August 21, 2024 • 10 mins
The America's Cup preliminaries get underway tonight in Barcelona. Former NZ and World Champion sailor Mark Orams joins Craig Cumming to chat how the teams are looking for the new AC75 boats.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, the America's Cup is about to get underway, the
thirty seventh edition. We've got the preliminary regatta are happening
or starting overnight, joining us now as renowned successful say,
let respect the Scott Mark Orm's Good morning, Mark, morning, Craig.
Looking forward to you telling us that we're going to
win this thing even though we feel a little bit disconnected.
I just need you to give me confidence. Our boats
fast and the others are just going to fight out
(00:21):
for second place.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah. Well, of course it's never done until it's done.
This it's just a full of preliminary regatta, but it
will give us a really good test of where the
kiwis are at compared to the challenges at the moment.
All of the intel that I'm getting suggested that the
Kiwis are quick and probably step ahead of everybody else,
(00:43):
with the one exception of the Italians and Lunar Rossa
Prataparelli who seemed to be on the place as well.
And then there's a bit of a chasing peck. But
it's never over till it's over. But good news so far,
and that we'll get a good sense with good bree
Sport casts overnight tonight in Barcelona, and it'll it'll give
us a good test because first up of the new
(01:05):
challenges the Source and the French, and then we've got
the finalist Saw America's Cup competitors from last time, and
now Italian mates and Jimmy Spittle up against Emirates to
New Zealand and the second races.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, we start to get reminded now, Mark about the
old rivalries, don't we And when you talk about the Swiss,
they haven't been involved, but they've also had their challenges.
Was it only a couple of days ago they broke
the second mast? And I heard this morning you're our
two new masks and an old mass, So how are
they going to? Are they going to line up in this?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Reget it? Yes, I've been sailing just to overnight our
time of the day before with their old mask, so
you're allowed to new masks, you're quite right. And unfortunately
they've had structural failures and broken both of them. So
to break your race mask that you were just basically
betting in ready for the regatta only twenty minutes into
(01:54):
its first ever time out sailing suggests that they've got
a significant engineering issue with those year rigs and putting
the old mast on it never going to be as good,
and so they've got a bit on at the moment,
do a lingy and it'll be interesting to see how
they shape up. But I expect them to really just
(02:15):
be using this preliminary gat to kind of rebuild their
confidence and get themselves back on track. But they don't
have enough time really to repair the break. It was
a major one, so they will be using that old
mast right throughout this preliminary gaddon does.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That show that if you've done too then maybe you
know when it comes to the configuration, and these things
are just so high tech, but you know if something's
breaking and there's a constant that happens, that maybe there
is something wrong when it comes to uppose the dynamics
of the.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Boat, well, I think it's probably it's more likely given
if it's one. If it's just one rigged, then it
can potentially be something to do with the construction where
they had some kind of issue with the laminates or
or something that caused structural weakness. But the fact that
it's been two means that it's actually an engineering design
issue in my view, So they're going to have to
(03:08):
really go back and have a look at what their
laminate structural design was. It obviously wasn't strong enough and
then they're going to have to try and do a repair.
Now a repair is possible, but it takes quite a
long period of time and inevitably it makes the mask heavier.
So whether they've got enough time or not, this preliminary
(03:29):
to get it doesn't count to points, yes, but it's
only a week away from the first round robins of
the Challenger series itself, so they haven't got much time.
I'd be very surprised if unless they prepared that first
broken mast, which they broke almost three months ago. Now
I think the second broken mask does not repeable in
time for the start of the Challenger series.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
What do we need to do there?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So you know I'm the novice sitting at home. We
become experts, though, don't we, unlike yourself who is one
when it comes to watching and we've just had it
with the Olympics. But you know the start? How important
is that the start? Like if you are behind you
know once upon a time you used to know, you
know the distance where you can come back. So what
do we need to know when it comes from the
start and where we need to be when it comes
to each lead, because things happen pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, it's a good observation that the start in sailing
is always absolutely critical, even if you've got a faster boat.
If you've got your opponent in front of you, they
can really control the race from there, particularly in these
modern America's Cup races where they put boundaries in place,
and that means you're restricted in terms of where you
can go, which gives the advantage even more to the
(04:35):
bot in front of the start line, so you're really
you're passing. Opportunities come with the gates or the two
marks at the top and the bottom of the course.
The lead boat we'll pick one, and if you're the
trailing boat, you'll always try and engineer it so that
you can take the opposite mark, and that gives you
a bit of a split and the opportunity to find
different breeze, different conditions and perhaps manufacture of pass or
(05:00):
bring your speed into play if you're a faster boat.
So we need to certainly walk the kiwis, who by
all accounts are quite quick. We'll be looking for us
to get off to start clean and then if they
can get in front with their speed, they'll just control
from there and probably stretch. If they're behind, they'll try
(05:20):
and engineer a split around one of the marks and
then again use their speed to manufacture a pass. It's
the oldest sort of truism in the America's Cup that
the fastest boat eventually wins. But it is harder now
with the constrained courses, and so it is possible for
a slower boat to keep a faster boat behind with
(05:41):
the boundaries if they sail really really well.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Right and also like condition wise over there, you know,
when it comes to variations the Hiraki golf, we know that.
You know it can be from eight not's up to
twenty and you know the boats we saw it last time.
But what do we expect out of Barcelona is a
constant breeze and will it be the same along or
will there be big if some you know, for teams
that may be out of it and they do get
that split to be able to claw their way back.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah. At the moment, we're sort of coming to the
end of summer over there, it's still reasonably consistent. The
forecast for the first three days of this preliminary gatherer.
A south southwesterlies in the teams. By that I mean
sort of somewhere between thirteen and fifteen sixteen knots, so
that that's really good breeze for these boats. You'll see
them ripping along. And by the way, that they're going
(06:26):
well over fifty knots now, so that's one hundred kilometers
an hour as the power of the wind. So just
just think about that.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, I look back at even when you were involved,
you back. I mean, you know, I'm old enough to
remember even caged seven back in Fremantle. But it's just
you know, we know evolution is so quick, but is
this probably I look at the America's Cup, this is
probably the one that's gone from zero to one hundred
the most innovation, the quickest development than probably any sport
(06:54):
around the world. To think that they're doing one hundred
k and out on these yachts is just unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It is incredible. And the thing that's made the massive
difference is getting them on foils. As soon as you're
able to get up on the hydrofoils, all of that
drag that sits when a boat is in the water,
it is suddenly gone. And so what we're seeing now
is the foils are becoming smaller and smaller. And if
you have a look at these boats, you'll see the
huge amount of attention pay to aerodynamic drag, so that
(07:22):
they are very much And this is why we've got
Formula one team sitting in beside behind in some of
these teams is because the arrow part of it is
so important. Basically, the only thing that stops these boats
going faster as drag, and so you'll hardly even see
the sailors. You'll see the little peaks of their helmets
so that they can see where they're going because they're
(07:43):
just dropping them down out of the aerodynamic drag that
will slow them down. And there's a huge amount of
attention pay to that and the design and the sailing
of the boats. But yes, they are an incredible, incredible machine.
And the evolution since we've gone on foils is just stepping.
It makes me wonder where it's going to stop. Oh,
it's going to eventually end up with sort of completely
(08:05):
flying yachts using ground effect or something. But it is
quite incredible the development over the last decade.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So also though there is still a sailing element. Doesn't
it that you still need to have good sailors. I mean,
we do, we know that, but you still need to
have sailing elements involved as well.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, But these sailors are very different than the
sailors of my generation. You point it back to K seven.
I mean that was very much an on water chess
game where it just sort of unfolded very slowly over
sometimes an hour. But these boats and the races go
through in fifteen minutes or so, and so the sort
(08:43):
of sailors as Peter Berling and Nathan Alteridge the co
helms of the New Zealand boat, they're very much like
fighter pilots. They just have to be incredibly calm. They
have to be clear in their communications, they have to
be crystal in their decision making, and they have to
have nerves of steel because these things are going so
quick and they're so on edge that you've got to
(09:05):
be incredibly accurate in the way that you're sailing the
boat and responding to the changes in the sea state,
the changes and the wind conditions and your opponents as well.
So it's a whole new level for sailing where well,
in many ways it's a young man's and young woman's
game where your reaction time needs to be absolutely on point.
(09:28):
You don't have the ability to already think about what
you're going to do too much in terms of reacting
to sailing the yacht, and you rely very much on
the people who are controlling the flights and controlling the
sails to keep the boat stable. And then the offside helmesman,
so that's the one who's not actively flying and sailing
the boat. That person's really important for looking around the
(09:50):
racetrack and the communications. If you get a chance to
listen carefully, you'll hear those communications really clear and important
to plan. The boundaries are crosses, what's coming in front
of the boat, all of those sorts of things. So
it is a really team effort. But it's a very
different kind of sailing than what we saw old school America's.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Cup sure is. But I thank you for painting those pictures.
It's always great having experienced like yourself on to be
able to help us understand what's going on. A few
late nights ahead, Mark, but you try and get some sleep,
and we appreciate your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Pleasure. Thanks great, There we go, yep, Mark.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Orm Z put it brilliantly, and it's always great when
you get people like Mark. They give you the explanation.
Now I know what i'm watching, what i'm seeing, what
I'm going to look for. I'll go through the schedule
a little bit later because we're just going to get
to a break to tell you what's happening. But Emrich
team in general take on Luna Rossa. I think I've
got that right. I'll get the official time for you
Yeah, the America's Cup is about to get underway, the
thirty seventh edition. We've got the preliminary regatta are happening
or starting overnight, joining us now as renowned successful say,
let respect the Scott Mark Orm's Good morning, Mark, morning, Craig.
Looking forward to you telling us that we're going to
win this thing even though we feel a little bit disconnected.
I just need you to give me confidence. Our boats
fast and the others are just going to fight out
(00:21):
for second place.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah. Well, of course it's never done until it's done.
This it's just a full of preliminary regatta, but it
will give us a really good test of where the
kiwis are at compared to the challenges at the moment.
All of the intel that I'm getting suggested that the
Kiwis are quick and probably step ahead of everybody else,
(00:43):
with the one exception of the Italians and Lunar Rossa
Prataparelli who seemed to be on the place as well.
And then there's a bit of a chasing peck. But
it's never over till it's over. But good news so far,
and that we'll get a good sense with good bree
Sport casts overnight tonight in Barcelona, and it'll it'll give
us a good test because first up of the new
(01:05):
challenges the Source and the French, and then we've got
the finalist Saw America's Cup competitors from last time, and
now Italian mates and Jimmy Spittle up against Emirates to
New Zealand and the second races.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, we start to get reminded now, Mark about the
old rivalries, don't we And when you talk about the Swiss,
they haven't been involved, but they've also had their challenges.
Was it only a couple of days ago they broke
the second mast? And I heard this morning you're our
two new masks and an old mass, So how are
they going to? Are they going to line up in this?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Reget it? Yes, I've been sailing just to overnight our
time of the day before with their old mask, so
you're allowed to new masks, you're quite right. And unfortunately
they've had structural failures and broken both of them. So
to break your race mask that you were just basically
betting in ready for the regatta only twenty minutes into
(01:54):
its first ever time out sailing suggests that they've got
a significant engineering issue with those year rigs and putting
the old mast on it never going to be as good,
and so they've got a bit on at the moment,
do a lingy and it'll be interesting to see how
they shape up. But I expect them to really just
(02:15):
be using this preliminary gat to kind of rebuild their
confidence and get themselves back on track. But they don't
have enough time really to repair the break. It was
a major one, so they will be using that old
mast right throughout this preliminary gaddon does.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
That show that if you've done too then maybe you
know when it comes to the configuration, and these things
are just so high tech, but you know if something's
breaking and there's a constant that happens, that maybe there
is something wrong when it comes to uppose the dynamics
of the.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Boat, well, I think it's probably it's more likely given
if it's one. If it's just one rigged, then it
can potentially be something to do with the construction where
they had some kind of issue with the laminates or
or something that caused structural weakness. But the fact that
it's been two means that it's actually an engineering design
issue in my view, So they're going to have to
(03:08):
really go back and have a look at what their
laminate structural design was. It obviously wasn't strong enough and
then they're going to have to try and do a repair.
Now a repair is possible, but it takes quite a
long period of time and inevitably it makes the mask heavier.
So whether they've got enough time or not, this preliminary
(03:29):
to get it doesn't count to points, yes, but it's
only a week away from the first round robins of
the Challenger series itself, so they haven't got much time.
I'd be very surprised if unless they prepared that first
broken mast, which they broke almost three months ago. Now
I think the second broken mask does not repeable in
time for the start of the Challenger series.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
What do we need to do there?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So you know I'm the novice sitting at home. We
become experts, though, don't we, unlike yourself who is one
when it comes to watching and we've just had it
with the Olympics. But you know the start? How important
is that the start? Like if you are behind you
know once upon a time you used to know, you
know the distance where you can come back. So what
do we need to know when it comes from the
start and where we need to be when it comes
to each lead, because things happen pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, it's a good observation that the start in sailing
is always absolutely critical, even if you've got a faster boat.
If you've got your opponent in front of you, they
can really control the race from there, particularly in these
modern America's Cup races where they put boundaries in place,
and that means you're restricted in terms of where you
can go, which gives the advantage even more to the
(04:35):
bot in front of the start line, so you're really
you're passing. Opportunities come with the gates or the two
marks at the top and the bottom of the course.
The lead boat we'll pick one, and if you're the
trailing boat, you'll always try and engineer it so that
you can take the opposite mark, and that gives you
a bit of a split and the opportunity to find
different breeze, different conditions and perhaps manufacture of pass or
(05:00):
bring your speed into play if you're a faster boat.
So we need to certainly walk the kiwis, who by
all accounts are quite quick. We'll be looking for us
to get off to start clean and then if they
can get in front with their speed, they'll just control
from there and probably stretch. If they're behind, they'll try
(05:20):
and engineer a split around one of the marks and
then again use their speed to manufacture a pass. It's
the oldest sort of truism in the America's Cup that
the fastest boat eventually wins. But it is harder now
with the constrained courses, and so it is possible for
a slower boat to keep a faster boat behind with
(05:41):
the boundaries if they sail really really well.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Right and also like condition wise over there, you know,
when it comes to variations the Hiraki golf, we know that.
You know it can be from eight not's up to
twenty and you know the boats we saw it last time.
But what do we expect out of Barcelona is a
constant breeze and will it be the same along or
will there be big if some you know, for teams
that may be out of it and they do get
that split to be able to claw their way back.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah. At the moment, we're sort of coming to the
end of summer over there, it's still reasonably consistent. The
forecast for the first three days of this preliminary gatherer.
A south southwesterlies in the teams. By that I mean
sort of somewhere between thirteen and fifteen sixteen knots, so
that that's really good breeze for these boats. You'll see
them ripping along. And by the way, that they're going
(06:26):
well over fifty knots now, so that's one hundred kilometers
an hour as the power of the wind. So just
just think about that.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, I look back at even when you were involved,
you back. I mean, you know, I'm old enough to
remember even caged seven back in Fremantle. But it's just
you know, we know evolution is so quick, but is
this probably I look at the America's Cup, this is
probably the one that's gone from zero to one hundred
the most innovation, the quickest development than probably any sport
(06:54):
around the world. To think that they're doing one hundred
k and out on these yachts is just unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It is incredible. And the thing that's made the massive
difference is getting them on foils. As soon as you're
able to get up on the hydrofoils, all of that
drag that sits when a boat is in the water,
it is suddenly gone. And so what we're seeing now
is the foils are becoming smaller and smaller. And if
you have a look at these boats, you'll see the
huge amount of attention pay to aerodynamic drag, so that
(07:22):
they are very much And this is why we've got
Formula one team sitting in beside behind in some of
these teams is because the arrow part of it is
so important. Basically, the only thing that stops these boats
going faster as drag, and so you'll hardly even see
the sailors. You'll see the little peaks of their helmets
so that they can see where they're going because they're
(07:43):
just dropping them down out of the aerodynamic drag that
will slow them down. And there's a huge amount of
attention pay to that and the design and the sailing
of the boats. But yes, they are an incredible, incredible machine.
And the evolution since we've gone on foils is just stepping.
It makes me wonder where it's going to stop. Oh,
it's going to eventually end up with sort of completely
(08:05):
flying yachts using ground effect or something. But it is
quite incredible the development over the last decade.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So also though there is still a sailing element. Doesn't
it that you still need to have good sailors. I mean,
we do, we know that, but you still need to
have sailing elements involved as well.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, But these sailors are very different than the
sailors of my generation. You point it back to K seven.
I mean that was very much an on water chess
game where it just sort of unfolded very slowly over
sometimes an hour. But these boats and the races go
through in fifteen minutes or so, and so the sort
(08:43):
of sailors as Peter Berling and Nathan Alteridge the co
helms of the New Zealand boat, they're very much like
fighter pilots. They just have to be incredibly calm. They
have to be clear in their communications, they have to
be crystal in their decision making, and they have to
have nerves of steel because these things are going so
quick and they're so on edge that you've got to
(09:05):
be incredibly accurate in the way that you're sailing the
boat and responding to the changes in the sea state,
the changes and the wind conditions and your opponents as well.
So it's a whole new level for sailing where well,
in many ways it's a young man's and young woman's
game where your reaction time needs to be absolutely on point.
(09:28):
You don't have the ability to already think about what
you're going to do too much in terms of reacting
to sailing the yacht, and you rely very much on
the people who are controlling the flights and controlling the
sails to keep the boat stable. And then the offside helmesman,
so that's the one who's not actively flying and sailing
the boat. That person's really important for looking around the
(09:50):
racetrack and the communications. If you get a chance to
listen carefully, you'll hear those communications really clear and important
to plan. The boundaries are crosses, what's coming in front
of the boat, all of those sorts of things. So
it is a really team effort. But it's a very
different kind of sailing than what we saw old school America's.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Cup sure is. But I thank you for painting those pictures.
It's always great having experienced like yourself on to be
able to help us understand what's going on. A few
late nights ahead, Mark, but you try and get some sleep,
and we appreciate your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Pleasure. Thanks great, There we go, yep, Mark.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Orm Z put it brilliantly, and it's always great when
you get people like Mark. They give you the explanation.
Now I know what i'm watching, what i'm seeing, what
I'm going to look for. I'll go through the schedule
a little bit later because we're just going to get
to a break to tell you what's happening. But Emrich
team in general take on Luna Rossa. I think I've
got that right. I'll get the official time for you
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