August 18, 2024 • 18 mins
Whistleblowers at the Civil Aviation Authority have issued a dire warning about aviation safety in New Zealand.
Staff describe a toxic culture, with the CAA’s director “asleep at the wheel”.
Data obtained by the Herald has revealed over six hundred thousand dollars has been spent on legal fees related to employment issues, complaints and investigations.
And it has prompted warnings that the agency’s investigative approach could mean ‘more people will die’.
Today on The Front Page, NZ Herald senior investigative reporter Michael Morrah joins us to discuss what he’s learned about the people meant to keep us safe in the skies.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer: Paddy Fox
Producer: Ethan Sills
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Whistleblowers at
the Civil Aviation Authority have issued a dire warning about
aviation safety in New Zealand. Staff describe a toxic culture
(00:28):
with the CIA's director asleep at the wheel. Data obtained
by The Herald has revealed over six hundred thousand dollars
has been spent on legal fees related to employment issues,
complaints and investigations, and its prompted warnings that the agency's
investigative approach could mean more people will die. Today on
(00:53):
the Front Page ends at Herald, Senior investigative reporter Michael
Morritt joins us to discuss what he's learned about the.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
People meant to keep us safe in disguise.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Michael, can you just remind us what the Civil Aviation
Authority is?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
What are they tasked with doing?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, so they are a Crown entity and they are
charged with both overseeing aviation regulatory performance in New Zealand,
but also they oversee ABSEEC or our aviation security service
at the airports.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
How did this story come about?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
How many people have you actually spoken to for this investigation.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
So I've spoken to seven sources for this investigation. They
are a mix of current staff members and some former
staff members. I guess the important thing to point out
to listeners is that it is highly unusual for government
employees to go on the record with a journalist, and
I think that speaks volumes that they have done that.
(01:59):
They are obviously very nervous about being identified, so I
won't be revealing who those people are. But they felt
and have told me that they came to me because
it was the last option and they could not get
change or action through senior leaders at CIA about their concerns.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, one thing that the whistleblowers have told you is
that they believe that the CIA is turning their back
on being.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
As safety regulator. What's happening here and why are staff
so concerned?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, there are two sets of concerns. One is around
the changes to the organization from an investigative approach, and
the second set of concerns relates to what staff describe
as a toxic culture where bullying and harassment is an
ongoing problem. Let's deal with the first issue. The main
(02:53):
thing that's happening at the moment is that there has
been a significant change program undertaken at the CA that
has involved combining the safety investigation team with the enforcement team.
My sources are concerned that the CIA is going to
take a greater enforcement role. It is more focused now
(03:17):
on prosecutions. Historically, how the civil aviation has worked, and
this has been the case for many years, is that
they haven't had a system of what's called just culture.
Now just culture is a system where they work with
industry and if there are mishaps or mistakes or problems
like near misses or if a door falls off an
(03:37):
airplane or something like that, they feel that they can
come to the CIA and not to fy authorities about
that freely without facing any sort of punishment. The concern
is that CIA is moving towards more of an enforcement focus,
and in turn that industry or aviation operators, people who
(04:00):
fly helicopters and planes, people who crew them, will be
less likely to be transparent and open with the CIA
about what's going on. And that is a significant concern
by my sources because they believe that will ultimately lead
to aviation in New Zealand becoming more unsafe, and it
(04:22):
ultimately puts at risk New Zealanders who travel on planes
every day.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
The culture or the direction of the organization has changed
from being more of a safety regulator, if you like,
to a compliance and enforcement type regulator, and so we've
sort of turned our back on that now and gone
more towards a punitive type approach. That's ultimately what's going
to potentially cause more accidents to happen.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
If we don't get it together. The outcome is a
catastrophic accident, another Fox Glecia, another cartertan Bloon accident, like
our traveling public is going to die because we can't
get our shit in one sock.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Now, it's important to point out that the CIA has
told me that the changes are not about increasing enforcement
activity or taking a more punitive approach to investigations. They
say that they have made these changes based on a
review by Mike heron KC and that they are following
(05:22):
all their obligations and are still very much dedicated to
safety outcomes. In fact, they believe the changes will improve
safety for all New Zealanders. So their side of the
story is very different to what my sources say. It's
worth pointing out, however, while I have seven sources raising
(05:42):
concerns about this. Their concerns are also backed up by
a leaked PSA survey that I have been given.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
This survey details comments from dozens of other current staff members,
and I'll just read you one of the comments from
one of the staff members in that because I think
it encapsulates the concerns of staff at the CIA. They
have said that the proposal exposes the authority to unacceptable
(06:14):
risk at the expense of the flying public of Alted
New Zealand. They go on to say that this could
have reputational damage or cause reputational risk to the organization.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And how have people's concerns about the direction of the
CIA or what it's taken led to what's been described
as very toxic.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
The overriding concern, and this has been the case for
some time, is that when concerns are raised, they are
not dealt with properly and quickly by the senior leadership
at the CIA. They feel like the changes that are
being proposed have essentially been forced through and those who
(06:58):
have had different opinions have been isolated or excluded, and
in some cases good staff have been effectively forced out
of their position.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
I've decided to talk about what's happening internally at CIA.
Because good people are leaving, good people are being pushed out.
It's going to impact public safety. If someone raises a concern,
be very careful, you will be exited. That's why a
lot of people don't want to speak up anymore.
Speaker 7 (07:28):
We were all encouraged to be upstanders, not bystanders when
we're missing inappropriate behavior. And when you did upstand, you
were ignored. And it got to the point where I
just had to leave. I knew that I wasn't going
to change the system.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Now, just talking about this concern about a sort of
a toxic culture, which is what my sources say prevails
at the Civil Aviation Authority. This is in some way
verified by official information that I have obtained. And this
is basically looking at the time period from June twenty
(08:07):
twenty two until June twenty twenty four, so very recent.
It's the last two years, and that reveals that there
were sixty four complaints raised by staff about behavior at
the CIA, sixteen complaints related to inappropriate behavior, twenty seven
complaints related to bullying and harassment. Now, the CIA says,
(08:30):
well that official information you got actually represented complaints by
staff at both CIA and ad SEC, and if you
split them, which they have done for me, the number
of complaints from actual CIA staff is less. It's about
seventeen complaints. In saying that the CIA still acknowledges that
(08:52):
any complaints are still concerning to it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, what's it costing the CIA those complaints?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, I was pretty shock, to be honest, to see
what is being spent on dealing with employment issues. My
sources have pointed out, of course, that the CIA does
have internal employment lawyers, they have internal staff who could
deal with this. However, the official information shows that six
(09:19):
hundred and forty four thousand dollars was spent on external
lawyers to deal with employment issues, internal complaints or investigations,
and that, according to my sources, is in their words, unbelievable,
in a horrific amount of money when you consider that
the CIA has their own legal.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Team and that money was that over that two years.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Correct, that's just the past two years.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
But given that is taxpayer money, what role does this
organization have with the government and can the gover government
step in?
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Ultimately, it's a crown entity, government agency. It is answerable
to the Minister same and Brown, and there are calls
because of the perceived inaction by senior leaders at the CIA,
for the Minister to intervene. All my sources have said
it is critical that he does because in their mind
(10:24):
and in their words, the CIA is a train that
is out of control and about to wreck. So the
concerns are great from my sources. They have serious concerns
about major, serious dysfunction within this government organization.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And this is all coming after a twenty twenty ministerial
review by the then Transport Minister Phil Twiford that revealed
a culture of bullying and harassment at the organization. What
was done in the wake of that report and seemingly,
why hasn't it worked?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, look, it's a good question. And I was the
reporter responsible for exposing concerns in twenty nineteen that prompted
this ministerial review. In twenty nineteen, I was approached by
a completely separate and different group of whistleblowers from within
the CIA, and they spoke to me about complaints being
(11:20):
covered up, about sexual harassment and bullying, complaints being disregarded
by managers, and at that time, the Transport Minister Phil
Tweyford intervened and launched a ministerial review. The review verified
my reporting that essentially bullying and harassment had been enabled
(11:40):
by senior leaders and that it had continued for some time,
and the issue there was that it was essentially the
leadership who had failed now in this case. After that
there was the resignation of then Director of the CIA,
Graham Harris, and Nigel Gould, who was the chair woman
of the board, was effectively sacked by Transport Minister Phil Twyford.
(12:05):
He was sacked because he questioned the motives of the
whistleblowers who had spoken to me, which of course didn't
go down very well with the Transport Minister at the time,
so there was big talk of changes. There was a
special project setup to try and make it a more
safe and inclusive working environment, to try and improve culture. Evidently,
(12:28):
it appears in recent years that has not worked as
it should have, and the bullying and the words of
my sources is worse than it's ever been.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
In places it is horrendous. Where I know there are
people who simply will not go into the office because
of the attitude and having to see certain people. Managers
have literally berated other people for their thoughts, their opinions,
their views on things in front of other staff. Currently,
it does feel like we're on a train that's out
(13:08):
of control about to wreck, and they're just sitting back
waiting to see where it ends.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So while the focus has been on this special project
called to Carcino to try and improve culture, it has
not worked essentially. And the concern from my sources is
that when they raise complaints, sometimes they are actively discouraged
from raising complaints, and other times when they go right
(13:41):
up to the director, they are concerned that he doesn't
always act on what he's being told. So it's pretty
disappointing as a journalist. You know, I worked really hard
on that story. I felt that the minister at the
time did the right thing by stepping in and launching
this ministerial inquiry, and a lot of work was done
(14:02):
to improve culture and there was a new focus. And
yet here we are in twenty twenty four and the
same problems are playing out where my sources say there
is a toxic undercurrent within the CIA.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Well, the current director and chief executive now is Keith
Manch and people have described him to you as being
asleep at the wheel, going so far as to call
him Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
What's the issue there with him?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think the main concern is my sources say he's
trying to put out so many fires, in their words,
with problems at the agency, that he's just not being
effective at his role as director. They don't believe he's
been effective at reducing the number of bullying or harassment complaints.
(14:52):
They don't believe he's been effective at making CIA's culture
and working environment a lot better, and they just sort
of think he's essentially, you know, missing an action. And
they also believe that complaints that have gone directly to
him have been downplayed or disregarded, given responses like hey,
(15:15):
thanks for your feedback, we'll look into that, but then
nothing eventuates. And that's the concern here, is that my
sources have done the right thing. They've tried to, you know,
stand up as they were encouraged to do post the
twenty nineteen twenty twenty minister and inquiry, stand up and
be heard. Yet when they are standing up, they're not
being listened to, or sometimes when they're standing up, they're
(15:38):
actually being encouraged not to lay a complaint because it
might come back on them. And that's the worry is
that people who are raising concerns end up themselves they
feel being targeted.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
It's about being put into the cross heres of these people.
I've been made aware of growing men in tears because
of what has been done to them, and people are
just kind of backing off now. They don't want to
stand up, They don't want to say anything because you
know that you'll be the next person that's going to
be targeted by them.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
We're seeing a huge decline in reporting because they are
fearful of reporting.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
More people will die if industry stop all the free reporting.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
How has the CIA responded to these claims?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, look, I sent a series of very specific questions
to the CIA. Unfortunately they did not answer most of them,
but they did say that they're still working on culture
issues and that, in their words, having a respectful, safe
and inclusive workplace remains a key and ongoing priority for
(16:47):
the CIA's director, Keith Manch and that they've introduced a
whole lot of things and initiatives to try and improve
workplace culture. For example, ninety eight percent of all staff
have completed an online bull being, harassment and discrimination course,
and most senior leaders have completed a development program with
special assessments and coaching, so they're very clear that they
(17:12):
have a zero tolerance approach to this sort of behavior
and are still working on this as a priority. As
is evident from my sources, it doesn't appear to be
going very well.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
What do you expect will happen next in this well?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I don't know, but I suspect that there may be
others within CIA who have relevant information about the goings
on at the agency, and if they do, I would
encourage those people to get in touch with me. I
think that the new Transport Minister, Siman Brown, will find
the story of interest and I would expect that he
(17:49):
would want to have a discussion with the Civil Aviation
Authority its leaders about what we have exposed in this
exclusive story this morning.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Thanks for joining us, Michael.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzed Herald dot co dot z. The Front Page
is produced by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patty Fox.
I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts and Tune in tomorrow
(18:28):
for another look behind the headlines.
Hilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Whistleblowers at
the Civil Aviation Authority have issued a dire warning about
aviation safety in New Zealand. Staff describe a toxic culture
(00:28):
with the CIA's director asleep at the wheel. Data obtained
by The Herald has revealed over six hundred thousand dollars
has been spent on legal fees related to employment issues,
complaints and investigations, and its prompted warnings that the agency's
investigative approach could mean more people will die. Today on
(00:53):
the Front Page ends at Herald, Senior investigative reporter Michael
Morritt joins us to discuss what he's learned about the.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
People meant to keep us safe in disguise.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Michael, can you just remind us what the Civil Aviation
Authority is?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
What are they tasked with doing?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, so they are a Crown entity and they are
charged with both overseeing aviation regulatory performance in New Zealand,
but also they oversee ABSEEC or our aviation security service
at the airports.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
How did this story come about?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
How many people have you actually spoken to for this investigation.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
So I've spoken to seven sources for this investigation. They
are a mix of current staff members and some former
staff members. I guess the important thing to point out
to listeners is that it is highly unusual for government
employees to go on the record with a journalist, and
I think that speaks volumes that they have done that.
(01:59):
They are obviously very nervous about being identified, so I
won't be revealing who those people are. But they felt
and have told me that they came to me because
it was the last option and they could not get
change or action through senior leaders at CIA about their concerns.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, one thing that the whistleblowers have told you is
that they believe that the CIA is turning their back
on being.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
As safety regulator. What's happening here and why are staff
so concerned?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, there are two sets of concerns. One is around
the changes to the organization from an investigative approach, and
the second set of concerns relates to what staff describe
as a toxic culture where bullying and harassment is an
ongoing problem. Let's deal with the first issue. The main
(02:53):
thing that's happening at the moment is that there has
been a significant change program undertaken at the CA that
has involved combining the safety investigation team with the enforcement team.
My sources are concerned that the CIA is going to
take a greater enforcement role. It is more focused now
(03:17):
on prosecutions. Historically, how the civil aviation has worked, and
this has been the case for many years, is that
they haven't had a system of what's called just culture.
Now just culture is a system where they work with
industry and if there are mishaps or mistakes or problems
like near misses or if a door falls off an
(03:37):
airplane or something like that, they feel that they can
come to the CIA and not to fy authorities about
that freely without facing any sort of punishment. The concern
is that CIA is moving towards more of an enforcement focus,
and in turn that industry or aviation operators, people who
(04:00):
fly helicopters and planes, people who crew them, will be
less likely to be transparent and open with the CIA
about what's going on. And that is a significant concern
by my sources because they believe that will ultimately lead
to aviation in New Zealand becoming more unsafe, and it
(04:22):
ultimately puts at risk New Zealanders who travel on planes
every day.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
The culture or the direction of the organization has changed
from being more of a safety regulator, if you like,
to a compliance and enforcement type regulator, and so we've
sort of turned our back on that now and gone
more towards a punitive type approach. That's ultimately what's going
to potentially cause more accidents to happen.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
If we don't get it together. The outcome is a
catastrophic accident, another Fox Glecia, another cartertan Bloon accident, like
our traveling public is going to die because we can't
get our shit in one sock.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Now, it's important to point out that the CIA has
told me that the changes are not about increasing enforcement
activity or taking a more punitive approach to investigations. They
say that they have made these changes based on a
review by Mike heron KC and that they are following
(05:22):
all their obligations and are still very much dedicated to
safety outcomes. In fact, they believe the changes will improve
safety for all New Zealanders. So their side of the
story is very different to what my sources say. It's
worth pointing out, however, while I have seven sources raising
(05:42):
concerns about this. Their concerns are also backed up by
a leaked PSA survey that I have been given.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
This survey details comments from dozens of other current staff members,
and I'll just read you one of the comments from
one of the staff members in that because I think
it encapsulates the concerns of staff at the CIA. They
have said that the proposal exposes the authority to unacceptable
(06:14):
risk at the expense of the flying public of Alted
New Zealand. They go on to say that this could
have reputational damage or cause reputational risk to the organization.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And how have people's concerns about the direction of the
CIA or what it's taken led to what's been described
as very toxic.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
The overriding concern, and this has been the case for
some time, is that when concerns are raised, they are
not dealt with properly and quickly by the senior leadership
at the CIA. They feel like the changes that are
being proposed have essentially been forced through and those who
(06:58):
have had different opinions have been isolated or excluded, and
in some cases good staff have been effectively forced out
of their position.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
I've decided to talk about what's happening internally at CIA.
Because good people are leaving, good people are being pushed out.
It's going to impact public safety. If someone raises a concern,
be very careful, you will be exited. That's why a
lot of people don't want to speak up anymore.
Speaker 7 (07:28):
We were all encouraged to be upstanders, not bystanders when
we're missing inappropriate behavior. And when you did upstand, you
were ignored. And it got to the point where I
just had to leave. I knew that I wasn't going
to change the system.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Now, just talking about this concern about a sort of
a toxic culture, which is what my sources say prevails
at the Civil Aviation Authority. This is in some way
verified by official information that I have obtained. And this
is basically looking at the time period from June twenty
(08:07):
twenty two until June twenty twenty four, so very recent.
It's the last two years, and that reveals that there
were sixty four complaints raised by staff about behavior at
the CIA, sixteen complaints related to inappropriate behavior, twenty seven
complaints related to bullying and harassment. Now, the CIA says,
(08:30):
well that official information you got actually represented complaints by
staff at both CIA and ad SEC, and if you
split them, which they have done for me, the number
of complaints from actual CIA staff is less. It's about
seventeen complaints. In saying that the CIA still acknowledges that
(08:52):
any complaints are still concerning to it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Well, what's it costing the CIA those complaints?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, I was pretty shock, to be honest, to see
what is being spent on dealing with employment issues. My
sources have pointed out, of course, that the CIA does
have internal employment lawyers, they have internal staff who could
deal with this. However, the official information shows that six
(09:19):
hundred and forty four thousand dollars was spent on external
lawyers to deal with employment issues, internal complaints or investigations,
and that, according to my sources, is in their words, unbelievable,
in a horrific amount of money when you consider that
the CIA has their own legal.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Team and that money was that over that two years.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Correct, that's just the past two years.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
But given that is taxpayer money, what role does this
organization have with the government and can the gover government
step in?
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Ultimately, it's a crown entity, government agency. It is answerable
to the Minister same and Brown, and there are calls
because of the perceived inaction by senior leaders at the CIA,
for the Minister to intervene. All my sources have said
it is critical that he does because in their mind
(10:24):
and in their words, the CIA is a train that
is out of control and about to wreck. So the
concerns are great from my sources. They have serious concerns
about major, serious dysfunction within this government organization.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And this is all coming after a twenty twenty ministerial
review by the then Transport Minister Phil Twiford that revealed
a culture of bullying and harassment at the organization. What
was done in the wake of that report and seemingly,
why hasn't it worked?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, look, it's a good question. And I was the
reporter responsible for exposing concerns in twenty nineteen that prompted
this ministerial review. In twenty nineteen, I was approached by
a completely separate and different group of whistleblowers from within
the CIA, and they spoke to me about complaints being
(11:20):
covered up, about sexual harassment and bullying, complaints being disregarded
by managers, and at that time, the Transport Minister Phil
Tweyford intervened and launched a ministerial review. The review verified
my reporting that essentially bullying and harassment had been enabled
(11:40):
by senior leaders and that it had continued for some time,
and the issue there was that it was essentially the
leadership who had failed now in this case. After that
there was the resignation of then Director of the CIA,
Graham Harris, and Nigel Gould, who was the chair woman
of the board, was effectively sacked by Transport Minister Phil Twyford.
(12:05):
He was sacked because he questioned the motives of the
whistleblowers who had spoken to me, which of course didn't
go down very well with the Transport Minister at the time,
so there was big talk of changes. There was a
special project setup to try and make it a more
safe and inclusive working environment, to try and improve culture. Evidently,
(12:28):
it appears in recent years that has not worked as
it should have, and the bullying and the words of
my sources is worse than it's ever been.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
In places it is horrendous. Where I know there are
people who simply will not go into the office because
of the attitude and having to see certain people. Managers
have literally berated other people for their thoughts, their opinions,
their views on things in front of other staff. Currently,
it does feel like we're on a train that's out
(13:08):
of control about to wreck, and they're just sitting back
waiting to see where it ends.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
So while the focus has been on this special project
called to Carcino to try and improve culture, it has
not worked essentially. And the concern from my sources is
that when they raise complaints, sometimes they are actively discouraged
from raising complaints, and other times when they go right
(13:41):
up to the director, they are concerned that he doesn't
always act on what he's being told. So it's pretty
disappointing as a journalist. You know, I worked really hard
on that story. I felt that the minister at the
time did the right thing by stepping in and launching
this ministerial inquiry, and a lot of work was done
(14:02):
to improve culture and there was a new focus. And
yet here we are in twenty twenty four and the
same problems are playing out where my sources say there
is a toxic undercurrent within the CIA.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Well, the current director and chief executive now is Keith
Manch and people have described him to you as being
asleep at the wheel, going so far as to call
him Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
What's the issue there with him?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think the main concern is my sources say he's
trying to put out so many fires, in their words,
with problems at the agency, that he's just not being
effective at his role as director. They don't believe he's
been effective at reducing the number of bullying or harassment complaints.
(14:52):
They don't believe he's been effective at making CIA's culture
and working environment a lot better, and they just sort
of think he's essentially, you know, missing an action. And
they also believe that complaints that have gone directly to
him have been downplayed or disregarded, given responses like hey,
(15:15):
thanks for your feedback, we'll look into that, but then
nothing eventuates. And that's the concern here, is that my
sources have done the right thing. They've tried to, you know,
stand up as they were encouraged to do post the
twenty nineteen twenty twenty minister and inquiry, stand up and
be heard. Yet when they are standing up, they're not
being listened to, or sometimes when they're standing up, they're
(15:38):
actually being encouraged not to lay a complaint because it
might come back on them. And that's the worry is
that people who are raising concerns end up themselves they
feel being targeted.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
It's about being put into the cross heres of these people.
I've been made aware of growing men in tears because
of what has been done to them, and people are
just kind of backing off now. They don't want to
stand up, They don't want to say anything because you
know that you'll be the next person that's going to
be targeted by them.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
We're seeing a huge decline in reporting because they are
fearful of reporting.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
More people will die if industry stop all the free reporting.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
How has the CIA responded to these claims?
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, look, I sent a series of very specific questions
to the CIA. Unfortunately they did not answer most of them,
but they did say that they're still working on culture
issues and that, in their words, having a respectful, safe
and inclusive workplace remains a key and ongoing priority for
(16:47):
the CIA's director, Keith Manch and that they've introduced a
whole lot of things and initiatives to try and improve
workplace culture. For example, ninety eight percent of all staff
have completed an online bull being, harassment and discrimination course,
and most senior leaders have completed a development program with
special assessments and coaching, so they're very clear that they
(17:12):
have a zero tolerance approach to this sort of behavior
and are still working on this as a priority. As
is evident from my sources, it doesn't appear to be
going very well.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
What do you expect will happen next in this well?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I don't know, but I suspect that there may be
others within CIA who have relevant information about the goings
on at the agency, and if they do, I would
encourage those people to get in touch with me. I
think that the new Transport Minister, Siman Brown, will find
the story of interest and I would expect that he
(17:49):
would want to have a discussion with the Civil Aviation
Authority its leaders about what we have exposed in this
exclusive story this morning.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Thanks for joining us, Michael.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzed Herald dot co dot z. The Front Page
is produced by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patty Fox.
I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts and Tune in tomorrow
(18:28):
for another look behind the headlines.
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