December 4, 2024 • 23 mins
There are continued calls to tighten alcohol laws in New Zealand.
The growing trend of online deliveries has made advocates worried, with a study finding a large portion of alcohol deliveries bypassed ID checks.
Meanwhile, Auckland's new alcohol policy, starting December 9, will reduce sales hours and tighten regulations on new liquor licenses.
Across the ditch, New South Wales is looking to introduce new rules to regulate pre-mixed alcoholic beverages, especially those with candy-like flavours and colourful packaging.
So, should there be more restrictions around the sale and advertising of alcohol in New Zealand?
Today on The Front Page, we speak to Alcohol Healthwatch executive director, Andrew Galloway on where we should scale up restrictions first, and later to New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council executive director Virginia Nicholls for the industry’s reaction.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Kyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. There are
continued calls to tighten alcohol laws in New Zealand. The
growing trend of online deliveries has made advocates worried, with
(00:25):
a study finding a large portion of alcohol deliveries bypassed
ID checks. Meanwhile, Auckland's new alcohol policy starting December ninth,
will reduce sales hours and titan regulations on new liquor licenses,
and across the Ditch, New South Wales is looking to
introduce new rules to regulate pre mixed alcoholic beverages, especially
(00:50):
those with candy like flavors and colorful packaging. So should
there be more restrictions around the sale and advertising of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
In New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And Today on the Front Page we speak to the
New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council Executive director of Virginia Nichols
to talk us through the industry's reaction to the tightening
of laws around their products. But first we speak to
Alcohol Health Watch executive director Andrew Galloway.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
On where we should scale up restrictions.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
First, First off, Andrew, do you think laws around alcohol
are good enough in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
That's a really big question, and in short, my answer
would have to be known. I think we can look
back at previous reviews that have recommended phasing out of
alcohol sponsorship, marketing and advertising in twenty ten by the
Law Commission. That was further picked up by others. There
was a Ministerial forum in twenty fourteen that recommended the
(01:53):
same and again in the Government Inquiry into Mental Health
and Addictions in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which recommended that
they first two reviews should be picked up. So I
think around that issue marketing, sponsorship and advertising, no, and
more widely, we've just done a research project into remote
and rapid delivery of alcohol, and again you'd have to
say that our research highlights the fact that we probably
(02:16):
don't have good enough regulation for that aspect.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Tell me about that research undertaken by Alcohol Health Watch
into the delivery of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
What did you find.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, first of all, I mean there was a bit
of interest and it popped up in the media twenty
eighteen twenty twenty, but it really remote and rapid delivery
grew rapidly when we had COVID and for obvious reasons,
and rapid or remote delivery became quite popular for a
range of commodities, but alcohol was one and it grew
(02:45):
the amount of people using that facility grew, So we
had a concern at Alcohol Health Watch. One of my
team members got wine delivered and it was just left
on a doorstep, and really, her thought, is an alcohol
policy researcher, was, I wonder how I spread that is.
So we did a test and we tested sixteen companies,
from big supermarkets to rapid delivery tech based companies to
(03:08):
just general retailers, and the results are really alarming. Seventy
three percent of alcohol orders did not request age verification
on delivery. All you have to do in most cases
is tick two boxes and that satisfies the law that
you've checked age. But as we know, if you're a
young person under eighteen, you're probably not going to check
(03:30):
the box if you want alcohol to say that you're
under eighteen. So it's not a full brief system by
any stretch. Forty nine percent of alcohol orders were left
unattended to contact us at the door. And while contactless
deliveries might have been okay during COVID, for obvious reasons.
We don't think alcohol, being New Zealand's most harmful drugs,
should be left at the door of people's homes. We've
(03:51):
got research from New Zealand which shows remote delivery extends
a drinking occasion and that really stands to common sense.
If you're if you're polished off a few and you
can't drive to the bottle store, it would give you
the opportunity to get more. And their research backs that
are all one hundred percent of companies have wonderful policies
that say this is what we're going to do. Eighty
(04:11):
seven point five percent of the time they broke their
own restricted items policy. So it really did show when
you have a regulatory system with no checks and balances,
there is the potential for harm. And that's what we're
concerned about. We're not saying it's not a service that
shouldn't be available. I think we need to look across
the ditch in Australia where you might have to scan
(04:32):
your ID and have it verified before it's delivered. You
could have a period of time where there's a standdown
so that we're not getting that extension of a drinking
occasion leading to harm. So there's some simple things we
can do. We're one of the few countries I think
there were seventy one out of seventy three countries we
looked at in the study that had rules around us,
and we're certainly an outlier in alterio on New Zealand.
(04:54):
So that is another reason why we think it's time
to look at the laws around alcohol.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
We'll speaking of Australia, what do you make of the
idea of restricting pre mixed alcoholic drinks? In New South
Wales they're looking at new guidelines that will regulate alcoholic
versions of soft drinks, for example, and ready to drink beverages, specifically,
wanting to crack down on confectionery flavored drinks or colorful designs.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Is that something that we should look at here.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I think we should have the ability and I looked
jealously at Australia and some of their ability to make
regulations in state governments and this is New South Wales.
The publicity on this has been really interesting. I don't
think it struck a chord in the right way, but
many people going, oh, now we've got the Health Agency
kind of tasting products to make sure they're okay. For us,
(05:42):
but again in Australia, alcohol very similar to New Zealand
is a big problem. What they found is they've had
a product called hard Solo, which replicates a soft drink.
We're not saying that these products can't exist, but it
certainly had an appeal to minus and they considered the
formal regulatory actions and to prohibit the class of liquor products.
(06:02):
And you know in New South Wales, the liquor and
gaming have said there's a comment thary that highly popular
softwarets among young people and the vulnerability of miners of
alcohol related injuries and diseases really does give them cause
to think about it. We probably do need in New
Zealand some kind of check on a product before it
goes to market. So unfortunately we end up being a
(06:24):
bit of a dumping ground, given how close we are
to Australia, and given many of those companies of Global
Bilson's dumped a whole lot of product that were basically
ruled not appropriate in Australia, and those are great bubblegum
and rainbow Sherbert flavored kind of vodka premixes that came
on the shelf here and it got picked up by
a community agency called Communities Against Alcohol. They made a
(06:47):
complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority. The Advertising Standards Authority
chair noted that great Bubblegum and Rainbow Sherbert and the
Facebook advertisements that happened about them, but there's no check
on the way and before they put on the shelf,
you know, they make reasonable decisions, but the system itself
relies on complaints, so I've no one actually sees it
(07:07):
that does something about it. These products can be on
the market for some time.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So we did a very simple study. What we did
is that we record one hundred and twenty five university students.
We just asked them to scroll their goal on their
favorite social medias for thirty minutes and text screenshots for
whatever Alco advertisement they've seen and then send.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It back to us.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
So the result is very shotkick because the majority of
these young people they see at least one advertisement in
the thirty minutes period and on actually on average they
see one advertisement every two three minutes. This is very
Shotkicks result.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Auckland Council has adopted its local alcohol policy for the city,
coming into effect on December nine. It'll mean bottle shops
and supermarkets across the region won't be able to sell
alcohol after nine pm. At the moment you can buy
it up to eleven pm. What difference do you think
those couple of hours will make.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
The evidence tells us that the more available alcohol is,
the more harm that's caused. And when we had so
I'm old enough to remember, and I worked in Oakland
Council when we had twenty four our licensing and that
was a disaster, really having people out drinking when people
are coming to work or trying to go to work,
or people are opening businesses and people are still out
(08:27):
enjoying the late night economy that has kept going into
the next day was not a good mix of uses
of a CBD. So I'm pleased we don't have twenty
four our licensing. But when that changed, and that changed
as a result of the sale and supply of alcoholic
twenty twelve, which in post national maximum house, there was
a significant impact on alcohol harm. So even just that
(08:48):
reduction from twenty four hours to four am, which is
still pretty late for un licenses, that saw a significant
reduction in crime and a significant reduction in alcohol related presentations.
That very same three of research tells us that we
will see a reduction in things like crime alcohol related
presentations to emergency departments. From the modest change from eleven
(09:09):
pm to nine pm for retail sale in Auckland. One
thing we are concerned about is the remote delivery may
office gate or limit some of those benefits. The imputus
for government to do something around remote sales is probably
also compounded by the fact that there might be a
loophole well.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The annual Ministry of Health, a New Zealand Health survey
released last month showed hazardous drinking or harmful alcohol consumption
among adults has actually declined by four point seven percentage
points in the past four years to sixteen point six percent.
Do you find that there is a decrease in hazardus
drinking among adults?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I agree, I mean, I think those statistics are great
and it's not to say we don't have a problem anymore,
but it's certainly hitting in the right direction. Chelsea, and
I think, not wanting to dismiss the celebration, if you like,
we could have on that change in behavior. If you
look at those rates of sixteen point six percent of
(10:08):
people reporting having consumed alcohol hazardously in the last year,
that's actually an increase, So it's about seven hundred and
twenty thousand adults as opposed to six hundred and seventy
thousand last year. So while we are seeing that rate
come down, and it has come down significantly over that
five year period, it was a small rise to seven
(10:29):
hundred and twenty thousand from sixty seventy. So I think
it's kind of plateau and of the view that we
still need to implement some further policy. So we're talking
about hazardous drinking and harm can occur even at moderate levels.
We're talking about cancer, We're talking about disease that can
occur at really low level. So I think the more
(10:50):
we manage to cut down not only consumption of alcohol
itself but hazardous drinking, the more we all stand to benefit.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's difficult, isn't it, because it's a fine line between
targeting problem drinkers but also not inconveniencing those who like
a temple every now and then.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Right, that could be well a line that you hear
a lot, and it's a line you hear a lot
from the alcohol industry. When we look at minimum Munit price,
which has been imposed in Scotland very successfully and let's
be honest. They've imposed minimum munit price because Scotland can't
put up excise taxes. They're part of the Westminster system,
(11:26):
so they don't have the sovereignty or the ability to
impose excise tax but they did put in a minimum
munit price. Minim immunit price lifts the price only of
the really cheapest alcohol, and that's the alcohol we know
appeals most to young people and it appeals most to
dependent drinkers. So they've seen a thirteen percent reduction in
alcohol related death. So I think it's often a line
(11:48):
you hear from alcohol industry that we don't want to
impose more restrictions on the responsible drinkers. But actually, if
you apply alcohol policy, well, you can limit the most
harmful drinking while really not acting on people who are
enjoying it moderately, loately and with less or no harm.
And the other thing I think that is worth noting
is there's really high public support. I think the public
(12:10):
are quite aware of the issue that is alcohol, and
there's public support for things like banning alcohol sponsorship at
sporting events or making sure that the alcohol industry isn't
involved in developing government policies. Or increasing the price. To
be honest, there's reasonable public support on increasing price, so
I think there's public support for it. There's a wealth
(12:31):
of evidence in terms of the health burden and the
social and economic cost of alcohol. I think we really
do have a solution to reducing the burden on both
police emergency services, hospital time and also impacting positively health
and well being of people in Alda.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Thanks for joining us, Andrew and Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Great to be here again.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
For the industry side of this argument, we're joined now
on the front.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Page by New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council Executive Director Virginia Nichols. Virginia,
how does the alcohol and beverages industry respond to those
calls for tighter regulations.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Yeah, I think the alcohol industry believes the current regulations,
guided by the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act for
most regions are adequate to manage harm while allowing responsible
businesses really to operate. I think that's the important thing there.
There's a whole lot of other areas that the industry
doesn't just have the actual legislation itself. Really, it's got
(13:45):
many other areas as well. For instance, the Advertising Standards
Authority has some pretty good. It's a voluntary code throughout
the code for advertising promotion of alcohol that's been recently
updated and that covers content and placement of all marketing.
And the code also ensures that the content of advertising
doesn't have strong or evident appeal to minors or encourage
(14:08):
a responsible consumption of alcohol, and it's all about timing
and placement, not to use anyone who appears to be
under twenty five years of age. And we've also got
a voluntary industry code for the ready to drink beverages
which is RTDs, again ensuring that those below the legal
purchasing age don't see those products. So there is a
(14:31):
lot of legislation that's actually legislation and regulation that's out there.
It's a highly regulated industry.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Have you seen those guidelines being looked at in New
South Wales?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
They could see restrictions there around those pre mixed RTD drinks.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Could something like that happen here?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Well, it is happening here, So it's really different. The
New Zealand market's very different to the Australian market. As
I say, we're very well regulated both with our legislation
under A Section two thirty seven rarely. You can't a
person commits an offense if in the course of carrying
on a business that person, for instance, promotes or advertises
alcohol in a manner aimed at or that has or
(15:10):
is likely to have special appeal to minors, which is
a situation in Australia. That plus, any new product that's
launched in New Zealand as well has to go through
a pre vetting system and that can be done with
the Association of New Zealand Advertisers. What the Advertising Standards
Authority then does if there is something that's occurring that
is not appropriate with advertising, someone can complain to the
(15:32):
Advertising Standards Authority. There aren't a lot of complaints for alcohol.
If there are, most of them are actually agreed before
they have to go to the particular committee. So again,
and as to say, there is a voluntary industry code
for RTGs and cans. So the legislation in New Zealand
is actually very strong in this regard.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
In Auckland, from December ninth, you won't be able to
buy alcohol from a bottle shop or a supermarket after
nine at the moment it's eleven.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Will that couple of hours make any kind of difference.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Do you think, Oh, look, I don't think so at all. Really,
so this is the new lap, the Auckland lap, I
think I think, as I say, it needs to be
balanced really with an understanding about how we're drinking, and
we've already spoken about. I really think that there it
has to be evidence based and is there evidence for instance,
to if you like close a bottle store or a supermarket,
(16:28):
you know, selling alcohol at nine? Is there something which
tells us this suddenly becomes a dangerous hour And there
actually is no evidence which actually says that. I think
all it's going to do is inconvenience consumers. Really, I
think the push really for tougher restrictions such as reducing
the number of alcohol stores and limiting operating ours, needs
(16:48):
to be based on evidence that these measures will make
a material difference in reducing harm. We don't see the
clear evidence. We haven't seen any of it. For instance,
a recent police study actually showed that majority of our
CCOL purchases are made around six pm, not during the
later hours that have been targeted. I mean we would
support in more sort of nuanced approach really that considers
(17:08):
all stakeholders, retailers, consumers, police, counsels and social agencies really
working together. I think we have to consider as well. Really,
I mean retailers as well are operating in a highly
regulated environment. They are adding more and adding more restrictions
without evidence, can place unnecessary strain on businesses, particularly in
what's really challenging sort of economic conditions, and many retailers
(17:32):
support that. Sales between nine and ten frints, it's a
minimal and closing stores early may inconvenience and I'm sure
it will inconvenience responsible drinkers such as shift workers, without
addressing hazardous consumption. Really, I think the focus should be
on quality of operators and ensuring they're well supported by
robust policy and strong community engagement, rather than reducing still
(17:54):
numbers or hours.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
What do you make of the rise of delivery services
like the likes of Uber Eats selling alcohol?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Should there be some more safeguards around that?
Speaker 5 (18:07):
So? I think first up, there there is an increase
in online delivery. I think some of that's occurred, particularly
since COVID. First of all, I think I should mention
that the survey that Alcohol Health Watch has done is
only just gone up in the journal today. We haven't
been able to actually review the document, but at the
moment the law does not require ID checks before you
(18:28):
deliver at the house. However, we do support a strengthening
in this area, and in principle our retailers, so our
retailers are both supermarkets and the bottled stores. They believe
the same licensing requirements that apply to alcohol sale and
supply in stores should apply to online purchases and delivery.
But it's also still going to be important too just
(18:49):
to get more feedback from the industry, review the survey,
consider a way forward which includes feedback from retailers, consumers,
police counsels and social agencies.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, because in Australia they've kind of gotten around that
by doing things like scanning IDs when they're delivered.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Right, so I think we need to really have a
look at this area and work out the appropriate processes
that we need to put in place to strengthen really
this area. But at the moment, there is no requirement
to have an ID check when you get to the house.
Most responsible retailers have a system, if you like, of
(19:29):
when the order is placed understanding and knowing that this
person is above eighteen. But I think when a person
gets to the house. We really need to look at
the processes that occur then.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Twenty years ago, drinking was cool. Now the cool kids
are those who recognize the harm.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
The change really has come from young people themselves.
Speaker 6 (19:49):
It seems young people are more knowledgeable about the risks
of alcohol abuse and risks their ambition.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
Young people seemed pretty much enjoying life day to day,
whereas today's young people were more peture focused.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Those who are drinking are still often indulging in the
time hon it way.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
Bin drinking is still the typical drinking style and often
young people who are drinking heavily in this age group
have got other issues going on.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
The New Zealand Health Survey shows that Kiwis are taking
part in hazardous drinking less now, doesn't it?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
It absolutely does. It shows really that there's a cultural
shift in the way Kiwis are drinking and has it
a drinking of harmful Alcohol consumption amongst adults was similar
to last year and it's declined four point seven percentage
points in the last four years, which is great to
sixteen point six percent and the largest decrease and has
it iss drinking over the past five years was among
(20:49):
young New Zealanders the eighteen to twenty fours. I mean
that's declined by thirteen point two percentage points, which was
at thirty five point eight percent and is now at
twenty two point six percent. It's still higher than what
we want, but the trending is really exactly where we
want it. The stats New Zealand alcohol consumption per capita
has also declined by twenty nine percent since nineteen eighty six.
(21:12):
And as I say, and as I mentioned, when we
compare our drinking with other countries in the OECD, Keywis
are drinking less than the OECD average, which includes less
than the US, UK, Australia, Germany, France and Ireland.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
When it comes to the alcohol industry, do you think
there are misconceptions I suppose around the alcohol industry being
unwilling to change.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
Perhaps I think that there are some of those misconceptions
out there, but there's also an understanding by consumers that
the industry has really changed over time. We are drinking differently.
Why are we drinking differently? Yes, the industry is providing
new and interesting products such as no and low alcohol products,
but we as a society as well have actually changed
(21:57):
our requirements of what we want, what's acceptable to drink,
how we should be drinking, the support we put around
each other. I think there can be some misconceptions about
the industry, but the industry is very interested in how
we can reduce harmful drinkers. Nobody in the industry wants
harmful drinkers.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Would the industry be open to something like say, minimum
unit pricing.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Overseas that for instance in Australia At the moment in
the Northern Territory they are actually saying that actually hasn't
worked and they're looking at other options. In Scotland, although
they've re put it in so this means that we
will all pay and that means eighty four percent of
responsible drinkers will pay more, and the thought that this
(22:41):
may reduce hazard as drinkers. The research is, and the
research out of Scotland is this has not worked. What
happens is that responsible drinkers drink less and has it
a drinkers sadly still continue to consume the alcohol that
they want to need. Sadly.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Thanks for joining us Virginia great.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(23:30):
tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
Kyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. There are
continued calls to tighten alcohol laws in New Zealand. The
growing trend of online deliveries has made advocates worried, with
(00:25):
a study finding a large portion of alcohol deliveries bypassed
ID checks. Meanwhile, Auckland's new alcohol policy starting December ninth,
will reduce sales hours and titan regulations on new liquor licenses,
and across the Ditch, New South Wales is looking to
introduce new rules to regulate pre mixed alcoholic beverages, especially
(00:50):
those with candy like flavors and colorful packaging. So should
there be more restrictions around the sale and advertising of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
In New Zealand?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And Today on the Front Page we speak to the
New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council Executive director of Virginia Nichols
to talk us through the industry's reaction to the tightening
of laws around their products. But first we speak to
Alcohol Health Watch executive director Andrew Galloway.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
On where we should scale up restrictions.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
First, First off, Andrew, do you think laws around alcohol
are good enough in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
That's a really big question, and in short, my answer
would have to be known. I think we can look
back at previous reviews that have recommended phasing out of
alcohol sponsorship, marketing and advertising in twenty ten by the
Law Commission. That was further picked up by others. There
was a Ministerial forum in twenty fourteen that recommended the
(01:53):
same and again in the Government Inquiry into Mental Health
and Addictions in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, which recommended that
they first two reviews should be picked up. So I
think around that issue marketing, sponsorship and advertising, no, and
more widely, we've just done a research project into remote
and rapid delivery of alcohol, and again you'd have to
say that our research highlights the fact that we probably
(02:16):
don't have good enough regulation for that aspect.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Tell me about that research undertaken by Alcohol Health Watch
into the delivery of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
What did you find.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, first of all, I mean there was a bit
of interest and it popped up in the media twenty
eighteen twenty twenty, but it really remote and rapid delivery
grew rapidly when we had COVID and for obvious reasons,
and rapid or remote delivery became quite popular for a
range of commodities, but alcohol was one and it grew
(02:45):
the amount of people using that facility grew, So we
had a concern at Alcohol Health Watch. One of my
team members got wine delivered and it was just left
on a doorstep, and really, her thought, is an alcohol
policy researcher, was, I wonder how I spread that is.
So we did a test and we tested sixteen companies,
from big supermarkets to rapid delivery tech based companies to
(03:08):
just general retailers, and the results are really alarming. Seventy
three percent of alcohol orders did not request age verification
on delivery. All you have to do in most cases
is tick two boxes and that satisfies the law that
you've checked age. But as we know, if you're a
young person under eighteen, you're probably not going to check
(03:30):
the box if you want alcohol to say that you're
under eighteen. So it's not a full brief system by
any stretch. Forty nine percent of alcohol orders were left
unattended to contact us at the door. And while contactless
deliveries might have been okay during COVID, for obvious reasons.
We don't think alcohol, being New Zealand's most harmful drugs,
should be left at the door of people's homes. We've
(03:51):
got research from New Zealand which shows remote delivery extends
a drinking occasion and that really stands to common sense.
If you're if you're polished off a few and you
can't drive to the bottle store, it would give you
the opportunity to get more. And their research backs that
are all one hundred percent of companies have wonderful policies
that say this is what we're going to do. Eighty
(04:11):
seven point five percent of the time they broke their
own restricted items policy. So it really did show when
you have a regulatory system with no checks and balances,
there is the potential for harm. And that's what we're
concerned about. We're not saying it's not a service that
shouldn't be available. I think we need to look across
the ditch in Australia where you might have to scan
(04:32):
your ID and have it verified before it's delivered. You
could have a period of time where there's a standdown
so that we're not getting that extension of a drinking
occasion leading to harm. So there's some simple things we
can do. We're one of the few countries I think
there were seventy one out of seventy three countries we
looked at in the study that had rules around us,
and we're certainly an outlier in alterio on New Zealand.
(04:54):
So that is another reason why we think it's time
to look at the laws around alcohol.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
We'll speaking of Australia, what do you make of the
idea of restricting pre mixed alcoholic drinks? In New South
Wales they're looking at new guidelines that will regulate alcoholic
versions of soft drinks, for example, and ready to drink beverages, specifically,
wanting to crack down on confectionery flavored drinks or colorful designs.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Is that something that we should look at here.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I think we should have the ability and I looked
jealously at Australia and some of their ability to make
regulations in state governments and this is New South Wales.
The publicity on this has been really interesting. I don't
think it struck a chord in the right way, but
many people going, oh, now we've got the Health Agency
kind of tasting products to make sure they're okay. For us,
(05:42):
but again in Australia, alcohol very similar to New Zealand
is a big problem. What they found is they've had
a product called hard Solo, which replicates a soft drink.
We're not saying that these products can't exist, but it
certainly had an appeal to minus and they considered the
formal regulatory actions and to prohibit the class of liquor products.
(06:02):
And you know in New South Wales, the liquor and
gaming have said there's a comment thary that highly popular
softwarets among young people and the vulnerability of miners of
alcohol related injuries and diseases really does give them cause
to think about it. We probably do need in New
Zealand some kind of check on a product before it
goes to market. So unfortunately we end up being a
(06:24):
bit of a dumping ground, given how close we are
to Australia, and given many of those companies of Global
Bilson's dumped a whole lot of product that were basically
ruled not appropriate in Australia, and those are great bubblegum
and rainbow Sherbert flavored kind of vodka premixes that came
on the shelf here and it got picked up by
a community agency called Communities Against Alcohol. They made a
(06:47):
complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority. The Advertising Standards Authority
chair noted that great Bubblegum and Rainbow Sherbert and the
Facebook advertisements that happened about them, but there's no check
on the way and before they put on the shelf,
you know, they make reasonable decisions, but the system itself
relies on complaints, so I've no one actually sees it
(07:07):
that does something about it. These products can be on
the market for some time.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
So we did a very simple study. What we did
is that we record one hundred and twenty five university students.
We just asked them to scroll their goal on their
favorite social medias for thirty minutes and text screenshots for
whatever Alco advertisement they've seen and then send.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It back to us.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
So the result is very shotkick because the majority of
these young people they see at least one advertisement in
the thirty minutes period and on actually on average they
see one advertisement every two three minutes. This is very
Shotkicks result.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Auckland Council has adopted its local alcohol policy for the city,
coming into effect on December nine. It'll mean bottle shops
and supermarkets across the region won't be able to sell
alcohol after nine pm. At the moment you can buy
it up to eleven pm. What difference do you think
those couple of hours will make.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
The evidence tells us that the more available alcohol is,
the more harm that's caused. And when we had so
I'm old enough to remember, and I worked in Oakland
Council when we had twenty four our licensing and that
was a disaster, really having people out drinking when people
are coming to work or trying to go to work,
or people are opening businesses and people are still out
(08:27):
enjoying the late night economy that has kept going into
the next day was not a good mix of uses
of a CBD. So I'm pleased we don't have twenty
four our licensing. But when that changed, and that changed
as a result of the sale and supply of alcoholic
twenty twelve, which in post national maximum house, there was
a significant impact on alcohol harm. So even just that
(08:48):
reduction from twenty four hours to four am, which is
still pretty late for un licenses, that saw a significant
reduction in crime and a significant reduction in alcohol related presentations.
That very same three of research tells us that we
will see a reduction in things like crime alcohol related
presentations to emergency departments. From the modest change from eleven
(09:09):
pm to nine pm for retail sale in Auckland. One
thing we are concerned about is the remote delivery may
office gate or limit some of those benefits. The imputus
for government to do something around remote sales is probably
also compounded by the fact that there might be a
loophole well.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The annual Ministry of Health, a New Zealand Health survey
released last month showed hazardous drinking or harmful alcohol consumption
among adults has actually declined by four point seven percentage
points in the past four years to sixteen point six percent.
Do you find that there is a decrease in hazardus
drinking among adults?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I agree, I mean, I think those statistics are great
and it's not to say we don't have a problem anymore,
but it's certainly hitting in the right direction. Chelsea, and
I think, not wanting to dismiss the celebration, if you like,
we could have on that change in behavior. If you
look at those rates of sixteen point six percent of
(10:08):
people reporting having consumed alcohol hazardously in the last year,
that's actually an increase, So it's about seven hundred and
twenty thousand adults as opposed to six hundred and seventy
thousand last year. So while we are seeing that rate
come down, and it has come down significantly over that
five year period, it was a small rise to seven
(10:29):
hundred and twenty thousand from sixty seventy. So I think
it's kind of plateau and of the view that we
still need to implement some further policy. So we're talking
about hazardous drinking and harm can occur even at moderate levels.
We're talking about cancer, We're talking about disease that can
occur at really low level. So I think the more
(10:50):
we manage to cut down not only consumption of alcohol
itself but hazardous drinking, the more we all stand to benefit.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's difficult, isn't it, because it's a fine line between
targeting problem drinkers but also not inconveniencing those who like
a temple every now and then.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Right, that could be well a line that you hear
a lot, and it's a line you hear a lot
from the alcohol industry. When we look at minimum Munit price,
which has been imposed in Scotland very successfully and let's
be honest. They've imposed minimum munit price because Scotland can't
put up excise taxes. They're part of the Westminster system,
(11:26):
so they don't have the sovereignty or the ability to
impose excise tax but they did put in a minimum
munit price. Minim immunit price lifts the price only of
the really cheapest alcohol, and that's the alcohol we know
appeals most to young people and it appeals most to
dependent drinkers. So they've seen a thirteen percent reduction in
alcohol related death. So I think it's often a line
(11:48):
you hear from alcohol industry that we don't want to
impose more restrictions on the responsible drinkers. But actually, if
you apply alcohol policy, well, you can limit the most
harmful drinking while really not acting on people who are
enjoying it moderately, loately and with less or no harm.
And the other thing I think that is worth noting
is there's really high public support. I think the public
(12:10):
are quite aware of the issue that is alcohol, and
there's public support for things like banning alcohol sponsorship at
sporting events or making sure that the alcohol industry isn't
involved in developing government policies. Or increasing the price. To
be honest, there's reasonable public support on increasing price, so
I think there's public support for it. There's a wealth
(12:31):
of evidence in terms of the health burden and the
social and economic cost of alcohol. I think we really
do have a solution to reducing the burden on both
police emergency services, hospital time and also impacting positively health
and well being of people in Alda.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Thanks for joining us, Andrew and Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Great to be here again.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
For the industry side of this argument, we're joined now
on the front.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Page by New Zealand Alcohol Beverages Council Executive Director Virginia Nichols. Virginia,
how does the alcohol and beverages industry respond to those
calls for tighter regulations.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Yeah, I think the alcohol industry believes the current regulations,
guided by the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act for
most regions are adequate to manage harm while allowing responsible
businesses really to operate. I think that's the important thing there.
There's a whole lot of other areas that the industry
doesn't just have the actual legislation itself. Really, it's got
(13:45):
many other areas as well. For instance, the Advertising Standards
Authority has some pretty good. It's a voluntary code throughout
the code for advertising promotion of alcohol that's been recently
updated and that covers content and placement of all marketing.
And the code also ensures that the content of advertising
doesn't have strong or evident appeal to minors or encourage
(14:08):
a responsible consumption of alcohol, and it's all about timing
and placement, not to use anyone who appears to be
under twenty five years of age. And we've also got
a voluntary industry code for the ready to drink beverages
which is RTDs, again ensuring that those below the legal
purchasing age don't see those products. So there is a
(14:31):
lot of legislation that's actually legislation and regulation that's out there.
It's a highly regulated industry.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Have you seen those guidelines being looked at in New
South Wales?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
They could see restrictions there around those pre mixed RTD drinks.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Could something like that happen here?
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Well, it is happening here, So it's really different. The
New Zealand market's very different to the Australian market. As
I say, we're very well regulated both with our legislation
under A Section two thirty seven rarely. You can't a
person commits an offense if in the course of carrying
on a business that person, for instance, promotes or advertises
alcohol in a manner aimed at or that has or
(15:10):
is likely to have special appeal to minors, which is
a situation in Australia. That plus, any new product that's
launched in New Zealand as well has to go through
a pre vetting system and that can be done with
the Association of New Zealand Advertisers. What the Advertising Standards
Authority then does if there is something that's occurring that
is not appropriate with advertising, someone can complain to the
(15:32):
Advertising Standards Authority. There aren't a lot of complaints for alcohol.
If there are, most of them are actually agreed before
they have to go to the particular committee. So again,
and as to say, there is a voluntary industry code
for RTGs and cans. So the legislation in New Zealand
is actually very strong in this regard.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
In Auckland, from December ninth, you won't be able to
buy alcohol from a bottle shop or a supermarket after
nine at the moment it's eleven.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Will that couple of hours make any kind of difference.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Do you think, Oh, look, I don't think so at all. Really,
so this is the new lap, the Auckland lap, I
think I think, as I say, it needs to be
balanced really with an understanding about how we're drinking, and
we've already spoken about. I really think that there it
has to be evidence based and is there evidence for instance,
to if you like close a bottle store or a supermarket,
(16:28):
you know, selling alcohol at nine? Is there something which
tells us this suddenly becomes a dangerous hour And there
actually is no evidence which actually says that. I think
all it's going to do is inconvenience consumers. Really, I
think the push really for tougher restrictions such as reducing
the number of alcohol stores and limiting operating ours, needs
(16:48):
to be based on evidence that these measures will make
a material difference in reducing harm. We don't see the
clear evidence. We haven't seen any of it. For instance,
a recent police study actually showed that majority of our
CCOL purchases are made around six pm, not during the
later hours that have been targeted. I mean we would
support in more sort of nuanced approach really that considers
(17:08):
all stakeholders, retailers, consumers, police, counsels and social agencies really
working together. I think we have to consider as well. Really,
I mean retailers as well are operating in a highly
regulated environment. They are adding more and adding more restrictions
without evidence, can place unnecessary strain on businesses, particularly in
what's really challenging sort of economic conditions, and many retailers
(17:32):
support that. Sales between nine and ten frints, it's a
minimal and closing stores early may inconvenience and I'm sure
it will inconvenience responsible drinkers such as shift workers, without
addressing hazardous consumption. Really, I think the focus should be
on quality of operators and ensuring they're well supported by
robust policy and strong community engagement, rather than reducing still
(17:54):
numbers or hours.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
What do you make of the rise of delivery services
like the likes of Uber Eats selling alcohol?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Should there be some more safeguards around that?
Speaker 5 (18:07):
So? I think first up, there there is an increase
in online delivery. I think some of that's occurred, particularly
since COVID. First of all, I think I should mention
that the survey that Alcohol Health Watch has done is
only just gone up in the journal today. We haven't
been able to actually review the document, but at the
moment the law does not require ID checks before you
(18:28):
deliver at the house. However, we do support a strengthening
in this area, and in principle our retailers, so our
retailers are both supermarkets and the bottled stores. They believe
the same licensing requirements that apply to alcohol sale and
supply in stores should apply to online purchases and delivery.
But it's also still going to be important too just
(18:49):
to get more feedback from the industry, review the survey,
consider a way forward which includes feedback from retailers, consumers,
police counsels and social agencies.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, because in Australia they've kind of gotten around that
by doing things like scanning IDs when they're delivered.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Right, so I think we need to really have a
look at this area and work out the appropriate processes
that we need to put in place to strengthen really
this area. But at the moment, there is no requirement
to have an ID check when you get to the house.
Most responsible retailers have a system, if you like, of
(19:29):
when the order is placed understanding and knowing that this
person is above eighteen. But I think when a person
gets to the house. We really need to look at
the processes that occur then.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Twenty years ago, drinking was cool. Now the cool kids
are those who recognize the harm.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
The change really has come from young people themselves.
Speaker 6 (19:49):
It seems young people are more knowledgeable about the risks
of alcohol abuse and risks their ambition.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
Young people seemed pretty much enjoying life day to day,
whereas today's young people were more peture focused.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
Those who are drinking are still often indulging in the
time hon it way.
Speaker 7 (20:07):
Bin drinking is still the typical drinking style and often
young people who are drinking heavily in this age group
have got other issues going on.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
The New Zealand Health Survey shows that Kiwis are taking
part in hazardous drinking less now, doesn't it?
Speaker 5 (20:27):
It absolutely does. It shows really that there's a cultural
shift in the way Kiwis are drinking and has it
a drinking of harmful Alcohol consumption amongst adults was similar
to last year and it's declined four point seven percentage
points in the last four years, which is great to
sixteen point six percent and the largest decrease and has
it iss drinking over the past five years was among
(20:49):
young New Zealanders the eighteen to twenty fours. I mean
that's declined by thirteen point two percentage points, which was
at thirty five point eight percent and is now at
twenty two point six percent. It's still higher than what
we want, but the trending is really exactly where we
want it. The stats New Zealand alcohol consumption per capita
has also declined by twenty nine percent since nineteen eighty six.
(21:12):
And as I say, and as I mentioned, when we
compare our drinking with other countries in the OECD, Keywis
are drinking less than the OECD average, which includes less
than the US, UK, Australia, Germany, France and Ireland.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
When it comes to the alcohol industry, do you think
there are misconceptions I suppose around the alcohol industry being
unwilling to change.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
Perhaps I think that there are some of those misconceptions
out there, but there's also an understanding by consumers that
the industry has really changed over time. We are drinking differently.
Why are we drinking differently? Yes, the industry is providing
new and interesting products such as no and low alcohol products,
but we as a society as well have actually changed
(21:57):
our requirements of what we want, what's acceptable to drink,
how we should be drinking, the support we put around
each other. I think there can be some misconceptions about
the industry, but the industry is very interested in how
we can reduce harmful drinkers. Nobody in the industry wants
harmful drinkers.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Would the industry be open to something like say, minimum
unit pricing.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
Overseas that for instance in Australia At the moment in
the Northern Territory they are actually saying that actually hasn't
worked and they're looking at other options. In Scotland, although
they've re put it in so this means that we
will all pay and that means eighty four percent of
responsible drinkers will pay more, and the thought that this
(22:41):
may reduce hazard as drinkers. The research is, and the
research out of Scotland is this has not worked. What
happens is that responsible drinkers drink less and has it
a drinkers sadly still continue to consume the alcohol that
they want to need. Sadly.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Thanks for joining us Virginia great.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
(23:30):
tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.
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