July 8, 2025 • 19 mins
Antisemitic sentiment has risen globally since the war in Gaza began, including in our part of the world.
A man has been charged after a Melbourne synagogue was set alight last Friday. The alleged antisemitic attack has seen the country’s Home Affairs Minister describe it as an “attack on Australia”.
The attack’s prompted the country’s Labor party to push for reforming the school curriculum to tech children about antisemitism.
But, these kind of anti-Jewish attitudes aren’t reserved for our trans-Tasman neighbours.
An NZ Jewish Council report last year found in the 12 months from October 7 2023, there were 227 recorded antisemitic incidents, a jump from 166 in the eight and a half years prior.
So, how has the Gaza conflict exacerbated these tensions? And how can the Jewish faith be separated from the actions of the state of Israel?
Today on The Front Page, Holocaust Centre of New Zealand chair Deborah Hart joins us to discuss the rise of antisemitism here, and how we might be able to combat it.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page,
a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Anti
Semitic sentiment has risen globally since the war in Gaza began,
including in our own part of the world. A man
has been charged after a Melbourne synagogue was set a
(00:27):
light last Friday. The alleged anti Semitic attack has seen
the country's Home Affairs Minister describe it as an attack
on Australia. The attacks prompted the country's Labor Party to
push for reforming the school curriculum to teach children about antisemitism.
But these kind of anti Jewish attitudes aren't reserved for
(00:49):
our trans Tasman neighbors. An Enzi Jewish Council report last
year found that in the twelve months from October seven,
twenty twenty three, there were two hundred and twenty seven
and recorded anti Semitic incidents, a jump from one hundred
and sixty six in the eight and a half years prior.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
How has the Gaza conflict exacerbated these tensions and how
can the Jewish faith be separated from the actions of
the State of Israel today? On the front page. Holocaust
Center of New Zealand chair Deborah Hart joins us to
discuss the rise of antisemitism here and how we might
be able to combat it. Deborah, what do you make
(01:33):
of the alleged arson attack on a Melbourne synagogue at
the weekend.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, there's been increasing levels of anti Semitism end violent
action aimed at Jewish people and institutions in Australia, culminating
on Friday, with actually three separate but aligned incidents, the
fire bombing of a synagogue, the fire bombing and vandalism
of a business, and some anti masked extremist terrorizing diners
(02:03):
at an Israeli owned restaurant, and miss Norm chanting death
to the IDF. This comes after numerous incidents of jew hatred,
fire bombings, hatefield rhetoric and threats of violence. So it's actually,
unfortunately not surpriser.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I mean, this is the same city where we saw
a neo Nazi protest out in the open. It seems
like this type of hate has been bubbling away at
the surface there for some time now.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, and we shouldn't feel too high and mighty ourselves
because there's been skyrocketing levels of jew hatred in this
country as well, and really pretty nasty incidents happening here.
It's very very similar tracks that we're seeing in Australia
(02:52):
to what we're seeing here as well. We've see skyrocketing
levels of anti Semitism, particularly since the seventh October, but
it was increasing prior to that time as well.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
What are some of the types of abuse you've seen
against the Jewish community here in New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Gosh, how long have you got at the Holocaust Center
of New Zealand. We did a survey about this time
last year. Actually eighty percent of parents who answered see
their children had suffered anti Semitic incidents at school. What
does that look like? Well, we're dealing with a teacher
who demanded of a three year old in a day
(03:30):
care to answer if he was Israeli and then man
handled him three times. A Jewish student was given a
haih Hitler salute and punched in the face. A Jewish
child's uniform was covered in anti Semitic slogans and symbols.
These are all separate attacks. A Jewish child was repeatedly harassed,
pushed to the ground, and his kippa the skull cat
(03:52):
knocked off his head and told he can't wear that here. Worse,
worse awful in universities, avert support for Humus, which is
a terrorist organization named such by the New Zealand government,
repeated calls to globalize the into Fada, campaigns at universities
(04:13):
to rid students and academics of Jews who support Israel's
right to exist. We've had a Jewish family had an
anti Semitic campaign targeted at all of their neighbors. We've
had at the Holocaust Center of New Zealand. Like many
Jewish institutions, we regularly receive hate mail. We have had
(04:34):
the graffiti was it last month in Wellington that stated
I hated Jews before it was called. There was an
assault against an Israeli tourists last month. There's been an
assault at a vigil for the hostages held in Gaza.
I mean, I can go on and on and on,
you know, and it includes Jewish businesses being doped, boycotted
(04:56):
and attacked, and demands of artists Gewish artists in museums
and musicians and artists to condem as well if they
want to keep their exhibitions in these gigs. I mean
it is comprehensive. It runs the gamut of violent assaults
to hateful retruck.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
The punk band Bob Villan have said that they are
being targeted for speaking up after their comments during a
Glastonbury show were branded anti Semitic, and that they now
face a police investigation. The Rab Duo led an anti
Israeli military chant during their Glastonbury set at the weekend.
The BBC has been criticized for continuing to show the
live stream of the performance on Saturday. In a statement,
(05:42):
the band said, today a good many people would have
you believe a punk band is the number one threat
to world peace. Last week it was a Palestine pressure group.
The week before that it was another band. Where not
for the death of Jews, Arabs or any other race
or group of people, Where for the dismantling of a
violent treat machine.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I mean a lot of this sentiment against Israel and
the IDF has come from pro Palestinian protesters or those
opposed to what's happened or happening in Gaza. And of
course the events of October seven were horrific and inexcusable.
The conflict over the last two years in Gaza has
been extremely violent, as well, there's no denying that, and
there have been reports of residents being shot and killed
(06:28):
while trying to reach aid, children starving, injured unable to
be treated. But is it right to say that the
actions of IDF are not indicative of the feelings of
all Jewish people, just the same as the actions of
har Mass can't be blamed on all Palestinians.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah. Look, and Israel as a sovereign nation state, it's government.
It does what its government is going to do. Jewish
New Zealanders are not responsible for the actions of a
foreign nation state. And Jewish people have all kinds of
feelings about what Israel is doing. But it's not anti
(07:08):
submitic to criticize Israel. But it is anti submitic to
make Jewish people here responsible somehow for the actions of
the state of Israel. And we don't seem to do
that of any other group of people.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well, look at the Muslim faith after nine to eleven.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, I mean, they also came in for quite a barrage,
and you know that's not right either. But you know,
you know, we have a war between Russia and Ukraine.
Nobody seems to be going down to the local Russian
Orthodox church and trying to set it light. We're not
making Russian Orthodox people responsible for gosh, how many people
(07:50):
have been killed in that war, well over one hundred
and fifty thousand people. They're not responsible for it. Syrian
people here aren't responsible for Syria killing over six hundred
thousand of its own citizens in its civil war. You know,
you can have all kinds of views about Israel, and
you can feel a great deal of empathy and sympathy
(08:12):
for innocent Palestinian people who have been caught up in
this dreadful, dreadful war. Who of us doesn't an ounce
of empathy feel for, you know, innocent people who have
been maimed and killed in this war. It's awful. But
that doesn't mean that you make Jewish people here responsible,
(08:36):
and it doesn't mean that you call for violent up
risings here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Do you worry about the general backlash towards different religions
and faith at the moment, I'm thinking of that Destiny Church.
Brian Tarmaki led protest down Queen Street the other week
where they burned flags and screamed about Christian values.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, we seem to be in a period of binary thinking.
Good and evil and an inability to have tolerance for
other points of view. I mean you can hold nuanced views.
You can in relation to the Palestinians and Israel. You
can feel great empathy for Palestinians whilst also feeling empathy
(09:33):
for the Jewish community. Here. You can think that Israel
has a right to defend itself whilst not liking what
it's doing. Things to do with aid. You can revere
Christianity and it bear your faith without denigrating people of
other faiths. It doesn't have to be in either or,
And we're just seeing the inability for us to talk
(09:56):
with one another, to understand one another, and to tolerate
littlone cherish other belief systems.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
What would you like to see done by the government
or leaders to try and curb some of the sentiment.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, I think it's not just government. We all have
a responsibility here, you know, I'd say too. You know
we've seen protests in our street ostensibly to support Palestinians. Well,
it doesn't bring peace to the world or support Palestinians
to have a sign saying globalize the Intero Fada. I mean,
(10:35):
think about what that is. It is a making violent
terrorism go worldwide. It doesn't help Palestinians to say glory
to the resistance. If you want to see peace in
the world, including in the Middle East or Gaza, don't
support hatred. Those who chann't for death are not peace activists.
(10:58):
So I'd say to those people, don't stand with those
signs and don't stand beside those signs. And if you
truly want peace in Gaza, call for an end to
the war, call for the disarming of Hamas and the
release of all the hostages. So that's what I say
to them. We need to protect our Jewish communities. They
(11:19):
are under enormous threat at the moment. We need police
to take the threats seriously, and I question whether they
are at the moment. And leaders need to call out
anti Semitism and other forms of hatred and not stoke it.
It's not just a government. It's not just for the government.
(11:41):
They have their place, but you know, we all need
to be bringing the temperature down and acting, acting in
the interests of peace and social cohesion here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Do you think that we should have continued, perhaps with
the hate speech laws that the Labour government proposed, but
they were subsequently dropped.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Obviously, you know, I'm not so sure. I'm not so
sure that banning hateful speech has the kind of desired
effect that we want it to have. I think there
is something to the argument that at least you can
you know, you can see it, and you can you
can counter it, you know where it comes from when
it's out there. You know, I'm not sure that a
(12:25):
hate speech law would have added terribly much to the
equation in the time that we're seeing now. I mean,
after all, you know, I know of an incident that
in front of police, in front of police, a protester
screamed at a Jewish woman, I am going to kill you.
I'm going to kill you, you fucking Jewish bitch. He was
(12:45):
restrained by police, He was physically restrained by police, and
they took no further steps against him. Despite a complaint,
and despite having witnessed that threat of violence, he did nothing.
They did nothing. So you know, we have rules at
our box that police are not actually utilizing, and they
(13:07):
and they should and I think, you know, when you
try and shut down speech, it's it's that that question
of who's the arbiter of what speeks you allow and
what speak to you you don't allow. It's it's pretty difficult,
isn't it. Certainly some of the things that we have
been seeing on the streets of New Zealand is terribly worrying,
(13:30):
and they do stoke hatred of Jewish people. But with
the hate speech laws are the answer, I'm not so sure, a.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Semi you anti.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Anti racist? Rue?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Are there any key facts that you'd want protesters or
people to know, the differences perhaps between Israel and the
IDF and your regular Jewish neighbor, because do you think
that the lines are blurred in a sense of you're Jewish,
you must be supporting Israel and all of its actions.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, the first thing to say is that teos, like
everyone else, have the right to support whatever they please.
But I do think there is a blurring of lines.
I think if you ask most Jewish people in New
Zealand whether they support the right of Israel to exist,
they would say yes, just like our government does. And
it's across party lines. Like governments and national led governments
(15:02):
have supported the right of Israel to exist, but they
would have many different opinions about what Israel is doing.
And you know, there is a We're very well known
saying in the Jewish community, and that is too Jews
three opinions. There are lots of different different opinions within
(15:25):
the Jewish community. But Jewish people in New Zealand do
not They do not vote in the Israeli elections. They
are not part of the Israeli government. They are not
responsible for what the Israeli government does. And just because
people support the state of Israel to exist does not
(15:48):
mean that Jewish people get to be responsible in some
way for the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF.
They are not one in the same things. Thing to
say is a bit of empathy in humanity here most
Jewish people. I don't know any Jewish person who doesn't
(16:08):
have enormous empathy for innocent Palestinian people who have been
adversely affected in the most profound ways by this war.
But there's another side to the coin, you know, they
also know lots of people who have been terribly impacted
by this war in Israel. There are Jewish people in
(16:30):
New Zealand who have family and friends who are still
held hostage in Gaza. There are Jewish people in New
Zealand whose family members have been killed in the attacks
on the seventh of October. Whose families my own included,
who have been who have spent hours and hours in
(16:53):
bunkers sheltering from missiles, both since the seventh of October
and before. So you know, we we you know, as
a community, we we do feel punch drunk because we
you know, we we are worried for our family and
our friends. We worry for for Palestinian people who have
(17:17):
been so profoundly affected by this war, and we're having
to combat the real the real life are due hatred
in New Zealand, a country that we are citizens of
and we feel is our home. So it is a
tremendously difficult time for Jewish people living in New Zealand.
(17:40):
And I just say too to those who are ramping
up this hatred, to take pause and to take more
care and what you say and what you do, and
who you will stand beside and what you will stand beside,
because you know, we can see the effects of it,
the real life effects is impacting the Jewish community. And
(18:03):
you know, if you think to yourself, well on not Jewish,
it doesn't affect me. It's about who we are as
a society. And you let one hatred grow, or you'll
let other hatreds grow in due course. So I think
it's a very worrying time for New Zealand and New Zealanders.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Thanks for joining us, Deborah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Go well, Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(18:49):
tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page,
a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Anti
Semitic sentiment has risen globally since the war in Gaza began,
including in our own part of the world. A man
has been charged after a Melbourne synagogue was set a
(00:27):
light last Friday. The alleged anti Semitic attack has seen
the country's Home Affairs Minister describe it as an attack
on Australia. The attacks prompted the country's Labor Party to
push for reforming the school curriculum to teach children about antisemitism.
But these kind of anti Jewish attitudes aren't reserved for
(00:49):
our trans Tasman neighbors. An Enzi Jewish Council report last
year found that in the twelve months from October seven,
twenty twenty three, there were two hundred and twenty seven
and recorded anti Semitic incidents, a jump from one hundred
and sixty six in the eight and a half years prior.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
How has the Gaza conflict exacerbated these tensions and how
can the Jewish faith be separated from the actions of
the State of Israel today? On the front page. Holocaust
Center of New Zealand chair Deborah Hart joins us to
discuss the rise of antisemitism here and how we might
be able to combat it. Deborah, what do you make
(01:33):
of the alleged arson attack on a Melbourne synagogue at
the weekend.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, there's been increasing levels of anti Semitism end violent
action aimed at Jewish people and institutions in Australia, culminating
on Friday, with actually three separate but aligned incidents, the
fire bombing of a synagogue, the fire bombing and vandalism
of a business, and some anti masked extremist terrorizing diners
(02:03):
at an Israeli owned restaurant, and miss Norm chanting death
to the IDF. This comes after numerous incidents of jew hatred,
fire bombings, hatefield rhetoric and threats of violence. So it's actually,
unfortunately not surpriser.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I mean, this is the same city where we saw
a neo Nazi protest out in the open. It seems
like this type of hate has been bubbling away at
the surface there for some time now.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yes, and we shouldn't feel too high and mighty ourselves
because there's been skyrocketing levels of jew hatred in this
country as well, and really pretty nasty incidents happening here.
It's very very similar tracks that we're seeing in Australia
(02:52):
to what we're seeing here as well. We've see skyrocketing
levels of anti Semitism, particularly since the seventh October, but
it was increasing prior to that time as well.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
What are some of the types of abuse you've seen
against the Jewish community here in New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Gosh, how long have you got at the Holocaust Center
of New Zealand. We did a survey about this time
last year. Actually eighty percent of parents who answered see
their children had suffered anti Semitic incidents at school. What
does that look like? Well, we're dealing with a teacher
who demanded of a three year old in a day
(03:30):
care to answer if he was Israeli and then man
handled him three times. A Jewish student was given a
haih Hitler salute and punched in the face. A Jewish
child's uniform was covered in anti Semitic slogans and symbols.
These are all separate attacks. A Jewish child was repeatedly harassed,
pushed to the ground, and his kippa the skull cat
(03:52):
knocked off his head and told he can't wear that here. Worse,
worse awful in universities, avert support for Humus, which is
a terrorist organization named such by the New Zealand government,
repeated calls to globalize the into Fada, campaigns at universities
(04:13):
to rid students and academics of Jews who support Israel's
right to exist. We've had a Jewish family had an
anti Semitic campaign targeted at all of their neighbors. We've
had at the Holocaust Center of New Zealand. Like many
Jewish institutions, we regularly receive hate mail. We have had
(04:34):
the graffiti was it last month in Wellington that stated
I hated Jews before it was called. There was an
assault against an Israeli tourists last month. There's been an
assault at a vigil for the hostages held in Gaza.
I mean, I can go on and on and on,
you know, and it includes Jewish businesses being doped, boycotted
(04:56):
and attacked, and demands of artists Gewish artists in museums
and musicians and artists to condem as well if they
want to keep their exhibitions in these gigs. I mean
it is comprehensive. It runs the gamut of violent assaults
to hateful retruck.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
The punk band Bob Villan have said that they are
being targeted for speaking up after their comments during a
Glastonbury show were branded anti Semitic, and that they now
face a police investigation. The Rab Duo led an anti
Israeli military chant during their Glastonbury set at the weekend.
The BBC has been criticized for continuing to show the
live stream of the performance on Saturday. In a statement,
(05:42):
the band said, today a good many people would have
you believe a punk band is the number one threat
to world peace. Last week it was a Palestine pressure group.
The week before that it was another band. Where not
for the death of Jews, Arabs or any other race
or group of people, Where for the dismantling of a
violent treat machine.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I mean a lot of this sentiment against Israel and
the IDF has come from pro Palestinian protesters or those
opposed to what's happened or happening in Gaza. And of
course the events of October seven were horrific and inexcusable.
The conflict over the last two years in Gaza has
been extremely violent, as well, there's no denying that, and
there have been reports of residents being shot and killed
(06:28):
while trying to reach aid, children starving, injured unable to
be treated. But is it right to say that the
actions of IDF are not indicative of the feelings of
all Jewish people, just the same as the actions of
har Mass can't be blamed on all Palestinians.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah. Look, and Israel as a sovereign nation state, it's government.
It does what its government is going to do. Jewish
New Zealanders are not responsible for the actions of a
foreign nation state. And Jewish people have all kinds of
feelings about what Israel is doing. But it's not anti
(07:08):
submitic to criticize Israel. But it is anti submitic to
make Jewish people here responsible somehow for the actions of
the state of Israel. And we don't seem to do
that of any other group of people.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well, look at the Muslim faith after nine to eleven.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, I mean, they also came in for quite a barrage,
and you know that's not right either. But you know,
you know, we have a war between Russia and Ukraine.
Nobody seems to be going down to the local Russian
Orthodox church and trying to set it light. We're not
making Russian Orthodox people responsible for gosh, how many people
(07:50):
have been killed in that war, well over one hundred
and fifty thousand people. They're not responsible for it. Syrian
people here aren't responsible for Syria killing over six hundred
thousand of its own citizens in its civil war. You know,
you can have all kinds of views about Israel, and
you can feel a great deal of empathy and sympathy
(08:12):
for innocent Palestinian people who have been caught up in
this dreadful, dreadful war. Who of us doesn't an ounce
of empathy feel for, you know, innocent people who have
been maimed and killed in this war. It's awful. But
that doesn't mean that you make Jewish people here responsible,
(08:36):
and it doesn't mean that you call for violent up
risings here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Do you worry about the general backlash towards different religions
and faith at the moment, I'm thinking of that Destiny Church.
Brian Tarmaki led protest down Queen Street the other week
where they burned flags and screamed about Christian values.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, we seem to be in a period of binary thinking.
Good and evil and an inability to have tolerance for
other points of view. I mean you can hold nuanced views.
You can in relation to the Palestinians and Israel. You
can feel great empathy for Palestinians whilst also feeling empathy
(09:33):
for the Jewish community. Here. You can think that Israel
has a right to defend itself whilst not liking what
it's doing. Things to do with aid. You can revere
Christianity and it bear your faith without denigrating people of
other faiths. It doesn't have to be in either or,
And we're just seeing the inability for us to talk
(09:56):
with one another, to understand one another, and to tolerate
littlone cherish other belief systems.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
What would you like to see done by the government
or leaders to try and curb some of the sentiment.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, I think it's not just government. We all have
a responsibility here, you know, I'd say too. You know
we've seen protests in our street ostensibly to support Palestinians. Well,
it doesn't bring peace to the world or support Palestinians
to have a sign saying globalize the Intero Fada. I mean,
(10:35):
think about what that is. It is a making violent
terrorism go worldwide. It doesn't help Palestinians to say glory
to the resistance. If you want to see peace in
the world, including in the Middle East or Gaza, don't
support hatred. Those who chann't for death are not peace activists.
(10:58):
So I'd say to those people, don't stand with those
signs and don't stand beside those signs. And if you
truly want peace in Gaza, call for an end to
the war, call for the disarming of Hamas and the
release of all the hostages. So that's what I say
to them. We need to protect our Jewish communities. They
(11:19):
are under enormous threat at the moment. We need police
to take the threats seriously, and I question whether they
are at the moment. And leaders need to call out
anti Semitism and other forms of hatred and not stoke it.
It's not just a government. It's not just for the government.
(11:41):
They have their place, but you know, we all need
to be bringing the temperature down and acting, acting in
the interests of peace and social cohesion here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Do you think that we should have continued, perhaps with
the hate speech laws that the Labour government proposed, but
they were subsequently dropped.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Obviously, you know, I'm not so sure. I'm not so
sure that banning hateful speech has the kind of desired
effect that we want it to have. I think there
is something to the argument that at least you can
you know, you can see it, and you can you
can counter it, you know where it comes from when
it's out there. You know, I'm not sure that a
(12:25):
hate speech law would have added terribly much to the
equation in the time that we're seeing now. I mean,
after all, you know, I know of an incident that
in front of police, in front of police, a protester
screamed at a Jewish woman, I am going to kill you.
I'm going to kill you, you fucking Jewish bitch. He was
(12:45):
restrained by police, He was physically restrained by police, and
they took no further steps against him. Despite a complaint,
and despite having witnessed that threat of violence, he did nothing.
They did nothing. So you know, we have rules at
our box that police are not actually utilizing, and they
(13:07):
and they should and I think, you know, when you
try and shut down speech, it's it's that that question
of who's the arbiter of what speeks you allow and
what speak to you you don't allow. It's it's pretty difficult,
isn't it. Certainly some of the things that we have
been seeing on the streets of New Zealand is terribly worrying,
(13:30):
and they do stoke hatred of Jewish people. But with
the hate speech laws are the answer, I'm not so sure, a.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
Semi you anti.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Anti racist? Rue?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Are there any key facts that you'd want protesters or
people to know, the differences perhaps between Israel and the
IDF and your regular Jewish neighbor, because do you think
that the lines are blurred in a sense of you're Jewish,
you must be supporting Israel and all of its actions.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Well, the first thing to say is that teos, like
everyone else, have the right to support whatever they please.
But I do think there is a blurring of lines.
I think if you ask most Jewish people in New
Zealand whether they support the right of Israel to exist,
they would say yes, just like our government does. And
it's across party lines. Like governments and national led governments
(15:02):
have supported the right of Israel to exist, but they
would have many different opinions about what Israel is doing.
And you know, there is a We're very well known
saying in the Jewish community, and that is too Jews
three opinions. There are lots of different different opinions within
(15:25):
the Jewish community. But Jewish people in New Zealand do
not They do not vote in the Israeli elections. They
are not part of the Israeli government. They are not
responsible for what the Israeli government does. And just because
people support the state of Israel to exist does not
(15:48):
mean that Jewish people get to be responsible in some
way for the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF.
They are not one in the same things. Thing to
say is a bit of empathy in humanity here most
Jewish people. I don't know any Jewish person who doesn't
(16:08):
have enormous empathy for innocent Palestinian people who have been
adversely affected in the most profound ways by this war.
But there's another side to the coin, you know, they
also know lots of people who have been terribly impacted
by this war in Israel. There are Jewish people in
(16:30):
New Zealand who have family and friends who are still
held hostage in Gaza. There are Jewish people in New
Zealand whose family members have been killed in the attacks
on the seventh of October. Whose families my own included,
who have been who have spent hours and hours in
(16:53):
bunkers sheltering from missiles, both since the seventh of October
and before. So you know, we we you know, as
a community, we we do feel punch drunk because we
you know, we we are worried for our family and
our friends. We worry for for Palestinian people who have
(17:17):
been so profoundly affected by this war, and we're having
to combat the real the real life are due hatred
in New Zealand, a country that we are citizens of
and we feel is our home. So it is a
tremendously difficult time for Jewish people living in New Zealand.
(17:40):
And I just say too to those who are ramping
up this hatred, to take pause and to take more
care and what you say and what you do, and
who you will stand beside and what you will stand beside,
because you know, we can see the effects of it,
the real life effects is impacting the Jewish community. And
(18:03):
you know, if you think to yourself, well on not Jewish,
it doesn't affect me. It's about who we are as
a society. And you let one hatred grow, or you'll
let other hatreds grow in due course. So I think
it's a very worrying time for New Zealand and New Zealanders.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Thanks for joining us, Deborah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Go well, Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(18:49):
tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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