September 15, 2025 • 18 mins
The All Blacks have taken a giant step backwards in a 43-10 crushing at the hands of South Africa in Wellington.
It’s their worst ever defeat – shipping six tries to one after leading 10-7 at halftime.
The performance has prompted questions about the team’s ability to recover and deliver consistent high-quality showings.
So, what does this record-breaking display mean for the future of the All Blacks?
Today on The Front Page, former All Black turned commentator Ant Strachan is with us to discuss the weekend, the consequences, and the future of the team.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The All
Blacks have taken a giant step backwards in a forty
three to ten crushing at the hands of South Africa
in Wellington. It's their worst ever defeat, shipping six tries
(00:29):
to one after leading ten to seven at halftime. The
performance has prompted questions about the team's ability to recover
and deliver consistent, high quality showings. So what does this
record breaking display mean for the future of the All Blacks.
Today on the Front Page, former All Black turned commentator
(00:50):
and Strawn is with us to discuss the weekend, the
consequences and the future of our team. First off, Strawnie,
tell me about this record loss in Wellington, what do
you make of it?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, it was disappointing, I guess as a New Zealander overall.
But I think one of the key things, and I
haven't heard it too much in the last forty eight hours,
is that there are now six nations in the top
tier in world rugby who are actually really close now
and historically the All Blacks have been cut above the rest.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So our percentages. Winning percentages are very high.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
But now you'll see in the last two or three
years that if a team is a bit off in
one or two or a number of areas of the game,
they can be beaten by any team. And of course
the home and away advantage is consistent too, So that's
probably the biggest thing. I mean, we need to acknowledge that,
not accept it, because we have very high standards for
(01:52):
our all Black team. But you know, I think it's
important that we do talk and acknowledge that fact. You know,
the world rugby particular, those big nations have caught.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Up with us.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And so because those other nations have gotten better and
we started up here, right, why haven't we gotten better
as the years go on.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, you know people will say, well, have we stagnated?
And I don't think so. I mean, we've got some
wonderful domestic competitions in New Zealand now Super Rugby competition
is right up there in terms of you know, weekly
opportunity for our players to develop. And then of course
that last stepping stones into international there's probably two or
three areas where we probably haven't kept pace with those
(02:31):
top teams, and it's the physical nature, not only the
physiological piece, but just the size of these men we
are playing against. And you know, New Zealanders aren't small,
and obviously it's a multi racial society. We have you know,
players them all around the world that live in now reside.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
But we just manned for man Now, we just don't
seem to match up physically. So that's something that I
guess can be addressed in a gymnasium. It might be
to do with nutrition, and it could be a whole
raft of factors. But they are big men. When you
look at a French team, a South African team, an
English team, now.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You know we are no longer towering over them. We
are in fact often smaller.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So over an eighty minute period, that physical confrontation will
take its toll, particularly if your players are slightly smaller,
you know. So I'd say that's the biggest thing. And
also now the analytical part of the game. It's so
easy to access how other teams are playing, and I
know there are teams and screeds of people who take
(03:36):
a deep dive into their opposition that they're about to
play in the coming weekend. So that also means that
teams are way better prepared to potentially expose some of
your weaknesses or perceived weaknesses, and you know, the All
Black team are always heavily scrutinized in that space. So
they're probably the two biggest ones for Mike.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
In terms of weakness. Is what did the All Blacks
show the weekend? What were our biggest weaknesses?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I sort of joddled down a few things, but I
think we still have some positional issues. So when you
look at a squad and this is a developing squad
as they head towards the twenty twenty seven World Cup,
across the board, you know we are still trying and
developing our style that fits a certain profile of athlete,
and I think on the weekend we all saw that
(04:27):
at set piece, So at scrum time we really started
to struggle, particularly in the second half.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And the greatest irony here is.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
That we have a tight head prop to Mighty Williams,
who's tall one hundred and forty kilos, but he almost
sits behind now the two or three South African props
that they roll off their bench because he's no longer
the biggest guy and he's got maybe some technical and
tactical deficiencies in his game too. So at scrum time
(04:55):
we struggle and as you probably know, set piece is
where you start a lot of your back from so
and also line out time they started to pick us
off as well, so you're almost cutting off a source
of ball and the ability to attack at scrum and
line out.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
They really did hit us hard there.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Then you could go through the team in terms of players,
I mean, without being too critical, I think Scott Barrett
still is deserving of an All Black jersey, but I
just wonder whether if you take the captaincy away from him,
whether he'll actually.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Be able to just focus on his positional role do
his job.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
He's a big boy, he's good arealy, he's good at
moving bodies both sides of the ball, attack, defense, but
he seems to be way down with the captaincy. And
we all know how good Ardie Savi. I mean, he's
a wonderful player anyway, world class, but he grows another
leg when they give him the captaincy. So maybe a
shift back to that particular scenario, and then you know,
(05:53):
you have a number of players that are still pretty
young in terms of their test match experience as Simon
has been really good, but he's only played three or
full Test matches while a Cetidi's coming back off an
injury and are very dominant twenty twenty four. Now he's
starting to be dominated in some respects because again he's
not the biggest number eight running around and he's just
(06:16):
coming to his game again after getting more pressure put
on him. Our halves nine and ten always under conjecture,
and no, I hope it didn't last too long on
the weekend, hadn't played a game for six weeks without
a smart decision to put him out there.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Finley, Christie did his best.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
The viewers and listeners won't like this comment, but Boden
Barrett's paid over one hundred and twenty five hundred and
thirty Test matches, such a wonderful servant and admirable the
way he's played and conducted himself this year. But I
just wonder if we looked at twenty twenty seven, you know,
is he the triple threat offense defense and his ability
to run the game like he used to be And
(06:56):
where's he going to be in six to twelve to
eighteen months time to now start sort of rolling the
dice a bit and bringing a younger player into that
critical ten, the pivotal spot.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
They're talking about bringing Richie Muhanga back.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
We know how good he is, but again, you know,
he hasn't always been at his very best at the
highest international level, and that's what we're talking about now
playing South Africa, playing France, England, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So the midfield potentially still not set.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
My preference was to sort of give Quintupire and Billy
Procter a shot in the midfield, put Jordi Barrett back
to full back where he's more comfortable, and probably the
other area of the game on the weekend other than
a lot of these sort of positional challenges we have
was our back three. Defensively, the South African team just
cut us up in that second half, so I know
(07:50):
they'll have some work to do defensively, and also aerially
that's been well documented now that we're still kind of
losing that aerial battle and at the highest level used
a lot as an offensive weapon, So you know, in summary,
a lot of things there to sort of stew over.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But yeah, that's probably the key things for mine.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I've seen some commentary and you suggested it as well,
that the All Blacks have been way too inconsistent and
that the Abs just don't fall over like that in
the second half. I mean, it was incredible to watch
that second half. Should we be questioning what's happening behind
the scenes.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well yeah, I mean it's a good question.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And you know, as every New Zealander will be doing
over the next sort of forty eight hours, you know,
you take a deep dive into some of these things,
some of these areas of the game. My philosophy always
is more sort of solution focused rather than firing shots.
I was blessed to wear the jersey myself, so I'm
not here to fire shots at specific people. But you've
got to look, you know, and you got to be honest.
(08:49):
And I think defensively, you know, we get up one
week to eat and part test defending the fortress was phenomenal,
you know, and defense is a lot about integrity. It's
understanding a system and defending for each other and just
keep on going even though you might be losing a
physical battle, but you just don't take a backward step.
You work hard to get you try and slow the
(09:11):
ball down. You try and the gate and blunt any
attack that you see, and also try and diffuse.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
The kicking game as well.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
But when our team starts getting on a roll, and
in that second half, the South African team went bang bang.
They then led by fourteen points, and our defensive integrity
across the paddock just seemed to drop off. It's hard
to reset and recalibrate to go, hey, boys, we are
losing this battle. What are we going to do individually
(09:40):
collectively to kind of turn the tables of it and
get back into this game? And I just felt that
we were not able to do that. And it could
be a whole raft of different reasons there, but you know,
we really struggled, and of course we let in some
very soft tries at the back end, which is completely
uncharacteristic for all black teams, you know, forever. That could
(10:01):
well be the biggest challenge for them in these next
two weeks is just to get their defense of mojo back,
acknowledging that they're not going to dominate a game for
eighty minutes defensively, because at some point in time, the
offense is going to get you and you're just going
to have to absorb that try and find a solution
and come back again. So now that was a big
(10:24):
thing for mine defensively because you know you would have
heard this sole cliche, but you know, defense wins chairmianships
basically nowadays, and we went at our defensive best.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
On the weekend, I saw of peace from the heralds
Gregor Paul and he said the All Blacks showed their
true selves and we need to get used to it.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, it's a pretty ambiguous statement. You know, what is
your true self?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
For me, the true self of being an All Black
is you respect the jersey on and off the field,
and when you run onto the field, you know exactly
what your job is because you've been selected to do
it job. And then how well you work with your
brothers and connect and die for the jersey?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You know? And I mean you have eighty minutes.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You are blessed to have eighty minutes to prove to yourself,
your family, your teammates and everyone that you deserve to
be there and be legit.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Do you reckon have lost a bit of that manner?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I don't think so. I mean, if you look at
every player, man for man, they would have been hurting
after the weekend, and I probably just hope that when
they review this game, and let's say hypothetically, you're walking
into a changing room after a pretty heavy defeat and
the hurt was there, you could see and raise a
Robinson really tough for him to front the media after
(11:46):
suffering a loss like that as the leading coach, that
they have a good look in the mirror because you've
got to look at yourself first, and I'm sure every
one of the players that were on the field on
the weekend will be looking in the mirror going, hey,
I got a things wrong and that's not who I am,
and that's not how I train, and that's not how
(12:07):
I want to perform. So I know that sounds a
bit idealistic, but at the end of the day, if
players are doing that, then you can get back on
your horse in time because everyone acknowledges that you know,
they can perform a lot better. And of course the
coaches have got to do the same and to be blunted,
you know, the news in a public at time, and
(12:28):
I look in the mirror too and go, hey, do
you understand where rugby landscape is in the world nowadays?
And again, not conceding but acknowledging that every single Test
match we play against those top tier nations, it's not
going to be a walkover anymore. It's going to be
a excuse my friends. It's going to be a shit fight.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Every week. And you know that's that's going to be
an ongoing challenge for us.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I felt like the second half you couldn't buy when
I started going, yeah, fully droppers, et cetera. Can you
put your finger on how it unrippled?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Not right at the moment. Something we didn't be able
to look at it. And obviously you'll find it pretty quickly,
little big Pislow coming in, do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
People are right to question whether Razors should be there
or not after just this one defeat.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, we have a habit in New Zealand of you know,
things aren't going too well. Fire the coach Fozzy, you know,
he suffered immensely in that space, you know, and there
was some really objective discussions around potentially shifting from Fozzy
(13:50):
to the next group. Razor had already been sitting in
the wings with his highly successful Cannaby Crusaders Rain.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
But there's a step to the international standard and the
News and Rugby Union made the decision to do that
based on a whole raft of factors, and we don't
often see those, but we see the end product, which
is what runs out the tunnel and delivers it on
a weekly basis. And also as importantly, how well these
men conduct themselves in the community. And you know, Raises
(14:25):
a cultural person who's innovative and keeps trying to find
ways for players and teams to connect, and he respects
that All Black Jersey people will argue, maybe we're giving
him longer time because of his super rugby success than
we did to Ian Foster.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well, to me, it's probably too soon.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
But you know, if a team continues to show weaknesses
and poor performances, you know over a calendar year, I
think you're better to always ascertain at the back end,
have a strong you do it in the right way,
and then say well, hey, look, you know, is this
group is this leader the one to take us through
to twenty twenty seven because we've still got some time here.
(15:09):
You know, Quis are like, we're pretty hard when it
comes to pointing the finger. I mean, look at Nolan
told her, and I don't for one minute understand what
happened there. But you know, she went from being you know,
Dame Nolean to being someone who's been moved out the side.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
So they'll have their reasons.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
It's tough, classic tall poppy syndrome. Hey, do you reckon
that all blacks have enough depth to take us into
twenty twenty seven or is that somewhere where we really
need to work on.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh, you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
You know, that's one of the biggest concerns for me
because you often hear RASI Erasmus, and I thought they
actually conducted themselves pretty well on the weekend with the victory,
because that had a bit of stuff shoved at them
over the last seven days prior to Wellington, and they
are very good at this.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
That's mart with how they respond.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
And one of the things that flowed through for me
really extensively was he talked about the squad of forty five,
and when he's talking about the squad of forty five,
he's not being pc that they have forty five players
who are humming to wear the Springbok jersey, and so
he's creating depth in every single position. And I'm not
convinced that we're in the same boat. I don't think
(16:24):
we have forty five. I'm not quite sure executly the
number of players who are in this awkabat all back camp.
I think it's about thirty two or thirty four, you know,
but forty five is three teams. So you're saying in
every position you're building and grooming and developing three players.
You know, we can look at some of the players
(16:45):
in our current team.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
We look at our.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Nines, we get our tens, look at our midfielders, fullbacks.
You know, if we overlaid that forty five player process,
have we got three lined up in every spot and
obviously in the front road a few more because you've
got to even elucian and a tidy head prop.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So that's a challenge for us.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And look, there is a big gap between super rugby
and international rugby and that's where our players come from.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So how much of a layer are we going.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
To pull through from super rugby to have our squad
at forty five doesn't have to be forty five, but
the context is around having more rather than less.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Thanks for joining us, Strawnie.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
No worries, take care.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(17:53):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Kyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The All
Blacks have taken a giant step backwards in a forty
three to ten crushing at the hands of South Africa
in Wellington. It's their worst ever defeat, shipping six tries
(00:29):
to one after leading ten to seven at halftime. The
performance has prompted questions about the team's ability to recover
and deliver consistent, high quality showings. So what does this
record breaking display mean for the future of the All Blacks.
Today on the Front Page, former All Black turned commentator
(00:50):
and Strawn is with us to discuss the weekend, the
consequences and the future of our team. First off, Strawnie,
tell me about this record loss in Wellington, what do
you make of it?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, it was disappointing, I guess as a New Zealander overall.
But I think one of the key things, and I
haven't heard it too much in the last forty eight hours,
is that there are now six nations in the top
tier in world rugby who are actually really close now
and historically the All Blacks have been cut above the rest.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So our percentages. Winning percentages are very high.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
But now you'll see in the last two or three
years that if a team is a bit off in
one or two or a number of areas of the game,
they can be beaten by any team. And of course
the home and away advantage is consistent too, So that's
probably the biggest thing. I mean, we need to acknowledge that,
not accept it, because we have very high standards for
(01:52):
our all Black team. But you know, I think it's
important that we do talk and acknowledge that fact. You know,
the world rugby particular, those big nations have caught.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Up with us.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And so because those other nations have gotten better and
we started up here, right, why haven't we gotten better
as the years go on.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, you know people will say, well, have we stagnated?
And I don't think so. I mean, we've got some
wonderful domestic competitions in New Zealand now Super Rugby competition
is right up there in terms of you know, weekly
opportunity for our players to develop. And then of course
that last stepping stones into international there's probably two or
three areas where we probably haven't kept pace with those
(02:31):
top teams, and it's the physical nature, not only the
physiological piece, but just the size of these men we
are playing against. And you know, New Zealanders aren't small,
and obviously it's a multi racial society. We have you know,
players them all around the world that live in now reside.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
But we just manned for man Now, we just don't
seem to match up physically. So that's something that I
guess can be addressed in a gymnasium. It might be
to do with nutrition, and it could be a whole
raft of factors. But they are big men. When you
look at a French team, a South African team, an
English team, now.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You know we are no longer towering over them. We
are in fact often smaller.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So over an eighty minute period, that physical confrontation will
take its toll, particularly if your players are slightly smaller,
you know. So I'd say that's the biggest thing. And
also now the analytical part of the game. It's so
easy to access how other teams are playing, and I
know there are teams and screeds of people who take
(03:36):
a deep dive into their opposition that they're about to
play in the coming weekend. So that also means that
teams are way better prepared to potentially expose some of
your weaknesses or perceived weaknesses, and you know, the All
Black team are always heavily scrutinized in that space. So
they're probably the two biggest ones for Mike.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
In terms of weakness. Is what did the All Blacks
show the weekend? What were our biggest weaknesses?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I sort of joddled down a few things, but I
think we still have some positional issues. So when you
look at a squad and this is a developing squad
as they head towards the twenty twenty seven World Cup,
across the board, you know we are still trying and
developing our style that fits a certain profile of athlete,
and I think on the weekend we all saw that
(04:27):
at set piece, So at scrum time we really started
to struggle, particularly in the second half.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And the greatest irony here is.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
That we have a tight head prop to Mighty Williams,
who's tall one hundred and forty kilos, but he almost
sits behind now the two or three South African props
that they roll off their bench because he's no longer
the biggest guy and he's got maybe some technical and
tactical deficiencies in his game too. So at scrum time
(04:55):
we struggle and as you probably know, set piece is
where you start a lot of your back from so
and also line out time they started to pick us
off as well, so you're almost cutting off a source
of ball and the ability to attack at scrum and
line out.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
They really did hit us hard there.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Then you could go through the team in terms of players,
I mean, without being too critical, I think Scott Barrett
still is deserving of an All Black jersey, but I
just wonder whether if you take the captaincy away from him,
whether he'll actually.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Be able to just focus on his positional role do
his job.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
He's a big boy, he's good arealy, he's good at
moving bodies both sides of the ball, attack, defense, but
he seems to be way down with the captaincy. And
we all know how good Ardie Savi. I mean, he's
a wonderful player anyway, world class, but he grows another
leg when they give him the captaincy. So maybe a
shift back to that particular scenario, and then you know,
(05:53):
you have a number of players that are still pretty
young in terms of their test match experience as Simon
has been really good, but he's only played three or
full Test matches while a Cetidi's coming back off an
injury and are very dominant twenty twenty four. Now he's
starting to be dominated in some respects because again he's
not the biggest number eight running around and he's just
(06:16):
coming to his game again after getting more pressure put
on him. Our halves nine and ten always under conjecture,
and no, I hope it didn't last too long on
the weekend, hadn't played a game for six weeks without
a smart decision to put him out there.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Finley, Christie did his best.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
The viewers and listeners won't like this comment, but Boden
Barrett's paid over one hundred and twenty five hundred and
thirty Test matches, such a wonderful servant and admirable the
way he's played and conducted himself this year. But I
just wonder if we looked at twenty twenty seven, you know,
is he the triple threat offense defense and his ability
to run the game like he used to be And
(06:56):
where's he going to be in six to twelve to
eighteen months time to now start sort of rolling the
dice a bit and bringing a younger player into that
critical ten, the pivotal spot.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
They're talking about bringing Richie Muhanga back.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
We know how good he is, but again, you know,
he hasn't always been at his very best at the
highest international level, and that's what we're talking about now
playing South Africa, playing France, England, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
So the midfield potentially still not set.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
My preference was to sort of give Quintupire and Billy
Procter a shot in the midfield, put Jordi Barrett back
to full back where he's more comfortable, and probably the
other area of the game on the weekend other than
a lot of these sort of positional challenges we have
was our back three. Defensively, the South African team just
cut us up in that second half, so I know
(07:50):
they'll have some work to do defensively, and also aerially
that's been well documented now that we're still kind of
losing that aerial battle and at the highest level used
a lot as an offensive weapon, So you know, in summary,
a lot of things there to sort of stew over.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
But yeah, that's probably the key things for mine.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I've seen some commentary and you suggested it as well,
that the All Blacks have been way too inconsistent and
that the Abs just don't fall over like that in
the second half. I mean, it was incredible to watch
that second half. Should we be questioning what's happening behind
the scenes.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well yeah, I mean it's a good question.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
And you know, as every New Zealander will be doing
over the next sort of forty eight hours, you know,
you take a deep dive into some of these things,
some of these areas of the game. My philosophy always
is more sort of solution focused rather than firing shots.
I was blessed to wear the jersey myself, so I'm
not here to fire shots at specific people. But you've
got to look, you know, and you got to be honest.
(08:49):
And I think defensively, you know, we get up one
week to eat and part test defending the fortress was phenomenal,
you know, and defense is a lot about integrity. It's
understanding a system and defending for each other and just
keep on going even though you might be losing a
physical battle, but you just don't take a backward step.
You work hard to get you try and slow the
(09:11):
ball down. You try and the gate and blunt any
attack that you see, and also try and diffuse.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
The kicking game as well.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
But when our team starts getting on a roll, and
in that second half, the South African team went bang bang.
They then led by fourteen points, and our defensive integrity
across the paddock just seemed to drop off. It's hard
to reset and recalibrate to go, hey, boys, we are
losing this battle. What are we going to do individually
(09:40):
collectively to kind of turn the tables of it and
get back into this game? And I just felt that
we were not able to do that. And it could
be a whole raft of different reasons there, but you know,
we really struggled, and of course we let in some
very soft tries at the back end, which is completely
uncharacteristic for all black teams, you know, forever. That could
(10:01):
well be the biggest challenge for them in these next
two weeks is just to get their defense of mojo back,
acknowledging that they're not going to dominate a game for
eighty minutes defensively, because at some point in time, the
offense is going to get you and you're just going
to have to absorb that try and find a solution
and come back again. So now that was a big
(10:24):
thing for mine defensively because you know you would have
heard this sole cliche, but you know, defense wins chairmianships
basically nowadays, and we went at our defensive best.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
On the weekend, I saw of peace from the heralds
Gregor Paul and he said the All Blacks showed their
true selves and we need to get used to it.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, it's a pretty ambiguous statement. You know, what is
your true self?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
For me, the true self of being an All Black
is you respect the jersey on and off the field,
and when you run onto the field, you know exactly
what your job is because you've been selected to do
it job. And then how well you work with your
brothers and connect and die for the jersey?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You know? And I mean you have eighty minutes.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
You are blessed to have eighty minutes to prove to yourself,
your family, your teammates and everyone that you deserve to
be there and be legit.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Do you reckon have lost a bit of that manner?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I don't think so. I mean, if you look at
every player, man for man, they would have been hurting
after the weekend, and I probably just hope that when
they review this game, and let's say hypothetically, you're walking
into a changing room after a pretty heavy defeat and
the hurt was there, you could see and raise a
Robinson really tough for him to front the media after
(11:46):
suffering a loss like that as the leading coach, that
they have a good look in the mirror because you've
got to look at yourself first, and I'm sure every
one of the players that were on the field on
the weekend will be looking in the mirror going, hey,
I got a things wrong and that's not who I am,
and that's not how I train, and that's not how
(12:07):
I want to perform. So I know that sounds a
bit idealistic, but at the end of the day, if
players are doing that, then you can get back on
your horse in time because everyone acknowledges that you know,
they can perform a lot better. And of course the
coaches have got to do the same and to be blunted,
you know, the news in a public at time, and
(12:28):
I look in the mirror too and go, hey, do
you understand where rugby landscape is in the world nowadays?
And again, not conceding but acknowledging that every single Test
match we play against those top tier nations, it's not
going to be a walkover anymore. It's going to be
a excuse my friends. It's going to be a shit fight.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Every week. And you know that's that's going to be
an ongoing challenge for us.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I felt like the second half you couldn't buy when
I started going, yeah, fully droppers, et cetera. Can you
put your finger on how it unrippled?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Not right at the moment. Something we didn't be able
to look at it. And obviously you'll find it pretty quickly,
little big Pislow coming in, do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
People are right to question whether Razors should be there
or not after just this one defeat.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Well, we have a habit in New Zealand of you know,
things aren't going too well. Fire the coach Fozzy, you know,
he suffered immensely in that space, you know, and there
was some really objective discussions around potentially shifting from Fozzy
(13:50):
to the next group. Razor had already been sitting in
the wings with his highly successful Cannaby Crusaders Rain.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
But there's a step to the international standard and the
News and Rugby Union made the decision to do that
based on a whole raft of factors, and we don't
often see those, but we see the end product, which
is what runs out the tunnel and delivers it on
a weekly basis. And also as importantly, how well these
men conduct themselves in the community. And you know, Raises
(14:25):
a cultural person who's innovative and keeps trying to find
ways for players and teams to connect, and he respects
that All Black Jersey people will argue, maybe we're giving
him longer time because of his super rugby success than
we did to Ian Foster.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Well, to me, it's probably too soon.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
But you know, if a team continues to show weaknesses
and poor performances, you know over a calendar year, I
think you're better to always ascertain at the back end,
have a strong you do it in the right way,
and then say well, hey, look, you know, is this
group is this leader the one to take us through
to twenty twenty seven because we've still got some time here.
(15:09):
You know, Quis are like, we're pretty hard when it
comes to pointing the finger. I mean, look at Nolan
told her, and I don't for one minute understand what
happened there. But you know, she went from being you know,
Dame Nolean to being someone who's been moved out the side.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
So they'll have their reasons.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
It's tough, classic tall poppy syndrome. Hey, do you reckon
that all blacks have enough depth to take us into
twenty twenty seven or is that somewhere where we really
need to work on.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh, you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
You know, that's one of the biggest concerns for me
because you often hear RASI Erasmus, and I thought they
actually conducted themselves pretty well on the weekend with the victory,
because that had a bit of stuff shoved at them
over the last seven days prior to Wellington, and they
are very good at this.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
That's mart with how they respond.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
And one of the things that flowed through for me
really extensively was he talked about the squad of forty five,
and when he's talking about the squad of forty five,
he's not being pc that they have forty five players
who are humming to wear the Springbok jersey, and so
he's creating depth in every single position. And I'm not
convinced that we're in the same boat. I don't think
(16:24):
we have forty five. I'm not quite sure executly the
number of players who are in this awkabat all back camp.
I think it's about thirty two or thirty four, you know,
but forty five is three teams. So you're saying in
every position you're building and grooming and developing three players.
You know, we can look at some of the players
(16:45):
in our current team.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
We look at our.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Nines, we get our tens, look at our midfielders, fullbacks.
You know, if we overlaid that forty five player process,
have we got three lined up in every spot and
obviously in the front road a few more because you've
got to even elucian and a tidy head prop.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So that's a challenge for us.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And look, there is a big gap between super rugby
and international rugby and that's where our players come from.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So how much of a layer are we going.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
To pull through from super rugby to have our squad
at forty five doesn't have to be forty five, but
the context is around having more rather than less.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Thanks for joining us, Strawnie.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
No worries, take care.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(17:53):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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