July 2, 2024 • 18 mins
New Zealand’s media industry is facing arguably the biggest shake up in years.
Stuff is closing a newspaper and launching a 6pm bulletin, TVNZ sent execs to on a $30k LA jaunt amidst mass layoffs and a lengthy plan to get back to profitability, and all this while we're readying ourselves for a final goodbye to Newshub.
The Government has finally come to the table with a plan to help the industry – but is it enough?
Today on The Front Page, the Herald’s Media Insider Shayne Currie checks in with us as the media industry continues to go through the motions.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer: Paddy Fox
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Yielda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New Zealand's
media industry is facing arguably the biggest shakeup in years.
Stuff is closing a newspaper and launching a six pm bulletin.
(00:27):
TV and Z sent execs on a thirty thousand dollars
LA jaunt amidst mass layoffs and a lengthy plan to
get back to profitability, and all this while we're readying
ourselves for a final goodbye to news Hub. The government
has finally come to the table with a plan to
help the industry.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But is it enough.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Today on the front page, The Herald's media insider Shane
Curry checks in with us as the media industry continues
to go through the motions.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
The end of Newshub this week.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Shane, we've spoken to you a few times about this
so far this year. What have you heard from inside
their Flower Streets studios as they prepare to wrap things up.
Has everyone kind of accepted their.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Fate, basically been going through a grief process.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I guess, Chelsea, and the initial shock has subsided. A
lot of people are lining up new jobs. We know
around probably a good two dozen people are heading to
Stuff to be part of the new six pm bulletin. There,
I would say yes, resignation to the fact that it
is happening. It will still be a huge shock and
an impact for people on Friday. It will be a
(01:35):
very emotional day. And we are hearing lots of different
things that are going.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
On at the moment.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
For instance, there's a story that I'm working on at
the moment around cut price advertising that Warner Brothers Discovery
will launch as part of the new six pm bulletin.
They want to try and I guess, hoover up as
much of that advertising revenue that's left in the market
as possible. They pay Stuff a flat fee for the
new bulletin, so they know their fixed costs and so
they will be to maneuver their advertising revenue accordingly and
(02:03):
without being shackled to a hugely expensive newsroom.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I guess they can see a new business model emerging that.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Fixed rate cost. Will that help them in terms of longevity?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I think it well.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
I think when we say longevity, I mean we're talking
here about terrestrial television. And I had a big interview
with TV and z's chief executive Jody O'Donnell last week
TV and Z is planning for the option to turn
off terrestrial slash linear television by twenty thirty, whereas Warner
Brothers Discovery the owner of Three, have been a lot
more bullish around the timeframe. They've been talking two or
(02:34):
three years now. That doesn't mean the end of news
per se. It just means the platform changes and we
watch television through digital streaming platforms. Both broadcasters and indeed
the wider media industry have always been gearing up for
that switchover to digital streaming and digital listening. You know,
obviously the likes of podcasts have really taken off in
the last five years, and we're seeing that emerge now
(02:57):
in the traditional television sense.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Is that kind of like the converse we keep having
every five years or so about the dying newspapers and
everything moving to digital and it hasn't really quite happened.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
At all yet.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Well, the interesting thing for the digital publishing companies such
as The Herald owned by ms ME and stuff is
that they've probably had a longer period in order to
sort out their new digital business models. Whereas for television,
the revenue's kind of fallen off a cliff, really suddenly
and sharply in the last twelve months. And that's why
we've had these big announcements in the last three months
(03:29):
about the closure of news Hub, the cutbacks at TVNZ
which will continue into the next financial years. So the
digital publishing companies have had a bit of an advantage
in that sense, and of course we've launched new revenue
models around digital subscriptions and so forth.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
But you're right.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, while people have been harping on for years
about the end of newspapers, the fact is that audiences
for news have never been stronger. The problem for the
news publishers and the media owners is trying to sort
out the business model to sustain newsrooms. And you know,
both ms ME and Stuff have gone into the digit
subscription business now and that revenue complements the traditional advertising revenue.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
And lastly, before I opened it up to any questions,
can I just acknowledge news Hub, who are covering this
press conference for a final time after thirty five years.
It is an organization that has played a big part
in the lives of many Kiwis and I just want
to thank the news Hub is both past and present
for their contributions and for all that you have given
over the better part of four decades.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
The Stuff produced six PM bulletin will launch this Saturday.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Of course, first off, do you think they've kept the
right talent?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
I think in Samantha Hayes, they have a great news reader.
She will face really difficult I think period where you know,
mourning the loss of a newsroom that she's been very
closely attached to for many years, and then suddenly having
to lift herself, you know, basically within forty eight hours
for the new era, and so that will be difficult,
not just for sam but for many of the people
(04:59):
who are across to Stuff. I think they'll do a
great job. I hear that they've got some really whiz
bang graphics and a visual virtual reality kind of studio
in the making that they'll be initially screening it or
producing it out of three's current studios and Flower Street,
but by October they actually have to move. Originally they
were looking at the existing newsroom in Ponsonby, but unfortunately
(05:21):
for them, the studio dimensions or the floor dimensions in
that building don't make for a great studio. So they're
now looking to lease as I understand it, a studio
in Boston Road, where previously three has produced Petty Gower
has issues and the Project.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Three News is promising a new vibrant look and feel
with opportunities for audience engagement. Now what do you think
that'll look like and does it seem like they are
targeting a different audience than news Hub.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, I think they will first and foremost try and
hold on to as many of the existing viewers as possible.
And on any given night, TV three will generate around
two undred thousand viewers for at six o'clock news, so
Stuff will quite rightly be looking to retain as many
of them as possible. And I think in the initial
weeks there'll be a huge curiosity factor about the new bulletin.
(06:11):
I think as time goes on, they really will need
to try and build a new audience, as you say,
and I think through their digital expertise, you know both
Stuff and ends in me having got lots of experience
and knowing all their digital audiences, just how they can
bring some of that thinking into a traditional bulletin.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And I think what we'll see potentially is.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Interaction around polls or quizzes or short or sharp perhaps
bulletins and basically a shake up of what we're traditionally
used to seeing at six o'clock.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Of course, but it's a huge ask on stuff.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
This is three hundred and sixty five bulletins a year,
over and above the usual journalistic output. It's a huge
tall order for that newsroom.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Speaking of stuff you've written, the companies Announstead will stop
publishing Sunday News after sixty one years. The closure comes
and met a raft of closes at Stuff. Community titles
similarly en zed me as proposing cutbacks of several of
its regional newsrooms. A lot of specialist magazines have also
closed down. Is there any hope for regional newsrooms and
(07:11):
niche publications or is this a sign of the times?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Well, I think it's a combination of those things, and
I still am an optimist around regional news. I think
both end and Me and Stuff quite rightly point to
the fact, along with Allied Press in the South Island,
three privately owned media companies that invest the most in
regional New Zealand journalism as opposed to the two state
owned companies. So I think, first and foremost it's important
to state that there are still journalists in these regions,
(07:37):
and so I'm still an optimist in that sense. But
I also see what's happening here, and that is a
redirection of resources, I guess, to reflect audience demand. And
so for the likes of us that enzed me, our
newsrooms in Wellington and christ Church do need to be
beefed up to reflect the population of those two big cities.
And also you know the news that is emanating from
those regions.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well, there has to be huge value in having people
on the ground though Hey just look at Hawk's Bay
and the floods for just one example.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Is it not translating to money in the pockets? Though?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
For media companies having so many people on the ground
in regions, well, I think.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Obviously, newsrooms are very expensive to run. You know, they're
as huge.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
If you'd look at news humbalone, it's more than twenty
million dollars a year, and so this is a huge investment.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
But of course there's a return on that as well.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
I mean, a lot of us get into the game
to make a difference to the world, and that's especially
so in lots of areas of New Zealand. And you're
right You only need to look at the experience of
Hawk's Bay last year and Gisbon and Wider and so
forth to know just how important it was to have
actually not just a digital news provider, but when the
power went out sometimes the only source of news would
(08:41):
have been through a battery powered transistor radio or a
print newspaper, and so we saw that in Hawk's Bay
last year. But certainly I think the business models are
changing rapidly as a whole, and then within different sectors
of the media industry as well, whether that's through regions
geographically or through different platforms such as audio or vision.
So I think at all times the media companies are
(09:02):
looking at the return, but also knowing the importance of
their op.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So I've read some executives at TV and Z maybe
in hot Water over a trip to LA Can you
tell me a bit more about this?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah, well, I did a big piece for the Weekend
Herald and for NZED Herald dot co dot NZ last
weekend on just the demise of news Hub. TV and
Z is also facing similar difficulties. Now, I'm of the
belief that as it's state owned, always has a backstop
in terms of being governorate. I just can't see it
being allowed to fail. I do see big changes ahead
for TV ands ED and indeed they've introduced a five
(09:45):
year digital strategy. It's an all of business transformation. It
means that they're taking their staff along with them, or
trying to at least to help them understand why it's
so important to be able to deliver news and content
digitally first.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But at the same.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Time as they were were proposing restructures and the closure
of shows such as fearg and Sunday and then being
taken to the employment court by the journalist union. At
the same time all of that was happening, three senior
leaders made a trip to the LA screenings to talk
to overseas studios producers, see what's coming in the pipeline
and obviously be on line for that. Now, by and large,
(10:22):
most people understand the need and importance of overseas business trips.
But the problem for TV INZ in this particular instance
is one of the executives posted social media images of
all three of them whining and dining at places like
Chateau Memont, socializing, having a great time, whereas back here
all hell was breaking loose, and so I guess that
was just as one person said to me, someone very
(10:45):
close to TV and Z said to me, it just
sort of reflects, possibly on this occasion, at least to
lack of EQ trying to understand just what's happening back
home and sort of you know, having this great time
in La not a great look.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What is interesting because there is a huge need for
those business trips, especially to scout new shows and get
your hands on them. I read somewhere that three got
into real hot water when they lost home and away
to TV and Z for instance, And people probably don't
realize the impact of those kind of decisions and trips, right.
And look, I'm sure if I saw what ENZ means
(11:19):
EXAC team spent on traveling to conferences and the like,
I would actually cry.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
But it is the actual cost of business, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
That's right, As I say, I don't think anyone begrudges
business trips, as you say, being there, whether that's frontline
journalism or as an exec you know, traveling to some
of these trade shows, it is really important. But portraying
yourself time and time place is also equally important. And
I think that's why I rubbed up so many people
the wrong way, and TV and Z themselves have said,
(11:48):
you know, the business trip was important, and you know
it was important for our future, but the social media
posts wit inappropriate, so that acknowledged that to.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Staff and you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Of course, TV and ZED has outlined a plan to
return to profit ability by twenty thirty and become a
digital first organization.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I saw some.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Suggestions that a twenty four hour news channel could even
be on the cards from TV in set.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Is that just a pipe dream at this stage?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I saw that report, and I saw the commentary from
TV set. I suspect absolutely, they definitely want to launch
new channels digitally. I think a twenty four hour news
channel solely produced out of New Zealand that's a huge
pipe dream and very unlikely. I suspect what they might
look at you you might still have an hour or
two of local news, but then the rest of the
time it's a feed from ITV, BBC, ABC, whoever their
(12:36):
content partners are.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Do you think traditional broadcast TV should still have a
role to play in this country or do you think
the end is no?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Well, I don't think you can fight the tide. I
think you always have to follow your audience and how
they're watching news, devouring news, and as I say, news
is still as strong as ever in terms of audience engagement.
You know, there's big important issues that we as a
media industry need to adreas around trust and quality and
so forth. So the platforms will change. It's like we
were talking about earlier around the demise, so called demise
(13:07):
of newspapers.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Well, newspapers are still here.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It's just that they complement a digital first mentality in
our two biggest digital publishing companies. And it's the same
for TV and Z. People will still want to watch
TV shows if they're high quality and so forth, but
they're watching them now through smart TVs or through their
laptops or mainly through their around phones. That applies to
high level production shows and other applies to news.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And what do you think radio isn't suffering as much
as other parts of the media industry. I guess do
companies need to invest more in audio? One use the podcast?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Perhaps?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Well, that's a leading question. The young Chelsea.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I'm sure you'd be the first to say we should
be investing more in audio. Ad luck, I often hear
radio described as the cockroach of the industry because it
survives everything. And I think radio, though has evolved, There's
no doubt about that. In terms of the podcast we're
on today, the rise of digital audio. But I do
think radio survives because it's portable. You can be doing
(14:04):
two or three different things at once and still engaging
in the content. I think, you know, it has a
really critical role, and I do think we have seen
investment in audio and I think that will continue across
the board. I think it's a vital part of the
media ecosystem and.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
We've saved the good news until last.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The government has announced some measures to help the industry out.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
The Government will progress the Fair Digital News Bargeting Bill
to support local media companies to earn revenue for the
news they produce. Secondly, we're going to deal with some
of the outdated legislation which restricts advertising on Sunday in
public holidays. Thirdly, we've been looking at the screen production
rebreak criteria and will tweak the eligibility criteria for the
(14:48):
rebate for local shows with a strong industry and cultural value.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Will they have much of an impact?
Speaker 6 (14:55):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
There's various aspects to it.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
First and foremost, there's some tactical and that is the
lifting of the ban on Sunday morning television advertising and
the ban on advertising across platforms on certain public holidays
such as Yester Sunday and Good Friday. And then we
have seen the likes of Shortened Street that will become
eligible for the screen production rebate, which is forty percent
(15:18):
rebate for a twenty million dollar odd show to produce.
Now that is significant for that particular title and for
TV and Z and for all the fans of Shortened Street.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
So that's important.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
The bigger piece is really the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill,
and that was a bill that Labour introduced when it
was in government. National initially under Melissa Lee as Broadcasting Minister,
didn't really have that much fondness for the bill, But
over time and as Paul Goldsmith has taken the ministerial reins,
he's met with a lot of people in the industry,
a lot of the CEOs, spoken to people on the
(15:49):
frontline and realizes that yes, something does need to be
introduced legislatively to even up the playing field. And there
I'm talking in particular what Facebook, Google and the other
tech giants are or aren't funding in terms of they
use a lot of news to drive their business models,
but they're not paying for that news content at the moment,
and so that bill is designed to introduce a level
(16:11):
playing field to get those companies to the negotiating table
to actually pay a fear a fee for the content
that they're.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Using, and so that will play out in the next
little while.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
I fully suspect that Labour will support the bill, given
the other ones who introduced it in the first place.
The act Party has invoked the agreed to disagree principles
of the coalition deal, so they're not part of it,
but certainly National New Zealand first, and I expect, as
I say, Labor to support it. And so we'll see
those changes coming in later in the year.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And Chane, it's been a whirlwind for the media industry
to say the least. Are things going to finally settle
down or can we expect more upheaval in future?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I think now we will see more upheaval. Whether we
see the scale of another news hub remains to be seen,
but I certainly for the foreseeable future anyway, and I'm
talking the next six to twelve months, I still think
it's going to be pretty tough out there, pretty challenging
for the media companies now. Once the economy does start
coming right again, I do think better days are ahead
(17:09):
and I think already we're seeing new models emerge about
you know, where people are devouring news and where media
companies can earn revenue, and I think you know, there
are It's a terrible cliche, but there are green shoots
starting to emerge and that that's encouraging. And I think
you only need to see the engagement on digital news
websites such as Indian Hero dot co and stuff and
others to realize that there's still a massive opportunity for
(17:32):
our media companies.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Thanks for joining us, Shane.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
That said, for this episode of The Front Page, you
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzed Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page
is produced by Ethan Seals with sound engineer Patty Fox.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcast, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
Yielda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New Zealand's
media industry is facing arguably the biggest shakeup in years.
Stuff is closing a newspaper and launching a six pm bulletin.
(00:27):
TV and Z sent execs on a thirty thousand dollars
LA jaunt amidst mass layoffs and a lengthy plan to
get back to profitability, and all this while we're readying
ourselves for a final goodbye to news Hub. The government
has finally come to the table with a plan to
help the industry.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
But is it enough.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Today on the front page, The Herald's media insider Shane
Curry checks in with us as the media industry continues
to go through the motions.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
The end of Newshub this week.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Shane, we've spoken to you a few times about this
so far this year. What have you heard from inside
their Flower Streets studios as they prepare to wrap things up.
Has everyone kind of accepted their.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Fate, basically been going through a grief process.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I guess, Chelsea, and the initial shock has subsided. A
lot of people are lining up new jobs. We know
around probably a good two dozen people are heading to
Stuff to be part of the new six pm bulletin. There,
I would say yes, resignation to the fact that it
is happening. It will still be a huge shock and
an impact for people on Friday. It will be a
(01:35):
very emotional day. And we are hearing lots of different
things that are going.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
On at the moment.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
For instance, there's a story that I'm working on at
the moment around cut price advertising that Warner Brothers Discovery
will launch as part of the new six pm bulletin.
They want to try and I guess, hoover up as
much of that advertising revenue that's left in the market
as possible. They pay Stuff a flat fee for the
new bulletin, so they know their fixed costs and so
they will be to maneuver their advertising revenue accordingly and
(02:03):
without being shackled to a hugely expensive newsroom.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I guess they can see a new business model emerging that.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Fixed rate cost. Will that help them in terms of longevity?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I think it well.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
I think when we say longevity, I mean we're talking
here about terrestrial television. And I had a big interview
with TV and z's chief executive Jody O'Donnell last week
TV and Z is planning for the option to turn
off terrestrial slash linear television by twenty thirty, whereas Warner
Brothers Discovery the owner of Three, have been a lot
more bullish around the timeframe. They've been talking two or
(02:34):
three years now. That doesn't mean the end of news
per se. It just means the platform changes and we
watch television through digital streaming platforms. Both broadcasters and indeed
the wider media industry have always been gearing up for
that switchover to digital streaming and digital listening. You know,
obviously the likes of podcasts have really taken off in
the last five years, and we're seeing that emerge now
(02:57):
in the traditional television sense.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Is that kind of like the converse we keep having
every five years or so about the dying newspapers and
everything moving to digital and it hasn't really quite happened.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
At all yet.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Well, the interesting thing for the digital publishing companies such
as The Herald owned by ms ME and stuff is
that they've probably had a longer period in order to
sort out their new digital business models. Whereas for television,
the revenue's kind of fallen off a cliff, really suddenly
and sharply in the last twelve months. And that's why
we've had these big announcements in the last three months
(03:29):
about the closure of news Hub, the cutbacks at TVNZ
which will continue into the next financial years. So the
digital publishing companies have had a bit of an advantage
in that sense, and of course we've launched new revenue
models around digital subscriptions and so forth.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
But you're right.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I mean, while people have been harping on for years
about the end of newspapers, the fact is that audiences
for news have never been stronger. The problem for the
news publishers and the media owners is trying to sort
out the business model to sustain newsrooms. And you know,
both ms ME and Stuff have gone into the digit
subscription business now and that revenue complements the traditional advertising revenue.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
And lastly, before I opened it up to any questions,
can I just acknowledge news Hub, who are covering this
press conference for a final time after thirty five years.
It is an organization that has played a big part
in the lives of many Kiwis and I just want
to thank the news Hub is both past and present
for their contributions and for all that you have given
over the better part of four decades.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
The Stuff produced six PM bulletin will launch this Saturday.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Of course, first off, do you think they've kept the
right talent?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
I think in Samantha Hayes, they have a great news reader.
She will face really difficult I think period where you know,
mourning the loss of a newsroom that she's been very
closely attached to for many years, and then suddenly having
to lift herself, you know, basically within forty eight hours
for the new era, and so that will be difficult,
not just for sam but for many of the people
(04:59):
who are across to Stuff. I think they'll do a
great job. I hear that they've got some really whiz
bang graphics and a visual virtual reality kind of studio
in the making that they'll be initially screening it or
producing it out of three's current studios and Flower Street,
but by October they actually have to move. Originally they
were looking at the existing newsroom in Ponsonby, but unfortunately
(05:21):
for them, the studio dimensions or the floor dimensions in
that building don't make for a great studio. So they're
now looking to lease as I understand it, a studio
in Boston Road, where previously three has produced Petty Gower
has issues and the Project.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Three News is promising a new vibrant look and feel
with opportunities for audience engagement. Now what do you think
that'll look like and does it seem like they are
targeting a different audience than news Hub.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, I think they will first and foremost try and
hold on to as many of the existing viewers as possible.
And on any given night, TV three will generate around
two undred thousand viewers for at six o'clock news, so
Stuff will quite rightly be looking to retain as many
of them as possible. And I think in the initial
weeks there'll be a huge curiosity factor about the new bulletin.
(06:11):
I think as time goes on, they really will need
to try and build a new audience, as you say,
and I think through their digital expertise, you know both
Stuff and ends in me having got lots of experience
and knowing all their digital audiences, just how they can
bring some of that thinking into a traditional bulletin.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And I think what we'll see potentially is.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Interaction around polls or quizzes or short or sharp perhaps
bulletins and basically a shake up of what we're traditionally
used to seeing at six o'clock.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Of course, but it's a huge ask on stuff.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
This is three hundred and sixty five bulletins a year,
over and above the usual journalistic output. It's a huge
tall order for that newsroom.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Speaking of stuff you've written, the companies Announstead will stop
publishing Sunday News after sixty one years. The closure comes
and met a raft of closes at Stuff. Community titles
similarly en zed me as proposing cutbacks of several of
its regional newsrooms. A lot of specialist magazines have also
closed down. Is there any hope for regional newsrooms and
(07:11):
niche publications or is this a sign of the times?
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Well, I think it's a combination of those things, and
I still am an optimist around regional news. I think
both end and Me and Stuff quite rightly point to
the fact, along with Allied Press in the South Island,
three privately owned media companies that invest the most in
regional New Zealand journalism as opposed to the two state
owned companies. So I think, first and foremost it's important
to state that there are still journalists in these regions,
(07:37):
and so I'm still an optimist in that sense. But
I also see what's happening here, and that is a
redirection of resources, I guess, to reflect audience demand. And
so for the likes of us that enzed me, our
newsrooms in Wellington and christ Church do need to be
beefed up to reflect the population of those two big cities.
And also you know the news that is emanating from
those regions.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Well, there has to be huge value in having people
on the ground though Hey just look at Hawk's Bay
and the floods for just one example.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Is it not translating to money in the pockets? Though?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
For media companies having so many people on the ground
in regions, well, I think.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Obviously, newsrooms are very expensive to run. You know, they're
as huge.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
If you'd look at news humbalone, it's more than twenty
million dollars a year, and so this is a huge investment.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
But of course there's a return on that as well.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
I mean, a lot of us get into the game
to make a difference to the world, and that's especially
so in lots of areas of New Zealand. And you're
right You only need to look at the experience of
Hawk's Bay last year and Gisbon and Wider and so
forth to know just how important it was to have
actually not just a digital news provider, but when the
power went out sometimes the only source of news would
(08:41):
have been through a battery powered transistor radio or a
print newspaper, and so we saw that in Hawk's Bay
last year. But certainly I think the business models are
changing rapidly as a whole, and then within different sectors
of the media industry as well, whether that's through regions
geographically or through different platforms such as audio or vision.
So I think at all times the media companies are
(09:02):
looking at the return, but also knowing the importance of
their op.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So I've read some executives at TV and Z maybe
in hot Water over a trip to LA Can you
tell me a bit more about this?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah, well, I did a big piece for the Weekend
Herald and for NZED Herald dot co dot NZ last
weekend on just the demise of news Hub. TV and
Z is also facing similar difficulties. Now, I'm of the
belief that as it's state owned, always has a backstop
in terms of being governorate. I just can't see it
being allowed to fail. I do see big changes ahead
for TV ands ED and indeed they've introduced a five
(09:45):
year digital strategy. It's an all of business transformation. It
means that they're taking their staff along with them, or
trying to at least to help them understand why it's
so important to be able to deliver news and content
digitally first.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But at the same.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Time as they were were proposing restructures and the closure
of shows such as fearg and Sunday and then being
taken to the employment court by the journalist union. At
the same time all of that was happening, three senior
leaders made a trip to the LA screenings to talk
to overseas studios producers, see what's coming in the pipeline
and obviously be on line for that. Now, by and large,
(10:22):
most people understand the need and importance of overseas business trips.
But the problem for TV INZ in this particular instance
is one of the executives posted social media images of
all three of them whining and dining at places like
Chateau Memont, socializing, having a great time, whereas back here
all hell was breaking loose, and so I guess that
was just as one person said to me, someone very
(10:45):
close to TV and Z said to me, it just
sort of reflects, possibly on this occasion, at least to
lack of EQ trying to understand just what's happening back
home and sort of you know, having this great time
in La not a great look.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What is interesting because there is a huge need for
those business trips, especially to scout new shows and get
your hands on them. I read somewhere that three got
into real hot water when they lost home and away
to TV and Z for instance, And people probably don't
realize the impact of those kind of decisions and trips, right.
And look, I'm sure if I saw what ENZ means
(11:19):
EXAC team spent on traveling to conferences and the like,
I would actually cry.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
But it is the actual cost of business, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
That's right, As I say, I don't think anyone begrudges
business trips, as you say, being there, whether that's frontline
journalism or as an exec you know, traveling to some
of these trade shows, it is really important. But portraying
yourself time and time place is also equally important. And
I think that's why I rubbed up so many people
the wrong way, and TV and Z themselves have said,
(11:48):
you know, the business trip was important, and you know
it was important for our future, but the social media
posts wit inappropriate, so that acknowledged that to.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Staff and you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Of course, TV and ZED has outlined a plan to
return to profit ability by twenty thirty and become a
digital first organization.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I saw some.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Suggestions that a twenty four hour news channel could even
be on the cards from TV in set.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Is that just a pipe dream at this stage?
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I saw that report, and I saw the commentary from
TV set. I suspect absolutely, they definitely want to launch
new channels digitally. I think a twenty four hour news
channel solely produced out of New Zealand that's a huge
pipe dream and very unlikely. I suspect what they might
look at you you might still have an hour or
two of local news, but then the rest of the
time it's a feed from ITV, BBC, ABC, whoever their
(12:36):
content partners are.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Do you think traditional broadcast TV should still have a
role to play in this country or do you think
the end is no?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Well, I don't think you can fight the tide. I
think you always have to follow your audience and how
they're watching news, devouring news, and as I say, news
is still as strong as ever in terms of audience engagement.
You know, there's big important issues that we as a
media industry need to adreas around trust and quality and
so forth. So the platforms will change. It's like we
were talking about earlier around the demise, so called demise
(13:07):
of newspapers.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Well, newspapers are still here.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
It's just that they complement a digital first mentality in
our two biggest digital publishing companies. And it's the same
for TV and Z. People will still want to watch
TV shows if they're high quality and so forth, but
they're watching them now through smart TVs or through their
laptops or mainly through their around phones. That applies to
high level production shows and other applies to news.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And what do you think radio isn't suffering as much
as other parts of the media industry. I guess do
companies need to invest more in audio? One use the podcast?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Perhaps?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Well, that's a leading question. The young Chelsea.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I'm sure you'd be the first to say we should
be investing more in audio. Ad luck, I often hear
radio described as the cockroach of the industry because it
survives everything. And I think radio, though has evolved, There's
no doubt about that. In terms of the podcast we're
on today, the rise of digital audio. But I do
think radio survives because it's portable. You can be doing
(14:04):
two or three different things at once and still engaging
in the content. I think, you know, it has a
really critical role, and I do think we have seen
investment in audio and I think that will continue across
the board. I think it's a vital part of the
media ecosystem and.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
We've saved the good news until last.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The government has announced some measures to help the industry out.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
The Government will progress the Fair Digital News Bargeting Bill
to support local media companies to earn revenue for the
news they produce. Secondly, we're going to deal with some
of the outdated legislation which restricts advertising on Sunday in
public holidays. Thirdly, we've been looking at the screen production
rebreak criteria and will tweak the eligibility criteria for the
(14:48):
rebate for local shows with a strong industry and cultural value.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Will they have much of an impact?
Speaker 6 (14:55):
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
There's various aspects to it.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
First and foremost, there's some tactical and that is the
lifting of the ban on Sunday morning television advertising and
the ban on advertising across platforms on certain public holidays
such as Yester Sunday and Good Friday. And then we
have seen the likes of Shortened Street that will become
eligible for the screen production rebate, which is forty percent
(15:18):
rebate for a twenty million dollar odd show to produce.
Now that is significant for that particular title and for
TV and Z and for all the fans of Shortened Street.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
So that's important.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
The bigger piece is really the Fair Digital News Bargaining Bill,
and that was a bill that Labour introduced when it
was in government. National initially under Melissa Lee as Broadcasting Minister,
didn't really have that much fondness for the bill, But
over time and as Paul Goldsmith has taken the ministerial reins,
he's met with a lot of people in the industry,
a lot of the CEOs, spoken to people on the
(15:49):
frontline and realizes that yes, something does need to be
introduced legislatively to even up the playing field. And there
I'm talking in particular what Facebook, Google and the other
tech giants are or aren't funding in terms of they
use a lot of news to drive their business models,
but they're not paying for that news content at the moment,
and so that bill is designed to introduce a level
(16:11):
playing field to get those companies to the negotiating table
to actually pay a fear a fee for the content
that they're.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Using, and so that will play out in the next
little while.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
I fully suspect that Labour will support the bill, given
the other ones who introduced it in the first place.
The act Party has invoked the agreed to disagree principles
of the coalition deal, so they're not part of it,
but certainly National New Zealand first, and I expect, as
I say, Labor to support it. And so we'll see
those changes coming in later in the year.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
And Chane, it's been a whirlwind for the media industry
to say the least. Are things going to finally settle
down or can we expect more upheaval in future?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I think now we will see more upheaval. Whether we
see the scale of another news hub remains to be seen,
but I certainly for the foreseeable future anyway, and I'm
talking the next six to twelve months, I still think
it's going to be pretty tough out there, pretty challenging
for the media companies now. Once the economy does start
coming right again, I do think better days are ahead
(17:09):
and I think already we're seeing new models emerge about
you know, where people are devouring news and where media
companies can earn revenue, and I think you know, there
are It's a terrible cliche, but there are green shoots
starting to emerge and that that's encouraging. And I think
you only need to see the engagement on digital news
websites such as Indian Hero dot co and stuff and
others to realize that there's still a massive opportunity for
(17:32):
our media companies.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Thanks for joining us, Shane.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
That said, for this episode of The Front Page, you
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzed Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page
is produced by Ethan Seals with sound engineer Patty Fox.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcast, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
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