December 4, 2025 • 23 mins
Auckland’s CBD should be at its brightest right now, but this Christmas season has exposed just how far the city has slipped.
The former Smith and Caughey’s building - once the centre of Auckland’s festive traditions with its iconic window displays and enchanted forest - now sits dark.
Across the CBD, retail spending is down, site vacancy rates are up, and the district has been plagued by stalled developments and empty lots.
But could a new life for Auckland be on the horizon? The long-awaited City Rail Link is set open next year and Seascape, the country’s tallest residential tower, is resuming construction after a series of delays.
Today on The Front Page, NZ Herald property editor Anne Gibson joins us to unpack what’s really happening in the heart of Auckland and whether we might see a Christmas miracle for the City of Sails.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Auckland's CBD
should be at its brightest right now, but this Christmas
season has exposed just how far the city has slipped.
The former Smith and Coe's Building, once the center of
(00:28):
Auckland's festive traditions, with its iconic window displays and enchanted forest,
now sits dark Across the CBD, retail spending is down, site,
vacancy rates are up, and the district has been plagued
by stalled developments and empty lots. But could a new
life for Auckland be on the horizon. The long awaited
(00:51):
city rail link is expected to open next year, and Seascape,
the country's tallest residential tower, is resuming struction after a
series of delays. Today on the Front Page ends at Herald,
Property editor An Gibson joins us to unpack what's really
happening in the heart of Auckland and whether we might
see a Christmas miracle for the city of Sales. First off,
(01:17):
and anyone visiting Auckland's CBD can attest that there seems
to be a lot of retail vacancies. You walk down
to Queen Street, for example, and there's you know, every
second shop's got a four lease sign in the window.
But that's just anecdotal, that's just me walking down Queen Street.
What does the data actually say?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
In May, Baileys did a study of the CBD retail
area of Auckland and what they found was that thirteen
percent of it as vacant. Now that was actually down
on what it had been it had been last year
sixteen percent, but still, you know, in other parts of
New Zealand it's not as high as that, and the
(01:58):
suburban areas of Auckland. A note that, for example, the
vacancy red on the North Shore and retail is only
five percent, West Auckland two point eight, the Auckland Metropolitan
Area wider area four point three, in South Auckland only
three point one. So the CBD's been really hard all
the factors we know about, including COVID and CRL and
(02:21):
many other combinations of hell for them.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, but in terms of have you been into the
CBD lately, I mean we work kind of close to it,
but really, have you gone to Queen Street to pick
up something?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I have to go there yeah, but two months ago,
maybe I wouldn't linger put it that way. It doesn't
draw me, it doesn't attract me. I'm interested in it
because I write about the buildings, and buildings are really important,
but as a retail experience doesn't do it for me.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
We spoke earlier this year and went through some of
the major sites that are sitting empty in Auckland. Give
me a bit of a refresh. What were they and
anything changed within the last few months.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes. In my August Property inside a column, I wrote
about the vacant lots, the buildings that are derelict or
look abandoned, or where plans were hatched but never actually fulfilled.
Places like the food Alley on Albert Street, which is
an entire block where the old Yates building stood and
(03:25):
that is owned by Singaporeans. Now it's all fenced off
and it's just literally a vacant lot, and there are
plans for that but they haven't come to any fruition.
So that hasn't changed. Those two big sites that have
been vacant for nearly forty years now, so that's the
Royal International Hotel on Elliott Street and the ex Auckland
(03:46):
Star site in between Fort Street and Shortland Street. So
I had contact James Callo from New Zealand Mortgages and Securities.
They said to me, sat in line, we're getting closer
to Suva than Sydney. Now, I thought that was actually
(04:07):
not a bad summation. Unfortunately, I identified about twelve big moribund, vacant, empty,
undeveloped or plans not happening sites and so I haven't
seen any big changes. There's been nothing that's occurred since
I wrote that in August to those sites.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And that's a really good line as well, more like
Suva than Sydney, because Auckland does kind of fancy itself
as the Sydney of New Zealand, doesn't it. That's where
you go for the big jobs, That's where you go
for the big money, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But when I say that, James Callow meant more like
a Suva than Sydney, and meaning that in a bad way.
He was really talking about the way, the direction or
the way that the CBD is looking at the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, and just because it's not suber is not ever
going to be a thriving metropolis. New York's and your
London's and your Sydney's. Obviously it's still a beautiful place,
but it's just not what business people are aspiring to.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I suppose it was quite derogatory, quite a derogatory comment.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, just as a consumer, Black Friday felt a bit
different this year. So on one hand, I was bombarded
with the ads and the offers and up to sixty
percent off et cetera, et cetera. But that's another podcast entirely,
isn't it about how good Black Friday actually is nowadays?
But I also thought, yeah, a lot of people complaining
(05:33):
about they're not being good enough deals. They're saying that
they're not partaking this year at all because of the
cost of living crisis coming up to Christmas as well.
It's not really like it used to be. Has there
been a reduction in retail spending overall?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, well, you're right. Black Friday didn't turn out to
be the great hope for retailers that it was anticipated
to be. And in fact, the non food good spending
was down this year six point two percent, so we're
not seeing that big rebound. And this is this slightly
moribun state of the economy at the moment, where the
(06:12):
construction sector is really still in the downturn. We've got
very high unemployment and I have a number of friends
who are looking for jobs keeping an eye on what's
going on. I've tried to help some. It's really tough.
I know one person who's applied for I think nearly
eighty jobs now. And if you're on a winds benefit,
(06:34):
you have to proactively seek work. You can't just do nothing,
and so that's really tough.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Despite the fact that interest rates have come down, it
hasn't fired up our economy. My colleaguelium Dan writes about
green shirts, but as he wrote the other day, you
can't eat green shoots, you know. So cost of living,
high unemployment, low economic growth and low confidence is really
serious issues for the New Zealand economy. And I think
we're all hoping that twenty twenty six will be a better.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Year because we had the thrive in twenty twenty five
or survive until twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I wonder what.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Rhymes with twenty twenty six?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
What can we kind oftically? And also was saying to
Liam the other day, what is this big downturn in
New Zealand? Called like we had the GFC and you know,
we know about the I don't know the different downturns.
I've usually got names the sharmarket pressure of the eighties.
But I said to what was this one called? And
he said, it doesn't officially have a name. And then
of course I consulted AI, as all good journalists do
(07:39):
these days, and it said that New Zealand's economy was
actually different to the economies of a lot of other countries,
so there was no global name for this big downturn
that we were in at the moment, because guess what,
not global.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So you've come down today for the sale? How often
did you come to Smith and Cohen? Probably definitely for Christmas,
but alternative other times as well, you know, just whenever
we were in the location. But it's just so sad
that it's going. It's just the icon, isn't it. Being
(08:20):
English and used to big old shops like this. New
Zealand only has this one, so it's you know, it's
really sad that it's going.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Going back to Queen Street. I'm going to take us
back there. It's really going to miss Smith and Coey's
this Christmas, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
It's very sad And even that center that was on
the side of the old witch call spots. I miss him, yeah,
on the corner of Queen of Victoria Street. Well, he
was retired. His last year was evidently twenty nineteen. Now
the amazing family, the Mensins, who are so influential in
terms of development in Auckland, they funded Center I think
in about twenty fourteen for three years. But now he's
(09:01):
somewhere down south I think because Heart of the city
said that he was costing something like two hundred thousand
dollars a year to put up. But back to Smith
and Coey's right, so the board decided enough of Center.
The board decided in duringe to sell that property. Well,
so they've got two properties, They've got the Queen Street
one and one on Bolbone new Market. So they took
(09:22):
the decision, talked to Peter Alexandra about this to actually
sell it and they place the property with the number
of agencies. Now we yet to hear of anything as
I understand it. The new Market property has sold. But
there's a demolition specialist firm called rip it Out New
Zealand and in mid July they were on social media
(09:44):
picture removing fixtures and fittings in the lovely old ground
floor where they sold so many cosmetics, and the wonderful
men's clothing area, and you know all those great memories
that I think we have of Smith and Coey's, which,
as you say, such a begin institution in all right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, So we don't know what the plans are for
the Queen Street Smith and Colley's side, because it is
an iconic building.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Theres people talk about things like maybe a language school
or offices or actually a few people have mentioned the
idea of converting it into apartments because I think it
is a heritage building, so you know, not far away,
John Love of Loving Company turned the original civic administration
(10:30):
building into apartments. That's an eighteen level structure. The very
expensive job, but very beautiful result. And John loved something
really interesting. He actually sought to patronize New Zealand businesses.
So the windows come from thermosash and the appliances I
think a Fisher and pikel and he went out to
(10:51):
be a patriot and do something quite different in terms
of that building. That's the largest office to residential conversion
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Do we just need to move on from this idea
of needing to shop in the city or go into
the CBD, or you know, just that mentality and just
accept that city life has changed, it's not the hub
that it used to be, and just deal with it.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, you know, I find it really interesting the Ikea
opening and the big focus on that a regional hub,
you know, Sylvia Park, and also the huge popularity of
Costco Now. I think Nicola Willison announced when the cost
Covers announced for Drury that there are two hundred and
fifty thousand members of Costco in New Zealand. Now those
(11:42):
people are all paying sixty dollars annual subscription. So I
think I think you're right to some extent, the CBD
is not what it was, although we have to remember
big precincts of it like Commercial Bay and Scott Pritchard
and precinct properties who have done the most outstanding job
of converting that area of the waterfront, but also like
(12:04):
Peter Cooper and Cooper and Company and Matthew Cochran, the
CEO with Britomart, which again is outstanding. So we have
that real mixture. You know, we're talking about Smith and Coe's,
but if you go down near the waterfront and look
at those two precincts. They're very different. You could be
in a totally different city right when you're I don't know,
(12:27):
walking past the beautiful Tiffany's store and Britomart and Tikomitt
Dounga Square and you know, just outside Commercial Bay, they
are very beautiful. And also the CPO has been refurbished
and that's owned by Cooper and co and facing Te
committed Tonguel Square, and that's a very different experience, right,
and it's somehow very indigenous with the way that they've integrated,
(12:51):
you know, the use of native plants and landscaping, the
hard landscaping, the colors, the design, the thoughtfulness and guess what,
there's a giant Christmas tree down there. At the moment
as I understand it, I've not seen it myself.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh that was going to be my next question. I know,
maybe we should go down there. So in terms of that,
that makes that what you say to me there and
what I think of Brittemart and in Commercial Bay and
the thoughtfulness behind that, that's what makes New Zealand special,
right is that thoughtfulness and that patriotism to our roots
(13:26):
and the design and architecture of it all. Do we
need that for Queen Street.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, it's just extraordinary when you think. You know, precinct
properties are billion dollars on Commercial Bay and by the way,
they haven't finished. They've got two very big towers up
to I think fifty six levels or more that will
be the tallest in New Zealand of the book when
they're book. And also Britamark Peter Cooper's vision of taking
(13:51):
eighteen run down, gyrelict old industrial warehouses populated by pigeons
and rats and a terrible straight and turning that into
the wonderful britom Ark precinct. What a vision that man has. Yes,
so how can you spread that?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
See?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I think what makes those two precincts really special is
the waterfront location of them as well. And also you
have to pay tribute to Auckland Transport and the vision
to convert that part of Key Street. So Key Street
four Lane Highway was a thoroughfare very like I don't know,
if you've been to San Francisco and got off the
ferry there and tried to get into the Cebeach I have, yeah, right,
(14:32):
so you walk across the motorway, right, Yeah, Well that's
what Key Street used to be a little bit light, right,
And then I think that the vision that occurred there
is just outstanding and it really changes the city, and
it gives a completely different face to the city, for say,
the visitors on cruise ships. You know, it really is
(14:53):
outstanding what they've done. Wouldn't it be great if that
could be moved further up the street, you say, But
then you're getting away from the water work.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I know it's that hard cell that Queen Street is.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I need more jeanes?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Fine, let's go.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Slack awes.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So I never lend.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I've heard these ads for the City Rail Link, right,
everyone's obviously getting excited for it opening next year, and
I hear these ads being like, you could be at
your home looking at a pair of jeans on your
phone and be at Karangahabe Road in twenty minutes on
the CRL, and I kind of my first reaction was, well,
(15:51):
I can buy those jeans online, number one. Number two,
Why would I go into the city at all when
I can go and get those genes at Newmarket or
even Sylvia Park or something like that. But obviously there
is this push to bring people back and that suggestion
of yes you can, it's not long. You don't have
to look around for parking, you don't have to pay
(16:12):
for parking in the CBD because you've got the CRL
and the convenience of it. Do you think that that's
going to breathe new life into the city.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Well, I think we've got three things that are pretty amazing.
We've got the CRL, We've got the New Zealand International
Convention Center, and there is also the very big apartment
to our seascape. Now take one of those alone. For example,
with the CRL, the projection is nineteen thousand passengers in
the peak hour per hour.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
That is slightly down from the original twenty seven thousand
projection according to my colleague Bernard Oorsman, but still that
number of people. So cities really thrived when there are
lots of people. That's what they need to bring them alive.
So I think your point's a really good one. Seascape
yet to be finished with. I don't know whether Icon
(17:02):
Apparent it doesn't seem to have signed the contract with
Shaundi Customs to come in there, but there are evidently
people working on the site at the moment and the
ends that ice see the media open day in late
November and seeing inside there for the first time, and
you know the number of people who could come in there.
You know, they have got something like ninety five events
(17:24):
booked for next year alone. Wow, and you know something
like fifteen thousand, ten des are expected to go to
just fifteen of those. Now, the real beauty of what
we're talking about is crl to whyhot A two station.
The central one is right beside scar City Albert Street
(17:45):
with the scar City Grand actually faces the WAYHOA two station,
and so then you've got a series of three blocks
that Scarcity have connected up with walkways across the streets,
so that's sort of flow and that connection and those numbers,
we could really begin to see something change in the
(18:08):
heart of Auckland there. And I do have to pay
tribute to VIVBC and Heart of the City and all
that they are doing. It's a tough role. But you know,
I really hope that CR and the inns of at
ICC and these sort of changes in Auckland that it
will revive the center of town. I mean, I think
that is a reasonable expectation.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I would really hope.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
So Actually, because I think about that convention center and
the people and the amount of people that it will
bring into Auckland, CBD. At the moment, though, would you
be embarrassed for a group of Danish diplomats wanting to
grab something for lunch or wanting to go and check
out the local shopping scene and walking down to Queen
(18:53):
Street from the International Convention Center.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I don't think we've got any reason to be embarrassed.
I think some astonishing restaurants. And my favorite is actually
El Brown's the Depot. I just have to say that
because look, you can sit outside. I love the food.
I've been going there for years. Right beneath you know,
Skar City, right a block from the Convention Center, the
sky City Hotel, Horizon Hotel with a new onlex bar
(19:17):
is outstanding. Ahe by Ben Bailey down in Commercial Bay.
I mean, these are phenomenal places that really do the
best to showcase I think New Zealand food. You know,
you've got the Depot, which is pretty casual and I
love that Kiwi style of it. And then Ben Bailey
with fire and all the beauty of his open kitchen
(19:38):
and the Cawi dishes and the beautiful tables. I mean,
those are just two that I'm naming, but I'm not
all embarrassed. I talk a couple of Irish friends up
through the CBD midwinter on the wettest Sunday imaginable, and
they loved walking up Albert Street because guess what on
Albert Street I didn't know this. There are a whole
(19:58):
lot of boards explaining the history. So we walk quite
quickly past the yates and ex food ali vacant lot.
They didn't work on that because they're busy reading the
boards up Albert Street. And just in the last little
while we've also had I think at announced that the
buses are back on Albert Street, right, so that's beginning
(20:19):
to come alive after all that hell of the CRL.
But I don't think that we should think that the
CROL construction was. It's it's just not personal to us.
When they put the big Asian kilometer tram through the
center of Sydney. I mean, my friends who retailers there
had major conniptions. And I saw the tram, the light
(20:41):
rail going being built up and down the GC and
Queensland right, same thing. You know, businesses complaining. But at
the end, guess what you can go from one end
of the Gold Coast right up to meet the heavy
rail and get into Brisbane. I mean the benefits of path.
I know the pain was extraordinary. I do appreciate that,
but I also think that in terms of the provision
(21:03):
of infrastructure, we need to be looking and thinking long term.
I got to tell you the story when the Harbor
Bridge was being built, and when it was finished in
nineteen fifty nine, people said, why do we need a
harbor bridge? There's any strawberry fields on the north shore
back of vision.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So you've taken the diplomats out to dinner at our Browns,
obviously had a beautiful cocktail on us and seeing the
sunset on one of our beautiful rooftop bars. But then
what if you take them down Queen Street or up
Queen Street rather and past the same James Theater, past
the Metro Center, past the Dead Smith and Coe's. What
about that?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Not so good?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Not so good?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Not going on long way from the water gets worse, right,
But what I'd have to say to you is that
end of town is getting a number of large student
accommodation blocks one three hundred million, and so there's a
lot of students around there in the daytime, and those
blocks are actually quite perfectly situated in that location, just
(22:05):
oft Lawn Street actually between aut and the University of Auckland,
So there are positives. There is development going around there,
just not on that just not so much on that
big strip, although the Childs are also converting an office
building into a hotel. Again, there is development occurring around there,
(22:26):
not as dramatic obviously as the changes on the waterfront.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So we shouldn't say is Auckland dying or dead? We
should say it isn't dead yet.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Auckland has been rebuilt and is being rebuilt, which is
terribly exciting. The worst thing that can happen is just
for people to leave and for me to be right
about all the dead sites. I don't want to be right.
I want to see the changes. I want to see
the excitement and the joy of it all, and the
coming alive and the people, just as you say, the
(22:57):
Danes arriving here and searching for the beautiful restaurants.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Thanks for joining us, Anne.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzid Herald dot co dot enz The Front Page
is produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is
also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front
page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(23:31):
tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.
Kilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Auckland's CBD
should be at its brightest right now, but this Christmas
season has exposed just how far the city has slipped.
The former Smith and Coe's Building, once the center of
(00:28):
Auckland's festive traditions, with its iconic window displays and enchanted forest,
now sits dark Across the CBD, retail spending is down, site,
vacancy rates are up, and the district has been plagued
by stalled developments and empty lots. But could a new
life for Auckland be on the horizon. The long awaited
(00:51):
city rail link is expected to open next year, and Seascape,
the country's tallest residential tower, is resuming struction after a
series of delays. Today on the Front Page ends at Herald,
Property editor An Gibson joins us to unpack what's really
happening in the heart of Auckland and whether we might
see a Christmas miracle for the city of Sales. First off,
(01:17):
and anyone visiting Auckland's CBD can attest that there seems
to be a lot of retail vacancies. You walk down
to Queen Street, for example, and there's you know, every
second shop's got a four lease sign in the window.
But that's just anecdotal, that's just me walking down Queen Street.
What does the data actually say?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
In May, Baileys did a study of the CBD retail
area of Auckland and what they found was that thirteen
percent of it as vacant. Now that was actually down
on what it had been it had been last year
sixteen percent, but still, you know, in other parts of
New Zealand it's not as high as that, and the
(01:58):
suburban areas of Auckland. A note that, for example, the
vacancy red on the North Shore and retail is only
five percent, West Auckland two point eight, the Auckland Metropolitan
Area wider area four point three, in South Auckland only
three point one. So the CBD's been really hard all
the factors we know about, including COVID and CRL and
(02:21):
many other combinations of hell for them.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, but in terms of have you been into the
CBD lately, I mean we work kind of close to it,
but really, have you gone to Queen Street to pick
up something?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I have to go there yeah, but two months ago,
maybe I wouldn't linger put it that way. It doesn't
draw me, it doesn't attract me. I'm interested in it
because I write about the buildings, and buildings are really important,
but as a retail experience doesn't do it for me.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
We spoke earlier this year and went through some of
the major sites that are sitting empty in Auckland. Give
me a bit of a refresh. What were they and
anything changed within the last few months.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yes. In my August Property inside a column, I wrote
about the vacant lots, the buildings that are derelict or
look abandoned, or where plans were hatched but never actually fulfilled.
Places like the food Alley on Albert Street, which is
an entire block where the old Yates building stood and
(03:25):
that is owned by Singaporeans. Now it's all fenced off
and it's just literally a vacant lot, and there are
plans for that but they haven't come to any fruition.
So that hasn't changed. Those two big sites that have
been vacant for nearly forty years now, so that's the
Royal International Hotel on Elliott Street and the ex Auckland
(03:46):
Star site in between Fort Street and Shortland Street. So
I had contact James Callo from New Zealand Mortgages and Securities.
They said to me, sat in line, we're getting closer
to Suva than Sydney. Now, I thought that was actually
(04:07):
not a bad summation. Unfortunately, I identified about twelve big moribund, vacant, empty,
undeveloped or plans not happening sites and so I haven't
seen any big changes. There's been nothing that's occurred since
I wrote that in August to those sites.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And that's a really good line as well, more like
Suva than Sydney, because Auckland does kind of fancy itself
as the Sydney of New Zealand, doesn't it. That's where
you go for the big jobs, That's where you go
for the big money, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But when I say that, James Callow meant more like
a Suva than Sydney, and meaning that in a bad way.
He was really talking about the way, the direction or
the way that the CBD is looking at the moment.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, and just because it's not suber is not ever
going to be a thriving metropolis. New York's and your
London's and your Sydney's. Obviously it's still a beautiful place,
but it's just not what business people are aspiring to.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I suppose it was quite derogatory, quite a derogatory comment.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, just as a consumer, Black Friday felt a bit
different this year. So on one hand, I was bombarded
with the ads and the offers and up to sixty
percent off et cetera, et cetera. But that's another podcast entirely,
isn't it about how good Black Friday actually is nowadays?
But I also thought, yeah, a lot of people complaining
(05:33):
about they're not being good enough deals. They're saying that
they're not partaking this year at all because of the
cost of living crisis coming up to Christmas as well.
It's not really like it used to be. Has there
been a reduction in retail spending overall?
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, well, you're right. Black Friday didn't turn out to
be the great hope for retailers that it was anticipated
to be. And in fact, the non food good spending
was down this year six point two percent, so we're
not seeing that big rebound. And this is this slightly
moribun state of the economy at the moment, where the
(06:12):
construction sector is really still in the downturn. We've got
very high unemployment and I have a number of friends
who are looking for jobs keeping an eye on what's
going on. I've tried to help some. It's really tough.
I know one person who's applied for I think nearly
eighty jobs now. And if you're on a winds benefit,
(06:34):
you have to proactively seek work. You can't just do nothing,
and so that's really tough.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Despite the fact that interest rates have come down, it
hasn't fired up our economy. My colleaguelium Dan writes about
green shirts, but as he wrote the other day, you
can't eat green shoots, you know. So cost of living,
high unemployment, low economic growth and low confidence is really
serious issues for the New Zealand economy. And I think
we're all hoping that twenty twenty six will be a better.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Year because we had the thrive in twenty twenty five
or survive until twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I wonder what.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Rhymes with twenty twenty six?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
What can we kind oftically? And also was saying to
Liam the other day, what is this big downturn in
New Zealand? Called like we had the GFC and you know,
we know about the I don't know the different downturns.
I've usually got names the sharmarket pressure of the eighties.
But I said to what was this one called? And
he said, it doesn't officially have a name. And then
of course I consulted AI, as all good journalists do
(07:39):
these days, and it said that New Zealand's economy was
actually different to the economies of a lot of other countries,
so there was no global name for this big downturn
that we were in at the moment, because guess what,
not global.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So you've come down today for the sale? How often
did you come to Smith and Cohen? Probably definitely for Christmas,
but alternative other times as well, you know, just whenever
we were in the location. But it's just so sad
that it's going. It's just the icon, isn't it. Being
(08:20):
English and used to big old shops like this. New
Zealand only has this one, so it's you know, it's
really sad that it's going.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Going back to Queen Street. I'm going to take us
back there. It's really going to miss Smith and Coey's
this Christmas, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
It's very sad And even that center that was on
the side of the old witch call spots. I miss him, yeah,
on the corner of Queen of Victoria Street. Well, he
was retired. His last year was evidently twenty nineteen. Now
the amazing family, the Mensins, who are so influential in
terms of development in Auckland, they funded Center I think
in about twenty fourteen for three years. But now he's
(09:01):
somewhere down south I think because Heart of the city
said that he was costing something like two hundred thousand
dollars a year to put up. But back to Smith
and Coey's right, so the board decided enough of Center.
The board decided in duringe to sell that property. Well,
so they've got two properties, They've got the Queen Street
one and one on Bolbone new Market. So they took
(09:22):
the decision, talked to Peter Alexandra about this to actually
sell it and they place the property with the number
of agencies. Now we yet to hear of anything as
I understand it. The new Market property has sold. But
there's a demolition specialist firm called rip it Out New
Zealand and in mid July they were on social media
(09:44):
picture removing fixtures and fittings in the lovely old ground
floor where they sold so many cosmetics, and the wonderful
men's clothing area, and you know all those great memories
that I think we have of Smith and Coey's, which,
as you say, such a begin institution in all right.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, So we don't know what the plans are for
the Queen Street Smith and Colley's side, because it is
an iconic building.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Theres people talk about things like maybe a language school
or offices or actually a few people have mentioned the
idea of converting it into apartments because I think it
is a heritage building, so you know, not far away,
John Love of Loving Company turned the original civic administration
(10:30):
building into apartments. That's an eighteen level structure. The very
expensive job, but very beautiful result. And John loved something
really interesting. He actually sought to patronize New Zealand businesses.
So the windows come from thermosash and the appliances I
think a Fisher and pikel and he went out to
(10:51):
be a patriot and do something quite different in terms
of that building. That's the largest office to residential conversion
in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Do we just need to move on from this idea
of needing to shop in the city or go into
the CBD, or you know, just that mentality and just
accept that city life has changed, it's not the hub
that it used to be, and just deal with it.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, you know, I find it really interesting the Ikea
opening and the big focus on that a regional hub,
you know, Sylvia Park, and also the huge popularity of
Costco Now. I think Nicola Willison announced when the cost
Covers announced for Drury that there are two hundred and
fifty thousand members of Costco in New Zealand. Now those
(11:42):
people are all paying sixty dollars annual subscription. So I
think I think you're right to some extent, the CBD
is not what it was, although we have to remember
big precincts of it like Commercial Bay and Scott Pritchard
and precinct properties who have done the most outstanding job
of converting that area of the waterfront, but also like
(12:04):
Peter Cooper and Cooper and Company and Matthew Cochran, the
CEO with Britomart, which again is outstanding. So we have
that real mixture. You know, we're talking about Smith and Coe's,
but if you go down near the waterfront and look
at those two precincts. They're very different. You could be
in a totally different city right when you're I don't know,
(12:27):
walking past the beautiful Tiffany's store and Britomart and Tikomitt
Dounga Square and you know, just outside Commercial Bay, they
are very beautiful. And also the CPO has been refurbished
and that's owned by Cooper and co and facing Te
committed Tonguel Square, and that's a very different experience, right,
and it's somehow very indigenous with the way that they've integrated,
(12:51):
you know, the use of native plants and landscaping, the
hard landscaping, the colors, the design, the thoughtfulness and guess what,
there's a giant Christmas tree down there. At the moment
as I understand it, I've not seen it myself.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh that was going to be my next question. I know,
maybe we should go down there. So in terms of that,
that makes that what you say to me there and
what I think of Brittemart and in Commercial Bay and
the thoughtfulness behind that, that's what makes New Zealand special,
right is that thoughtfulness and that patriotism to our roots
(13:26):
and the design and architecture of it all. Do we
need that for Queen Street.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, it's just extraordinary when you think. You know, precinct
properties are billion dollars on Commercial Bay and by the way,
they haven't finished. They've got two very big towers up
to I think fifty six levels or more that will
be the tallest in New Zealand of the book when
they're book. And also Britamark Peter Cooper's vision of taking
(13:51):
eighteen run down, gyrelict old industrial warehouses populated by pigeons
and rats and a terrible straight and turning that into
the wonderful britom Ark precinct. What a vision that man has. Yes,
so how can you spread that?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
See?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I think what makes those two precincts really special is
the waterfront location of them as well. And also you
have to pay tribute to Auckland Transport and the vision
to convert that part of Key Street. So Key Street
four Lane Highway was a thoroughfare very like I don't know,
if you've been to San Francisco and got off the
ferry there and tried to get into the Cebeach I have, yeah, right,
(14:32):
so you walk across the motorway, right, Yeah, Well that's
what Key Street used to be a little bit light, right,
And then I think that the vision that occurred there
is just outstanding and it really changes the city, and
it gives a completely different face to the city, for say,
the visitors on cruise ships. You know, it really is
(14:53):
outstanding what they've done. Wouldn't it be great if that
could be moved further up the street, you say, But
then you're getting away from the water work.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I know it's that hard cell that Queen Street is.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I need more jeanes?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Fine, let's go.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Slack awes.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So I never lend.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I've heard these ads for the City Rail Link, right,
everyone's obviously getting excited for it opening next year, and
I hear these ads being like, you could be at
your home looking at a pair of jeans on your
phone and be at Karangahabe Road in twenty minutes on
the CRL, and I kind of my first reaction was, well,
(15:51):
I can buy those jeans online, number one. Number two,
Why would I go into the city at all when
I can go and get those genes at Newmarket or
even Sylvia Park or something like that. But obviously there
is this push to bring people back and that suggestion
of yes you can, it's not long. You don't have
to look around for parking, you don't have to pay
(16:12):
for parking in the CBD because you've got the CRL
and the convenience of it. Do you think that that's
going to breathe new life into the city.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Well, I think we've got three things that are pretty amazing.
We've got the CRL, We've got the New Zealand International
Convention Center, and there is also the very big apartment
to our seascape. Now take one of those alone. For example,
with the CRL, the projection is nineteen thousand passengers in
the peak hour per hour.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
That is slightly down from the original twenty seven thousand
projection according to my colleague Bernard Oorsman, but still that
number of people. So cities really thrived when there are
lots of people. That's what they need to bring them alive.
So I think your point's a really good one. Seascape
yet to be finished with. I don't know whether Icon
(17:02):
Apparent it doesn't seem to have signed the contract with
Shaundi Customs to come in there, but there are evidently
people working on the site at the moment and the
ends that ice see the media open day in late
November and seeing inside there for the first time, and
you know the number of people who could come in there.
You know, they have got something like ninety five events
(17:24):
booked for next year alone. Wow, and you know something
like fifteen thousand, ten des are expected to go to
just fifteen of those. Now, the real beauty of what
we're talking about is crl to whyhot A two station.
The central one is right beside scar City Albert Street
(17:45):
with the scar City Grand actually faces the WAYHOA two station,
and so then you've got a series of three blocks
that Scarcity have connected up with walkways across the streets,
so that's sort of flow and that connection and those numbers,
we could really begin to see something change in the
(18:08):
heart of Auckland there. And I do have to pay
tribute to VIVBC and Heart of the City and all
that they are doing. It's a tough role. But you know,
I really hope that CR and the inns of at
ICC and these sort of changes in Auckland that it
will revive the center of town. I mean, I think
that is a reasonable expectation.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I would really hope.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
So Actually, because I think about that convention center and
the people and the amount of people that it will
bring into Auckland, CBD. At the moment, though, would you
be embarrassed for a group of Danish diplomats wanting to
grab something for lunch or wanting to go and check
out the local shopping scene and walking down to Queen
(18:53):
Street from the International Convention Center.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I don't think we've got any reason to be embarrassed.
I think some astonishing restaurants. And my favorite is actually
El Brown's the Depot. I just have to say that
because look, you can sit outside. I love the food.
I've been going there for years. Right beneath you know,
Skar City, right a block from the Convention Center, the
sky City Hotel, Horizon Hotel with a new onlex bar
(19:17):
is outstanding. Ahe by Ben Bailey down in Commercial Bay.
I mean, these are phenomenal places that really do the
best to showcase I think New Zealand food. You know,
you've got the Depot, which is pretty casual and I
love that Kiwi style of it. And then Ben Bailey
with fire and all the beauty of his open kitchen
(19:38):
and the Cawi dishes and the beautiful tables. I mean,
those are just two that I'm naming, but I'm not
all embarrassed. I talk a couple of Irish friends up
through the CBD midwinter on the wettest Sunday imaginable, and
they loved walking up Albert Street because guess what on
Albert Street I didn't know this. There are a whole
(19:58):
lot of boards explaining the history. So we walk quite
quickly past the yates and ex food ali vacant lot.
They didn't work on that because they're busy reading the
boards up Albert Street. And just in the last little
while we've also had I think at announced that the
buses are back on Albert Street, right, so that's beginning
(20:19):
to come alive after all that hell of the CRL.
But I don't think that we should think that the
CROL construction was. It's it's just not personal to us.
When they put the big Asian kilometer tram through the
center of Sydney. I mean, my friends who retailers there
had major conniptions. And I saw the tram, the light
(20:41):
rail going being built up and down the GC and
Queensland right, same thing. You know, businesses complaining. But at
the end, guess what you can go from one end
of the Gold Coast right up to meet the heavy
rail and get into Brisbane. I mean the benefits of path.
I know the pain was extraordinary. I do appreciate that,
but I also think that in terms of the provision
(21:03):
of infrastructure, we need to be looking and thinking long term.
I got to tell you the story when the Harbor
Bridge was being built, and when it was finished in
nineteen fifty nine, people said, why do we need a
harbor bridge? There's any strawberry fields on the north shore
back of vision.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So you've taken the diplomats out to dinner at our Browns,
obviously had a beautiful cocktail on us and seeing the
sunset on one of our beautiful rooftop bars. But then
what if you take them down Queen Street or up
Queen Street rather and past the same James Theater, past
the Metro Center, past the Dead Smith and Coe's. What
about that?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Not so good?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Not so good?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Not going on long way from the water gets worse, right,
But what I'd have to say to you is that
end of town is getting a number of large student
accommodation blocks one three hundred million, and so there's a
lot of students around there in the daytime, and those
blocks are actually quite perfectly situated in that location, just
(22:05):
oft Lawn Street actually between aut and the University of Auckland,
So there are positives. There is development going around there,
just not on that just not so much on that
big strip, although the Childs are also converting an office
building into a hotel. Again, there is development occurring around there,
(22:26):
not as dramatic obviously as the changes on the waterfront.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
So we shouldn't say is Auckland dying or dead? We
should say it isn't dead yet.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Auckland has been rebuilt and is being rebuilt, which is
terribly exciting. The worst thing that can happen is just
for people to leave and for me to be right
about all the dead sites. I don't want to be right.
I want to see the changes. I want to see
the excitement and the joy of it all, and the
coming alive and the people, just as you say, the
(22:57):
Danes arriving here and searching for the beautiful restaurants.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Thanks for joining us, Anne.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzid Herald dot co dot enz The Front Page
is produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is
also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front
page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(23:31):
tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.
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