up
with six non binding indicative offers, and then that whittled
down to three, and then through the process we ended
up with one, which is Dawn Meats.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Was one of those three silver firm farms.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I'm not in a position to say who was in
the operation the catchment, if you like or not, but
it was a combination of both domestic and international.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Is this sort of Hobson's choice?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
This is the best option out of some bad ones,
because obviously the best option would be to retain one
hundred percent farmer co op own ownership, but that was
never going to happen, even though some of your biggest
shareholders were encouraging you to have a crack at that.
Was that ever a serious option?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Absolutely, that was not just a serious option. That was
our preferred option. So middle of last year we kicked
off a capital raise from our shareholders but acknowledged that
this is a terrible time because while Alliance was hurting,
our farmers were also hurting. So what we made clear
at the time was there are three options in front
(05:21):
of us, number one and our preferred is one. Hundred
percent farmer owned. If we can't get that capital then
in the timeframe that we have, then we have to
move into a joint venture type discussion and look for
external capital or potentially sale of one hundred percent of
the company. So here we are. We're in option two,
(05:42):
which is a joint venture, and the board's challenge is
to make sure that we get a good, fair deal
for our shareholders and that's what we believe unanimously is
represented by the Dawn offering that we talked about today.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So you're getting two hundred and fifty million, I think
a couple one hundred million of that's to be used
to repay debt. There's forty million there to go to
the cooperative subject to shareholder livestock supply. So what does
that actually mean? What how does this now value my
alliance share or if I'm a farmer, my one dollar
(06:16):
Alliance share, what's it worth right now under this proposal?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Okay, so two parts you question there. So first one,
let's take on the group valuation. So with six two
hundred and fifty million coming in from Dawn for sixty
five percent, that by calculation values our farmer equity at
for the thirty five percent at one hundred and thirty
(06:41):
five million, and we carry forward one hundred and eighteen
million of average seasonal working capital debt put in the
enterprise value at five hundred and two million. That has
an implied share value from the one dollar current which
is a nominal share of one dollar twenty six cents,
So that is a twenty six percent uplist on the
(07:03):
current share.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Mark in the early nineteen nineties. Believe it or not,
I was an Alliance Farmer shareholder. Cost me a dollar
to buy my shares in the late eighties. It's not
a very good capital gain over thirty or forty years, no, and.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That is one of the challenges of the nominal share
process for cooperatives. So the other key change we've made
to here, Jamie, is that going forward, the proposal is
that as the shares move from the current alliance into
Alliance Investment Cooperative, so we have to move the shares
one for one because Dawn can't invest in the cooperative directly.
(07:40):
So the new cooperatives the shares will change from nominal
one dollar to ordinary shares and those shares would now
be listed on the unlisted stock exchange like a couple
of the other cooperatives in New Zealand, so benefit of that.
First of all, there's a trading platform. You don't have
to apply for redemption and have a fire over your
(08:00):
weight period to get your money out. The farmers will
determine the price, so the trading can only be amongst
the shareholders, but they will determine the price. But our
starting point is based on the two hundred and fifty
million proposal from Dawn. Those shares are worth one dollar
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Are you going to face a run on the bank.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
No.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I think if that was happening, we would have already
faced that. And we We've done an enormous amount of
work on the lines over the last twenty four months
to bring us back into a forecast profit this year.
So after two years of massive loss, the turnaround is
going well. We're back into profit and the future is
(08:42):
looking pretty good from here.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
How badly did of the Alliance Group previous management? Not you,
I respect that you've only been in the job for
a year or so, get it wrong.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Look, I think what we've done is we've gone all
the way back to basics, simple strategy. Clearly articulated high
levels of accountability, and the metrics are all around the
basic value drivers. There's no rocket science here. This is
just a lean, mean cost structure really focused on how
(09:15):
we sell, how we process, and.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Are you going to become a pure cooperative in the
sense that you'll treat all your shareholders equally, because that
is one of the big gripes with the Alliance Group,
that it's different deals for different folks, especially third party traders.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, we thrashed all of these issues out of our
numerous Wallsheed meetings last year. I promised then that we
would address the issues by the first of October, and
by and large that noise has disappeared. Do we still
use third parties? Yes, we do. I hasten to add
at a much smaller percentage of our supply than some
(09:53):
of our competitors, which is a surprise to many. And
what we have also done is made sure that the
third parties do not have an advantage price wise over
our own staff. So those are the two issues. We
address them by the first of October, and that noise
is by and large totally okay.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The meat industry structure, is it basically flawed? I know
we can't do the mega merger that has been talked
about for years. But you must look enviously, mark one,
because you've got a big corporate background, or you were,
of course the chief executive of Balance Agrin Nutrients. You
must look at the industry structure for the dairy and
say Kiwi fruit industries, and you must look at it
(10:33):
with envy.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Are they're very different structures, Jamie, that's for sure. If
you look at dairy with Fonterra and Keywy fruit with
the zest breed, they are of course government mandated monopolies. Effectively,
the meat industry does not enjoy that status. And so
we have a very large number of processes. I mean
(10:56):
it's probably about forty export licensed process is certainly with
the big four making up most of it. It's brutal
and is there opportunity over time to look at how
collaboration and consolidations can take place short, Absolutely, and we're
open to all of that. But to be clear, it
has to be done on commercial terms and that is
(11:20):
really where we want to go. So both myself and
Reilly we have reached out to the other big players
to talk about how we can collaborate with inside the
commerce Commission rules to create values for value for our
collective partners. But our immediate priority is to get this
proposal through the process, have our farmer's vote, and hopefully
(11:44):
we were in a stronger position, and then we can
move into those further discussions.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Markwen, Chairman, chairperson of their Lines Group. Thanks for your time.
I meant to study for the meat industry.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Thanks, Jamie, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Nineteen after twelve. So there you go.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Was Keip secret Lions Group deal. Dawn meets getting sixty
five percent for two hundred and fifty million dollars. Yes,
the meat industry structure is flawed. Tell us what you
think about it if you especially if you're an Alliance
Group shareholder, are you happy with the deal? Our text
numbers five double O nine. Now talking about texts, I
(12:19):
just got one in from former Otago Rugby great. Well
he is Michelle every time I have a bear with them.
Dave Callen, who's a good Timaru boy boy, Timoru Boy's boy,
saying that the athletic connection doesn't only sit with John
Walker breaking three point fifty for the mile fifty years ago.
(12:41):
Today it is the birthday of our old mate Dick Taylor,
It's crazy, isn't it is crazy?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Seventy seven not out?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
What do they say? Only the good die, young Dick.
You've got a long time to go yet. Look honestly,
what a legend and a great bloke he is happy
seventy seventh, Dick Tay Athletics. And of course John Walker's
coach is Arch Jelly.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
It is, and he turns one hundred and three tomorrow,
still around. He was at road relays last year. I
meet him at National Road Relays when he got a
lifetime I think it was Lifetime Award for Athletics New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Well, Arch Jelly one hundred and three tomorrow, Fingers crossed
for your Arch. What a great New Zealander he is
as well. And John Walker behind Peter Snell, our second
greatest athlete in my mind. Anyhow, Okay, So that is
Markwin from the Alliance group now up next to the
(13:38):
batter's box, and I bet you he's got something to
say about this because he doesn't like own overseas ownership
one iota Winstant Peters. Before the end of the hour,
we're going to have a look at a story that's
doing the rounds in the Herald has for the last
two days. Jamie Gray did an excellent piece yesterday the
battle to curb ets driven farm to forest conversions of land,
(14:03):
and then today's offering was from Chris Knox and Irie Tompkins.
Go on to the Herald and read and read these
can't see the sheep for the trees. So we're going
to get a forestry spokesperson, Dennis Neilson to defend his industry.
Before the end of the hour, Phil Duncan on the
weather as well. Winston Peters, New Zealand first Leader, Foreign
(14:39):
Affairs minister, former Deputy Prime Minister on the show today.
Lots to talk about Winston and I know this has
only just got I landed on your desk, but are
you what's your initial thoughts on this Alliance Group deal
selling to the Irish company Dawn Meat sixty five percent
of the company for two hundred and fifty million dollars.
I'm assuming with your nationalistic sort of attitude to things,
(15:02):
you won't like this deal. We've had a question or statement,
well I'm not sure you tell me, Well.
Speaker 7 (15:09):
This make it a crestional or statement, but don't make
it both.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, it was a question, all right, it's.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
A question, I say, and Zung first says, here we
go again. Remember Silver fir Andspars. There was the most
fraudulent deal where the shareholders would deny the information, where
they multiplied the debt which were not true, and they
loaded the incomes which was not true, and got away
with the fraud. And I said at the time, and
(15:35):
here we go again. And my concerned about it is
I'm dramatical concern about it because we should be looking
to own and maximize the value for our country and
our economy and for our workers the resources of New Zealand.
And this is my view, a serious mistake.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, but they had Hobson's choice. They had no other choice, effectively,
because no other suitor was prepared to front up with
some money. Was either that or sell it. And the
snow buyers.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
No, no, no, sorry sorry. Selofom's Farms was a classic. And
you're giving the same out argument now you know what
happened to time. Then your supportive National Party was carried
on on this dance circus. And I was saying at
the time, this is a fraud of the worst sort.
Here we go again. What do you mean they've got
no option? We expect our New Zealand ownership and our
(16:22):
primary production which is massively supported by this government, to
be good managers of their resources and their industries. That's
what's gone wrong here, isn't it. So why don't we
start asking questions of them before we just cave in
and met some other country own a major resource of
one of the most productive prime production economies in the
(16:43):
whole wide world.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So do you think this might have problems getting past
the OIO?
Speaker 7 (16:48):
I sure hope, So yes, I do. I mean, how
are we going to make our country wealthy if we're
going to repeat this mistake where the things which we
should own down to the villages in their settlements in
the countryside, in managing it and for their own wealth,
which made a successful one time met US number two
in the world. If we go down this path, this
(17:08):
pathway of selling offera assets for foreign ownership sixty five
percent in this case, this is the second one. Silver
Ferns fins first, and here comes the Alliance. How did
they ever get to the situation? And why are you
not examining them on the program asking that the shareholdership
and the management what went wrong? And when you're going
to own up to your dire, I sayd commercial incomfidence.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Okay, let me talk about the poll last night. And
I know you don't talk about poles, but if they
come out, okay for you. You're often happy enough to
talk about them. You and your mate Shane, Yes, you
are a sure.
Speaker 7 (17:39):
No, I don't here you go again. You have not
asked the question. You make this stap before you start.
And I've never been happy to talk about fictional poles.
Our job is to turn those poles into compete and
we are.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You're the preferred prime minister buy something like eight percent
of those polled or seven percent.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And your pointers, well, you're popular.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
This could be a good election for New Zealand. First,
Shane Shane Jones is running around the country filling halls.
Speaker 7 (18:09):
We hlend person. Unlike the rest, we're going out and
talking to audi New Zealanders at the very base all
around the country. We're packing the halls. Yes, you're right.
What's remarkable about us packing the halls? There's no media coverage.
You smell a rat yere I do, but it's not
going to stop us because it's the source and the
cause of our success. We're talking to all New Zealanders
(18:30):
and sharing their hopes and aspirations and our plans to
help them.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
There was plenty of media coverage of you refusing to
wear the Hiver's vest.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
Well, you know we don't go along with stylistic virtue
singing nonsense. We were getting on a train. Why would
you have to wear safety glasses and a helmet on
a train? Pray tell me that all wasted money when
we should get on the job billing the train line
and the rail line as fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Did do well?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I don't know about trains, but did you throw your
leader under the bus on that occasion? Did you make
him look weak?
Speaker 7 (19:03):
Well, I didn't know that he'd buy helmet on, But
it's not my business to start telling people that address.
And by the way, pink as a color is not
internationally a safe color by way of official recognition. So
the ones that were in pink were in proper colorful kickff.
Even if there was a danger.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, Barry Soper reckoned yesterday. If there was an accident,
they would pick you out by the blue pin stripe suit. Anyhow,
once time, look, let me carry on, Let me carry.
Speaker 7 (19:29):
On another down to the south. Isn't a big critical
for no, all right.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
All right, let's continue on with the prospect. Heaven help
us of Chloe Swarbrick being the Minister of Finance in
a Labor lead coalition government.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
Look one journalist's answer this question. I said, please tell
me how long did it take for you before you
stop laughing at that suggestion? It is laughable. It tells
me about the insiduous arrogance of some people. This is
someone who ran for the biggest local government in Australasia
now me the or Conservacy to be the mayor, and
now she's saying she should be the Prime Minister and
(20:07):
the Finance minister. Colossal arrogance when you think about it.
Couldn't even run the school tukshop if you tried.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Do you think Chris Hopkins's plan heading into the selection
maybe to do nothing? I mean he's already neck and
neck with national Now when it comes to preferred prime minister,
he's neck and neck with the incumbent so and he's
done nothing, literally done nothing.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
That might he might sleep walk to victory.
Speaker 7 (20:34):
Well you might think that, but your listeners are hoping
on one thing that's going to happen. They're going to
place their trust in a party called he's yourn person.
That's what's going to say in this country. I've got
good news for you and all you will listeners.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Okay, Winston Peters, thanks as always for your time. I
always entertaining and I'm looking forward to co hosting. I'm
not really co hosting. I'm am seeing for Shane Jones
who's doing a fundraiser at the Tapuke Rugby cl in
a couple.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Of weeks time.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And like his speeches around the country, halls of this nation,
he has packed out the Tapooki Rugby club rooms or
the community center as well. So looking forward what he
has to say off the record, if it's anything like
he is on the record, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Thanks for your time, Thank you, have a good day.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
In Instant twenty eight away from one some of your
feedback on the Alliance Group Farmer owned rights one Texter.
The biggest shareholder is a stock firm. If s for
Jolly's sake, I think that stands for.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
More of them, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Forget about the shares. What is more important is the
payout price from justin.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Jamie.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Markwin didn't answer your question on did the previous board
and management get it horribly wrong. We need an answer,
says Joe Farmer from Southland. I think you do too, Joe,
but the answer is quite simple. Yes they did. Here's
another one there. Lones Group hasn't been acting like a
true cooperative for years with special deals for large supplies
and third party traders. So what goes around comes round.
(22:09):
And here's another one. And this is a bit of
a damning indictment of not only the Alliance Group but
the meat industry from a Texter who says we sold
lambs this year to the Alliance Group through a second party.
They were then killed through a third party. We received
a dollar fifty more than we would have going direct
(22:29):
with Lyons. With the Alliance, we won't deal with them
again until the stops Now. Mark Wynn said they've largely
put a stop to it. That's definitely not what I'm hearing,
but a cooperative my backside up. Next to The Rural
Latest and Rural News and sports News twenty five away
(22:56):
from one, You're with the Country, brought to you by Brandt.
He's the Latest and Rural News.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
The Country's world US with CULD Cadet, New Zealand's leading
right on lawnlower brand. Visit steel Ford dot co dot
nz for your local stoggist.
Speaker 6 (23:10):
Could iconic dairy brands like Anchor and Mainlanch soon be
under French ownership. The Australian Financial Review is reporting Fonterra
has granted dairy giant Lactalis exclusive negotiations to buy its.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Consumer arm Winston won't like that.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
He will not. Fonterra says the sales process as competitive
and confidential and it won't comment on speculation. Shane Soley
from Harbor Asset Management says Lictalis is a massive French
privately held company which already owns several Australian dairy brands,
as reportedly the largest dairy company, one of the largest
food companies in the world. And that's your rural news.
You can find more at the Country dot co dot nz.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Sport with AFCO visit them online at a fco dot
co dot nz.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And as we said today, mark's the fiftieth anniversary of
Sir John Walker setting a world record going under three
point fifty three point forty nine point four for the
mile in Sweden. Happy birthday, seventy seventh birthday to Dick
Taylor and just quickly the All Blacks will rest loose
forward Wallace Settiti for another week. The twenty two year
old missed the three Test series against France with an
(24:13):
ankle injury. Coach Scott Robertson says he'll be fit for
the second of two matches against Argentina next weekend. Right,
we're going from the meat industry to the forestry industry
and carbon farming up next to the oracle himself, Dennis Nelson.
(24:40):
One of the big stories out there at the moment,
and the Herald, to give it credit, has done an
excellent job over the past two days is on carbon farming.
The ETS farm to forestry conversion now beef and lamb
New Zealand says the government hasn't gone far enough on
carbon farming legislation.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
However, the self.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Anointed oracle of forestry, Dennis Neilson, a director of forestry
advisory and publishing firm Dana, says the farming sector has
been laying it on a bit thick, but he concedes
it has done a better job of lobbying than the
forestry sector. Are you admitting defeat, Dennis, Good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Good afternoon, mister mclai. I'm omitting success the forestry lobby
by large, according to advisers that Tommy directly earned directly.
Thrill the bits that new land planting on farms of
pine trees has come to a screeching halt and maybe
(25:44):
maybe forever, I don't know. And the people that owned trees,
the three owners, and Thrill the bits that that's happened.
So really not admitting defeatus of milling success.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Well that's not quite true, Dennis, because as it stands,
under the proposed new legislation which will come into law
later this year, any farmer out there can plant twenty
five percent of their farm in pines. I'm involved in
a dairy farming operation. We've got a runoff block worth
thinking of doing exactly that. Isn't it all about right tree,
right place? There's plenty of places to plant pine trees,
(26:16):
and let's be honest, you're planting them for carbon credits,
not for production forestry. But there's plenty of places to
plant them. But my beef with you guys, Dennis, is
you've been planting them on good food producing and in
some cases arable land.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
It's just not right.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Well, old Jamie, as I mentioned earlier, I don't know
if it was on the record or not, but my
calculations indicate that that forestry in New Zealand is five
times more efficient of earning export dollars than pastoral farming
is five times more efficient. So I don't know what
There's two definitions to get that get confused. One's carbon farming.
(26:59):
What's that? Who knows? I mean my apple trees at
the back of carbon farming because they're sequestering carbon. And
what's the difference between carbon farming and production of carbon
forestry and production forestry? Very confusing.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Well, i'll tell you what's they hang on, Dennis. I'll
tell you what the difference is my read on this,
and I might be wrong. You know more about forestry
than me. That some of these pine plantations will never
be harvested. That's what I call carbon farming. I'm all
for production forestry. It's our fourth biggest export earner, behind
dairy meat and horticulture.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
Yes, well, I don't know of any international investors. There
will be, but I don't know any who actually plant
trees with the express purpose of never harvesting them. They
don't in Europe especially and elsewhere. That's all production forestry,
and they expect to be production forestry in New Zealand.
That's my understanding. So I don't know who the people
(27:56):
who plant carbon forests are. They must be New Zealand farmers,
I suppose. I don't know. Now.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I note that you're saying, and I guess this is
credit to Federated farmers and beef and lambers. They've played
a better pr game than you because the government has
really taken note and done something about it. Some people
are saying it's closing the stable door after the horse
has bolted. But Dennis, what are you going to do
about some of this pristine farmland that has been planted
(28:23):
into pine trees which never should have been How do
we revert that back? Or do we ever revert that back?
Speaker 5 (28:29):
A very good question, Jamie. Right now, in most catchment
areas in New Zealand, because of regional councils, it's not
legal to change land use from forestry to farming. It's
not legal. It's illegal, and that's wrong. And I will
join you and joint venture and lobbing the government to
make it totally legal. If a farmer or a landowner
(28:51):
has freese on their property and they want to convert
it back to farming. That should be legal, and I'll
join with you in lobbying for that.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well we've seen we've seen a great example of that
on the Volcanic Plateau.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yes, with the Landcorp farms.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Yeah, but that occurred before the restrictions came in, was
the runoff and nitrate restrictions. That would not be allowed today.
That would be illegal to do today. In fact, it
got stopped the land Corp farms and down close to
Waireki in North Tapo they had to stop doing that
because the law chained so they could not And it's
now legal to that conversion and should not be. I
(29:30):
think any landowners should have the right to convert forests
to farms if they wish. And i'ld join you and
join vega and lobbing whatever minister you want to, and
I'll come along to any meetings to help you do that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, that'll make my day now.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And the herald part two of the story was today
can't see the sheep for the trees? Ten years, one
hundred thousand hectares and nearly a billion dollars of foreign
forestry conversion. And it's and it's been mapped interestingly over
that period. I think the past decade only seven requests
to the OIO have been refused, so this has gone
(30:05):
on unabated.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
I haven't seen the Jamie Gray's today's numbers, but you've
seen them there whatever they are, and they are whatever
they are because the OIO they're official, and I think
that's worthy. We track since twenty ten, we track every
OIO approval or rejection at some three hundred and fifty
(30:30):
involving forestry. A lot of them have been forest sales
to forest sales, not new land. So I can't really
comment on those numbers. Jamie. You might repeat them, but
it doesn't matter. But that's happened, and that's history and stopped.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Dennis Nielsen with US Forestry Oracle self anointed. Good on
your Dennis, Always enjoy your imput you're claiming, or you
point out that large tracts of sheep farming country and
this is off the back of federated farmers Save our
sheep campaign, particularly in Canterbury and South and haven't gone
into trees. They've gone into dairying. And one of your
other mates provided me with cimonpho this morning, saying in
(31:07):
the two decades between nineteen ninety five and twenty fifteen,
dairy farming grew in land use, in land use in
terms of hectares by forty five percent. But once again Dennis,
putting the environmental imprint of that to one side. It
is going from food producing land to food producing land.
(31:28):
My beef once again is that we're planting or we
have been planting the wrong tree in the wrong place.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
That's a debate that will be permanent, and will agree
to disagree. I think very simple. I'm a simple person.
The person that should decide whether they plant a tree,
or grow a sheep or grow a dairy cow shall
be the landowner, not the government.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, and the farmer's got the right under this new legislation,
as I said, to plant up to twenty five percent
of their farm and forestry, which would be a smart move.
Get the carbon credits, grow trees on some of your
unproductive especially south facing land. But when it comes to forestry,
and I don't blame the production forestry industry here at all, Dennis,
because it's pure economics. You don't want to be planting
(32:15):
on steep land way out the back of beyond for
numerous reasons. But you want to be planting on our
rolling or even flat land close to a port makes
it more economic.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
It does, indeed, But that's not going to happen anymore.
But I fully support farmers and I always have. We
with Mike King of Interpine here and we had several
seven hours in twenty twenty one, twenty to twenty two
around New Zealand we asked beef and had to support us.
It was farmers can have their cake and eat it too.
(32:46):
They can actually have a farm, they can plant a
part of it in trees and actually be better off around.
So we've always supported farmers planting part of their farms
and trees always, and I ad my and you and
your team and your yourt venture partners, please plant part
of your farm and breece. It's fantastic. But I don't know.
(33:08):
I think our Minister believes that there's going to be
continuing high activity and new land planting even with these
new policy new policies becoming law and in place. I
don't necessarily agree. I think it will slow down considerably.
Just to ask the nursery people, who someone has to
order threes for next year to plant? No one's ordering
(33:29):
any three, not you, not anyone else. So I think
we'll have a slow down. Whether it's going to be
temporary or permanent, who knows.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Dennis Nielsen, I could check to you all day, haven't
got all day. I think the farmer and the forester
can be friends.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Absolutely agree, Dennis Nielsen. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Half away from One, Thanks Dennis, coming back with Phil
Duncan and some of your feedback, lots of it coming
in on the carbon farming ate Away from One, some
of your feedback. High mister Mackay. It's very polite of you,
Jared from Christchurch.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Gee.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I love Winston, no nonsense with that chap. I hope
he doesn't retire soon. I don't think in any danger
of that, Jared. I think Winston will die with his
boots on, as political boots on, if you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
I think there's a lot of life left in him.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yet, this guy Dennis Neilson, the text refers to as
obviously not been to Southland. Does this muppet realize we
can't eat trees, we can't eat export dollars? Says another
A Texter has an interesting one. There's a lot of
loging companies going broke at the moment, production forestry can't
(34:44):
be that good, and it's on a bit of a
low at the moment. You're dead right. Pine trees destroy
soils and biodiversity. I think that outweighs the prose of
pine forestry. Disagree with you there, right tree, right place.
It's very important industry for us, but we just don't
want to plant pine tree on high quality food producing land.
Up next, Phil Duncan, wrapping the country with our weather
(35:11):
man normally on a Monday. Today, on a Tuesday, Phil Duncan, Actually,
here's a good text coming. I just need to read
this one out. Kiewe farmers have paid a fortune through
osprey fees to eradicate TV only to have carbon forestry
let wild pigs, deer and possums undo all the hard
work that's been done. That is a good text, and
that is on and my difference with Dennis's some of
(35:34):
these forestry blocks are not being managed as a production
forestry block would be managed anyhow. If you know better
than that, text me on five nine, Phil Duncan's gonna
wrap it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Phil. It's pretty calm and.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Settled this week, but we've got a bit of a
pole of blast and a change coming, mind you it
is August.
Speaker 8 (35:53):
Yeah, gooday, Jamie. We've got high pressure over us at
the moment, bringing in some wet weather for Canterbury today
and a wet cold weekend for many sort of central
parts of New Zealand like Wellington and Canterbury, northern Canterbury.
So this week high pressure rolls in, frosty weather spreads everywhere,
or at least up towards Auckland and Northland. Then this
weekend we get a bit of a northerly change and
(36:14):
that blows away the Polary afloat for a couple of days.
But next week Monday, low pressure comes in from the
Tasman Sea and by Tuesday it looks as though we've
got a snow event coming into the South Island. At
this stage it's still a changeable forecast, but we are
predicting snow down to about two hundred meters maybe one
hundred meters in Otago, Southland and Canterbury South Canterbury early
(36:36):
next week rund Tuesday this time next week.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And not everyone will be disappointed with that forecast in
terms of the areas that have had too much rain.
And I'm particularly thinking of our friends in the Tasman
Nelson region. What's happening there.
Speaker 8 (36:48):
It's got a really good drying out phase over the
last couple of weeks. There is a chance that as
that low comes in from the Tasman next Monday, that
there might be some rain that comes into Tasman and Nelson.
At this it doesn't look like rain warning criteria, but
you ever know, normally wind low pressure worth monitoring. But
at this stage it's more about the cold change coming in.
(37:08):
Canterbury in the mountains may have snow for much of
next week. Not talking about low laying farming areas, but
up in the mountains themselves. The fact is you're an
indicator of sort of moisture and cold airflows going through
this week. But another big high is on the way,
so it's not all bad news.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, okay, well we'll take that. Phil.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Thank you very much for your time to appreciate your contribution,
albeit one day late, and that was my fault, not yours.
Speaker 8 (37:31):
No, it's all good, beautiful weather this week. I got
my feet up.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Good on you. There we go.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Phil Duncan from weather Watch, New Zealand's leading weather man.
I hope Chris Brandolina it's not listening when I say that,
oh I can't even read that text. Now, that's not
a bad shot. Actually, some of the best things have
said while the mics are off.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
We'll catch you tomorrow. Mike's on.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Catch All the latest from the Land Hits the Country
podcast with Jamie MacKaye. Thanks to Frent, your specialist in
John Deere construction equipment,
Catch all the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie mckaye thanks to Brents, the starkest of
the leading agriculture brands.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good afternoon, New Zealand, and welcome to the Country The
shows brought to you by Brand. My name is Jamie McKay.
This is Vangelis Chariots of five fifty years ago. Today
John Walker, that great New Zealand athlete being the first
man to go under three minutes fifty seconds for the
mile fifty years later. I guess today might be remembered
(00:58):
for the day the Alliance grouped Ink to deal with
Dawn Meats, the Irish meat company, and the deal is
not a mile away from what the Irish Times was
speculating on sixty five percent steak in the Alliance Group
for two one hundred and fifty million dollars. Did the
Irish get a bargain? We've got Mark winn waiting on hold,
(01:19):
the Alliance Group chair.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Let's ask him.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Also, Winston Peter's on the show today. He's nationalistic, a nationalist.
He doesn't like selling things to overseas people. What does
he make of the Alliance Group deal and what does
he make of Chloe wanting to be Minister of Finance.
Are really good work in the Herald over the past
two days on the carbon farming ets farm to forestry conversions.
(01:46):
Today's offering from Chris Knox and n Irin Tompkins. Can't
see the sheep for the trees. We're going to speak
to Well, he's a self anointed oracle of the forestry industry,
no other way to describe him. Dennis Neilson will get
his take on that. Two sides to every story, and
we missed him yesterday. Hopefully we can squeeze them in today.
(02:07):
Phil Duncan on the weather, but we kick it off
with markwin Well.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
As promised, the.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Worst kept secret in the meat industry was out this morning.
Irish company Dawn Meats will acquire sixty five percent of
the Alliance Group for two hundred and fifty million dollars.
The pundits and the Irish Times weren't wrong. They were
saying seventy percent for two hundred and seventy million dollars.
Mark Win's the chair person of the Alliance Group. Mark,
(02:47):
did the Irish get a bargain here?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, good afternoon, Jeremie. I think the proposal on the
table is a fair deal. It values the Alliance Group
at just over five hundred million dollar posts the injection
of their capitals, which I think in an industry worth
declining livestock flows and too much capacity, and with Alliance
(03:10):
specifically carrying so much debt, I think it's a fair
deal for Dawn and a good deal for out Shielders.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, if the company's worth just over half a billion
dollars five hundred and two million, why didn't they pay
three hundred and twenty five million for a sixty five
percent stake? Because that's how the maths works.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
So I think we're confusing enterprise value with equity value.
So at an enterprise value level, including ongoing average debt
of working capital for the season, which we've assumed about
one hundred and eighteen million dollars, that puts the enterprise
value at five hundred and two million.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Thanks for the explanation. Were there any other real suitors?
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Well, the process we went through started with fifty qualified
potential investors from both the domestic market and international, so
that was passing the wet the net really wide. We
had a set of criteria that we worked through. Many
of those self selected, particularly around livestock numbers declining in
(04:16):
New Zealand and too much capacity. So we ended up
with six non binding indicative offers, and then that whittled
down to three, and then through the process we ended
up with one, which is Dawn Meats.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Was one of those three silver firm farms.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I'm not in a position to say who was in
the operation the catchment, if you like or not, but
it was a combination of both domestic and international.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Is this sort of Hobson's choice?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
This is the best option out of some bad ones,
because obviously the best option would be to retain one
hundred percent farmer co op own ownership, but that was
never going to happen, even though some of your biggest
shareholders were encouraging you to have a crack at that.
Was that ever a serious option?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Absolutely, that was not just a serious option. That was
our preferred option. So middle of last year we kicked
off a capital raise from our shareholders but acknowledged that
this is a terrible time because while Alliance was hurting,
our farmers were also hurting. So what we made clear
at the time was there are three options in front
(05:21):
of us, number one and our preferred is one. Hundred
percent farmer owned. If we can't get that capital then
in the timeframe that we have, then we have to
move into a joint venture type discussion and look for
external capital or potentially sale of one hundred percent of
the company. So here we are. We're in option two,
(05:42):
which is a joint venture, and the board's challenge is
to make sure that we get a good, fair deal
for our shareholders and that's what we believe unanimously is
represented by the Dawn offering that we talked about today.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So you're getting two hundred and fifty million, I think
a couple one hundred million of that's to be used
to repay debt. There's forty million there to go to
the cooperative subject to shareholder livestock supply. So what does
that actually mean? What how does this now value my
alliance share or if I'm a farmer, my one dollar
(06:16):
Alliance share, what's it worth right now under this proposal?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Okay, so two parts you question there. So first one,
let's take on the group valuation. So with six two
hundred and fifty million coming in from Dawn for sixty
five percent, that by calculation values our farmer equity at
for the thirty five percent at one hundred and thirty
(06:41):
five million, and we carry forward one hundred and eighteen
million of average seasonal working capital debt put in the
enterprise value at five hundred and two million. That has
an implied share value from the one dollar current which
is a nominal share of one dollar twenty six cents,
So that is a twenty six percent uplist on the
(07:03):
current share.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Mark in the early nineteen nineties. Believe it or not,
I was an Alliance Farmer shareholder. Cost me a dollar
to buy my shares in the late eighties. It's not
a very good capital gain over thirty or forty years, no, and.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That is one of the challenges of the nominal share
process for cooperatives. So the other key change we've made
to here, Jamie, is that going forward, the proposal is
that as the shares move from the current alliance into
Alliance Investment Cooperative, so we have to move the shares
one for one because Dawn can't invest in the cooperative directly.
(07:40):
So the new cooperatives the shares will change from nominal
one dollar to ordinary shares and those shares would now
be listed on the unlisted stock exchange like a couple
of the other cooperatives in New Zealand, so benefit of that.
First of all, there's a trading platform. You don't have
to apply for redemption and have a fire over your
(08:00):
weight period to get your money out. The farmers will
determine the price, so the trading can only be amongst
the shareholders, but they will determine the price. But our
starting point is based on the two hundred and fifty
million proposal from Dawn. Those shares are worth one dollar
twenty six.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Are you going to face a run on the bank.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
No.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I think if that was happening, we would have already
faced that. And we We've done an enormous amount of
work on the lines over the last twenty four months
to bring us back into a forecast profit this year.
So after two years of massive loss, the turnaround is
going well. We're back into profit and the future is
(08:42):
looking pretty good from here.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
How badly did of the Alliance Group previous management? Not you,
I respect that you've only been in the job for
a year or so, get it wrong.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Look, I think what we've done is we've gone all
the way back to basics, simple strategy. Clearly articulated high
levels of accountability, and the metrics are all around the
basic value drivers. There's no rocket science here. This is
just a lean, mean cost structure really focused on how
(09:15):
we sell, how we process, and.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Are you going to become a pure cooperative in the
sense that you'll treat all your shareholders equally, because that
is one of the big gripes with the Alliance Group,
that it's different deals for different folks, especially third party traders.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Yeah, we thrashed all of these issues out of our
numerous Wallsheed meetings last year. I promised then that we
would address the issues by the first of October, and
by and large that noise has disappeared. Do we still
use third parties? Yes, we do. I hasten to add
at a much smaller percentage of our supply than some
(09:53):
of our competitors, which is a surprise to many. And
what we have also done is made sure that the
third parties do not have an advantage price wise over
our own staff. So those are the two issues. We
address them by the first of October, and that noise
is by and large totally okay.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The meat industry structure, is it basically flawed? I know
we can't do the mega merger that has been talked
about for years. But you must look enviously, mark one,
because you've got a big corporate background, or you were,
of course the chief executive of Balance Agrin Nutrients. You
must look at the industry structure for the dairy and
say Kiwi fruit industries, and you must look at it
(10:33):
with envy.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Are they're very different structures, Jamie, that's for sure. If
you look at dairy with Fonterra and Keywy fruit with
the zest breed, they are of course government mandated monopolies. Effectively,
the meat industry does not enjoy that status. And so
we have a very large number of processes. I mean
(10:56):
it's probably about forty export licensed process is certainly with
the big four making up most of it. It's brutal
and is there opportunity over time to look at how
collaboration and consolidations can take place short, Absolutely, and we're
open to all of that. But to be clear, it
has to be done on commercial terms and that is
(11:20):
really where we want to go. So both myself and
Reilly we have reached out to the other big players
to talk about how we can collaborate with inside the
commerce Commission rules to create values for value for our
collective partners. But our immediate priority is to get this
proposal through the process, have our farmer's vote, and hopefully
(11:44):
we were in a stronger position, and then we can
move into those further discussions.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Markwen, Chairman, chairperson of their Lines Group. Thanks for your time.
I meant to study for the meat industry.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Thanks, Jamie, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Nineteen after twelve. So there you go.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Was Keip secret Lions Group deal. Dawn meets getting sixty
five percent for two hundred and fifty million dollars. Yes,
the meat industry structure is flawed. Tell us what you
think about it if you especially if you're an Alliance
Group shareholder, are you happy with the deal? Our text
numbers five double O nine. Now talking about texts, I
(12:19):
just got one in from former Otago Rugby great. Well
he is Michelle every time I have a bear with them.
Dave Callen, who's a good Timaru boy boy, Timoru Boy's boy,
saying that the athletic connection doesn't only sit with John
Walker breaking three point fifty for the mile fifty years ago.
(12:41):
Today it is the birthday of our old mate Dick Taylor,
It's crazy, isn't it is crazy?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Seventy seven not out?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
What do they say? Only the good die, young Dick.
You've got a long time to go yet. Look honestly,
what a legend and a great bloke he is happy
seventy seventh, Dick Tay Athletics. And of course John Walker's
coach is Arch Jelly.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
It is, and he turns one hundred and three tomorrow,
still around. He was at road relays last year. I
meet him at National Road Relays when he got a
lifetime I think it was Lifetime Award for Athletics New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Well, Arch Jelly one hundred and three tomorrow, Fingers crossed
for your Arch. What a great New Zealander he is
as well. And John Walker behind Peter Snell, our second
greatest athlete in my mind. Anyhow, Okay, So that is
Markwin from the Alliance group now up next to the
(13:38):
batter's box, and I bet you he's got something to
say about this because he doesn't like own overseas ownership
one iota Winstant Peters. Before the end of the hour,
we're going to have a look at a story that's
doing the rounds in the Herald has for the last
two days. Jamie Gray did an excellent piece yesterday the
battle to curb ets driven farm to forest conversions of land,
(14:03):
and then today's offering was from Chris Knox and Irie Tompkins.
Go on to the Herald and read and read these
can't see the sheep for the trees. So we're going
to get a forestry spokesperson, Dennis Neilson to defend his industry.
Before the end of the hour, Phil Duncan on the
weather as well. Winston Peters, New Zealand first Leader, Foreign
(14:39):
Affairs minister, former Deputy Prime Minister on the show today.
Lots to talk about Winston and I know this has
only just got I landed on your desk, but are
you what's your initial thoughts on this Alliance Group deal
selling to the Irish company Dawn Meat sixty five percent
of the company for two hundred and fifty million dollars.
I'm assuming with your nationalistic sort of attitude to things,
(15:02):
you won't like this deal. We've had a question or statement,
well I'm not sure you tell me, Well.
Speaker 7 (15:09):
This make it a crestional or statement, but don't make
it both.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, it was a question, all right, it's.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
A question, I say, and Zung first says, here we
go again. Remember Silver fir Andspars. There was the most
fraudulent deal where the shareholders would deny the information, where
they multiplied the debt which were not true, and they
loaded the incomes which was not true, and got away
with the fraud. And I said at the time, and
(15:35):
here we go again. And my concerned about it is
I'm dramatical concern about it because we should be looking
to own and maximize the value for our country and
our economy and for our workers the resources of New Zealand.
And this is my view, a serious mistake.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, but they had Hobson's choice. They had no other choice, effectively,
because no other suitor was prepared to front up with
some money. Was either that or sell it. And the
snow buyers.
Speaker 7 (16:02):
No, no, no, sorry sorry. Selofom's Farms was a classic. And
you're giving the same out argument now you know what
happened to time. Then your supportive National Party was carried
on on this dance circus. And I was saying at
the time, this is a fraud of the worst sort.
Here we go again. What do you mean they've got
no option? We expect our New Zealand ownership and our
(16:22):
primary production which is massively supported by this government, to
be good managers of their resources and their industries. That's
what's gone wrong here, isn't it. So why don't we
start asking questions of them before we just cave in
and met some other country own a major resource of
one of the most productive prime production economies in the
(16:43):
whole wide world.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So do you think this might have problems getting past
the OIO?
Speaker 7 (16:48):
I sure hope, So yes, I do. I mean, how
are we going to make our country wealthy if we're
going to repeat this mistake where the things which we
should own down to the villages in their settlements in
the countryside, in managing it and for their own wealth,
which made a successful one time met US number two
in the world. If we go down this path, this
(17:08):
pathway of selling offera assets for foreign ownership sixty five
percent in this case, this is the second one. Silver
Ferns fins first, and here comes the Alliance. How did
they ever get to the situation? And why are you
not examining them on the program asking that the shareholdership
and the management what went wrong? And when you're going
to own up to your dire, I sayd commercial incomfidence.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Okay, let me talk about the poll last night. And
I know you don't talk about poles, but if they
come out, okay for you. You're often happy enough to
talk about them. You and your mate Shane, Yes, you
are a sure.
Speaker 7 (17:39):
No, I don't here you go again. You have not
asked the question. You make this stap before you start.
And I've never been happy to talk about fictional poles.
Our job is to turn those poles into compete and
we are.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You're the preferred prime minister buy something like eight percent
of those polled or seven percent.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And your pointers, well, you're popular.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
This could be a good election for New Zealand. First,
Shane Shane Jones is running around the country filling halls.
Speaker 7 (18:09):
We hlend person. Unlike the rest, we're going out and
talking to audi New Zealanders at the very base all
around the country. We're packing the halls. Yes, you're right.
What's remarkable about us packing the halls? There's no media coverage.
You smell a rat yere I do, but it's not
going to stop us because it's the source and the
cause of our success. We're talking to all New Zealanders
(18:30):
and sharing their hopes and aspirations and our plans to
help them.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
There was plenty of media coverage of you refusing to
wear the Hiver's vest.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
Well, you know we don't go along with stylistic virtue
singing nonsense. We were getting on a train. Why would
you have to wear safety glasses and a helmet on
a train? Pray tell me that all wasted money when
we should get on the job billing the train line
and the rail line as fast as possible.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Did do well?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I don't know about trains, but did you throw your
leader under the bus on that occasion? Did you make
him look weak?
Speaker 7 (19:03):
Well, I didn't know that he'd buy helmet on, But
it's not my business to start telling people that address.
And by the way, pink as a color is not
internationally a safe color by way of official recognition. So
the ones that were in pink were in proper colorful kickff.
Even if there was a danger.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, Barry Soper reckoned yesterday. If there was an accident,
they would pick you out by the blue pin stripe suit. Anyhow,
once time, look, let me carry on, Let me carry.
Speaker 7 (19:29):
On another down to the south. Isn't a big critical
for no, all right.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
All right, let's continue on with the prospect. Heaven help
us of Chloe Swarbrick being the Minister of Finance in
a Labor lead coalition government.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
Look one journalist's answer this question. I said, please tell
me how long did it take for you before you
stop laughing at that suggestion? It is laughable. It tells
me about the insiduous arrogance of some people. This is
someone who ran for the biggest local government in Australasia
now me the or Conservacy to be the mayor, and
now she's saying she should be the Prime Minister and
(20:07):
the Finance minister. Colossal arrogance when you think about it.
Couldn't even run the school tukshop if you tried.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Do you think Chris Hopkins's plan heading into the selection
maybe to do nothing? I mean he's already neck and
neck with national Now when it comes to preferred prime minister,
he's neck and neck with the incumbent so and he's
done nothing, literally done nothing.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
That might he might sleep walk to victory.
Speaker 7 (20:34):
Well you might think that, but your listeners are hoping
on one thing that's going to happen. They're going to
place their trust in a party called he's yourn person.
That's what's going to say in this country. I've got
good news for you and all you will listeners.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Okay, Winston Peters, thanks as always for your time. I
always entertaining and I'm looking forward to co hosting. I'm
not really co hosting. I'm am seeing for Shane Jones
who's doing a fundraiser at the Tapuke Rugby cl in
a couple.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Of weeks time.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And like his speeches around the country, halls of this nation,
he has packed out the Tapooki Rugby club rooms or
the community center as well. So looking forward what he
has to say off the record, if it's anything like
he is on the record, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Thanks for your time, Thank you, have a good day.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
In Instant twenty eight away from one some of your
feedback on the Alliance Group Farmer owned rights one Texter.
The biggest shareholder is a stock firm. If s for
Jolly's sake, I think that stands for.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
More of them, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Forget about the shares. What is more important is the
payout price from justin.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Jamie.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Markwin didn't answer your question on did the previous board
and management get it horribly wrong. We need an answer,
says Joe Farmer from Southland. I think you do too, Joe,
but the answer is quite simple. Yes they did. Here's
another one there. Lones Group hasn't been acting like a
true cooperative for years with special deals for large supplies
and third party traders. So what goes around comes round.
(22:09):
And here's another one. And this is a bit of
a damning indictment of not only the Alliance Group but
the meat industry from a Texter who says we sold
lambs this year to the Alliance Group through a second party.
They were then killed through a third party. We received
a dollar fifty more than we would have going direct
(22:29):
with Lyons. With the Alliance, we won't deal with them
again until the stops Now. Mark Wynn said they've largely
put a stop to it. That's definitely not what I'm hearing,
but a cooperative my backside up. Next to The Rural
Latest and Rural News and sports News twenty five away
(22:56):
from one, You're with the Country, brought to you by Brandt.
He's the Latest and Rural News.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
The Country's world US with CULD Cadet, New Zealand's leading
right on lawnlower brand. Visit steel Ford dot co dot
nz for your local stoggist.
Speaker 6 (23:10):
Could iconic dairy brands like Anchor and Mainlanch soon be
under French ownership. The Australian Financial Review is reporting Fonterra
has granted dairy giant Lactalis exclusive negotiations to buy its.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Consumer arm Winston won't like that.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
He will not. Fonterra says the sales process as competitive
and confidential and it won't comment on speculation. Shane Soley
from Harbor Asset Management says Lictalis is a massive French
privately held company which already owns several Australian dairy brands,
as reportedly the largest dairy company, one of the largest
food companies in the world. And that's your rural news.
You can find more at the Country dot co dot nz.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Sport with AFCO visit them online at a fco dot
co dot nz.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And as we said today, mark's the fiftieth anniversary of
Sir John Walker setting a world record going under three
point fifty three point forty nine point four for the
mile in Sweden. Happy birthday, seventy seventh birthday to Dick
Taylor and just quickly the All Blacks will rest loose
forward Wallace Settiti for another week. The twenty two year
old missed the three Test series against France with an
(24:13):
ankle injury. Coach Scott Robertson says he'll be fit for
the second of two matches against Argentina next weekend. Right,
we're going from the meat industry to the forestry industry
and carbon farming up next to the oracle himself, Dennis Nelson.
(24:40):
One of the big stories out there at the moment,
and the Herald, to give it credit, has done an
excellent job over the past two days is on carbon farming.
The ETS farm to forestry conversion now beef and lamb
New Zealand says the government hasn't gone far enough on
carbon farming legislation.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
However, the self.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Anointed oracle of forestry, Dennis Neilson, a director of forestry
advisory and publishing firm Dana, says the farming sector has
been laying it on a bit thick, but he concedes
it has done a better job of lobbying than the
forestry sector. Are you admitting defeat, Dennis, Good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Good afternoon, mister mclai. I'm omitting success the forestry lobby
by large, according to advisers that Tommy directly earned directly.
Thrill the bits that new land planting on farms of
pine trees has come to a screeching halt and maybe
(25:44):
maybe forever, I don't know. And the people that owned trees,
the three owners, and Thrill the bits that that's happened.
So really not admitting defeatus of milling success.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Well that's not quite true, Dennis, because as it stands,
under the proposed new legislation which will come into law
later this year, any farmer out there can plant twenty
five percent of their farm in pines. I'm involved in
a dairy farming operation. We've got a runoff block worth
thinking of doing exactly that. Isn't it all about right tree,
right place? There's plenty of places to plant pine trees,
(26:16):
and let's be honest, you're planting them for carbon credits,
not for production forestry. But there's plenty of places to
plant them. But my beef with you guys, Dennis, is
you've been planting them on good food producing and in
some cases arable land.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
It's just not right.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Well, old Jamie, as I mentioned earlier, I don't know
if it was on the record or not, but my
calculations indicate that that forestry in New Zealand is five
times more efficient of earning export dollars than pastoral farming
is five times more efficient. So I don't know what
There's two definitions to get that get confused. One's carbon farming.
(26:59):
What's that? Who knows? I mean my apple trees at
the back of carbon farming because they're sequestering carbon. And
what's the difference between carbon farming and production of carbon
forestry and production forestry? Very confusing.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Well, i'll tell you what's they hang on, Dennis. I'll
tell you what the difference is my read on this,
and I might be wrong. You know more about forestry
than me. That some of these pine plantations will never
be harvested. That's what I call carbon farming. I'm all
for production forestry. It's our fourth biggest export earner, behind
dairy meat and horticulture.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
Yes, well, I don't know of any international investors. There
will be, but I don't know any who actually plant
trees with the express purpose of never harvesting them. They
don't in Europe especially and elsewhere. That's all production forestry,
and they expect to be production forestry in New Zealand.
That's my understanding. So I don't know who the people
(27:56):
who plant carbon forests are. They must be New Zealand farmers,
I suppose. I don't know. Now.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I note that you're saying, and I guess this is
credit to Federated farmers and beef and lambers. They've played
a better pr game than you because the government has
really taken note and done something about it. Some people
are saying it's closing the stable door after the horse
has bolted. But Dennis, what are you going to do
about some of this pristine farmland that has been planted
(28:23):
into pine trees which never should have been How do
we revert that back? Or do we ever revert that back?
Speaker 5 (28:29):
A very good question, Jamie. Right now, in most catchment
areas in New Zealand, because of regional councils, it's not
legal to change land use from forestry to farming. It's
not legal. It's illegal, and that's wrong. And I will
join you and joint venture and lobbing the government to
make it totally legal. If a farmer or a landowner
(28:51):
has freese on their property and they want to convert
it back to farming. That should be legal, and I'll
join with you in lobbying for that.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well we've seen we've seen a great example of that
on the Volcanic Plateau.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yes, with the Landcorp farms.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
Yeah, but that occurred before the restrictions came in, was
the runoff and nitrate restrictions. That would not be allowed today.
That would be illegal to do today. In fact, it
got stopped the land Corp farms and down close to
Waireki in North Tapo they had to stop doing that
because the law chained so they could not And it's
now legal to that conversion and should not be. I
(29:30):
think any landowners should have the right to convert forests
to farms if they wish. And i'ld join you and
join vega and lobbing whatever minister you want to, and
I'll come along to any meetings to help you do that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Well, that'll make my day now.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And the herald part two of the story was today
can't see the sheep for the trees? Ten years, one
hundred thousand hectares and nearly a billion dollars of foreign
forestry conversion. And it's and it's been mapped interestingly over
that period. I think the past decade only seven requests
to the OIO have been refused, so this has gone
(30:05):
on unabated.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
I haven't seen the Jamie Gray's today's numbers, but you've
seen them there whatever they are, and they are whatever
they are because the OIO they're official, and I think
that's worthy. We track since twenty ten, we track every
OIO approval or rejection at some three hundred and fifty
(30:30):
involving forestry. A lot of them have been forest sales
to forest sales, not new land. So I can't really
comment on those numbers. Jamie. You might repeat them, but
it doesn't matter. But that's happened, and that's history and stopped.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Dennis Nielsen with US Forestry Oracle self anointed. Good on
your Dennis, Always enjoy your imput you're claiming, or you
point out that large tracts of sheep farming country and
this is off the back of federated farmers Save our
sheep campaign, particularly in Canterbury and South and haven't gone
into trees. They've gone into dairying. And one of your
other mates provided me with cimonpho this morning, saying in
(31:07):
the two decades between nineteen ninety five and twenty fifteen,
dairy farming grew in land use, in land use in
terms of hectares by forty five percent. But once again Dennis,
putting the environmental imprint of that to one side. It
is going from food producing land to food producing land.
(31:28):
My beef once again is that we're planting or we
have been planting the wrong tree in the wrong place.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
That's a debate that will be permanent, and will agree
to disagree. I think very simple. I'm a simple person.
The person that should decide whether they plant a tree,
or grow a sheep or grow a dairy cow shall
be the landowner, not the government.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, and the farmer's got the right under this new legislation,
as I said, to plant up to twenty five percent
of their farm and forestry, which would be a smart move.
Get the carbon credits, grow trees on some of your
unproductive especially south facing land. But when it comes to forestry,
and I don't blame the production forestry industry here at all, Dennis,
because it's pure economics. You don't want to be planting
(32:15):
on steep land way out the back of beyond for
numerous reasons. But you want to be planting on our
rolling or even flat land close to a port makes
it more economic.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
It does, indeed, But that's not going to happen anymore.
But I fully support farmers and I always have. We
with Mike King of Interpine here and we had several
seven hours in twenty twenty one, twenty to twenty two
around New Zealand we asked beef and had to support us.
It was farmers can have their cake and eat it too.
(32:46):
They can actually have a farm, they can plant a
part of it in trees and actually be better off around.
So we've always supported farmers planting part of their farms
and trees always, and I ad my and you and
your team and your yourt venture partners, please plant part
of your farm and breece. It's fantastic. But I don't know.
(33:08):
I think our Minister believes that there's going to be
continuing high activity and new land planting even with these
new policy new policies becoming law and in place. I
don't necessarily agree. I think it will slow down considerably.
Just to ask the nursery people, who someone has to
order threes for next year to plant? No one's ordering
(33:29):
any three, not you, not anyone else. So I think
we'll have a slow down. Whether it's going to be
temporary or permanent, who knows.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Dennis Nielsen, I could check to you all day, haven't
got all day. I think the farmer and the forester
can be friends.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Absolutely agree, Dennis Nielsen. Thanks for your time.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Half away from One, Thanks Dennis, coming back with Phil
Duncan and some of your feedback, lots of it coming
in on the carbon farming ate Away from One, some
of your feedback. High mister Mackay. It's very polite of you,
Jared from Christchurch.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Gee.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I love Winston, no nonsense with that chap. I hope
he doesn't retire soon. I don't think in any danger
of that, Jared. I think Winston will die with his
boots on, as political boots on, if you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
I think there's a lot of life left in him.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yet, this guy Dennis Neilson, the text refers to as
obviously not been to Southland. Does this muppet realize we
can't eat trees, we can't eat export dollars? Says another
A Texter has an interesting one. There's a lot of
loging companies going broke at the moment, production forestry can't
(34:44):
be that good, and it's on a bit of a
low at the moment. You're dead right. Pine trees destroy
soils and biodiversity. I think that outweighs the prose of
pine forestry. Disagree with you there, right tree, right place.
It's very important industry for us, but we just don't
want to plant pine tree on high quality food producing land.
Up next, Phil Duncan, wrapping the country with our weather
(35:11):
man normally on a Monday. Today, on a Tuesday, Phil Duncan, Actually,
here's a good text coming. I just need to read
this one out. Kiewe farmers have paid a fortune through
osprey fees to eradicate TV only to have carbon forestry
let wild pigs, deer and possums undo all the hard
work that's been done. That is a good text, and
that is on and my difference with Dennis's some of
(35:34):
these forestry blocks are not being managed as a production
forestry block would be managed anyhow. If you know better
than that, text me on five nine, Phil Duncan's gonna
wrap it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Phil. It's pretty calm and.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Settled this week, but we've got a bit of a
pole of blast and a change coming, mind you it
is August.
Speaker 8 (35:53):
Yeah, gooday, Jamie. We've got high pressure over us at
the moment, bringing in some wet weather for Canterbury today
and a wet cold weekend for many sort of central
parts of New Zealand like Wellington and Canterbury, northern Canterbury.
So this week high pressure rolls in, frosty weather spreads everywhere,
or at least up towards Auckland and Northland. Then this
weekend we get a bit of a northerly change and
(36:14):
that blows away the Polary afloat for a couple of days.
But next week Monday, low pressure comes in from the
Tasman Sea and by Tuesday it looks as though we've
got a snow event coming into the South Island. At
this stage it's still a changeable forecast, but we are
predicting snow down to about two hundred meters maybe one
hundred meters in Otago, Southland and Canterbury South Canterbury early
(36:36):
next week rund Tuesday this time next week.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And not everyone will be disappointed with that forecast in
terms of the areas that have had too much rain.
And I'm particularly thinking of our friends in the Tasman
Nelson region. What's happening there.
Speaker 8 (36:48):
It's got a really good drying out phase over the
last couple of weeks. There is a chance that as
that low comes in from the Tasman next Monday, that
there might be some rain that comes into Tasman and Nelson.
At this it doesn't look like rain warning criteria, but
you ever know, normally wind low pressure worth monitoring. But
at this stage it's more about the cold change coming in.
(37:08):
Canterbury in the mountains may have snow for much of
next week. Not talking about low laying farming areas, but
up in the mountains themselves. The fact is you're an
indicator of sort of moisture and cold airflows going through
this week. But another big high is on the way,
so it's not all bad news.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, okay, well we'll take that. Phil.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Thank you very much for your time to appreciate your contribution,
albeit one day late, and that was my fault, not yours.
Speaker 8 (37:31):
No, it's all good, beautiful weather this week. I got
my feet up.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Good on you. There we go.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Phil Duncan from weather Watch, New Zealand's leading weather man.
I hope Chris Brandolina it's not listening when I say that,
oh I can't even read that text. Now, that's not
a bad shot. Actually, some of the best things have
said while the mics are off.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
We'll catch you tomorrow. Mike's on.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Catch All the latest from the Land Hits the Country
podcast with Jamie MacKaye. Thanks to Frent, your specialist in
John Deere construction equipment,
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