Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kiyota.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a special bonus episode
of The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The
New Zealand Herald. There have been no official talks yet
about compensation for the complainant against Gevin Mcskimming, The former
deputy police commissioner, is awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty to
(00:28):
having child sexual exploitation and beast reality material on his
work devices. A scathing watchdog report has found some of
the nation's highest ranking officers ignored a young woman's anonymous
complaints against mix Skimming. Instead, she was prosecuted for digital harassment.
(00:50):
The handling of the case has been called appolling by
the now Police Commissioner Richard Chambers and Police Minister Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Today on The.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Front Page, colleague HEROLD Senior reporter Jared Savage is with
us to take us behind the scenes of how this
case unfolded and how the sordid details came to light.
First off, Jared, how did this first come to your attention?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So late last year? Sort of December tweeny twenty four,
we started hearing sort of whispers around how Deputy Commissioner
gim Skimming was possibly under criminal investigation that related to
a complaint from a young woman who happened to have
worked for the police for some time. So we started,
you know, as we do, started sniffing around and trying
(01:42):
to find out what was going on, and we put
some questions into the police, saying, you know, what's going on,
essentially as the Deputy commissioner under investigation and so on
and so forth, and what happened. The response back was
a typical no comment, but they also said they also said, well,
there's actually another prosecution which we can't tell you about,
(02:06):
and there are massive suppression orders all over it, which
means that essentially you're gagged from saying anything. So that
was the starting point. We broke a story saying that
jem mcskimming was under investigation, but we can't retell you
much more than that. Now. As time went on, mc skimming,
(02:29):
the police investigation uncovered quite extreme pornographic material on his
work devices. So he denied these allegations that we couldn't report.
He denied these allegations saying I'm innocent, you know, and
I'm looking forward to coming back to work. That was
in January. Shortly after that, the police found the subjectionable
(02:50):
material on his devices, and that triggered a separate criminal investigation,
and as we now know, he pleaded guilty to a
possession of abjected material. He had to resign in disgrace,
and that easy yet to be sentenced on that. However,
there was this underlying what had happened was is that
the other investigation, which we couldn't report on, we kept
(03:12):
on digging and we've we found out what was going
on there. And what had happened was is that the
woman who had made these allegations about mic skimming had
in that been prosecuted for essentially a harassment campaign of
multiple emails, and so of course her defense was, well,
(03:33):
I'm telling I'm telling you, I'm telling the truth about
this guy. And that is only just this week we
managed to fight the suppressions getting uplifted. And that's what's
how everything has tumbled out in the last couple of days.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Because it would be so frustrating knowing that there was
something under the surface, being kind of so close but
yet so far because of those blanket suppressions. And it
is important though, when something is suppressed, when there are
two concurrent cases happening at the same time a suppression
on both of them, you need, right.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean, in this case, the suppression orders were
put in at the time of that she was arrested
in the middle of last year. The suppression orders were
put in place ostensibly to protect mc skimmings's reputation. He
was about to put his hand up for the top job.
If they had been reporting of these emails accusing him
of being a sexual predator, obviously that wouldn't have been
(04:26):
good for his chances of getting that job, regardless of
the veracity of the allegations. So therefore, the suppressions were
put in place to sort of stop further harm to
him and his reputation and his Stanley. But of course
that's the narrative that he was putting putting forward, and
that was the reason why the police didn't take these
(04:46):
allegations from this young woman seriously at the time. They
didn't investigate them. They chose to basically accept his version
of events on face value, and that's led to these
charges and suppressions. And it was incredibly frustrated because, you know,
as we were on following these cases, you know, throughout
(05:08):
the year, we kind of knew that the IPC A
report was going to come out and make this quite
sort of damning findings about how senior police handled the allegations,
and up until you know, five pm on Tuesday on
Tuesday night, like, we were fighting to get it lifted
because if we didn't succeed, the IPC A report couldn't
(05:29):
be published and we can tell you the full story.
And yeah, very frustrating, but yeah, you've got a as
a reporter, you've got to stick to the six of
the laws and the rules, and you know, we're just
lucky that we had the resources to fight it.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I suppose, Jared, what kind of pressures are there that
come with reporting on people in power, especially within the
police hierarchy. You're juggling, you know, getting answers from police,
but obviously work very closely with them in your capacity
as a senior crime reporter. Is it quite difficult to juggle?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, because often the people that you're speaking with are
unable to speak to you in an official capacity or
on the record, so you're just getting snippets of information
here or there. You know, the police have a large
communications team of pr advisors, so often when you're a reporter,
they actually can know a lot more than you about
(06:28):
the case or what's going on, So it can sometimes
be like shining a bit of a torch in a
darkened room. You can just see one little bit, but
you know there's other stuff happening in the in the shadows.
On top of that, you've got to be very careful
legally around not defaming people, making sure that everyone has
the right to reply. In this case, you had multiple
(06:51):
things going on. There was developments all the time, so
you're having to report at speed and have political ramifications
as well. So this was a this was quite a
tricky story to report on. Now that the floodgates are open,
it's all it's all coming out, and that's great because
sunlight's the best disinfectant and and that's brilliant. But but at
(07:13):
the time when you're reporting on things, yeah, you're not
you're not always entirely one hundred percent certain, and you've
got to work really hard to confirm things or corroborate
things even when people aren't, you know, cooperating essentially, And
in this case, the suppression order has made it harder
as well, because people could just turn around, you know,
(07:34):
government agencies and departments or individuals involved could say we
can't talk to you about that because it's suppressed. So yeah,
and at the same time, you as a journalist, you're
wanting to be incredibly fear to people like you know
you're making these you're publishing these allegations. You know you've
got to give everyone an opportunity to be heard. And yeah,
(07:57):
you fight, you walk a fine line at times.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I mean, I lead an organization of fifteen thousand men
and woman who do an incredible job day and night
across the country. I know how hard they work because
I'm connected to the front line. You know this report,
the findings, there's a kick in the guts for them.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
They are no different to me.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
We take a huge amount of pride in the job
that we do for our country. That won't change. What
will change is we will make a swift action of
implementing this with my new leadership team, and we will
do our absolute best to ensure this never happens again.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It doesn't really seem like Chambers or Mitchell were too
privy to a lot of this information before the IPCA
report actually landed on their desks. I mean, what did
you think reading those one hundred and thirty five pages.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It's a bombshell of a report. May have seen anything
quite like it. Into of fifteen twenty years of reporting
on these matters, that really dived into a lot of detail,
the intermassinations of what was happening at Police National Headquarters
and the failures of many senior beliefs to not investigate
what was run in front of them. They actually named
(09:24):
certain officers and they're including the former Commissioner Andrew Costa,
and detail quite significant failings over a long period of
time by a number of police officers. Essentially, what it
boils down to is this young woman has made allegations
of quite serious sexual and physical nature against jem mcskimming.
(09:44):
His explanation for all of this was, look, we were
in a consensual a year. It's ended badly and this
is a campaign of harassment or revenge to destroy my career.
And instead of stopping to think, well, maybe she's telling
the truth here and maybe we need to investigate, but
just wholesale brought his vision of events, and you know,
(10:08):
it's brought down the entire weight of the States to
prosecute her and drag her through the court system. And
so it's a huge power balance. Yeah, it's it's quite
it's a staggering report in the end, like the police
didn't lay criminal charges against Geno Mixginning in relation to
her complaint, but that you know, that's sort of that's
(10:32):
sort of by the buy and away this this report
details with this this long running attempts to Yeah, they
just they just didn't look at it. And it's it's
quite staggering and it's been a huge amount of damage
to the New Zealand place. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I've read a fair few I p c A reports
and similar as well A And what struck me was
the language. It was quite emotive, more emotive than what
you would expect with these kind of things. So I
actually remember gasping when I saw the press release come
through from Richard Chambers using the word appalling, which is unusual.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Right, Yeah, very you could sense, I mean he said
he was angry, and you could sense the anger in
the press release, but also the subsequent press conference with
Richard Chambers, the police, mister Mark Mitchell and Judith Collins
attune in general quite an emotional press conference, a lot
(11:30):
of anger and disappointment in it. I think it's because
they realized the damage that this does to the reputation
of the New Zealand Police. It brings up or resurrects
a lot of bad memories from the Beijley Reports sort
of twenty years ago, where again there were allegations of
cover ups and serious sexual complaints made against police officers.
(11:51):
You know, so this is history repeating in some regards,
and you know, I guess the police would have been
kind of hoping some of those attitudes of bariing in
the past. But I mean, here it's it's quite clear
that they they believe Mick Skimmings vision of events and
they didn't want to hurt his shot at the top job.
(12:13):
And it's it's it's it's.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Remarkable as a reporter, how does it feel sitting on
this information and what does a day in the life
look like when you're trying to hunt down these leads.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Most of it is really boring league work, So it's.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Not like the movies and Spotlight where they're running around
town and opening up files and things.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Certainly not quite as dramatic as the movies make out,
but I mean a lot of it is simply calling people,
filing requests for court documents, talking to two people involved
in the case, and just sort of trying to piece
piece it all together. We had quite a nervous wait
on Tuesday. We were obviously waiting to we you know,
we had engage lawyers to try and get uppressions lift it,
(13:00):
and we had a story prepared to go, and you know,
little bits and pieces were leaking out and other you know,
other media, and you know, there's there's pressure to make
sure that we're complying with the suppression orders. They'd also
be the first to break the story, and so yeah,
it was a bit of a relief when we were
able to do so and get it out at sort
of you know, five oh one on Tuesday night, and
(13:21):
everything just fell out of that, and obviously there was
a bit of a feeding frenzy with the press conference
and the ips air report coming out. So yeah, it's
a good reminder actually about you know, the value of
transparency and the value and journalists, you know, and it
wasn't just me, it's other journalists and other newsrooms as well,
(13:42):
and also without our newsroom, support of editors and lawyers
to try and get this over the line so that
people could be fully informed about it. And I guess
that shows the value of the media, and it's sort
of watched og role in the.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Fourth estate, and we'll just end on that. I think
one of the most important aspects of this story, and
that's the woman involved at the center of this case.
So I understand that you've spoken to her legal counsel.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes, I've spoken to Stephen Lackett, who barised an author. Yep.
He you know, he gave quite a strong statement to
the Herald for that first story in relation to how
the police had failed his client, that instead of treating
her as a potential victim, that they have chosen to
ignore her essentially and brought the full weight of the
(14:28):
state down instead of devastating impact on her. The Lewis
is and so I would not be surprised that at
some point there's going to be some kind of civil
or compensation kind of claim brought against the police in
relation to this. And yeah, it'll be interesting to see
how that plays out as well.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Thanks for joining us, Jared Legia Jose.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at ends at herold dot co z. The Front Page
is produced by Jane Yee and Richard Martin, who's also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(15:14):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.