July 4, 2024 • 8 mins
Out of The BBC travelling with The England rugby team - Chris gives us his thoughts on the first test of two between The All Blacks and England.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
International rugby coverage on the Country Sport Breakfast is proudly
brought to you by Oceans, elevating you and your business
to a higher level. I've been speaking about it all
morning here on the Country Sport Breakfast. The first All
Black Test of the twenty twenty four season under the
Razor Robinson the Scott Robertson Era All Blacks hosting England
out of Dunedin's Forsyth Bar kickoff just after seven with
(00:23):
a commentary here on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio tomorrow night
joining us on the show. He's only been in Dunedina
a day or so from the Motherland. From the BBC
Chris Jones Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Chris, Yeah, good to be here. How are you guys?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Great mate. I suppose you'll be missing the English summer
and the elections and everything else that's going on over
the other side of the world.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, not too bothered about missing all the election stuff.
But yeah, coming from one of our longest days of
the year into the unforgiving Dunedan winter's been a bit
of an adjustment. But no, great to be here and
we're all really pubbed to Saturday. Right.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Let's start with England. Do you feel like the England
have you got the bidder of the All Blacks have
certainly been talking the game up, haven't they.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I think it's it's just feels like an opportunity, you know.
I think the England players and the squad have been
been careful of not trying to be too confident, but
trying to get across that they they've got a bit
of form behind them. You know, they had a good
win against Japan in Tokyo. They've played some sharp stuff
at the back end of the Six Nations. You you
compare that to New Zealand, who are going through a
(01:27):
period of transition with a new coach and you captain
a load of key players have moved on since the
World Cup. The All Blacks haven't played in eight months.
They have played six times in that period. So look,
it's New Zealand. In New Zealand, you'd be mad to
be overly confident as an England rugby support or anyone
who follows the England team. But it just feels like
they've got a chance here, which we maybe wouldn't have
(01:49):
said on previous tours.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And you've had a good build up because you based
yourselves in Auckland really didn't you until just a few
days ago. Then you flew to Duneed and you named
the squad early. So the preparation has been ideal.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And look at the preparation compared to when Clay England
last came down here in twenty fourteen. In twenty fourteen,
England had to go in two or three different groups
because there had some players playing in the Premiership final.
Seven days before the first Test, all those players weren't
able to play. They had to play a sort of
second string side, then bring back the the first and
(02:22):
it was messy. The players were tired, they had no
time to get together. This time it's a bit different.
They had two weeks into the Premiership finals that Japan game.
The author was able to pick the bolt of this
side that played in the sixth Nations. They've then come
over to New Zealand and had another two weeks, spend
a fair bit of time in Auckland, coming down to
the Nisans Thursdays, then have a stadium run Friday and
(02:45):
getting into it. So in terms of preparation, it couldn't
be much better. Look, you could say you want to
come and spend four or five weeks to the fair.
But when you look at the schedules and what the
players go through and how crowded it all is. For
England to a four gap between the Premiership final and
now and also to have that that that game in
Tokyo to tune up, I don't think England could have
(03:07):
had too much better a preparation And now it comes
down to where the mentally and physically they can they
can come and win at in a place as hard
as as New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Chris Jones Johnny's on the show out of the BBC.
So is it a typical English team playing through their
pat Chris.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Not so much. And this is what I think is
going to be fascinating from the weekend. You know, speaking
to the to the All Blacks on Thursday, some of
their players I think were expecting, you know, you're kind
of classic England kicking game and forward dominating side, but
this one has actually evolved their attack a bit over
the last few months. They don't have the power forwards
(03:44):
like they maybe used to have. To say at that
twenty nineteen World Cup with Billy and Mackover and a
polo and Carl Sinkler and guys in the midfield like
manage to a landing. So the team is not as
big and as kind of tradition physical as it maybe
has been in the past. They've got some's a dynamism
with points of difference. It's quite sort of uniquely unusual styles,
(04:05):
whether it's a Benner or a Chandler cumming himself or
a many fay were both say so, A lot of
players that he's been in public won't know too much
about the players that do have a little bit of
X factor. So yeah, I wouldn't say it's going to
be a typical English side. It might be in the
side that does attack that little bit more. But I'll
need to get the physical side of the game right
because they are glad to be gun into in that area.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And I guess we'll have to watch the man wearing
the number ten Jersey wor'te with Marcus Smith as he
the man going forward that could be a danger man
to watch.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Such a big game this made for Marcus Smith, I'll
tell you what. Because George Ford with his ninety odd
caps and Own Farrell with his one hundred plus, they've
been dominating that England ten Jersey going back what ten
twelve years, but Farrell's no longer on the scene. Ford
is injured and the door is open for Marcus Smith.
Marcus Smith's twenty five, He's got thirty two, thirty three caps.
(04:57):
It feels now is his time. If he's going to
be England's long term ten, win ninety hundred caps and
put himself into the annals of kind of great English
number ten, alongside Fowl, alongside Forward, alongside Johnny Wilkinson. Then
stages like Saturday, stages like Eden Parks a week Saturday,
those are where he can really start to ascend into
(05:18):
that kind of position. At the moment of his national
career hasn't quite exploded into life. He's done some really
good stuff, but it's been more moments, more kind of
little cameos here and there. He's not kind of commanded
the jersey and a lot of that's not his fault.
He's just Ford and foul around. But this talk could
be when Marcus Smith takes that step up, and no
better place to try and prove himself as a kind
(05:39):
of long term option at number ten than the need
in this weekend and all the next the.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Old Blake selector Scott Roberson. They named the first team yesterday.
On paper, do you see gaps in the lineup that
the English might target?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, potentially. I mean there's no there's no Barnier Catalite,
there's no Sam Whitelock. You know, there's no Aaron Smith.
There is TJ. Perrinara. I think Damian McKenzie. For a
lot of us who have watched a fair but the
Super rugby and been blown away by the attacking prowess
of mackenzie, that's often come from fallback. I don't think
that everyone is completely convinced that he's a Test ten.
(06:12):
Vodabara on the bench I think has raised a few eyebrows.
I mean, no one's got any doubt that Damian against
the Test player. It's just whereabouts and I feel there's
a lot of pressure him in number ten, which maybe
it's influenced why Robinson picks the experience of TJ. Perrinara
at nine. But yes, so many fascinating areas did a
strong front row. Any team with artists Afar in it
(06:33):
is going to be going to be a cut back
because Savar is one of the best I've ever seen.
But I don't think it's a kind of new deeding
team that you look at like you maybe worth done
over the last ten to fifteen years and done well.
There are no gaps there. Perhaps one or two areas
in England might be able to get at Chris, what's.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
To say to the game like in England? I mean
we've seen I think something like three teams going into
administration over the COVID years. Is it still in a
healthy state?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Would say healthy. I'd say it's kind of getting back
to health. Maybe not as similar to what's been going
on down here. We had an audience with Mark Robinson,
the boss and he's seen in rugby when he said, look,
it's been a tough few years, but Super Rugby started
to stay alive and attendances of going up, and that's
kind of been the story in England. It is a
horrible campaign. The season before last when those three teams
(07:20):
went bass Wasps Worcester and London aresh but the last
domestic campaign was positive. The ten team league might not
be ideal going forward, but it certainly meant a concentration
of talent from those clubs that went bove. A lot
of those players got involved in other clubs and ended
up making Premiership Finals and the like. So, look, the
game's not up the woods. COVID took its toll. There's
(07:41):
a lot of the game to deal with in all
corners of the globe, but certainly the last six months
to twelve months it's seen a consolidation period and things
don't look quite sadly as they maybe did immediately post COVID.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
All right, Chris Gays in your crystal ball, which team's
going to be shouting the beers on Saturday night at
the end of the teat match mate.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Look, if I'm putting if I'm putting money on it,
you've got to go for the All Blacks. It's New
Zealand at home. You'd be mad to get it better
against them. But you just feel, you just feel if big,
if England are going to ever win a Test match
in New Zealand, Saturday might be the time. The All
Blacks have got a new coach and new captain, a
new set of players. They've been together ten days, England
(08:21):
have been together four weeks. I'm not saying England are
going to do it, but you feel if they're going
to win a Test this summer or your winter, it
has to be Saturday. Given come next Saturday, the All
Blacks are a bit longer together. Those cobwebs may have
been blown away. The Robertson you know, influence or staffing
stuff a little bit more an. It's Eden Park and
(08:41):
no one wins to Eden Park, so I think if
England are gonna win, it's got to come into even
this weekend.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Fantastic. Hey Chris, thanks for giving up your time and
joining us on the show.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Go well anytime you guys do speak soon Chris
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Jones joining us out of the BBC
International rugby coverage on the Country Sport Breakfast is proudly
brought to you by Oceans, elevating you and your business
to a higher level. I've been speaking about it all
morning here on the Country Sport Breakfast. The first All
Black Test of the twenty twenty four season under the
Razor Robinson the Scott Robertson Era All Blacks hosting England
out of Dunedin's Forsyth Bar kickoff just after seven with
(00:23):
a commentary here on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio tomorrow night
joining us on the show. He's only been in Dunedina
a day or so from the Motherland. From the BBC
Chris Jones Morning.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Chris, Yeah, good to be here. How are you guys?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Great mate. I suppose you'll be missing the English summer
and the elections and everything else that's going on over
the other side of the world.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, not too bothered about missing all the election stuff.
But yeah, coming from one of our longest days of
the year into the unforgiving Dunedan winter's been a bit
of an adjustment. But no, great to be here and
we're all really pubbed to Saturday. Right.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Let's start with England. Do you feel like the England
have you got the bidder of the All Blacks have
certainly been talking the game up, haven't they.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I think it's it's just feels like an opportunity, you know.
I think the England players and the squad have been
been careful of not trying to be too confident, but
trying to get across that they they've got a bit
of form behind them. You know, they had a good
win against Japan in Tokyo. They've played some sharp stuff
at the back end of the Six Nations. You you
compare that to New Zealand, who are going through a
(01:27):
period of transition with a new coach and you captain
a load of key players have moved on since the
World Cup. The All Blacks haven't played in eight months.
They have played six times in that period. So look,
it's New Zealand. In New Zealand, you'd be mad to
be overly confident as an England rugby support or anyone
who follows the England team. But it just feels like
they've got a chance here, which we maybe wouldn't have
(01:49):
said on previous tours.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And you've had a good build up because you based
yourselves in Auckland really didn't you until just a few
days ago. Then you flew to Duneed and you named
the squad early. So the preparation has been ideal.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
And look at the preparation compared to when Clay England
last came down here in twenty fourteen. In twenty fourteen,
England had to go in two or three different groups
because there had some players playing in the Premiership final.
Seven days before the first Test, all those players weren't
able to play. They had to play a sort of
second string side, then bring back the the first and
(02:22):
it was messy. The players were tired, they had no
time to get together. This time it's a bit different.
They had two weeks into the Premiership finals that Japan game.
The author was able to pick the bolt of this
side that played in the sixth Nations. They've then come
over to New Zealand and had another two weeks, spend
a fair bit of time in Auckland, coming down to
the Nisans Thursdays, then have a stadium run Friday and
(02:45):
getting into it. So in terms of preparation, it couldn't
be much better. Look, you could say you want to
come and spend four or five weeks to the fair.
But when you look at the schedules and what the
players go through and how crowded it all is. For
England to a four gap between the Premiership final and
now and also to have that that that game in
Tokyo to tune up, I don't think England could have
(03:07):
had too much better a preparation And now it comes
down to where the mentally and physically they can they
can come and win at in a place as hard
as as New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Chris Jones Johnny's on the show out of the BBC.
So is it a typical English team playing through their
pat Chris.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Not so much. And this is what I think is
going to be fascinating from the weekend. You know, speaking
to the to the All Blacks on Thursday, some of
their players I think were expecting, you know, you're kind
of classic England kicking game and forward dominating side, but
this one has actually evolved their attack a bit over
the last few months. They don't have the power forwards
(03:44):
like they maybe used to have. To say at that
twenty nineteen World Cup with Billy and Mackover and a
polo and Carl Sinkler and guys in the midfield like
manage to a landing. So the team is not as
big and as kind of tradition physical as it maybe
has been in the past. They've got some's a dynamism
with points of difference. It's quite sort of uniquely unusual styles,
(04:05):
whether it's a Benner or a Chandler cumming himself or
a many fay were both say so, A lot of
players that he's been in public won't know too much
about the players that do have a little bit of
X factor. So yeah, I wouldn't say it's going to
be a typical English side. It might be in the
side that does attack that little bit more. But I'll
need to get the physical side of the game right
because they are glad to be gun into in that area.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And I guess we'll have to watch the man wearing
the number ten Jersey wor'te with Marcus Smith as he
the man going forward that could be a danger man
to watch.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Such a big game this made for Marcus Smith, I'll
tell you what. Because George Ford with his ninety odd
caps and Own Farrell with his one hundred plus, they've
been dominating that England ten Jersey going back what ten
twelve years, but Farrell's no longer on the scene. Ford
is injured and the door is open for Marcus Smith.
Marcus Smith's twenty five, He's got thirty two, thirty three caps.
(04:57):
It feels now is his time. If he's going to
be England's long term ten, win ninety hundred caps and
put himself into the annals of kind of great English
number ten, alongside Fowl, alongside Forward, alongside Johnny Wilkinson. Then
stages like Saturday, stages like Eden Parks a week Saturday,
those are where he can really start to ascend into
(05:18):
that kind of position. At the moment of his national
career hasn't quite exploded into life. He's done some really
good stuff, but it's been more moments, more kind of
little cameos here and there. He's not kind of commanded
the jersey and a lot of that's not his fault.
He's just Ford and foul around. But this talk could
be when Marcus Smith takes that step up, and no
better place to try and prove himself as a kind
(05:39):
of long term option at number ten than the need
in this weekend and all the next the.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Old Blake selector Scott Roberson. They named the first team yesterday.
On paper, do you see gaps in the lineup that
the English might target?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, potentially. I mean there's no there's no Barnier Catalite,
there's no Sam Whitelock. You know, there's no Aaron Smith.
There is TJ. Perrinara. I think Damian McKenzie. For a
lot of us who have watched a fair but the
Super rugby and been blown away by the attacking prowess
of mackenzie, that's often come from fallback. I don't think
that everyone is completely convinced that he's a Test ten.
(06:12):
Vodabara on the bench I think has raised a few eyebrows.
I mean, no one's got any doubt that Damian against
the Test player. It's just whereabouts and I feel there's
a lot of pressure him in number ten, which maybe
it's influenced why Robinson picks the experience of TJ. Perrinara
at nine. But yes, so many fascinating areas did a
strong front row. Any team with artists Afar in it
(06:33):
is going to be going to be a cut back
because Savar is one of the best I've ever seen.
But I don't think it's a kind of new deeding
team that you look at like you maybe worth done
over the last ten to fifteen years and done well.
There are no gaps there. Perhaps one or two areas
in England might be able to get at Chris, what's.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
To say to the game like in England? I mean
we've seen I think something like three teams going into
administration over the COVID years. Is it still in a
healthy state?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Would say healthy. I'd say it's kind of getting back
to health. Maybe not as similar to what's been going
on down here. We had an audience with Mark Robinson,
the boss and he's seen in rugby when he said, look,
it's been a tough few years, but Super Rugby started
to stay alive and attendances of going up, and that's
kind of been the story in England. It is a
horrible campaign. The season before last when those three teams
(07:20):
went bass Wasps Worcester and London aresh but the last
domestic campaign was positive. The ten team league might not
be ideal going forward, but it certainly meant a concentration
of talent from those clubs that went bove. A lot
of those players got involved in other clubs and ended
up making Premiership Finals and the like. So, look, the
game's not up the woods. COVID took its toll. There's
(07:41):
a lot of the game to deal with in all
corners of the globe, but certainly the last six months
to twelve months it's seen a consolidation period and things
don't look quite sadly as they maybe did immediately post COVID.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
All right, Chris Gays in your crystal ball, which team's
going to be shouting the beers on Saturday night at
the end of the teat match mate.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Look, if I'm putting if I'm putting money on it,
you've got to go for the All Blacks. It's New
Zealand at home. You'd be mad to get it better
against them. But you just feel, you just feel if big,
if England are going to ever win a Test match
in New Zealand, Saturday might be the time. The All
Blacks have got a new coach and new captain, a
new set of players. They've been together ten days, England
(08:21):
have been together four weeks. I'm not saying England are
going to do it, but you feel if they're going
to win a Test this summer or your winter, it
has to be Saturday. Given come next Saturday, the All
Blacks are a bit longer together. Those cobwebs may have
been blown away. The Robertson you know, influence or staffing
stuff a little bit more an. It's Eden Park and
(08:41):
no one wins to Eden Park, so I think if
England are gonna win, it's got to come into even
this weekend.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Fantastic. Hey Chris, thanks for giving up your time and
joining us on the show.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Go well anytime you guys do speak soon Chris
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Jones joining us out of the BBC
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