February 24, 2025 • 36 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Andrew Hoggard, Grant McCallum, Dr Vaughn Holder, and Phil Duncan.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Catch all the latest from the Land. It's The Country
Podcast with Jamie mckue. Thanks to Brent.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're specialist in John Deere machinery.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Can I New Zealand. Welcome to the Country. It's brought
to you by Brent Parol ROBERTA. Flackwell, she got to
eighty eight. It wasn't a bad innings. This is the
Fuji Fuji's Laurence Hill's cover of Killing Me Softly. It's
a very good one. Indeed, I don't know if I'm
going to kill them softly. I might go softly on them.
Today's Farmer Politician Panel to kick off the show, Andrew
(00:53):
Hoggard of course, Minister act Minister Grant McCullum, Northland, Kolkocky,
both of them, and regions Andrew and Manor Tu Grant
and Northland obviously, and we're going to ponder a whole
lot of things earlier this morning. And this is the
keynote interview for today. Make sure if you do nothing
else you listen to this one. Doctor Vaughan Holder. Okay,
(01:15):
this guy's all techs Kentucky based global research director for Beef.
Now there's a new feature length documentary out called World
Without Cows. I think it's premiering this week in New Zealand,
and they explore the seemingly simple question are we better
off in a world without cows? I'll ask these two
(01:35):
they're both cow cockies and Phil Duncan on the weather.
I would love to be the bearer of bad news
of better news, should I say? But if you're dry
where you are, chances are you're going to be drier
this time next week. So we'll update the weather for
you with Phil Duncan as well. Okay, but let's kick
(02:02):
it off with the Farmer Politician panel. Grant. I'll start
with you, not that you're my favorite, but I do
love chatting to you.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Now.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I know you've never put your hand in your pocket,
but have you ever put it on a staffer his arm.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yet? Jamie? No, I have not.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
No, of course not, and we'll go no. You're obviously
referring to the Andrew Bailey incident. Look, I think it's
really sad. Andrew has been a very effective minister the hold.
This is pretty sad, and I'm very sorry to see
that he's stepped aside.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
If he hadn't done the loser thing at the winery
or the Vineyard. This wouldn't be enough that this offense,
the hand on the arm, wouldn't be enough for him
to lose his ministerial position.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
There's a I wouldn't can't answer that question. He wanted
the Prime Minister to work through.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
But well he can't answer it either.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
In this day and age, Jamie, it's been to say
that people are quite rightly expect you'll be able to
go to work and not be abused in any way,
shape or form, if that's what it was. But so
look at it a difficult Ara. If you're really sorry
for Andrews because he's a good guy about quirky, but
a really good guy.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, interestingly, I think I was under Judith Collins' leadership
he was like finance spokesperson or something. He was right
on the front bench, so he was air marked for
greater things.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
No, you don't. And he's actually wound up in a
space where he's been doing some really good work because
he really understands that financial market terror in the commercial
rounities around it, and so he's hoping he can still contribute.
But from the back bench.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Ok, and you said a quirky character, Andrew Haggard, I
don't know how well you know Andrew Bailey, but this
is a guy who's trecked with his family I think
with one of his sons to the South Pole, been
to the North Pole, ridden a camel for one thousand
miles or something ridiculous like that. So he's got a
bit of energy.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think I only did about two
k on a camel when I was in the Middle
East and that was enough for me, so obviously shot
some perseverance. But yeah, I mean, it's just this is
the reality. Parliament hasn't got a great track record of
how people deal with their stuff, and politicians especially. I've
had some pretty bad horror stories from some of my
(04:16):
private secretaries and others about how things are operated in
the past. And you know, we need to hold ourselves
to a higher standard and yeah, not not treat people
like how it's how it's sort of been common in
the past. Yeah, we need to with a top place
in the country in terms of decision making, and we
need to reflect the stuff we talk about.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well today, Andrew, you're you're not in the house. I
think you're on your man or two farm. Correct me
if I'm wrong. Putting collars on cows. Perhaps what we
should do is what my father used to do when
he was training dogs when he was a dog trialis
get an electric collar and put it on you politicians
and give you a smack if you step out of line.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
What do you think, Andrew, Well, I do have six.
Here is a tarie that has a hard time finding
its way to the debating chamber.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Grant Jamie.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
You're full of wonderful ideas, aren't you know? What we're
worrying me is the number of volunteers you will be
to push the button.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Now, Andrew's putting collars on his cows. Do you want
to tell us what kind they are? Shameless plug time.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
I don't think I'm allowed to, Okay, okay, not just
say they're a New Zealand company.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well, good on you for supporting a New Zealand company.
Well done, Because the bloke who runs a dairy farm
around my duck ponds got the collars on. In fact,
he was on country calendar and I don't mind mentioning
the ones. He's using the whole of technology and it's
amazing the technology and the labor saving you can get
with these collars.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Yep, certainly is, and it's part of my decision making
on this. But also, you know, it's great here for
daring in terms of out and I don't think I'm
alone and putting some investment back into the farm to
improve server productivity. And I guess it just goes to show,
you know, there will be boost to the regions happening
(06:13):
because of the increased confidence in our real sector and
farmers getting a bit more money in the back pocket
through committed mdity prices, and that will help the whole
nation out.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, both of you farmer politicians, you have to spend
a lot of time off farm and it makes sense
to perhaps invest in this new technology labor saving devices
makes it easier for those who are left at home
to do the hard yards.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Yeah, that will be absolutely the case, Absolutely the case, Jamie,
And we're our farms on hold. Wait to see if
the road's going to go through the middle of it
before we work out our next level of investment. When
I'll find out a march where the routes for the
new road around the Brendeu wants are going.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
So well, hang on, isn't this a bit of a
conflict of interest for you? You're a part of the
governing coalition and you're going to make a fortune selling
your land to the government for a state highway grant.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
I'm assure you I'll be stepping well aside from the
proteus Furst point, good point. I don't think anyone's ever
made a fortune or dealing with the Public Works Act.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
No, no, now, okay, I'll go back to you. Andrew
Hoggart and the manor were two putting collars on your
cows today? How dry is it I'm looking at I'm
looking at the drought index map and you're not looking
too flash.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
Yeah, no, it's pretty dry. I mean it's not the
worst I've ever seen, particularly for this time of year.
Usually Fibbury is our driest months and going into March
usually we get a bit of rain around Central District's
field Douse. But yeah, it's yeah, the grass isn't moving much.
It's still I've still got a greenish hinge over much
(07:45):
of the farm, but it's certainly not done a lot
of growth at the moment.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Granted you're fearing no better in Northland.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yeah, well today I'm actually packed up just northway Kai.
How heading is quite tire and it's quite green here.
But over on the west coast, I drove out through
real wine arguable yesterday and it was very dry over there.
But that's you know, this is our dry time of year.
The k Q is kicking off. I can see where
I am now a little bit of rain, but over
on the west coast, yes, it's pretty dry.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
We fare to say, Andrew Hoggard Paris Accord, should we
do it? Trump, get you out of it?
Speaker 6 (08:19):
Well, look, if everyone's dropping out of it, and you know,
we're a tiny little country and certainly something we need
to be considering, what what what we hope to get
out of it. Quite frankly, I think multiple governments have
in the past have failed to properly, you know, argue
for agriculture and its difference and how it's treated in
(08:40):
the Paris Accord, because it's just gets lumped in with
everything else that's too producing and you know, no recognition
of split gas.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
I think, you know, if we're going to stay, we
need to fight really hard and talk to a bunch
of other countries that are agriculturally based to have a
much different setting for agriculture within it, because how it
is at the moment doesn't make a little sense.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, and hang on, folks, because shortly we've got a
very interesting interview with doctor Vaughan Holder, who's Kentucky based
Global research director for Beef for All Tech. He's got
some really interesting thoughts on this one grant this week
in New Zealand, World Without Cows is going to premiere.
I think in Auckland an invited few get to go
along and have a look at the premiere. Have you
(09:25):
been invited?
Speaker 7 (09:27):
No?
Speaker 5 (09:27):
I haven't, James, I just like to comment on the
Paris Accord stuff, yep. I just remind everybody that the
decision to raise our target the ten days or so
ago with a full cabinet decision which involved Act National
New Zealand first all members of the government and ultimately, yes,
we have to argue to get the best Dear, we
(09:47):
can internationally completely agree with that. But ultimately if pulling
out of it would lead would clearly lead to huge
trade implications, and I think people need to remember that
and ask themselves a question, how or do you want
to be if you go where near on your international
obligations in agreement?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Andrew Hogg got our farmers and I'm going to address
this with doctor Vaughnholder as well. But our farmers getting
well being dealt a dud hand when it comes to
a measuring emissions and be getting credit for subsequent seaquestration,
because I would I've argued all along and I'm no
scientists that mostly nearly all of New Zealand farmers are
(10:25):
carbon neutral or positive.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Oh look, I wouldn't be able to give you the
actual stats on that, but certainly I don't think there's
a lot of there's a lot of things that aren't
being counted in terms of the positive side of the equation,
in terms of that sequestration that needs to be done better.
You know, you think about the amount of pest control
work we do not only on our own farms, but
through the TB free program. Now that's killing possums that
(10:51):
not only spreading TV but also killing a lot of
native trees, so reducing sequestration. So you know, that sort
of benefits don't get counted and they should be counted.
So yeah, I don't think we really get a fair
deal in this whole thing. It needs a lot more work,
and agriculture just gets sort of viewed as a bit
(11:13):
of an after thought.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Often Yeah, I'd like to concur with what Andrew's saying there.
In the weekend I was at our Blue Greens conference
which a coach, heir and Methan. One hundred and seventy
people there, Jamie biggest ever, people who are concerned about
getting the balance right between the environment and the economy.
And it was a really good event, and we announced
some extra money for the Q two Trust to help
people increase the size number of area under Q two
(11:39):
two in one thousand hectare, second biggest national park in
New Zealand is on the private farms of New Zealanders.
We to celebrate that and people need to get the
rewards for the biodiversity, maybe biodiversity credits, maybe something we
can look at it.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And I applaud you for doing that. Okay, are the
banks too woke? Winston and Shane Wright, Andrew Hoggard.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
Well, don't forget my mate Mark Cameron is also being
in this drum as well. Look, banks should on my viewers,
you know, they should fund legal businesses. And I mean
an individual bank can make owns, an individual decisions, but
when they come together and they all decide we're not
going to do this or We're not going to do
that in the marketplace. You know, I've got a question
(12:22):
whether or not that's colluding behavior. And you know, are
there antitrust statements securing at these meetings? You know, I
sort of feel like, hey, if one bank wants to
be all woke and morally superior, good on them. But as
long as there's some other banks that are saying no,
if you're got a legal business, we're happy to bank you.
So yeah, I just think it should be each bank's
(12:43):
decision what they do and how they do business with
and the old saying go work, go broke. I teach
them a lesson.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, Okay, Grant McCallum talking about woke, not the banks,
but are the that's too these days are getting hang on,
let me finish the question getting your lunch cut? Are
you letting getting your lunch cut by the likes of Seymour,
Andrew Hoggard's boss and Winston and Shane.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Look, far be it for me to get into this discussion.
You're talking about my bosses, all three of them. I've
got to be We're very very diplomatic, but no, that's
the National Party has a very pragmatic approach to this.
We win elections by winning votes in the center. We've
got to win a whole lot of people's support, and
that's what we focus on. And that means focusing on
(13:31):
growing the economy and doing the things that and lowering
interistrates so people can make their household budgets works. Ultimately,
that's what people care about.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Final question for you, should we be worried? Yes or no?
Andrew Hoggart about these Chinese battleships and the Tasman Sea.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
Definitely worried about it. This is the first time since
World War Two, I think that foreign naval power has
that's probably is project did their power down our way
in a I guess sort of threatening stance. So it's
certainly something we need to be concerned about. And you know,
(14:10):
we need to be looking at are we investing enough
in our defense forces? Are we most importantly, are we
investing enough in the.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
People that are there.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
They've had a real high attrition rate over the last
few years and national lost a lot of capability. It's
going to take a lot of hard work to build
back up.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well, I can hear you. I'ming and ring and agreeing
in the background. Grant McCallum final word from you.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, I think it just highlights the challenge where the
country have got and working our way through the very
tricky international politics at the moment, with China being our
biggest trading partner, America being our guardian. You might want
to say, and it's really tricky stuff, but this is
really its concerning and we have to look at our
investments in the confused forces going forward.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Absolutely, and Grant, I apologize for suggesting at the beginning
of the interview you'd never put your hand in your pocket.
I've seen it once at the back Shabbah when we
were there for the National Lamb Day barbecue. Thank you great.
I enjoyed getting one back on you. Thank you very
much for your time. Andrew Hogard, Grant McCallum Today's Farmer
Politician Panel. There we go. It is twenty two after
(15:17):
twelve up next. I caught up with them a wee
bit earlier this morning. It's well worth listening to. Trust
me on this one. If you're a but not a
climate change skeptic, but if you're worried about where methane
sits in the whole picture and whether it's being measured
fairly and whether farmers are getting a fair crack of
(15:38):
the whip when it comes especially to the likes of
sequestration and the carbon cycle. You want to listen to
doctor Vaughan Holder, all techs, Kentucky based global research director
for Beef. He's up next talking about this feature length
documentary World Without Cows. Normally on the country when we
(16:15):
head to Lexington, Kentucky, it's to talk to our US
farm and correspondent Todd Clark, but today it's the turn
of doctor Vaughan Holder from all Tech. He's their global
research director for Beef. And the reason we're talking to
a Vaughan is because this week premiering in New Zealand
limited screening a documentary called World Without Cows? Are we
(16:39):
better off in a world without cows? Vaughn explained the
rationale behind this feature length documentary.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Yeah, so this was a little bit of a response
to something that we actually saw in the media several
years ago. It was actually the Super Bowl commercial which
was by a company called Oakley, which is an oat
milk or a milk's institute made out of oats. I
was singing about the advert was actually the CEO of
the company singing about no more cows, no more cows,
(17:09):
and how great that would be. And our CEO, Mark Lyons,
decided that let's investigate what that would actually look like,
what would actually happen if we did what this guy
was proposing and actually eliminate cows from the world. So
what Mark did was he hired a couple of journalists
to go in and actually independently evaluate.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
What would happen if we were to remove caps from
our world.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Now last night for my sons, and it wasn't it
wasn't an endurance at all. I sat through a thirty
six minute presentation you had on YouTube done in twenty
twenty two to the Ontario Sheep Farming Association and it
was really interesting. We're going to put the link up
on our social channels if you don't mind. And your
final slide was interesting. You said, agriculture has gone from
(17:55):
having the most important job in the world to having
the two most important jobs in the world, one feeding
the world to reversing climate change. Now, how do you
explain that because there's so much rhetoric about how ruminants
are ruining the planet.
Speaker 8 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think probably most importantly before we get
to the climate change pieces, to not forget that first piece. Right,
We're here producing food for the world, and that is
the job of agriculture in general. So I think that
we sometimes lose sight of that, and it's worth the
reminding people.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
How important that is to us as a society.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
But secondly, I think it's really the case, and it's
referring to some more recent research that's come out. You know,
when we look at the history of cattle specifically, or
ruminant animals, cattle and sheep, and the climate change conversation,
it's all been focused on emissions, right, how much methane
does this cow make, how much methane does a sheep make?
(18:53):
And how does that compare to fossil fuel emissions. The
problem with that is is that fossil fuel emissions are essentially.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
A one way highay, Right.
Speaker 8 (19:03):
We take carbon out of the ground, we burn it,
and it goes up into the sky, whereas animal emissions
are cyclical by nature. We use ecosystems to make food,
and we're just not measuring the other side of the equation.
We are both producing methane and absorbing CO two in
this process, and if we don't measure both the emissions
(19:23):
and the absorption of these carbon equivalents. We're only measuring
half the story. It's like having a trying to tell
what your bank balance is when you're only measuring what
you're spending and not measuring what you're earning.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
So it's the carbon cycle that you're talking about, and
you're dead right, we're only measuring one side of the equation.
Can I move on from the carbon cycle to sequestration?
Are farmers getting a fair deal on sequestration i e.
Everything on the farm that sequesters carbon and I'm talking
about grass and soil.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (19:57):
No, the answer is no, because I don't think that
we enough science to be able to predict that on
a large scale. And so this is the real issue
with us making policy decisions this early, and the understanding
of a subject is that we are going to make
the wrong decisions if we don't have enough science.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
To support what we're doing.
Speaker 8 (20:15):
So I think in some cases where it's been pretty
well established, some farmers are getting credit for this, but
I think for the most part they're not getting a
fair shake, at least in terms of diluting their emissions
with the sequestration that actually happens with grazing animals some
of the.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Key findings from this documentary humanity has a profound reliance
on cows. And I'll just quote three facts here. One
trillion estimated global market value of cattle and associated industries.
One trillion dollars I'm talking about here. This was a
state that surprised me, doctor Vaughnholder. One in ten people
(20:51):
depend on cows for their livelihoods. That's eight hundred million
people out of an eight billion world population. So those
are interesting states.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
Yeah, and that's just directly right, that's people who are
directly involved in agriculture and rely on it for their livelihood.
Every other person on the planet also depends on agriculture
for their livelihood, right, because we all eat food every day.
So that's that number is significantly get bigger. But yes,
it is eye opening to know that directly that many
(21:22):
people actually depend on agriculture as their first their first
option in terms of income.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
You're also saying, well, I saw in your presentation once
again going back to twenty twenty two, but I'm sure
some of this is replicated in the movie, that we
could not feed the planet without ruminants because they take
stuff non digestible protein, convert it grass and to food
we can eat. You know, we can eat grain, but
(21:48):
we can't eat grass.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Yeah, that's absolutely the case. And that's that idea of upsicking,
right they taking they are producing more food.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Than they're eating.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
And even folks will say that we shouldn't be feeding
grain to these animals, but they actually increase the nutrient
concentration of even the grains that we feed them. So
it is a critical piece of our food security picture.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
And in a world where the estimate.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
Is that more than half of the world's countries and
territories are currently protein and scure, it's a pretty important
role for these animals.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
And again unintended consequences. If we are talking about removing ruminants.
Speaker 8 (22:27):
From these pictures, it will create a devastating effect on
the global food security picture.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Doctor Vaughan Holder with us from all Tech, global research
director for Beef. We're going to take a break back
on the other side of it. We're going to look
at methane. Dr Vaughan Victim or Villain, welcome back to
the country and welcome back to Dr Vaughan Holder from
(22:54):
all Tech out of Lexington, Kentucky. He is the global
research director for beef. Let's talk about methane once again,
referencing your presentation to the Ontario Sheep Pharma. Sorry to
keep throwing it at Shoe, but I haven't seen the
film yet, and I've seen that now. Methane you're saying
only lasts on the atmosphere for twelve years. It's not
(23:16):
such a big deal. Or have I misinterpreted you?
Speaker 8 (23:20):
No, I don't want to know you haven't at all.
I don't want to minimize the impact of methane, because
methane is a really potent greenhouse gas, right, But we
have to just be careful with how we measure the
efforts of methane and the way that we're doing it
right now. And in a lot of government programs, they
are comparing methane directly to carbon dioxide, and these two
(23:41):
gases behave very, very differently in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide accumulates.
In fact, when you drive your car to work today,
you put out a certain amount of CO two.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
When you drive tomorrow, you double that.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
Right if your car was putting out methane. If you
drive the same distance every day and you excrete the
same amount of methane every day, the amount of warming
stay the same.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Over time.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
What that means is if we have stable herds of
cattle and sheep, we actually end up not having an
increase in warming over time. It also means that if
we take methane out that we end up having coop
over time, which is.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Really really important. So we've just got to be careful
how we handle it.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
It's not that it's not important. I just think it's
been mischaracterized by the media.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
You were talking about stable herd numbers. Well, I know
that the number of bovines in the world hasn't really
increased since nineteen ninety. Here in New Zealand. Incidentally, when
it comes to sheep and beef numbers, our emissions have
dropped by about thirty percent since nineteen ninety due to
attrition in our national flock and herd. So we're already
(24:50):
doing our bit. Why are we penalizing farmers for methane
emissions if the methane emissions are not increasing. Surely the
problem with global warming and climate changes, as you said,
man burning fossil fuels.
Speaker 8 (25:04):
Yeah, and that's very very clear. If you look at
the burden of the different gases in the environment over time,
the vast majority of the impact is due to CO
two accumulation, So that's without that goes without saying. But
I do think that we need think about methane as
an opportunity as well for us. Like I said in
(25:25):
that presentation, it is one of the only industries that
exists at the scale that can actually do something about
climate change.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So are they getting a fair shake?
Speaker 8 (25:34):
No, I don't believe so. But I also think that
doesn't mean we should just say we've done our bit
and that's the end of the story, because there's a
lot of opportunities with methane, and in fact you will
see that in the developed world as you describe in
the reductions in methane over time are pretty significant. But
as a global dry they ask all going up. So
(25:56):
the opportunity exists to go to the places where we
are increasing her numbers and do the same thing there
and we will have the same effect over time. So
there's a lot of opportunity in terms of addressing this
issue worth agriculture itself.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Tell me about the Buck Islands project.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yeah, this is a really interesting place.
Speaker 8 (26:14):
And I've mentioned probably a couple of times on this
interview that some of the areas of science are not
yet so notified.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
So this is a really interesting group of ecologists that
are working together with animal scientists in understanding what the
role of cattle are in ecosystems and the effect of
the ecosystems are on cattle. So looking at carbon sequestration
by the landscape, looking at emissions by the animals, and
what interventions we can do to manipulate that system right too,
(26:46):
so that we can increase the amount of carbon that
that ecosystem is taking up while simultaneously actually reviewing the
amount of carbon in the environment. And they've shown that
they can actually produce a calf crop in a carbon
negative of fashion. They have carbon negative beef out of
Buck Island.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
All this will be revealed in the documentary, the feature
length documentary World Without Cows, doctor Vaughnholder out of Kentucky.
How can we see it here in New Zealand.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
Yeah, so there will be at least limited screenings initially,
So if you can make it up to one of
our events that have a limited screening, you can go
to those, But otherwise you will have to wait and
see which streaming platform we end up on, because that
is eventually the goal for the movie to reach as
bigger audience as possible.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
As I said, you're in Kentucky. That is not an
American accent. Sounds South African to me. No hiding it.
I know you're a big Rugby fan, yep. Are you
looking forward to the spring Box losing or US continuing
our winning streak at Eden Park? We haven't lost there
since nineteen ninety four. We're playing you later this season.
It is going to be literally the game of the
(27:55):
century or the best game of footy between World Cups.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
I put to you, you.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
Know what, I'm quietly confident about that one. But this
is Eaton Park, so you guys have a pretty big
fortress over there, so you know what, whichever way that
game goes, it's going to be epic and it'll be
good for rugby in general.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
So I'm pretty excited about it. Now.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You realize the Springbok attack coach, former All Black Tony
Brown plays golf at our golf club, So we might
just do something to him, you know, I don't I
chuck something into his food or his corona. He's a
big fan of that. Just before the test. He might
get a bit of food poisoning.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
You guys just never going to let that one go.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It will be our version. It will be the Otago
Golf Club's version of Susie. Doctor Vaughanholder, thank you so
much for your time today. It's been a wonderful chat.
We'll put the link for your presentation up on our
social channels and I'm really looking forward to seeing this
feature length documentary World Without Cows asap.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Thanks so much, it's been great.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
There you go, Doctor Vaughnholder, and Michelle is going to
put that link up. Yep, it'll be on our Facebook
and I don't know how many social channels we've got.
Not really my gig, you see, the radio is my gig.
Michelle looks after that some of your feedback that interview.
Now that interview, now that's an interview. Should I say
that needs to be repeated every day this week? So
(29:15):
Peter liked the message from doctor Vornholder. Get with the program, McCullum,
poor old Grant mcnational's getting a bit of a caning
on the text line. Pull the pin on Paris, writes
our Texter, New Zealand should not fair not being able
to sell our lower missions ge Free Produce overseas. They'll
always there's always going to be a demand for it.
(29:38):
The plot thickens up. Next Rural News with Michelle, We'll
have a look at sports news before the end of
the hour. Don't shoot the messenger. We haven't got much
by way of good news for you when it comes
to the weather, particularly rain with Phil Duncan from weather Watch.
Please keep your feedback coming in on a text line
(30:04):
five double oh nine. We'll try and get through it
before the end of the hour. But in the meantime,
here's the latest and rural news.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
The Country's rural News with cub Cadet, New Zealand's leading
right on lawn Bower brand. Visit steel Ford dot co
dot z for your local stockist.
Speaker 9 (30:20):
The government is showing an interest in supporting bids to
establish the first herds of special interest in Aeterroa, as
hunter and conservation groups try to strike a balance in
managing introduced species. The Game Animal Council has been working
with the New Zealand Seeker Foundation, the Fiordland Wappadi Foundation
and others in conjunction with doc Department of Conservation to
(30:40):
try and get Central North Island Seeker Deer and Fiordland's
Woppity Elk labeled as HROSI, which is the Herds of
significant Interest and we'll find out more about that at
the Country dot Co dot NZ.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Does that apply to New Zealand as well? I'll get
in trouble for saying that, let's do sport.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Sport with AFCO Kiwi to the boat since nineteen oh.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Four, Sorry Booma rant Um Sport. Former New Zealand cricket
captain Ken Rutherford has been appointed as the Chief executive
of Northern Districts. Former All Blacks loose forward Liam Messim
will be on the start line for Saturday's Iron Man
in New Zealand and Tolpo. He is such a tough
(31:21):
bugger he'll go well. And Aleise Andrews what a champion.
How unlucky was the least to be up against Dame
Lydia and Dame Lisa for the Halbergs, But double Olympic
champion Eleise Andrews has forced another rewrite of the records
en route to a national track cycling title and in
(31:42):
the cargo. Her qualifying time of ten point four nine
to eight seconds is the fastest across two hundred meter
or across the two hundred meters sprint distance by a
woman in New Zealand. How good is she up next?
For Duncan? It is coming up to ten away from
(32:07):
one that you're with the country. It's not killing us
softly with the song, but he's killing us slowly with
his weather forecast. Fur Live. Note from your press release
where the watch excellent forecaster you are. You've put out
a press release this morning saying pot in short, if
it's dry where you are now, then chances it will
be even drier in a week's time. It's not very
(32:30):
good for the dry regions, mate, No it's not.
Speaker 7 (32:32):
And it's something I said actually a few weeks ago
when we kicked off this month, that dryer weather was
on the way. We've had a lot of high pressure,
and it's not just high pressure that's cracking over us,
but the strength of that high pressure ten thirty something
hecto pascals. So these highs are stretching from down towards
Antart to go up to the subtropics. So that's protecting
(32:53):
us and protecting is not maybe the right word, but
from those tropical rainmakers from coming down our way. So
we've got a very dry forecast for the next week
or two ahead some rain and two for j Audland
and Westland, and maybe Southland and a few other areas
might get some downpours around the North Island. If you
get a thunderstorm, you'll be happy, but that'll be a
(33:14):
minority of people. Most people are going to be seeing
a drive an average week ahead, which is why, yeah,
next week will be dry than where we are now.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Four warned, us fore armed. When do we see or
do we see some sort of change in the weather pattern,
especially for the dry parts of the North Island. I'm
assuming something's going to have to come from the tropics
to break their dry slash strout.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Yes, so in the next week that We've got three
tropical cyclones at the moment, or sorry two two named,
one north of New Zealand and one in the middle
is not named yet. These loads producing a huge amount
of rain are trapped by the high pressure belt in
the New Zealand Tasman area. So they come down and
they flirt sort of like they're going to bring all
(33:55):
this rain to us, and then they stop short and
doesn't happen. So we are not expecting yet any of
these tropical cyclones to come our way. In fact, our
headline and our video today is to get the cyclones.
It's all about anti cyclones because we've got these highs
coming through. It's bringing drought to Victoria, South Australia, parts
of New South Wales and I think you know, if
we don't get rain in the next two weeks in
(34:16):
New Zealand, we may start to hear a lot more
about that dreaded d word.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, I've got a mate in West Australia, they're having
one of their worst drouts on record.
Speaker 7 (34:25):
Yeah, very dry, although if you're inland in parts of
Western Australia, they've got some rain on the way in
the next week, more so than the tropical parts of Queenland,
which is kind of unusual.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Okay, PHL, thank you very much for your time today
on the country. Always appreciate it. Mate An apologies for
not getting time for yesterday. People can go to your
website where the watch dot co dot nz and have
a look at that latest press release. We're going to
take a break on the other side of it. We're
going to come back with some of your feedback and
tell you how you can win a thousand dollars cash
(34:55):
and one thousand dollars of Eco lab product wrapping of
our country. We've got a great promo going on with
our mates set to eco Lab. They're taking the weight
out of farm chemicals with their new solids range. So
(35:15):
what would it take to take some weight off you.
I'm not talking about over the bathroom scales, a weight
off your shoulders. Maybe a weekend off farm or new
golf clubs here, that's a good idea. If you would
like to take some weight off your wallet, head to
the country dot co dot nz and tell us what
would help you relax, and you're into one of a
thousand dollars worth of Ecolab products plus one thousand dollars
(35:37):
cash to take some weight off. Ecolab is available in
twelve kilogram acid and sixteen kilogram alkali boxes. Echo Lab
solids mean no more lugging big drums onto the ute.
You might say. Ecolab has your back. Lots of feedback
coming in. We can't get through it all. I'm going
(35:57):
to reply to some of it after one clock because
there's some excellent feedback. Jamie. Rice production produces a lot
of methane. Indeed, it does. Another one here about the
continuing purchasing of farms by tree companies. I know of
at least four sheep and beef farms sold since Christmas.
This is going to be an ecological disaster in twenty
(36:19):
or thirty years time. I agree with your Texter, especially
for the carbon farms. Right, catch you back tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Catch You're the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie McKay. Thanks to Brent, You're specialist in
John Deere construction equipment.
Catch all the latest from the Land. It's The Country
Podcast with Jamie mckue. Thanks to Brent.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're specialist in John Deere machinery.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Can I New Zealand. Welcome to the Country. It's brought
to you by Brent Parol ROBERTA. Flackwell, she got to
eighty eight. It wasn't a bad innings. This is the
Fuji Fuji's Laurence Hill's cover of Killing Me Softly. It's
a very good one. Indeed, I don't know if I'm
going to kill them softly. I might go softly on them.
Today's Farmer Politician Panel to kick off the show, Andrew
(00:53):
Hoggard of course, Minister act Minister Grant McCullum, Northland, Kolkocky,
both of them, and regions Andrew and Manor Tu Grant
and Northland obviously, and we're going to ponder a whole
lot of things earlier this morning. And this is the
keynote interview for today. Make sure if you do nothing
else you listen to this one. Doctor Vaughan Holder. Okay,
(01:15):
this guy's all techs Kentucky based global research director for Beef.
Now there's a new feature length documentary out called World
Without Cows. I think it's premiering this week in New Zealand,
and they explore the seemingly simple question are we better
off in a world without cows? I'll ask these two
(01:35):
they're both cow cockies and Phil Duncan on the weather.
I would love to be the bearer of bad news
of better news, should I say? But if you're dry
where you are, chances are you're going to be drier
this time next week. So we'll update the weather for
you with Phil Duncan as well. Okay, but let's kick
(02:02):
it off with the Farmer Politician panel. Grant. I'll start
with you, not that you're my favorite, but I do
love chatting to you.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Now.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I know you've never put your hand in your pocket,
but have you ever put it on a staffer his arm.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yet? Jamie? No, I have not.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
No, of course not, and we'll go no. You're obviously
referring to the Andrew Bailey incident. Look, I think it's
really sad. Andrew has been a very effective minister the hold.
This is pretty sad, and I'm very sorry to see
that he's stepped aside.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
If he hadn't done the loser thing at the winery
or the Vineyard. This wouldn't be enough that this offense,
the hand on the arm, wouldn't be enough for him
to lose his ministerial position.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
There's a I wouldn't can't answer that question. He wanted
the Prime Minister to work through.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
But well he can't answer it either.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
In this day and age, Jamie, it's been to say
that people are quite rightly expect you'll be able to
go to work and not be abused in any way,
shape or form, if that's what it was. But so
look at it a difficult Ara. If you're really sorry
for Andrews because he's a good guy about quirky, but
a really good guy.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, interestingly, I think I was under Judith Collins' leadership
he was like finance spokesperson or something. He was right
on the front bench, so he was air marked for
greater things.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
No, you don't. And he's actually wound up in a
space where he's been doing some really good work because
he really understands that financial market terror in the commercial
rounities around it, and so he's hoping he can still contribute.
But from the back bench.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Ok, and you said a quirky character, Andrew Haggard, I
don't know how well you know Andrew Bailey, but this
is a guy who's trecked with his family I think
with one of his sons to the South Pole, been
to the North Pole, ridden a camel for one thousand
miles or something ridiculous like that. So he's got a
bit of energy.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think I only did about two
k on a camel when I was in the Middle
East and that was enough for me, so obviously shot
some perseverance. But yeah, I mean, it's just this is
the reality. Parliament hasn't got a great track record of
how people deal with their stuff, and politicians especially. I've
had some pretty bad horror stories from some of my
(04:16):
private secretaries and others about how things are operated in
the past. And you know, we need to hold ourselves
to a higher standard and yeah, not not treat people
like how it's how it's sort of been common in
the past. Yeah, we need to with a top place
in the country in terms of decision making, and we
need to reflect the stuff we talk about.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well today, Andrew, you're you're not in the house. I
think you're on your man or two farm. Correct me
if I'm wrong. Putting collars on cows. Perhaps what we
should do is what my father used to do when
he was training dogs when he was a dog trialis
get an electric collar and put it on you politicians
and give you a smack if you step out of line.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
What do you think, Andrew, Well, I do have six.
Here is a tarie that has a hard time finding
its way to the debating chamber.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Grant Jamie.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
You're full of wonderful ideas, aren't you know? What we're
worrying me is the number of volunteers you will be
to push the button.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Now, Andrew's putting collars on his cows. Do you want
to tell us what kind they are? Shameless plug time.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
I don't think I'm allowed to, Okay, okay, not just
say they're a New Zealand company.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well, good on you for supporting a New Zealand company.
Well done, Because the bloke who runs a dairy farm
around my duck ponds got the collars on. In fact,
he was on country calendar and I don't mind mentioning
the ones. He's using the whole of technology and it's
amazing the technology and the labor saving you can get
with these collars.
Speaker 6 (05:51):
Yep, certainly is, and it's part of my decision making
on this. But also, you know, it's great here for
daring in terms of out and I don't think I'm
alone and putting some investment back into the farm to
improve server productivity. And I guess it just goes to show,
you know, there will be boost to the regions happening
(06:13):
because of the increased confidence in our real sector and
farmers getting a bit more money in the back pocket
through committed mdity prices, and that will help the whole
nation out.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, both of you farmer politicians, you have to spend
a lot of time off farm and it makes sense
to perhaps invest in this new technology labor saving devices
makes it easier for those who are left at home
to do the hard yards.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Yeah, that will be absolutely the case, Absolutely the case, Jamie,
And we're our farms on hold. Wait to see if
the road's going to go through the middle of it
before we work out our next level of investment. When
I'll find out a march where the routes for the
new road around the Brendeu wants are going.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
So well, hang on, isn't this a bit of a
conflict of interest for you? You're a part of the
governing coalition and you're going to make a fortune selling
your land to the government for a state highway grant.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
I'm assure you I'll be stepping well aside from the
proteus Furst point, good point. I don't think anyone's ever
made a fortune or dealing with the Public Works Act.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
No, no, now, okay, I'll go back to you. Andrew
Hoggart and the manor were two putting collars on your
cows today? How dry is it I'm looking at I'm
looking at the drought index map and you're not looking
too flash.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
Yeah, no, it's pretty dry. I mean it's not the
worst I've ever seen, particularly for this time of year.
Usually Fibbury is our driest months and going into March
usually we get a bit of rain around Central District's
field Douse. But yeah, it's yeah, the grass isn't moving much.
It's still I've still got a greenish hinge over much
(07:45):
of the farm, but it's certainly not done a lot
of growth at the moment.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Granted you're fearing no better in Northland.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yeah, well today I'm actually packed up just northway Kai.
How heading is quite tire and it's quite green here.
But over on the west coast, I drove out through
real wine arguable yesterday and it was very dry over there.
But that's you know, this is our dry time of year.
The k Q is kicking off. I can see where
I am now a little bit of rain, but over
on the west coast, yes, it's pretty dry.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
We fare to say, Andrew Hoggard Paris Accord, should we
do it? Trump, get you out of it?
Speaker 6 (08:19):
Well, look, if everyone's dropping out of it, and you know,
we're a tiny little country and certainly something we need
to be considering, what what what we hope to get
out of it. Quite frankly, I think multiple governments have
in the past have failed to properly, you know, argue
for agriculture and its difference and how it's treated in
(08:40):
the Paris Accord, because it's just gets lumped in with
everything else that's too producing and you know, no recognition
of split gas.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
I think, you know, if we're going to stay, we
need to fight really hard and talk to a bunch
of other countries that are agriculturally based to have a
much different setting for agriculture within it, because how it
is at the moment doesn't make a little sense.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, and hang on, folks, because shortly we've got a
very interesting interview with doctor Vaughan Holder, who's Kentucky based
Global research director for Beef for All Tech. He's got
some really interesting thoughts on this one grant this week
in New Zealand, World Without Cows is going to premiere.
I think in Auckland an invited few get to go
along and have a look at the premiere. Have you
(09:25):
been invited?
Speaker 7 (09:27):
No?
Speaker 5 (09:27):
I haven't, James, I just like to comment on the
Paris Accord stuff, yep. I just remind everybody that the
decision to raise our target the ten days or so
ago with a full cabinet decision which involved Act National
New Zealand first all members of the government and ultimately, yes,
we have to argue to get the best Dear, we
(09:47):
can internationally completely agree with that. But ultimately if pulling
out of it would lead would clearly lead to huge
trade implications, and I think people need to remember that
and ask themselves a question, how or do you want
to be if you go where near on your international
obligations in agreement?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Andrew Hogg got our farmers and I'm going to address
this with doctor Vaughnholder as well. But our farmers getting
well being dealt a dud hand when it comes to
a measuring emissions and be getting credit for subsequent seaquestration,
because I would I've argued all along and I'm no
scientists that mostly nearly all of New Zealand farmers are
(10:25):
carbon neutral or positive.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Oh look, I wouldn't be able to give you the
actual stats on that, but certainly I don't think there's
a lot of there's a lot of things that aren't
being counted in terms of the positive side of the equation,
in terms of that sequestration that needs to be done better.
You know, you think about the amount of pest control
work we do not only on our own farms, but
through the TB free program. Now that's killing possums that
(10:51):
not only spreading TV but also killing a lot of
native trees, so reducing sequestration. So you know, that sort
of benefits don't get counted and they should be counted.
So yeah, I don't think we really get a fair
deal in this whole thing. It needs a lot more work,
and agriculture just gets sort of viewed as a bit
(11:13):
of an after thought.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Often Yeah, I'd like to concur with what Andrew's saying there.
In the weekend I was at our Blue Greens conference
which a coach, heir and Methan. One hundred and seventy
people there, Jamie biggest ever, people who are concerned about
getting the balance right between the environment and the economy.
And it was a really good event, and we announced
some extra money for the Q two Trust to help
people increase the size number of area under Q two
(11:39):
two in one thousand hectare, second biggest national park in
New Zealand is on the private farms of New Zealanders.
We to celebrate that and people need to get the
rewards for the biodiversity, maybe biodiversity credits, maybe something we
can look at it.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And I applaud you for doing that. Okay, are the
banks too woke? Winston and Shane Wright, Andrew Hoggard.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
Well, don't forget my mate Mark Cameron is also being
in this drum as well. Look, banks should on my viewers,
you know, they should fund legal businesses. And I mean
an individual bank can make owns, an individual decisions, but
when they come together and they all decide we're not
going to do this or We're not going to do
that in the marketplace. You know, I've got a question
(12:22):
whether or not that's colluding behavior. And you know, are
there antitrust statements securing at these meetings? You know, I
sort of feel like, hey, if one bank wants to
be all woke and morally superior, good on them. But as
long as there's some other banks that are saying no,
if you're got a legal business, we're happy to bank you.
So yeah, I just think it should be each bank's
(12:43):
decision what they do and how they do business with
and the old saying go work, go broke. I teach
them a lesson.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, Okay, Grant McCallum talking about woke, not the banks,
but are the that's too these days are getting hang on,
let me finish the question getting your lunch cut? Are
you letting getting your lunch cut by the likes of Seymour,
Andrew Hoggard's boss and Winston and Shane.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Look, far be it for me to get into this discussion.
You're talking about my bosses, all three of them. I've
got to be We're very very diplomatic, but no, that's
the National Party has a very pragmatic approach to this.
We win elections by winning votes in the center. We've
got to win a whole lot of people's support, and
that's what we focus on. And that means focusing on
(13:31):
growing the economy and doing the things that and lowering
interistrates so people can make their household budgets works. Ultimately,
that's what people care about.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Final question for you, should we be worried? Yes or no?
Andrew Hoggart about these Chinese battleships and the Tasman Sea.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
Definitely worried about it. This is the first time since
World War Two, I think that foreign naval power has
that's probably is project did their power down our way
in a I guess sort of threatening stance. So it's
certainly something we need to be concerned about. And you know,
(14:10):
we need to be looking at are we investing enough
in our defense forces? Are we most importantly, are we
investing enough in the.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
People that are there.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
They've had a real high attrition rate over the last
few years and national lost a lot of capability. It's
going to take a lot of hard work to build
back up.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Well, I can hear you. I'ming and ring and agreeing
in the background. Grant McCallum final word from you.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, I think it just highlights the challenge where the
country have got and working our way through the very
tricky international politics at the moment, with China being our
biggest trading partner, America being our guardian. You might want
to say, and it's really tricky stuff, but this is
really its concerning and we have to look at our
investments in the confused forces going forward.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Absolutely, and Grant, I apologize for suggesting at the beginning
of the interview you'd never put your hand in your pocket.
I've seen it once at the back Shabbah when we
were there for the National Lamb Day barbecue. Thank you great.
I enjoyed getting one back on you. Thank you very
much for your time. Andrew Hogard, Grant McCallum Today's Farmer
Politician Panel. There we go. It is twenty two after
(15:17):
twelve up next. I caught up with them a wee
bit earlier this morning. It's well worth listening to. Trust
me on this one. If you're a but not a
climate change skeptic, but if you're worried about where methane
sits in the whole picture and whether it's being measured
fairly and whether farmers are getting a fair crack of
(15:38):
the whip when it comes especially to the likes of
sequestration and the carbon cycle. You want to listen to
doctor Vaughan Holder, all techs, Kentucky based global research director
for Beef. He's up next talking about this feature length
documentary World Without Cows. Normally on the country when we
(16:15):
head to Lexington, Kentucky, it's to talk to our US
farm and correspondent Todd Clark, but today it's the turn
of doctor Vaughan Holder from all Tech. He's their global
research director for Beef. And the reason we're talking to
a Vaughan is because this week premiering in New Zealand
limited screening a documentary called World Without Cows? Are we
(16:39):
better off in a world without cows? Vaughn explained the
rationale behind this feature length documentary.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Yeah, so this was a little bit of a response
to something that we actually saw in the media several
years ago. It was actually the Super Bowl commercial which
was by a company called Oakley, which is an oat
milk or a milk's institute made out of oats. I
was singing about the advert was actually the CEO of
the company singing about no more cows, no more cows,
(17:09):
and how great that would be. And our CEO, Mark Lyons,
decided that let's investigate what that would actually look like,
what would actually happen if we did what this guy
was proposing and actually eliminate cows from the world. So
what Mark did was he hired a couple of journalists
to go in and actually independently evaluate.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
What would happen if we were to remove caps from
our world.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Now last night for my sons, and it wasn't it
wasn't an endurance at all. I sat through a thirty
six minute presentation you had on YouTube done in twenty
twenty two to the Ontario Sheep Farming Association and it
was really interesting. We're going to put the link up
on our social channels if you don't mind. And your
final slide was interesting. You said, agriculture has gone from
(17:55):
having the most important job in the world to having
the two most important jobs in the world, one feeding
the world to reversing climate change. Now, how do you
explain that because there's so much rhetoric about how ruminants
are ruining the planet.
Speaker 8 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think probably most importantly before we get
to the climate change pieces, to not forget that first piece. Right,
We're here producing food for the world, and that is
the job of agriculture in general. So I think that
we sometimes lose sight of that, and it's worth the
reminding people.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
How important that is to us as a society.
Speaker 8 (18:32):
But secondly, I think it's really the case, and it's
referring to some more recent research that's come out. You know,
when we look at the history of cattle specifically, or
ruminant animals, cattle and sheep, and the climate change conversation,
it's all been focused on emissions, right, how much methane
does this cow make, how much methane does a sheep make?
(18:53):
And how does that compare to fossil fuel emissions. The
problem with that is is that fossil fuel emissions are essentially.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
A one way highay, Right.
Speaker 8 (19:03):
We take carbon out of the ground, we burn it,
and it goes up into the sky, whereas animal emissions
are cyclical by nature. We use ecosystems to make food,
and we're just not measuring the other side of the equation.
We are both producing methane and absorbing CO two in
this process, and if we don't measure both the emissions
(19:23):
and the absorption of these carbon equivalents. We're only measuring
half the story. It's like having a trying to tell
what your bank balance is when you're only measuring what
you're spending and not measuring what you're earning.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
So it's the carbon cycle that you're talking about, and
you're dead right, we're only measuring one side of the equation.
Can I move on from the carbon cycle to sequestration?
Are farmers getting a fair deal on sequestration i e.
Everything on the farm that sequesters carbon and I'm talking
about grass and soil.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (19:57):
No, the answer is no, because I don't think that
we enough science to be able to predict that on
a large scale. And so this is the real issue
with us making policy decisions this early, and the understanding
of a subject is that we are going to make
the wrong decisions if we don't have enough science.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
To support what we're doing.
Speaker 8 (20:15):
So I think in some cases where it's been pretty
well established, some farmers are getting credit for this, but
I think for the most part they're not getting a
fair shake, at least in terms of diluting their emissions
with the sequestration that actually happens with grazing animals some
of the.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Key findings from this documentary humanity has a profound reliance
on cows. And I'll just quote three facts here. One
trillion estimated global market value of cattle and associated industries.
One trillion dollars I'm talking about here. This was a
state that surprised me, doctor Vaughnholder. One in ten people
(20:51):
depend on cows for their livelihoods. That's eight hundred million
people out of an eight billion world population. So those
are interesting states.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
Yeah, and that's just directly right, that's people who are
directly involved in agriculture and rely on it for their livelihood.
Every other person on the planet also depends on agriculture
for their livelihood, right, because we all eat food every day.
So that's that number is significantly get bigger. But yes,
it is eye opening to know that directly that many
(21:22):
people actually depend on agriculture as their first their first
option in terms of income.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
You're also saying, well, I saw in your presentation once
again going back to twenty twenty two, but I'm sure
some of this is replicated in the movie, that we
could not feed the planet without ruminants because they take
stuff non digestible protein, convert it grass and to food
we can eat. You know, we can eat grain, but
(21:48):
we can't eat grass.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Yeah, that's absolutely the case. And that's that idea of upsicking,
right they taking they are producing more food.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Than they're eating.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
And even folks will say that we shouldn't be feeding
grain to these animals, but they actually increase the nutrient
concentration of even the grains that we feed them. So
it is a critical piece of our food security picture.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
And in a world where the estimate.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
Is that more than half of the world's countries and
territories are currently protein and scure, it's a pretty important
role for these animals.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
And again unintended consequences. If we are talking about removing ruminants.
Speaker 8 (22:27):
From these pictures, it will create a devastating effect on
the global food security picture.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Doctor Vaughan Holder with us from all Tech, global research
director for Beef. We're going to take a break back
on the other side of it. We're going to look
at methane. Dr Vaughan Victim or Villain, welcome back to
the country and welcome back to Dr Vaughan Holder from
(22:54):
all Tech out of Lexington, Kentucky. He is the global
research director for beef. Let's talk about methane once again,
referencing your presentation to the Ontario Sheep Pharma. Sorry to
keep throwing it at Shoe, but I haven't seen the
film yet, and I've seen that now. Methane you're saying
only lasts on the atmosphere for twelve years. It's not
(23:16):
such a big deal. Or have I misinterpreted you?
Speaker 8 (23:20):
No, I don't want to know you haven't at all.
I don't want to minimize the impact of methane, because
methane is a really potent greenhouse gas, right, But we
have to just be careful with how we measure the
efforts of methane and the way that we're doing it
right now. And in a lot of government programs, they
are comparing methane directly to carbon dioxide, and these two
(23:41):
gases behave very, very differently in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide accumulates.
In fact, when you drive your car to work today,
you put out a certain amount of CO two.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
When you drive tomorrow, you double that.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
Right if your car was putting out methane. If you
drive the same distance every day and you excrete the
same amount of methane every day, the amount of warming
stay the same.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Over time.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
What that means is if we have stable herds of
cattle and sheep, we actually end up not having an
increase in warming over time. It also means that if
we take methane out that we end up having coop
over time, which is.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Really really important. So we've just got to be careful
how we handle it.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
It's not that it's not important. I just think it's
been mischaracterized by the media.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
You were talking about stable herd numbers. Well, I know
that the number of bovines in the world hasn't really
increased since nineteen ninety. Here in New Zealand. Incidentally, when
it comes to sheep and beef numbers, our emissions have
dropped by about thirty percent since nineteen ninety due to
attrition in our national flock and herd. So we're already
(24:50):
doing our bit. Why are we penalizing farmers for methane
emissions if the methane emissions are not increasing. Surely the
problem with global warming and climate changes, as you said,
man burning fossil fuels.
Speaker 8 (25:04):
Yeah, and that's very very clear. If you look at
the burden of the different gases in the environment over time,
the vast majority of the impact is due to CO
two accumulation, So that's without that goes without saying. But
I do think that we need think about methane as
an opportunity as well for us. Like I said in
(25:25):
that presentation, it is one of the only industries that
exists at the scale that can actually do something about
climate change.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
So are they getting a fair shake?
Speaker 8 (25:34):
No, I don't believe so. But I also think that
doesn't mean we should just say we've done our bit
and that's the end of the story, because there's a
lot of opportunities with methane, and in fact you will
see that in the developed world as you describe in
the reductions in methane over time are pretty significant. But
as a global dry they ask all going up. So
(25:56):
the opportunity exists to go to the places where we
are increasing her numbers and do the same thing there
and we will have the same effect over time. So
there's a lot of opportunity in terms of addressing this
issue worth agriculture itself.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Tell me about the Buck Islands project.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yeah, this is a really interesting place.
Speaker 8 (26:14):
And I've mentioned probably a couple of times on this
interview that some of the areas of science are not
yet so notified.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Right.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
So this is a really interesting group of ecologists that
are working together with animal scientists in understanding what the
role of cattle are in ecosystems and the effect of
the ecosystems are on cattle. So looking at carbon sequestration
by the landscape, looking at emissions by the animals, and
what interventions we can do to manipulate that system right too,
(26:46):
so that we can increase the amount of carbon that
that ecosystem is taking up while simultaneously actually reviewing the
amount of carbon in the environment. And they've shown that
they can actually produce a calf crop in a carbon
negative of fashion. They have carbon negative beef out of
Buck Island.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
All this will be revealed in the documentary, the feature
length documentary World Without Cows, doctor Vaughnholder out of Kentucky.
How can we see it here in New Zealand.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
Yeah, so there will be at least limited screenings initially,
So if you can make it up to one of
our events that have a limited screening, you can go
to those, But otherwise you will have to wait and
see which streaming platform we end up on, because that
is eventually the goal for the movie to reach as
bigger audience as possible.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
As I said, you're in Kentucky. That is not an
American accent. Sounds South African to me. No hiding it.
I know you're a big Rugby fan, yep. Are you
looking forward to the spring Box losing or US continuing
our winning streak at Eden Park? We haven't lost there
since nineteen ninety four. We're playing you later this season.
It is going to be literally the game of the
(27:55):
century or the best game of footy between World Cups.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
I put to you, you.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
Know what, I'm quietly confident about that one. But this
is Eaton Park, so you guys have a pretty big
fortress over there, so you know what, whichever way that
game goes, it's going to be epic and it'll be
good for rugby in general.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
So I'm pretty excited about it. Now.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
You realize the Springbok attack coach, former All Black Tony
Brown plays golf at our golf club, So we might
just do something to him, you know, I don't I
chuck something into his food or his corona. He's a
big fan of that. Just before the test. He might
get a bit of food poisoning.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
You guys just never going to let that one go.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It will be our version. It will be the Otago
Golf Club's version of Susie. Doctor Vaughanholder, thank you so
much for your time today. It's been a wonderful chat.
We'll put the link for your presentation up on our
social channels and I'm really looking forward to seeing this
feature length documentary World Without Cows asap.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Thanks so much, it's been great.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
There you go, Doctor Vaughnholder, and Michelle is going to
put that link up. Yep, it'll be on our Facebook
and I don't know how many social channels we've got.
Not really my gig, you see, the radio is my gig.
Michelle looks after that some of your feedback that interview.
Now that interview, now that's an interview. Should I say
that needs to be repeated every day this week? So
(29:15):
Peter liked the message from doctor Vornholder. Get with the program, McCullum,
poor old Grant mcnational's getting a bit of a caning
on the text line. Pull the pin on Paris, writes
our Texter, New Zealand should not fair not being able
to sell our lower missions ge Free Produce overseas. They'll
always there's always going to be a demand for it.
(29:38):
The plot thickens up. Next Rural News with Michelle, We'll
have a look at sports news before the end of
the hour. Don't shoot the messenger. We haven't got much
by way of good news for you when it comes
to the weather, particularly rain with Phil Duncan from weather Watch.
Please keep your feedback coming in on a text line
(30:04):
five double oh nine. We'll try and get through it
before the end of the hour. But in the meantime,
here's the latest and rural news.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
The Country's rural News with cub Cadet, New Zealand's leading
right on lawn Bower brand. Visit steel Ford dot co
dot z for your local stockist.
Speaker 9 (30:20):
The government is showing an interest in supporting bids to
establish the first herds of special interest in Aeterroa, as
hunter and conservation groups try to strike a balance in
managing introduced species. The Game Animal Council has been working
with the New Zealand Seeker Foundation, the Fiordland Wappadi Foundation
and others in conjunction with doc Department of Conservation to
(30:40):
try and get Central North Island Seeker Deer and Fiordland's
Woppity Elk labeled as HROSI, which is the Herds of
significant Interest and we'll find out more about that at
the Country dot Co dot NZ.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Does that apply to New Zealand as well? I'll get
in trouble for saying that, let's do sport.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Sport with AFCO Kiwi to the boat since nineteen oh.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Four, Sorry Booma rant Um Sport. Former New Zealand cricket
captain Ken Rutherford has been appointed as the Chief executive
of Northern Districts. Former All Blacks loose forward Liam Messim
will be on the start line for Saturday's Iron Man
in New Zealand and Tolpo. He is such a tough
(31:21):
bugger he'll go well. And Aleise Andrews what a champion.
How unlucky was the least to be up against Dame
Lydia and Dame Lisa for the Halbergs, But double Olympic
champion Eleise Andrews has forced another rewrite of the records
en route to a national track cycling title and in
(31:42):
the cargo. Her qualifying time of ten point four nine
to eight seconds is the fastest across two hundred meter
or across the two hundred meters sprint distance by a
woman in New Zealand. How good is she up next?
For Duncan? It is coming up to ten away from
(32:07):
one that you're with the country. It's not killing us
softly with the song, but he's killing us slowly with
his weather forecast. Fur Live. Note from your press release
where the watch excellent forecaster you are. You've put out
a press release this morning saying pot in short, if
it's dry where you are now, then chances it will
be even drier in a week's time. It's not very
(32:30):
good for the dry regions, mate, No it's not.
Speaker 7 (32:32):
And it's something I said actually a few weeks ago
when we kicked off this month, that dryer weather was
on the way. We've had a lot of high pressure,
and it's not just high pressure that's cracking over us,
but the strength of that high pressure ten thirty something
hecto pascals. So these highs are stretching from down towards
Antart to go up to the subtropics. So that's protecting
(32:53):
us and protecting is not maybe the right word, but
from those tropical rainmakers from coming down our way. So
we've got a very dry forecast for the next week
or two ahead some rain and two for j Audland
and Westland, and maybe Southland and a few other areas
might get some downpours around the North Island. If you
get a thunderstorm, you'll be happy, but that'll be a
(33:14):
minority of people. Most people are going to be seeing
a drive an average week ahead, which is why, yeah,
next week will be dry than where we are now.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Four warned, us fore armed. When do we see or
do we see some sort of change in the weather pattern,
especially for the dry parts of the North Island. I'm
assuming something's going to have to come from the tropics
to break their dry slash strout.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
Yes, so in the next week that We've got three
tropical cyclones at the moment, or sorry two two named,
one north of New Zealand and one in the middle
is not named yet. These loads producing a huge amount
of rain are trapped by the high pressure belt in
the New Zealand Tasman area. So they come down and
they flirt sort of like they're going to bring all
(33:55):
this rain to us, and then they stop short and
doesn't happen. So we are not expecting yet any of
these tropical cyclones to come our way. In fact, our
headline and our video today is to get the cyclones.
It's all about anti cyclones because we've got these highs
coming through. It's bringing drought to Victoria, South Australia, parts
of New South Wales and I think you know, if
we don't get rain in the next two weeks in
(34:16):
New Zealand, we may start to hear a lot more
about that dreaded d word.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, I've got a mate in West Australia, they're having
one of their worst drouts on record.
Speaker 7 (34:25):
Yeah, very dry, although if you're inland in parts of
Western Australia, they've got some rain on the way in
the next week, more so than the tropical parts of Queenland,
which is kind of unusual.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Okay, PHL, thank you very much for your time today
on the country. Always appreciate it. Mate An apologies for
not getting time for yesterday. People can go to your
website where the watch dot co dot nz and have
a look at that latest press release. We're going to
take a break on the other side of it. We're
going to come back with some of your feedback and
tell you how you can win a thousand dollars cash
(34:55):
and one thousand dollars of Eco lab product wrapping of
our country. We've got a great promo going on with
our mates set to eco Lab. They're taking the weight
out of farm chemicals with their new solids range. So
(35:15):
what would it take to take some weight off you.
I'm not talking about over the bathroom scales, a weight
off your shoulders. Maybe a weekend off farm or new
golf clubs here, that's a good idea. If you would
like to take some weight off your wallet, head to
the country dot co dot nz and tell us what
would help you relax, and you're into one of a
thousand dollars worth of Ecolab products plus one thousand dollars
(35:37):
cash to take some weight off. Ecolab is available in
twelve kilogram acid and sixteen kilogram alkali boxes. Echo Lab
solids mean no more lugging big drums onto the ute.
You might say. Ecolab has your back. Lots of feedback
coming in. We can't get through it all. I'm going
(35:57):
to reply to some of it after one clock because
there's some excellent feedback. Jamie. Rice production produces a lot
of methane. Indeed, it does. Another one here about the
continuing purchasing of farms by tree companies. I know of
at least four sheep and beef farms sold since Christmas.
This is going to be an ecological disaster in twenty
(36:19):
or thirty years time. I agree with your Texter, especially
for the carbon farms. Right, catch you back tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Catch You're the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie McKay. Thanks to Brent, You're specialist in
John Deere construction equipment.
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