July 22, 2024 • 13 mins
Our Y2K bug fears became a reality when millions of computers were disabled worldwide over the weekend.
Microsoft estimates the outage meant about 8.5 million computers were disabled when an update from global cybersecurity company, CrowdStrike, went wrong.
Banks, airports, supermarkets, media companies and retailers were left scrambling – and the company’s chief executive says it could be ‘some time’ before systems are completely back to normal.
It’s believed to have been the biggest tech outage in history – so what can we learn from this to prevent it from happening again? And does it expose weaknesses in a globally connected computer network?
Today on The Front Page, to analyse the next steps from this tech crisis, we’re joined by Aura Information Security, Advisory Consultant, Alastair Miller.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer: Paddy Fox
Producer: Ethan Sills
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kielder. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Our
y two k bug fears became a reality when millions
of computers were disabled worldwide over the weekend. Microsoft estimates
(00:27):
the outage meant eight point five million computers were disabled
when an update from global cybersecurity company CrowdStrike went wrong. Banks, airports, supermarkets,
media companies and retailers were left scrambling, and the company's
chief executive says it could be some time before systems
(00:50):
are completely back to normal. It's believed to have been
the biggest tech outage in history. So what can we
learn from this to prevent it from happening again? And
does it expose weaknesses in a globally connected computer network.
Today on the Front Page, to analyze the next steps
from this tech crisis, we're joined by Aura Information Security
(01:15):
advisory consultant Alistair Miller. Alistair, what was your reaction on
Friday night when these problems started to be reported globally.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I have to say I was a bit worried for
all the IT teams who are going to have to
deal with them. As the problems escalated and as we've
now found out, it's least eight point five million computers.
That's a lot of work for a lot of people
to sort out.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
This issue has been blamed on a software update, but
the effects were pretty wide spread. Planes were canceled, banking
systems where inaccessible security systems went down. The list goes on.
How standard is it that so many different and varied
systems and industries would be linked to the same software.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Unfortunately, it's quite common.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There's a sort of only a small handful of big
players in a lot of the IT spaces, and they
pretty much cover all especially crowdstrikes at the top end
of the market. So that will be with all those
big players, those banks, big transport companies who we probably
haven't seen in the press but probably have suffered because
it's going to take a bit longer there and other
(02:24):
big players are going to be impacted by those things.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
The scale of the outage unprecedented, affecting flights, banks, healthcare systems,
and TV stations. The trouble first occurred in Australia and
here industries hit in America, across Europe and Asia.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Chaos for airlines there are canceled Amy drive.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
We'll have to try and get a flying home somewhere
somewhere sometime, don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Sint John lost computers for taking calls and for dispatching.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Literally a paper process, having to go back to writing
things and using paper and paper boat system.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
We know the issues being traced back to CrowdStrike, a
company that produces anti virus software. You mentioned with eight
point five million Microsoft devices affected. What do you think
went wrong here?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It appears it's a bit of a lack of quality assurance,
so they didn't do their testing with the latest Microsoft
update and released a bit of software that conflicted badly
with the Microsoft update and took all those PCs and
servers out.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And CrowdStrike I believe has around a twenty percent market share.
Is this one example where one company being so dominant
in the market really doesn't work in people's favor.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, I mean there is that risk, and again they
cater to the high end market, so the ones who
are much more noticeable. But it's just very common in
the IT space where there are a few big players
who can dominate the markets and then obviously when run
into trouble, it hits everyone. I mean, Microsoft and Amazon
are the prime example really with who the biggest cloud
(04:07):
providers adding Google not so big in New Zealand, but
big worldwide. When they have issues, the whole world feels
that pain. CrowdStrike is the company behind the software that
brought everything down.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
We're deeply sorry for the impact that we've caused customers,
to travelers, to anyone affected by this, including our companies.
So we know what the issue is. We're resolving and
have resolved the issue.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Is this really our y two k fears realized twenty
four years later?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It certainly demonstrates that the people who put in that
hard work back then for y two k, this is
what they were trying to mitigate, these kind of issues
where it takes down all kinds of systems and things
that you didn't necessarily expect cause you a lot of pain.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
We were talking on this podcast actually last week about
if we need to break up the banking sector or
SuperM it's locally for more competition. Is that something that's
even possible in the tech sector, or do you need
a large company like CrowdStrike, say, to actually have the
capacity to manage millions of devices globally?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They have a lot of competitors.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think our problems are more people have not got
good business continuity and disaster response plans. A lot of
New Zealand businesses have nothing, and the ones that a
lot of the other ones will have something written on
a piece of paper that's never been exercised at all.
So people actually prepared for problems happening, because we'll know
they do. You know, we have COVID, we have earthquakes.
I mean, you have plans for you know, a fire
(05:37):
escape and you practice that drill once a year. So
companies have to have plans for what happens if we
lose all our servers and how do we get around that?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So is this really an issue with companies worldwide not
having those fire escape drills?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Say it is?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I mean, I think we'll find that some of them
have recovered within twenty four to forty eight hours, other
ones will drag on for weeks, and the ones that
dragon for weeks will be the ones without the good plans.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Does New Zealand have any companies based here that could
take on some of this workload.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
To try and fix it all manually. I mean, we
New Zealand has an IT skill shortage, which is one
of the reasons why some companies are going to take
a long time to recover because they're going to be
looking to outside providers. But I mean all companies can
either talk to themselves or talk to consultancies and other
experts in the area to get advice on what is
a good business continuity or disaster response plan.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I've seen the term single point failure emerge in some
of our analysis of this. Can you explain what that
actually is?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So, a single point of failure, or as people lovingly
call it, a spoff, is basically where everything points to
one thing. Often in an organization, it can be a person.
When that person is everything grinds to a halt. It's
that one place where, even if you had multiple things
around it, they all have to deal with that system,
talk to that person or get sort of channeled through it,
(07:11):
and when that goes down, the whole business goes down
with it. In this case, it's not quite a single
point of failure, but it's the inability to have a
failover for when that thing fails that's more of the
issue in this case.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
How vulnerable are global systems to these types of issues?
Does this make us more susceptible to hackers or malicious attacks.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Indirectly, it may well do where people lose the ability
to monitor things and see what's going on on a
wider scale.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
For the issues. Obviously, the attackers.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Immediately jumped on it, and we're looking to scam people
with fake websites, fake emails of help and things like that.
But I think what it really reflects is how interconnected
the world is nowadays, how much we depend on our
IT systems, and we need them to be resilient and
robust to cope with things like this.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
We've been long encouraged to keep our devices software up
to date, but there are now tough questions as to
how one faulty update could have brought so much chaos.
To be clear, this wasn't a hack or cyber attack,
so you don't need to change any passwords. It only
affected machines running Microsoft, but every single one will need
(08:21):
a manual reboot in safe mode. Microsoft says some people
have to do this as many as fifteen times.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
For years now, we've all been talking about society moving
more and more online. Do you think this incident will
make some governments and companies stop and have a bit
of a rethink.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, I mean, I think they'll have a think about
it and they'll have to consider what to do. I
mean often a good business continuity plan is to have
some paper and some forms available, tell your staff about
it train the minute, and when the computers go down,
they go back to those pieces of paper and carry
on in a sort of more outdated world. But at
least they know what they're doing and they know how
to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I saw in some supermarkets they actually had those things
that we used.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
To have and yeah, the little stubs of pay for you.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, the stubs of paper or those things where you'd
push the thing across for the card reader.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh yes, yes, And that's brilliant that they still had
them and the staff knew what they were doing. I mean,
you do need these fallbacks. Hopefully we never have to
use them all very infrequently, but to have them there
is absolutely key.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Well, a cashless society is one area that's caused concern
for some. The idea of us removing physical money and
going fully digital, given some people couldn't access their accounts
or use pay systems, is that one area particularly that
might need to be re examined.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It certainly puts it at a very high risk of
the repercussions should we not be able to access that money. Obviously,
if you can't get to an ATM to withdraw the
money because the ATM's fallen over, even with cash, you're
kind of stuck. But it's definitely something to consider going
forward where everything is either on your phone or on
a card.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What's the likelihood of a global outage like this happening again,
and if so, how do we go about preventing it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think it's fairly likely that within the next couple
of years something similar will happen. It's just as we've
been saying that the number of providers out there is
limited in some spaces, some of them tend to monopolize
certain sexes, so it's going to hit and so it's
really having those plans and getting people to exercise them,
at the very least round a tabletop, so everyone gets
around that for a few hours and practices it, and
(10:32):
then every now and then actually doing a physical test
of it of knocking over a system and seeing how
you recover from it.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Microsoft's going to be looking at this closely to see
how this never happens again. From a brand perspective, they're
going to have to spend weeks and months ahead trying
to contain that. But it does speak to just a broader,
the stronger and stronger intact. We're not talking about thirty
forty companies. There's really a core ten to twenty. They're
(11:00):
run the global IT infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Should we have some kind of worldwide regulatory agreement on
something like.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
This, It's a very interesting idea. International regulation is absolutely
a nightmare as far as I can tell, so it
would be a good idea, But I imagine getting anything
through the United Nations or some similar body would be
very hard work in.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Terms of managing it. From a New Zealand point of view,
Is there anything our government can do to prevent something
like this happening again, or at least making it a
better turnaround, so to speak, to get everything back online.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, interestingly, the FMA, who regulates financial bodies, recently put
out a sort of not quite a regulation, but a
requirement that businesses actually get ready for this kind of thing,
improve their resiliency and redundancy plans. So parts of the
government are taking this seriously. What they really need to
do is kind of have a bit more of a
stick about it and go. We're going to come and
(11:58):
order you every year to and check these plans real
and that you've been practicing them. It should probably be
in all areas where things really matter to us, so
you know, the health, transport, financial, those kind of things
are the ones that probably need that level of plans
in place.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And in terms of the general public, should we not
get our money out of the banks and bury it
in the backyard.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I think that may be an overreaction.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I would imagine that's probably going to have as many
repercussions as doing that. But we certainly need to be
prepared ourselves, have our own sort of fire drill or
earthquake escape plan on what happens if we can't, you know,
use our card. Do we have you know, a couple
of hundred bucks in a draw that we could then
go and get groceries or whatever we need? So we
ourselves are not kind of beyond having little plans.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, a bit of a wake up call for everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Hey, it is it's that complacency where we get where
it's someone else will always fix that problem. We don't
have to worry about it because it's taken care of.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Thanks for joining us, Elstair no problem, Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It was a pleasure to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patti Fox. I'm
Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or
wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for
(13:26):
another look behind the headlines.
Kielder. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Our
y two k bug fears became a reality when millions
of computers were disabled worldwide over the weekend. Microsoft estimates
(00:27):
the outage meant eight point five million computers were disabled
when an update from global cybersecurity company CrowdStrike went wrong. Banks, airports, supermarkets,
media companies and retailers were left scrambling, and the company's
chief executive says it could be some time before systems
(00:50):
are completely back to normal. It's believed to have been
the biggest tech outage in history. So what can we
learn from this to prevent it from happening again? And
does it expose weaknesses in a globally connected computer network.
Today on the Front Page, to analyze the next steps
from this tech crisis, we're joined by Aura Information Security
(01:15):
advisory consultant Alistair Miller. Alistair, what was your reaction on
Friday night when these problems started to be reported globally.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I have to say I was a bit worried for
all the IT teams who are going to have to
deal with them. As the problems escalated and as we've
now found out, it's least eight point five million computers.
That's a lot of work for a lot of people
to sort out.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
This issue has been blamed on a software update, but
the effects were pretty wide spread. Planes were canceled, banking
systems where inaccessible security systems went down. The list goes on.
How standard is it that so many different and varied
systems and industries would be linked to the same software.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Unfortunately, it's quite common.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
There's a sort of only a small handful of big
players in a lot of the IT spaces, and they
pretty much cover all especially crowdstrikes at the top end
of the market. So that will be with all those
big players, those banks, big transport companies who we probably
haven't seen in the press but probably have suffered because
it's going to take a bit longer there and other
(02:24):
big players are going to be impacted by those things.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
The scale of the outage unprecedented, affecting flights, banks, healthcare systems,
and TV stations. The trouble first occurred in Australia and
here industries hit in America, across Europe and Asia.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Chaos for airlines there are canceled Amy drive.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
We'll have to try and get a flying home somewhere
somewhere sometime, don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Sint John lost computers for taking calls and for dispatching.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Literally a paper process, having to go back to writing
things and using paper and paper boat system.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
We know the issues being traced back to CrowdStrike, a
company that produces anti virus software. You mentioned with eight
point five million Microsoft devices affected. What do you think
went wrong here?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It appears it's a bit of a lack of quality assurance,
so they didn't do their testing with the latest Microsoft
update and released a bit of software that conflicted badly
with the Microsoft update and took all those PCs and
servers out.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And CrowdStrike I believe has around a twenty percent market share.
Is this one example where one company being so dominant
in the market really doesn't work in people's favor.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Well, I mean there is that risk, and again they
cater to the high end market, so the ones who
are much more noticeable. But it's just very common in
the IT space where there are a few big players
who can dominate the markets and then obviously when run
into trouble, it hits everyone. I mean, Microsoft and Amazon
are the prime example really with who the biggest cloud
(04:07):
providers adding Google not so big in New Zealand, but
big worldwide. When they have issues, the whole world feels
that pain. CrowdStrike is the company behind the software that
brought everything down.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
We're deeply sorry for the impact that we've caused customers,
to travelers, to anyone affected by this, including our companies.
So we know what the issue is. We're resolving and
have resolved the issue.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Is this really our y two k fears realized twenty
four years later?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It certainly demonstrates that the people who put in that
hard work back then for y two k, this is
what they were trying to mitigate, these kind of issues
where it takes down all kinds of systems and things
that you didn't necessarily expect cause you a lot of pain.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
We were talking on this podcast actually last week about
if we need to break up the banking sector or
SuperM it's locally for more competition. Is that something that's
even possible in the tech sector, or do you need
a large company like CrowdStrike, say, to actually have the
capacity to manage millions of devices globally?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They have a lot of competitors.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think our problems are more people have not got
good business continuity and disaster response plans. A lot of
New Zealand businesses have nothing, and the ones that a
lot of the other ones will have something written on
a piece of paper that's never been exercised at all.
So people actually prepared for problems happening, because we'll know
they do. You know, we have COVID, we have earthquakes.
I mean, you have plans for you know, a fire
(05:37):
escape and you practice that drill once a year. So
companies have to have plans for what happens if we
lose all our servers and how do we get around that?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So is this really an issue with companies worldwide not
having those fire escape drills?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Say it is?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I mean, I think we'll find that some of them
have recovered within twenty four to forty eight hours, other
ones will drag on for weeks, and the ones that
dragon for weeks will be the ones without the good plans.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Does New Zealand have any companies based here that could
take on some of this workload.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
To try and fix it all manually. I mean, we
New Zealand has an IT skill shortage, which is one
of the reasons why some companies are going to take
a long time to recover because they're going to be
looking to outside providers. But I mean all companies can
either talk to themselves or talk to consultancies and other
experts in the area to get advice on what is
a good business continuity or disaster response plan.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I've seen the term single point failure emerge in some
of our analysis of this. Can you explain what that
actually is?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So, a single point of failure, or as people lovingly
call it, a spoff, is basically where everything points to
one thing. Often in an organization, it can be a person.
When that person is everything grinds to a halt. It's
that one place where, even if you had multiple things
around it, they all have to deal with that system,
talk to that person or get sort of channeled through it,
(07:11):
and when that goes down, the whole business goes down
with it. In this case, it's not quite a single
point of failure, but it's the inability to have a
failover for when that thing fails that's more of the
issue in this case.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
How vulnerable are global systems to these types of issues?
Does this make us more susceptible to hackers or malicious attacks.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Indirectly, it may well do where people lose the ability
to monitor things and see what's going on on a
wider scale.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
For the issues. Obviously, the attackers.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Immediately jumped on it, and we're looking to scam people
with fake websites, fake emails of help and things like that.
But I think what it really reflects is how interconnected
the world is nowadays, how much we depend on our
IT systems, and we need them to be resilient and
robust to cope with things like this.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
We've been long encouraged to keep our devices software up
to date, but there are now tough questions as to
how one faulty update could have brought so much chaos.
To be clear, this wasn't a hack or cyber attack,
so you don't need to change any passwords. It only
affected machines running Microsoft, but every single one will need
(08:21):
a manual reboot in safe mode. Microsoft says some people
have to do this as many as fifteen times.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
For years now, we've all been talking about society moving
more and more online. Do you think this incident will
make some governments and companies stop and have a bit
of a rethink.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, I mean, I think they'll have a think about
it and they'll have to consider what to do. I
mean often a good business continuity plan is to have
some paper and some forms available, tell your staff about
it train the minute, and when the computers go down,
they go back to those pieces of paper and carry
on in a sort of more outdated world. But at
least they know what they're doing and they know how
to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I saw in some supermarkets they actually had those things
that we used.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
To have and yeah, the little stubs of pay for you.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, the stubs of paper or those things where you'd
push the thing across for the card reader.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh yes, yes, And that's brilliant that they still had
them and the staff knew what they were doing. I mean,
you do need these fallbacks. Hopefully we never have to
use them all very infrequently, but to have them there
is absolutely key.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Well, a cashless society is one area that's caused concern
for some. The idea of us removing physical money and
going fully digital, given some people couldn't access their accounts
or use pay systems, is that one area particularly that
might need to be re examined.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It certainly puts it at a very high risk of
the repercussions should we not be able to access that money. Obviously,
if you can't get to an ATM to withdraw the
money because the ATM's fallen over, even with cash, you're
kind of stuck. But it's definitely something to consider going
forward where everything is either on your phone or on
a card.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What's the likelihood of a global outage like this happening again,
and if so, how do we go about preventing it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think it's fairly likely that within the next couple
of years something similar will happen. It's just as we've
been saying that the number of providers out there is
limited in some spaces, some of them tend to monopolize
certain sexes, so it's going to hit and so it's
really having those plans and getting people to exercise them,
at the very least round a tabletop, so everyone gets
around that for a few hours and practices it, and
(10:32):
then every now and then actually doing a physical test
of it of knocking over a system and seeing how
you recover from it.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Microsoft's going to be looking at this closely to see
how this never happens again. From a brand perspective, they're
going to have to spend weeks and months ahead trying
to contain that. But it does speak to just a broader,
the stronger and stronger intact. We're not talking about thirty
forty companies. There's really a core ten to twenty. They're
(11:00):
run the global IT infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Should we have some kind of worldwide regulatory agreement on
something like.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
This, It's a very interesting idea. International regulation is absolutely
a nightmare as far as I can tell, so it
would be a good idea, But I imagine getting anything
through the United Nations or some similar body would be
very hard work in.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Terms of managing it. From a New Zealand point of view,
Is there anything our government can do to prevent something
like this happening again, or at least making it a
better turnaround, so to speak, to get everything back online.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, interestingly, the FMA, who regulates financial bodies, recently put
out a sort of not quite a regulation, but a
requirement that businesses actually get ready for this kind of thing,
improve their resiliency and redundancy plans. So parts of the
government are taking this seriously. What they really need to
do is kind of have a bit more of a
stick about it and go. We're going to come and
(11:58):
order you every year to and check these plans real
and that you've been practicing them. It should probably be
in all areas where things really matter to us, so
you know, the health, transport, financial, those kind of things
are the ones that probably need that level of plans
in place.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And in terms of the general public, should we not
get our money out of the banks and bury it
in the backyard.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I think that may be an overreaction.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I would imagine that's probably going to have as many
repercussions as doing that. But we certainly need to be
prepared ourselves, have our own sort of fire drill or
earthquake escape plan on what happens if we can't, you know,
use our card. Do we have you know, a couple
of hundred bucks in a draw that we could then
go and get groceries or whatever we need? So we
ourselves are not kind of beyond having little plans.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, a bit of a wake up call for everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Hey, it is it's that complacency where we get where
it's someone else will always fix that problem. We don't
have to worry about it because it's taken care of.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Thanks for joining us, Elstair no problem, Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
It was a pleasure to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patti Fox. I'm
Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or
wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for
(13:26):
another look behind the headlines.
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.