October 15, 2025 • 22 mins
New details have emerged about what could be happening behind closed doors at Gloriavale.
Authorities have been quietly been involved in yet another investigation there – with the Children’s Minister and Oranga Tamariki both involved.
This time, a “mass allegation investigation” relates to concerns that parents were taught to cover the mouths of children and babies to stop them from crying.
NZ Herald senior investigative reporter, Michael Morrah, has been digging into this, and he joins us today on The Front Page.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
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Producer: Jane Yee
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kiota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
The New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
New details have emerged about what could be happening behind
the scenes at Gloria Vale. Authorities have been quietly involved
in yet another investigation there, with the Children's Minister and
Uraga Tamariki both involved.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
This time a mass allegation.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Investigation relates to concerns that parents were taught to cover
the mouths of children and babies to stop them from crying.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Ends At Herald's senior.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Investigative reporter, Michael Morra has been digging into this and
he joins us now on the Front Page. First off, Michael,
I know in this day and age, you'd be pretty
hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know what Glory
is Val is. But how would you explain it to
someone who just didn't know anything about it?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I guess it's a secretive sect on the west coast
of the South Island. It's a fundamentalist Christian community. They
have a very male dominated leadership structure. Women don't really
have the same rights or leadership roles as the men
who there's the overseeing shepherd and then the Shepherds do.
(01:27):
They have a very shared sense of belonging and they
promote large families. They have struck protocols on what you
can dress. They also do not like influence from the
outside world, which is seen as evil, and their world
is seen as following Jesus Christ and what he would do.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
How many people are there?
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Do? We know?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
About six hundred members at Gloria Vale currently.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And a lot of kids.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Yes, mostly children, So the population of Gloria Vale is
mainly made up of young people.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Tell me about how you first learned that there might
be another investigation happening behind the scenes at Gloriavale and
what are those allegations.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So I've just started doing some investigative work into Gloria Vale,
and part of that involved filing some Official Information Act
requests with the Children's Minister, Karen Shaw. As part of
that request, I sought updates and ministerial briefings. I essentially,
as a journalist, wanted to know what precisely was going
(02:37):
on at Gloria Vale right now in twenty twenty five,
and what had the minister advised been advised was going on.
What I learned is that police and udoing a Tamaiki
have quietly been conducting what they term a mass allegation
investigation at Gloria Vale. This has involved more than one
(02:58):
hundred interviews with parents children who are current residents of Glorivale,
as well as some former residents or leavers of Gloriavale.
This started this investigation in November last year and it's
now been complete. And what I've learned from the documents
(03:19):
is that this investigation was carried out as a result
of concerns that came out in the Royal Abuse and
Care Inquiry. Now that Abuse and Care Inquiry obviously heard
from lawyers and former residents of Gloriavale about the abuse
(03:39):
and harm they say occurred during their time within this community,
and it was that information which prompted this mass allegation investigation.
Now what exactly was it all about, Well, one aspect
and it hasn't really been covered much at all in
(04:00):
the media in terms of what the Commission heard was
that there was a practice at Gloria Vail that Founder
Hopeful Christian essentially taught and encouraged, and that was if
a child is crying or upset or making noise, there
(04:21):
is a method to stop that and it should be
encouraged because it's disciplining a child, and parents who discipline
their children and who have well behaved children at Gloria
Vale are given the big tick that they're doing well.
And that method to quiet and children was to put
your hand over the baby or child's mouth and knows
(04:45):
so that they would not cry anymore. Now, obviously that
is incredibly dangerous. However, I have spoken to former Gloria
Vail residents who told me parents were never told of
the risks of this to a child. It was all
about discipline and they were taught these techniques, which is
(05:10):
hand over mouth to prevent a child from crying.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I mean you've spoken to at least one former
Glory of Our resident, Virginia Courage. I saw what she
said about her experiences there as a parent.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Her comments in my story out on enzid hero dot
co dot nz this morning verifies what the Royal Commission
into Abuse and Care heard, And what the Commission heard
was that quote. Several former residents reported seeing children and
(05:47):
infants turning blue after they had been essentially suffocated by
their pearents when they were crying. Virginia Courage told me
that about two thousand and fourteen, she was in a meeting.
(06:08):
This was a married couple's meeting, and during that meeting,
Hopeful Christian and another person who she says was some
sort of medical authority within Gloria Vale, even though he
had no medical training whatsoever, spoke about this technique and
said not to worry about asphyxiation and that the child
(06:29):
who would go quiet would still be able to breathe
because they would just then relax. But it was about
teaching them discipline, and so her comments was that she
saw children turning blue in her time. She also said
to me that she had to on one occasion, and
this was in two thousand and six. Between the two
(06:51):
thousand and six and two thousand and eight, she was
brought a baby who was limp and in the arms
of her father, and she was asked to resuscitate the baby,
which she did. Of course, Virginia, as a woman in
Gloria Vale, did not make a fuss about this, did
(07:11):
not say to the father, what are you doing, because
women and saying something like that too a man in
Gloriavale is frowned upon. She told me she was horrified
and terrified by the practice and the fact that it
was being taught and she said to her husband, they
would never do that to their children. But she recalls
(07:34):
growing up in Gloria Vale, she saw it happen regularly
to other children and she saw children kids plural go
blue when this occurred.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
An outsider might look in and say, well, these children
are being exploited.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
They talk nonsense, They talk nonsense. These children are growing
up learning now to take responsibility. They're not going to
go on the doll We will find work for people,
and if they can't work for some reason, we will
look after them. I believe that God's given me a
job to do and that's why we start the community
(08:14):
and whatever that meant to do that or done it.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
So what else have the documents revealed? What does the
Children's minister know about this?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
So I've spoken to Karen Chaw. She was quite reluctant
to go into specifics about this investigation. But what we
do know from police or maybe I'll just mentioned the
police action first on this, because that's quite important here.
The police have carried out this investigation that's now complete
(08:47):
and they have issued two formal warnings to to residents
at Gloria Vale and they are also doing what they're
calling techniques. They're giving parents techniques on how to deal
with various childhood behaviors and scenarios. So that's the official
(09:07):
action that police and udong A Tamadiki have taken. Two
formal warnings and then education and advice. Now the minister
says that's a good positive step because her team, who
she says she has recently increased resources for in Graymouth,
are going in there regularly and are advising parents about
(09:29):
what you should and shouldn't do when you have a
child or baby. So she says that's a good start,
you know, will it Lee? I said to her, well,
you know, will this actually result in change? And she said, well, look,
it may not change the entire world, but it's a start,
is what she said. I also asked her, in light
of these this evidence and these investigations and what the
(09:54):
Royal Commission has already found, should Gloria Vale still be
functioning in twenty twenty And she said to me that
she would not offer her personal opinion on the state
of Gloriavale, but that under her watch, her job was
to ensure that children were safe and that's what she
would do and she said that if police or audoing
A Tamadeki learned that children were being harmed in Gloria Vale,
(10:17):
it's her expectation that they would be removed from that community.
And she's quite adamant that her team in there regularly
doing the best job that they can. They've been properly
resourced to do that job, and she's keeping a very
close eye on this situation. What does regular mean, I
(10:39):
think regular means weekly, So audong A Tamadiki are going
in there weekly to check on things that are happening there.
Just in terms of a little bit of a background
as well to this mass allegation investigation to give you
a bit of a stare on just how significant this was.
Ordering a Tamadiki between October twenty twenty four and August
(11:04):
this year received so that's eleven months, they received eighty
one reports of concern from within the glory of our community.
So this really gives you, Chelsea, a pretty strong indication
of just how problematic things have been. So these reports
(11:27):
of concern, the eighty one sixty of those reports have
concerned related to this mass allegation investigation, which of course,
was this practice or technique or method of covering up
a child or babies airways when they are upset or crying.
(11:48):
So that is the result of the investigation so far,
these formal warnings from police and the education and advice
being offered.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Who else have you spoken to about this?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Spoken to lawyer Brian Henry. You may remember Brian Henry's name.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
He is, Yeah, he's been in court before.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Run yep, yep. He has. In fact, he led to
landmark cases which were successful in the Employment Court which
determined that his clients, former Gloriavale residents were in fact
employees at Gloria Vale, not volunteers. During that those court
(12:28):
cases he effectively we didn't effectively, he did state that
essentially Gloria Vale was operating off the back of slave
labor and child labor in some instances. So that is
what the Employment Court heard and they agreed with him.
And there has been various reparations that Gloriavale has had
(12:48):
to pay out as a result of that. So Brian
Henry has essentially been spearheading action against Gloria Vale. He
was scathing of the action taken by police and of
the comments of the Children's Minister Karen Chaw in this instance.
In his words, he says, this practice of handover mouth
(13:12):
amounts to suffocating a child and it is, in his words,
a very very serious crime. In his words, it's also
very very violent. And he's highly critical of the minister,
telling me that how can she sit back in Wellington
and say that she's reassured that everything is okay in
(13:33):
Gloria Vail when we know that it's still operating, and
when we know that this sort of thing has been
going on. He also points out that doing things like
issuing warnings or offering education and advice to leaders at
Gloria Vail, in his mind, will not lead to change
(13:55):
because don't forget, Gloria Vail is community whereby they all
listen to the shepherds, and the overseeing shepherd they call
the shots. It's not police or auditing a tamadiki who
they necessarily listen to. That's what he says. That's what
Brian Henry says anyway, So he is deeply skeptical about
(14:19):
whether these formal warnings and education are being dished out
by police and ordering a tamadeki is going to lead
to lasting change because of the extent of control and
manipulation that has been visited on the people of Gloriaval
for many, many decades.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
It sounds like he would rather Gloriaval ended.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Well, I mean exactly, and he's said that to me,
you know, during our interview that how can the Minister
say that we're doing all we can to ensure these
children are safe when Gloria Vale is still operating. That's
the fundamental problem here is that Gloria Vale is still
in the existence in twenty twenty five. He says, this
(15:03):
government and consecutive governments have failed to do anything about Gloria.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Vale for decades.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
For fifty years, Chelsea, Yeah, this is how long it's
been going on for. And we know leaders like Hopeful
Christian was a convicted sex offender. We know there's been
multiple cases brook before the courts where sexual assault on
young people has been proven and police have been involved
(15:32):
in that. So he is deeply skeptical of the minister's
reassurances and invites her to go and talk to some
of the leaders of Gloria Vale to understand the gravity
and the seriousness of the current situation.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
And so what would you say to them and Glory
about it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Genuinely skiered and don't know what's out there in the
outside world.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I would say to them that the world is so
bigger than so much bigger than Glorovale, and like it's
okay to ask questions, and life is more than just survivant,
like God put us on this earth to have imaginations
and to have hobbies and to live and enjoy it,
(16:23):
not just survive. And life can be fun. It doesn't
just have to be work work, work, and you can
ask questions, you can be you, and being you's okay.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Has Gloria Vail responded to any of this, Yes.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
So they have come back to me, and in an
email attributed to a community spokesperson, they tell me that
the members of Gloria Vail uphold the national expectations of
safety for children in New Zealand. They also point out
that since twenty sixteen there have been education programs within
(17:02):
Gloria Vail on safe parenting and child safety awareness, and
that since twenty sixteen these education processes have quote progressively
been embedded. They also talk about the mass allegation investigation
in the community spokesperson told me that there was a
significant percentage of internal reporting that had taken place by
(17:26):
parents self reporting, which is how Adongo Tamadiki may have
become aware of this issue. They say that there were
two formal warnings issued by police. One was the result
of a parent self reporting and the other allegation was denied.
The spokesburses says neither allegation involved a member while in
(17:47):
a professional role and that neither allegation led to further action.
But just to confirm, they have said that it was
in twenty twenty four that police and OT held a
meeting with parents and leaders and were quote very clearly
(18:08):
told of the emotional and physical dangers of restricting the
airway in young people. Essentially, what Gloria Vale is telling
me is that they have taken on board this meeting
when police turned up and OT turned up and said, hey,
look you can't restrict a child's airways. They've taken that
(18:30):
on board and they have been implementing these changes over
many years now. Of course, when you get a statement
like this as a journalist and it says that education
programs have been progressively embedded, I then went back to
Gloriavale and said, well, what does that mean? Does that
(18:52):
mean that this is still possibly happening, And the response
I got was, to my knowledge, no parents are practic this.
So I guess that's the reassurance from Gloria Vale is
that this is not happening anymore. It was hardly what
I would say a compelling green light that all is well.
(19:15):
But I think what is important here, Chelsea, is that
it was the Royal Commission who unearthed this information about
children having their airways restricted. Was it the leaders at
Gloria Vale who volunteered and said, hey, guys, we just
realized we've been doing this and it might not be
the best way to treat kids. Was it Gloria of
(19:36):
our leaders who who offered up this information to police
or authorities?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
No, it was not.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
It was leavers. It was former residents who told police
in OT and the Commission about what happened. And it
is on that basis that police and OT have begun
this investigation.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
How confident are you that this practice has ended?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Well, look, I'm not in Gloria Vale. I haven't been
down there for some time. I have spoken to people
at Gloria Vale because I would like to go down
and catch up with the new overseeing shepherd who's been
put in charge of the place. But I don't know
is the answer. You know, it depends on who you asked.
(20:26):
You know, I suspect that some would believe it. Of course,
is still going on because as I've said, these sorts
of practices and techniques, just like you have to dress
like this, and just like we have this structure of
men in charge and women are not. You listen to
(20:47):
the leadership. The leadership are in total control and you
have to abide by what they say. And this form
of discipline for children while brought in recommended and endorsed
by Hopeful Christian, the founder of Gloria Vale. But look,
(21:08):
we have to also listen to what the minister is
saying here, listen to what police and ot have done.
This is not a small investigation. This is a huge,
months long investigation. More than one hundred interviews have taken place,
and they say that they have they're now and there
(21:29):
making sure parents are aware of parenting techniques and how
to treat their children. And of course we have Gloria
Vale saying that you know, they have been implementing these
child safety programs since about twenty sixteen, and they have
also told me that to their knowledge, no parents are
practicing this anymore, so look, it depends on who you ask.
(21:52):
We've been told that it's not happening anymore, so I think,
you know, we have to I don't have any evidence
that it is still going on at Gloriavale at the.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Thanks for joining us, Michael Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
Kiota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
The New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
New details have emerged about what could be happening behind
the scenes at Gloria Vale. Authorities have been quietly involved
in yet another investigation there, with the Children's Minister and
Uraga Tamariki both involved.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
This time a mass allegation.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Investigation relates to concerns that parents were taught to cover
the mouths of children and babies to stop them from crying.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Ends At Herald's senior.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Investigative reporter, Michael Morra has been digging into this and
he joins us now on the Front Page. First off, Michael,
I know in this day and age, you'd be pretty
hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know what Glory
is Val is. But how would you explain it to
someone who just didn't know anything about it?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I guess it's a secretive sect on the west coast
of the South Island. It's a fundamentalist Christian community. They
have a very male dominated leadership structure. Women don't really
have the same rights or leadership roles as the men
who there's the overseeing shepherd and then the Shepherds do.
(01:27):
They have a very shared sense of belonging and they
promote large families. They have struck protocols on what you
can dress. They also do not like influence from the
outside world, which is seen as evil, and their world
is seen as following Jesus Christ and what he would do.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
How many people are there?
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Do? We know?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
About six hundred members at Gloria Vale currently.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And a lot of kids.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Yes, mostly children, So the population of Gloria Vale is
mainly made up of young people.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Tell me about how you first learned that there might
be another investigation happening behind the scenes at Gloriavale and
what are those allegations.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
So I've just started doing some investigative work into Gloria Vale,
and part of that involved filing some Official Information Act
requests with the Children's Minister, Karen Shaw. As part of
that request, I sought updates and ministerial briefings. I essentially,
as a journalist, wanted to know what precisely was going
(02:37):
on at Gloria Vale right now in twenty twenty five,
and what had the minister advised been advised was going on.
What I learned is that police and udoing a Tamaiki
have quietly been conducting what they term a mass allegation
investigation at Gloria Vale. This has involved more than one
(02:58):
hundred interviews with parents children who are current residents of Glorivale,
as well as some former residents or leavers of Gloriavale.
This started this investigation in November last year and it's
now been complete. And what I've learned from the documents
(03:19):
is that this investigation was carried out as a result
of concerns that came out in the Royal Abuse and
Care Inquiry. Now that Abuse and Care Inquiry obviously heard
from lawyers and former residents of Gloriavale about the abuse
(03:39):
and harm they say occurred during their time within this community,
and it was that information which prompted this mass allegation investigation.
Now what exactly was it all about, Well, one aspect
and it hasn't really been covered much at all in
(04:00):
the media in terms of what the Commission heard was
that there was a practice at Gloria Vail that Founder
Hopeful Christian essentially taught and encouraged, and that was if
a child is crying or upset or making noise, there
(04:21):
is a method to stop that and it should be
encouraged because it's disciplining a child, and parents who discipline
their children and who have well behaved children at Gloria
Vale are given the big tick that they're doing well.
And that method to quiet and children was to put
your hand over the baby or child's mouth and knows
(04:45):
so that they would not cry anymore. Now, obviously that
is incredibly dangerous. However, I have spoken to former Gloria
Vail residents who told me parents were never told of
the risks of this to a child. It was all
about discipline and they were taught these techniques, which is
(05:10):
hand over mouth to prevent a child from crying.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, I mean you've spoken to at least one former
Glory of Our resident, Virginia Courage. I saw what she
said about her experiences there as a parent.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Her comments in my story out on enzid hero dot
co dot nz this morning verifies what the Royal Commission
into Abuse and Care heard, And what the Commission heard
was that quote. Several former residents reported seeing children and
(05:47):
infants turning blue after they had been essentially suffocated by
their pearents when they were crying. Virginia Courage told me
that about two thousand and fourteen, she was in a meeting.
(06:08):
This was a married couple's meeting, and during that meeting,
Hopeful Christian and another person who she says was some
sort of medical authority within Gloria Vale, even though he
had no medical training whatsoever, spoke about this technique and
said not to worry about asphyxiation and that the child
(06:29):
who would go quiet would still be able to breathe
because they would just then relax. But it was about
teaching them discipline, and so her comments was that she
saw children turning blue in her time. She also said
to me that she had to on one occasion, and
this was in two thousand and six. Between the two
(06:51):
thousand and six and two thousand and eight, she was
brought a baby who was limp and in the arms
of her father, and she was asked to resuscitate the baby,
which she did. Of course, Virginia, as a woman in
Gloria Vale, did not make a fuss about this, did
(07:11):
not say to the father, what are you doing, because
women and saying something like that too a man in
Gloriavale is frowned upon. She told me she was horrified
and terrified by the practice and the fact that it
was being taught and she said to her husband, they
would never do that to their children. But she recalls
(07:34):
growing up in Gloria Vale, she saw it happen regularly
to other children and she saw children kids plural go
blue when this occurred.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
An outsider might look in and say, well, these children
are being exploited.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
They talk nonsense, They talk nonsense. These children are growing
up learning now to take responsibility. They're not going to
go on the doll We will find work for people,
and if they can't work for some reason, we will
look after them. I believe that God's given me a
job to do and that's why we start the community
(08:14):
and whatever that meant to do that or done it.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
So what else have the documents revealed? What does the
Children's minister know about this?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
So I've spoken to Karen Chaw. She was quite reluctant
to go into specifics about this investigation. But what we
do know from police or maybe I'll just mentioned the
police action first on this, because that's quite important here.
The police have carried out this investigation that's now complete
(08:47):
and they have issued two formal warnings to to residents
at Gloria Vale and they are also doing what they're
calling techniques. They're giving parents techniques on how to deal
with various childhood behaviors and scenarios. So that's the official
(09:07):
action that police and udong A Tamadiki have taken. Two
formal warnings and then education and advice. Now the minister
says that's a good positive step because her team, who
she says she has recently increased resources for in Graymouth,
are going in there regularly and are advising parents about
(09:29):
what you should and shouldn't do when you have a
child or baby. So she says that's a good start,
you know, will it Lee? I said to her, well,
you know, will this actually result in change? And she said, well, look,
it may not change the entire world, but it's a start,
is what she said. I also asked her, in light
of these this evidence and these investigations and what the
(09:54):
Royal Commission has already found, should Gloria Vale still be
functioning in twenty twenty And she said to me that
she would not offer her personal opinion on the state
of Gloriavale, but that under her watch, her job was
to ensure that children were safe and that's what she
would do and she said that if police or audoing
A Tamadeki learned that children were being harmed in Gloria Vale,
(10:17):
it's her expectation that they would be removed from that community.
And she's quite adamant that her team in there regularly
doing the best job that they can. They've been properly
resourced to do that job, and she's keeping a very
close eye on this situation. What does regular mean, I
(10:39):
think regular means weekly, So audong A Tamadiki are going
in there weekly to check on things that are happening there.
Just in terms of a little bit of a background
as well to this mass allegation investigation to give you
a bit of a stare on just how significant this was.
Ordering a Tamadiki between October twenty twenty four and August
(11:04):
this year received so that's eleven months, they received eighty
one reports of concern from within the glory of our community.
So this really gives you, Chelsea, a pretty strong indication
of just how problematic things have been. So these reports
(11:27):
of concern, the eighty one sixty of those reports have
concerned related to this mass allegation investigation, which of course,
was this practice or technique or method of covering up
a child or babies airways when they are upset or crying.
(11:48):
So that is the result of the investigation so far,
these formal warnings from police and the education and advice
being offered.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Who else have you spoken to about this?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Spoken to lawyer Brian Henry. You may remember Brian Henry's name.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
He is, Yeah, he's been in court before.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Run yep, yep. He has. In fact, he led to
landmark cases which were successful in the Employment Court which
determined that his clients, former Gloriavale residents were in fact
employees at Gloria Vale, not volunteers. During that those court
(12:28):
cases he effectively we didn't effectively, he did state that
essentially Gloria Vale was operating off the back of slave
labor and child labor in some instances. So that is
what the Employment Court heard and they agreed with him.
And there has been various reparations that Gloriavale has had
(12:48):
to pay out as a result of that. So Brian
Henry has essentially been spearheading action against Gloria Vale. He
was scathing of the action taken by police and of
the comments of the Children's Minister Karen Chaw in this instance.
In his words, he says, this practice of handover mouth
(13:12):
amounts to suffocating a child and it is, in his words,
a very very serious crime. In his words, it's also
very very violent. And he's highly critical of the minister,
telling me that how can she sit back in Wellington
and say that she's reassured that everything is okay in
(13:33):
Gloria Vail when we know that it's still operating, and
when we know that this sort of thing has been
going on. He also points out that doing things like
issuing warnings or offering education and advice to leaders at
Gloria Vail, in his mind, will not lead to change
(13:55):
because don't forget, Gloria Vail is community whereby they all
listen to the shepherds, and the overseeing shepherd they call
the shots. It's not police or auditing a tamadiki who
they necessarily listen to. That's what he says. That's what
Brian Henry says anyway, So he is deeply skeptical about
(14:19):
whether these formal warnings and education are being dished out
by police and ordering a tamadeki is going to lead
to lasting change because of the extent of control and
manipulation that has been visited on the people of Gloriaval
for many, many decades.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
It sounds like he would rather Gloriaval ended.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Well, I mean exactly, and he's said that to me,
you know, during our interview that how can the Minister
say that we're doing all we can to ensure these
children are safe when Gloria Vale is still operating. That's
the fundamental problem here is that Gloria Vale is still
in the existence in twenty twenty five. He says, this
(15:03):
government and consecutive governments have failed to do anything about Gloria.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Vale for decades.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
For fifty years, Chelsea, Yeah, this is how long it's
been going on for. And we know leaders like Hopeful
Christian was a convicted sex offender. We know there's been
multiple cases brook before the courts where sexual assault on
young people has been proven and police have been involved
(15:32):
in that. So he is deeply skeptical of the minister's
reassurances and invites her to go and talk to some
of the leaders of Gloria Vale to understand the gravity
and the seriousness of the current situation.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
And so what would you say to them and Glory
about it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Genuinely skiered and don't know what's out there in the
outside world.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I would say to them that the world is so
bigger than so much bigger than Glorovale, and like it's
okay to ask questions, and life is more than just survivant,
like God put us on this earth to have imaginations
and to have hobbies and to live and enjoy it,
(16:23):
not just survive. And life can be fun. It doesn't
just have to be work work, work, and you can
ask questions, you can be you, and being you's okay.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Has Gloria Vail responded to any of this, Yes.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
So they have come back to me, and in an
email attributed to a community spokesperson, they tell me that
the members of Gloria Vail uphold the national expectations of
safety for children in New Zealand. They also point out
that since twenty sixteen there have been education programs within
(17:02):
Gloria Vail on safe parenting and child safety awareness, and
that since twenty sixteen these education processes have quote progressively
been embedded. They also talk about the mass allegation investigation
in the community spokesperson told me that there was a
significant percentage of internal reporting that had taken place by
(17:26):
parents self reporting, which is how Adongo Tamadiki may have
become aware of this issue. They say that there were
two formal warnings issued by police. One was the result
of a parent self reporting and the other allegation was denied.
The spokesburses says neither allegation involved a member while in
(17:47):
a professional role and that neither allegation led to further action.
But just to confirm, they have said that it was
in twenty twenty four that police and OT held a
meeting with parents and leaders and were quote very clearly
(18:08):
told of the emotional and physical dangers of restricting the
airway in young people. Essentially, what Gloria Vale is telling
me is that they have taken on board this meeting
when police turned up and OT turned up and said, hey,
look you can't restrict a child's airways. They've taken that
(18:30):
on board and they have been implementing these changes over
many years now. Of course, when you get a statement
like this as a journalist and it says that education
programs have been progressively embedded, I then went back to
Gloriavale and said, well, what does that mean? Does that
(18:52):
mean that this is still possibly happening, And the response
I got was, to my knowledge, no parents are practic this.
So I guess that's the reassurance from Gloria Vale is
that this is not happening anymore. It was hardly what
I would say a compelling green light that all is well.
(19:15):
But I think what is important here, Chelsea, is that
it was the Royal Commission who unearthed this information about
children having their airways restricted. Was it the leaders at
Gloria Vale who volunteered and said, hey, guys, we just
realized we've been doing this and it might not be
the best way to treat kids. Was it Gloria of
(19:36):
our leaders who who offered up this information to police
or authorities?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
No, it was not.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
It was leavers. It was former residents who told police
in OT and the Commission about what happened. And it
is on that basis that police and OT have begun
this investigation.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
How confident are you that this practice has ended?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Well, look, I'm not in Gloria Vale. I haven't been
down there for some time. I have spoken to people
at Gloria Vale because I would like to go down
and catch up with the new overseeing shepherd who's been
put in charge of the place. But I don't know
is the answer. You know, it depends on who you asked.
(20:26):
You know, I suspect that some would believe it. Of course,
is still going on because as I've said, these sorts
of practices and techniques, just like you have to dress
like this, and just like we have this structure of
men in charge and women are not. You listen to
(20:47):
the leadership. The leadership are in total control and you
have to abide by what they say. And this form
of discipline for children while brought in recommended and endorsed
by Hopeful Christian, the founder of Gloria Vale. But look,
(21:08):
we have to also listen to what the minister is
saying here, listen to what police and ot have done.
This is not a small investigation. This is a huge,
months long investigation. More than one hundred interviews have taken place,
and they say that they have they're now and there
(21:29):
making sure parents are aware of parenting techniques and how
to treat their children. And of course we have Gloria
Vale saying that you know, they have been implementing these
child safety programs since about twenty sixteen, and they have
also told me that to their knowledge, no parents are
practicing this anymore, so look, it depends on who you ask.
(21:52):
We've been told that it's not happening anymore, so I think,
you know, we have to I don't have any evidence
that it is still going on at Gloriavale at the.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Thanks for joining us, Michael Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
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