Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Chioda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and This is the Front Page,
a daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. There's
been a leadership shakeup at the Royal New Zealand Police
College after a recruiting debacle. It's while a newly released
(00:25):
survey of training officers has found two thirds were concerned
about probationary cops understanding of police responsibilities when holding suspects
and custody. It also found fifty five percent of them
feel new cops were barely or not at all well
equipped with knowledge of arrest and charge procedures. All of
(00:49):
this while the government is slowly backing away from its
hardline promise of five hundred new cops on the beat
by November. And at Herald, senior investigative porter Michael Mourra
has been looking into the police recruitment process and joins
us now on the Front Page. First off, Mike, tell
(01:11):
me a little bit about this survey.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, So, the survey got the views of two hundred
and thirty senior training officers or very experienced police officers
and sought their feedback on the competency and standards of
the product that was coming out of the Police College,
ie the recruits were they up to scratch?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
It was a.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
March survey, so very recent and a look back over
a six month period in two hundred and thirty senior
police giving their opinion is obviously, you know, pretty substantial.
So the survey in summary showed that there was many
areas where police recruits coming out onto frontline duties were
performing reasonably, okay, adequately or in the survey's words.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Quite well.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And that was driving firearms, tactical gear like use of
pepper spray and tases, and road policing. Those were all,
you know, pretty okay. But then there was some really
concerning findings which were related to what many would see
as relatively basic policing. So there were issues with custodial
(02:17):
duties i e. What are the rules and procedures for
holding a suspect in custody. There were issues around arrest
and charging procedures, and use of police systems like the
NEAR application, which is the National Intelligence Application. This is
the database that police officers can look up and find
(02:37):
out addresses, convictions, any other intelligence about a suspect.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So all of those areas.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
And particularly file preparation, that was the worst came in
for pretty bad scrutiny. Essentially, the senior police who were
taking part found that in all of those areas, the
new recruits coming out onto the front line were either
barely prepared or not well at all prepared in those roles.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right, So, when we talk about things like, say, procedures
for making an arrest or laying charges, is that kind
of like the Miranda rights thing that we see on
NCIS or something.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, exactly, So it could be anything from the requirement
to read to suspect their rights. You also have to
inform them precisely the reason why they're being arrested. In
other cases, if you executing a warrant and arresting someone
with a warrant it requested, you must provide that warrant
(03:36):
within a reasonable timeframe to the suspect. And there's a
whole lot of other things that I'm not really aware of.
I'm not a cop, But yeah, it's those procedures around
the arrest in laying charges potentially, also that the administrative
work involved in that and quite a few gaps in that.
In fact, more than fifty percent of respondents felt that
(03:57):
the new police on the front line were barely equipped
or not well at all equipped in those areas of
making arrests and laying charges, which is you know, relatively
concerning and will certainly give the bosses at the Police
College and the executive level food for thought in terms
of going forward.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well, you can be the best driver in the world,
you can be the best at pepper spraying in the world,
but if you can't get those charges correct and do
the paperwork involved, it all falls falls down in court,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, So file preparation was by far the most serious.
This is the this is the report we got under
the Official Information Act and file preparation. It is eighty
three percent of respondents. So you know, that's well over
one hundred and twenty police who were part of the survey.
(04:48):
Their findings are that the officers coming out of the
college were barely or not at all well prepared in
those respects. So file preparation, as you say, that might
be making a witness statement from someone. It might be
a witness, it might be an offender. All of that stuff,
that paperwork, how you make those notes, where those notes
(05:10):
are filed, what you do after you've done that interview.
All that stuff has to be logged. Then is of
course the file preparation, but file preparation also relates to
going to court. It also relates to the chain of
evidence during investigations into serious crime. If you don't get
(05:31):
that stuff right and you get all the way to
court and you get a fancy defense lawyer, then they
will rip police apart and the case will fall apart,
and a lot of effort goes into that, and so
that is clearly an area that they must improve on.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Look, they've pointed out a number of areas that we
need to pick up and improve, and as we go
forwards what they've shown us and what we've seen in
other evaluations, we'll be pulling together and looking at whereas
our best investment in terms of enhancing and improving training.
Their feedback is really really valuable because they're on the
front line with the probationary comp So.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Does their feedback result in actual change here at the
college to improve.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Yes, So we've got a review team underway at the moment.
He'll be looking to put in place some improvements to
our current curriculum early next year, and we'll be doing
some longer term work.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
You've spoken to the Royal and z Police College Director
Superintendent Sam Keats. Now he's pretty new in the role. Hey,
what did he have to say.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, he's only actually been director for six weeks at
the college, so very new. But I think he was
very very clear during the interview we had that there
are going to be changes to the course at the
Police College as a result of this feedback. He couldn't
precisely say which areas needed to be tweaked, but of
(06:56):
course you when you look at far preparation and procedures
for arrest charges, those are obviously key areas that they
would be looking at. The other thing that I think
will be up for some debate at the moment is
just the duration that police spend at Police College. At
the moment, it's twenty weeks that was on Mark Mitchell's call,
(07:18):
increased from sixteen earlier this year, so slightly longer. But
we in New Zealand still have one of the lowest
training periods in the world according to the Police Association,
and Chris Carhill told me that essentially he doesn't think
twenty weeks is long enough. He'd like to see another
month added on. He also had concerns about the I
(07:42):
guess real life and environment of training, you know, actually
getting out to a station during that time that you're
within the confines of the college to see what policing
on the frontline is really about.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Now, Sam Keats told me at the moment.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
There is a one week deployment out of that twenty weeks,
and listening to Tasha Penny from Police who's also made
comments on this story, I think that is an area
where she would like to see more time actually spent
in practical operational mode as opposed to reading books in
(08:24):
the police college. And Sam Keats is certainly open to
making changes in relation to making it more practical in
terms of the training, and he's also open to the
idea without making any sort of confirmation that the duration
of the time recruits spend there could increase.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Well, that duration actually surprised me. Twenty weeks and you
get handed a taser and a police car at the
end of it. I mean, I don't know how long
you spent studying to be a journalist, but I think
mine was three years.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I spent four.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But I think what you need to look at for
this is that you know, and Sam Keyes pointed this
out when we were speaking, is that when a recruit
has graduated from police College and they've done their twenty
weeks and they have the ceremony and they are then
dispersed to whichever district they're going to. It's not like
(09:23):
they are just left to their own devices. And sam
Keats words that the training aspect of the college is
just the beginning of the learning, because technically, once you're
on the front line, you are a probationary constable i e.
A junior for a two year period and during that
time you are supposed to be receiving mentoring and oversight
(09:48):
from senior police. I guess the question is is a
senior police officer looking after you.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The whole time? Well, I doubt it, because.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
They've gone and taken a job in Northern Territory or something.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Well potentially, but you can't always, even as a probationary constable,
expect that a senior field training officer is going to
be your wingman all the time. But certainly you know
that there is this period once you're on the front
line that there is feedback and there is oversight.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
When asked about this on Herald Now this week, Prime
Minister Christopher Luckson said, sort of it feels a little
bit also like you know a lot of workplaces where
the new generation is never quite as good as the
old generation. What did you think of that?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Well, I think I don't really buy into that sort
of comment.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I think that bit of a boomer comment, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Well, it is a bit of a boomer comment, But
I mean, yeah, I guess you could kind of make
that argument. But the point here is that the senior police,
the experienced police, they are the ones in the know.
And the fact of the matter is is that doing
surveys like this if you want to and pre the
standards of police that we're putting out on the streets
in New Zealand, is critical because otherwise how do you
(11:06):
actually improve or tweak or adapt the program that they're learning.
So look, I don't really buy into that comment. I
think it's more or less a throwaway remark, to be honest.
You know, this is clearly an important survey and it's
one that is going to prompt changes, and those changes,
(11:26):
according to Superintendent Sam Keats, will be made by early
next year.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And he gave us a tiny bit of insight into
this whole five hundred offices by November deadline.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Right, well, essentially the the you know, the national government
has had this target right, five hundred police. It was
always by the end of November. As the months have
gone on over this year, over the last six months especially,
it's gone from oh, look, you know, we're not sure
if we'll meet that deadline. I can't comment on that,
(11:59):
to hey, we're not too worried if it doesn't mean that,
And now the Prime Minister is actually essentially saying that
that target is dead in the water and that we'll
get there. When they get there, he'll say it may
take a couple more months until we get that extra
five hundred police on the front line. So he's left
(12:19):
himself a bit of riggle room. But obviously this is
politically embarrassing because it was a key commitment.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
We know that law and order.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Is a national party and coalition plank, central plank of
their election and so when you're promising that we're going
to do this and you failed to deliver, it doesn't
look great. And so that the narrative, if you like,
from our politicians has been changing over the past few
months until you know, just recently on Herald now essentially
(12:52):
the PM saying nah, November is not.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Going to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
And we've spoken about concerns with the recruitment process before.
I think at the end of June, basically applicants being
led into college via exemptions, not passing fitness tests, struggling
through English language tests. Has there been any update on.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
This, Well, yes, today, I've got emails.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
This was around the period where I broke the story
about applicants who were applying to get into Police College
and the fact that they were bypassing or being exempted
from certain tests. When you were applying to get into
Police College, there are a whole lot of things you
have to do. You can't just rock up and say I, Mike,
(13:38):
I want to start at Police College. You know there's
background checks, et cetera. But you have to do psychometric testing,
you have to do a fitness test, you have to
pass literacy so English. Now, of course we know that
after that story and we revealed that there was problems
with the fitness test, that staff being exempted. This big
(14:02):
audit was undertaken and by Police, an internal audit to
find out how widespread the problems were, and of course
the audit found that they were very widespread. In fact,
it was common practice, in the words of the author
of the audit, that exemptions or discretionary decisions were being made,
including by some of the top ranked police in the
country who were exempting these applicants. So the emails I've
(14:25):
got were in May here from Richard Chambers where he
really clearly sets the tone saying changes needed.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
We need to be bold, quick and clinical.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
He talks about culture at the Royal New Zealand Police
College and says, I believe the college may be struggling
with its identity. This is a question of values, pride
and brand on standards. He's obviously very clear speaks for
itself and I'm the view that we need to make
some changes that make this very clear from the start.
So what's happened here is that there's been this embarrassing
(15:03):
revelation about police officers are not up to scratch getting
into college anyway. Subsequent to that, the Commissioner has come
in and said right, things need to change.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And what we know now is.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
That the leadership at the Police College has been completely overhauled.
As I mentioned, Superintendent Sam Keats is in there. He's
only been six weeks in the role. He has taken
over from an acting director who took over from another
director who was in place before her.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Sam.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Superintendent Sam Keats has also got a whole lot of
other new leaders around him, so the message is pretty
clear from the police executive. They're not happy about how
this has played out, and they have launched into quite
a big overhaul at the Police College in terms of leadership,
decision making and oversight of the quality.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Of our place.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Thanks for joining us, Mike.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune
(16:31):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.