January 8, 2026 • 20 mins
Mark Mitchell has heralded the government’s promise to be tough on crime.
He’s been incredibly clear from the get-go that his primary goal is to make New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate.
He holds five portfolios: Police, Corrections, Emergency Management and Recovery, Ethnic Communities, and Sports and Recreation.
So, how does an MP with so many hats feel about how his government has tackled the big issues?
Today on The Front Page, Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections, and communities.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Kyota at Chelsea Daniels here, host of the Front Page.
We're taking away breakover summer, but to help build the gap,
we're re issuing some of our most significant episodes of
twenty twenty five on behalf of the Front Page team.
Thanks for listening and we look forward to being back
with you on January twelfth, twenty twenty six. Just a
quick note, this interview with Mark Mitchell was recorded prior
(00:41):
to the Tongedito fire. Kyota, I'm Chelsea Daniels and this
is The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the
New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the government's promise
(01:02):
to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly clear from
the get go that his primary goal is to make
New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate. He
holds five portfolios, Police correct Actions, Emergency Management and Recovery,
Ethnic communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an
(01:26):
MP with so many hats feel about how his government
has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page,
Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and communities. So,
first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable whereabouts are you?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm a marrying you Bay Beach, Marrying.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You Bay Beach and whereabouts? Just right on the beach there.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach and this is
the beach that this is the when I was a kid.
This is where I grew up in that surf plub.
I don't know if you can see the surf club. Yeah, yeah,
that was my surf club. So it's not actually my
electric because I ran at a time. I was trying
to get back up to my pitch, but I ran
out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit
down of Marrying You Bay Beach and do the podcast
(02:13):
and Chelsea down there.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So Mark, we've seen a skin this year at the
top of the police chain.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
There's no denying that.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Are you confident the public still has trust in the
New Zealand Police.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New
Zealand Police because without a doubt we have got a
world class police force and the size of the organization
that we have, there's always going to be the odd
rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers
are out there every day, you know, with teens of
thousands of pocket of actions protecting and supporting their communities,
(02:50):
the commutes that they serve. And I'd just like to
say Chelsea that this week I've been to two police
awards ceremonies and probably seventy five percent of the awards
that I see handed out to police officers that have
put themselves in danger saved the lives of members of
the public. When you see bad behavior from a police officer,
(03:11):
there's no one feels it more deeply than those thousands
of both our sworn and non sworn staff that are
out there she holding to and the values and ideals
of our New Zealand police. None feels are more deeply
than them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten if
we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the rotten
apples nearly got the top police job ally was in
contention for the top police job in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I
acknowledge that. All I'd say is that as the incoming
Police Minister, there were quite a few issues that I
had to view with and one of them was this
case and I'm sorry that I can't talk to the
detail on a Chelsea, but it's actually the case although
there has been a guilty plea put in that's still
(04:02):
before the courts for seniencings. Though I can't talk to
the case directly.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime
since June twenty twenty four to May this year. The
fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent
of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government
do more to curb alcohol related crime?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah? I think that. You know, alcohol and drugs have
always been a huge degravating factor in terms of the
perpetration of violent crime. Education has to continue to be
a big part of that. You know. The police are
obviously run very effective road safety programs to make our
roads safe. You know, we've driven down the rates of
(04:53):
drunk driving significantly. And there's always differently, there's different things
that police are looking at doing and providing device Who's
justice officials in terms of how we can continue to
make change. Is that balance up people's right, the responsible
drinkers to have access to alcohol and be able to
enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible and
(05:15):
public safety.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
New Zealand's prison population where is hitting record highs?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Look, I think any society would agree that we don't
want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd
love to have everyone that lives in our societies and
our communities respect one another and not hurt or perpetrate
violent crime against the people in society that are lawabiding.
But unfortunately, as long as humans have been roaming this earth,
that hasn't been the case. And so we've been very
(05:45):
clear as the end up in government that we are
prioritizing public safety that if we have people in our society,
in our communities that don't want to stick to the laws,
they want to hurt people, then you know they are
going to end up and they keep assisted in that
sort of behavior, then they are going to end up
in prison. And our correction is still things because we
want law of bodies to feel safe.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on
crime is actually working.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that
we sent into a rejuction and victimizations. We've already met that,
in fact exceeded that. And of course you'd have to
look at our response as a government, which includes increased
We've made sentencing much toper. We have reduced the discounts
that were allowed from you know, you've seen discounts of
(06:33):
seventy eighty percent. We get that at forty percent. And
like I said, we've just as an incoming government, we
have and as the three parties as a coalition, as
a coalition government, have been very clear that we are
prioritizing public safety.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
What if it's working too well.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, we've already hit the population estimates within about
ten nine hundred behind bars. Will there be more money
in the kiddy next year to address how many people
are actually going to prison?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, so as of yesterday it is about ten eight
hundred in the prison muster and directions to an outstanding
job that is literally a daily event. And to make
sure that you know that we're that everyone is in
the right place and that we're dealing with capacity and riches,
doing outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to
invest into public safety? Absolutely, because although there is a cost,
(07:25):
of course in incarcerating people and having them in the
correction system. There is a much greater human cost and
even economic costs to have them out in society, creating
with victims and the have it that they create, and
the trail of tears that are often sitting behind that
behavior and that from offending.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Well, critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does
not actually reduce reoffending rates.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
How would you respond to.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
That, Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending
rates is when those offenders genuinely want to change. They
genuinely want to embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want
to embrace and see what opportunity just apport for them
in this country. They genuinely want to embrace the training
that is offered and the support that's offered them to
come back and reintegrate with society in a positive way. Ultimately,
(08:14):
that is how your drive changes, each individual wanting to
make those changes in their lives and not wanting to
make bad decisions and make all the excuses for those
bad decisions. All that we can do is a country
in the state is provide them with the mechanism to
be able to do that. And I know that we've
got a big focus. In fact, we put seventy million
dollars additional money into rehabilitation programs in our correction services
(08:37):
so that we give them the ability of the best
fighting charts and when they do come out, they do
make good decisions. But ultimately, Chelsea, it comes to under
personal responsibility. It comes down to each one of those
individuals wanting to make change and until they do, until
they actually want to make change. In my view and
my opinion and my experience, you can throw all the goodwill,
all the programs and all the investment you want at
(08:59):
those people. They will not change until they want to.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
As I said before, gangs are not nice people. Minister
man Sure, Minister Goldsmith and I campaign on cracking down
on gangs and making their life as uncomfortable as possible,
and that is exactly why we have passed the laws.
We have to ban all gang patches and insignia in
public places to empower the police to stop criminal gangs
from associating and communicating with each other, enabling the courts
(09:29):
to issue non consulting orders to gang members, and we're
ensuring that greater weight as given to gang membership at
sentencing as well, enabling the courts to enact even more
severe punishments.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I remember when you first became police minister, you actually
offered up you know, you were offering up people your
personal phone number to see you know, if you do
want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you.
Has anyone taken you up on that offer?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
No, I haven't had any. Yes, you're right that I
have headed out my number two gang members that have
indicated to me that they do want to lead change,
they do want to make change, especially those gang members
with families. So that we've because you know, the most
important thing we can do is break that into generational
gang membership. The impacts so negatively on the children that
are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of
(10:18):
course someone stand by always to help those that genuinely
want to make change, especially those with children. But the
flip side of it is is policemenner. So I've also
been very clear that to help affect that change, if
we have to make it very difficult to be a
game member in New Zealan, to be part of organized crime,
to be part of a group that inflicts a massive
disproportionate with them out of palm on our communities. We're
(10:41):
going to continue to do that as well, and the
police are being very effective of doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback.
I've just come from a public meeting right now where
the feedback and the public's been extremely positive. And the
frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers
so they can reassert themselves and the public can see
that our police are controlling the streets and not be
in that awful position that we were three years ago
(11:10):
where the gangs we're we're controlling the streets where they're
coming out and taking over the public places, intimidating them
from the public, taking over our provincial towns where they
were shutting down public rights in the public at pittstonchol
You haven't seen here that in the last two years
because the police have been so effective and putting together
gain disruption units and making sure that they're proactive and
(11:32):
using the new gang legislation. You know, it's a good
thing that people don't see gag pictures around anymore because
they're quite silly, designed to scier and in terminates people.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for
Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that
you probably haven't been asked about as often as your
your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
But in that capacity you condemned.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
The Destiny Church march against foreign religions that was back
in June. It's pretty bone chilling to see such a
display in New Zealand and on our streets here. Do
you think what's happening overseas? And I'm thinking of those
images of you know, Nazis walking down streets in Melbourne,
for example. Do you think that's spilling over slowly to
(12:20):
New Zealand and are you worried?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Well, I'm working really hard as Minister of Ethnic Community
to fortify itself as a company. And we've got you know,
we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders
in every single one of our ethnic communities and our
faith and religious leaders that completely bind to the fact
that we should always protect what is so fundamentally important
(12:43):
to democracy, and that is the freedom protest and the
freedom of speech. But we can do that in a
peaceful and tolerant way. And a big part of what
I've been doing is Minister of Ethnic Communities. It's working
across all of our communities, all of our faith leaders,
reinforcing that message around social conhesion, making sure that we
don't see that type of violence start to wash up
(13:04):
on our own shores here in New Zealand. Be mindful
of the fact that we will see that we've seen
so much conflict and the vision around the world at
the moment that we've got to work extra hard and
making sure that if we have a community in our
and how if we have a community in New Zealand
that feels unsafe or it's fearful, that we reaped support
around them and do what we can to make sure
(13:26):
that we deal.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
With that as part of this portfolio. And I guess
your role as Police Minister as well. Have you received
any advice from your Australian counterparts about what the stark rise.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
In this kind of thing happening in Victoria?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
No, I haven't, but we can all see it and
I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out
there a month ago with our permissioner for the for
the service of the plan. Victorian police officers out there,
but you can see it out of the streets, and
of course yes I came out and condemned Brian Tommockey
and the Destiny persh because they have a right to
(14:01):
get out there and the freedom to focus like everyone does.
But that turned into really what everyone considered was over violence.
When you start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and
stabbing them, that scares people. That is actually frightening, and
so they should actually reflect on the way that they
(14:22):
are carrying out those protests. So that applies to any
group in New Zealand. There's a way to be a
out the protest to get your messapacity from without resorting
this sort of over violent x and in the ripping
and burning the flags and trying to scare people.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed.
For example, people who you know say you should kill
Chelsea Daniels. She's a very bad person and she deserves it.
You probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's
all right now. That would be wrong and it's a
horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are legitimate
(15:05):
restrictions on speech, but what's not a legitimate restriction on
speech is saying you can't say that because it's hateful
or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings, because
as soon as you give someone in society the power
to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Do you think there needs to be better laws in
place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech
and what determines hate speech.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Perhaps because that's a really tricky area, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's
a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the
reality of it is is that we must protect the
freedom to the freet to a speech in this country
because the minute you try to start to unfringe on that,
where do you start? When he's gone and we all
have the right to exercise our free speech. Destiny Church
(16:00):
chose to exercise their right pre speech in the way
that they did, and I chose to exercise my right
pre speech by coming out condemning what they did.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolios
while in governments so far?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Ah, Look, that's a really good question. Look, I'm very
proud of the work that we're doing in the way
that our police force has responded to our new set
of priorities when we came into government. I just think
the work they're doing, it's quite still the outstanding, the
anecdotal feedback I get from the public, the results that
we've seen starting to flow through. You know, I'm just
so proud of what they're doing and what they're achieving.
(16:37):
Emergency management. You know, I've had nineteen local states emergencies
since I've big Minister. We are making fundamental change in
the way that we look at and approach these things.
We've had report after report after our national states of
emergency highlighting the issues that we need to change. We're
doing that. We've got an investment being coming through that
back the cabinet. We've got new legislation that will provide
(16:58):
us a solid a platform as a country who operates
from corrections. Look, without a doubt, I am so proud
of our correction Service. All of our officers that are
either in a directions facility or out in the community
doing community related corrections work with you know, up to
twenty five to thirty thousand people one time. That is
(17:21):
such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing with some
of the most violent and difficult people that we have
in society, and there's a tens of thousands of positive
actions every week. My big focus there is what simply
been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer Safety
is doing great work. They've launched two products in the
(17:42):
last months that two trials that are going that are
very effective. Expect to report back on one of those,
Sport and Wreck. You know, that's that's a good.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I forgot about that one.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
You've got your juggling so many hats, Mark, do you.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Sleep, yes, occasionally, you must be all over the place.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky, and
I've got a team that's been med the entire two
years and and I could not do them them do
it without them, And they're they're right behind me the
whole time, and they deserve huge recognition. And I've and
and great chief executives and and you know, so you know,
I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling and it
makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to
(18:31):
think po lift out there. We've got police, we've got friction,
we've got a gifted community. If yeah, I mean that
they're all just they're all fantastic agencies. And you know,
I had the privilege of having a front row seats
seen the ten TI thousands of positive actions. I get
reports every week of the outstanding work that our friction
(18:52):
topics is still at mounted in prison a couple of
weeks ago, they saved the life of the prisoner. Like
I said, I've been at the recently at the police
awards ceremonies, and it's and and and Sadly, the only
time that you often hear about brichand to police are
any of these is when there's a negative story I'm
running in the media, and that's life and I sit that.
But but you know what, there's just some they do
(19:14):
so much positive stuff for us in the country, and
I just think we should be so thankful that the
farm that we've got them.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or
do you even have time to think that far ahead?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
No? Not, not really because there is so much going on.
They're still we're still doing some major reforms. You know.
I think we'll start thinking about the election as we're
move into next year. But no, right at the moment,
especially with the emergency management I'll be down to South
Island for last week, you know, with the response and
the recovery is just supported with the response with right
in the middle of it.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Thanks for joining us, Mark.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Say thank you, Chelsea, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
The Front Page is produced by Jane Ye.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in to Morrow for another
look behind the headlines.
Kyota at Chelsea Daniels here, host of the Front Page.
We're taking away breakover summer, but to help build the gap,
we're re issuing some of our most significant episodes of
twenty twenty five on behalf of the Front Page team.
Thanks for listening and we look forward to being back
with you on January twelfth, twenty twenty six. Just a
quick note, this interview with Mark Mitchell was recorded prior
(00:41):
to the Tongedito fire. Kyota, I'm Chelsea Daniels and this
is The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the
New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the government's promise
(01:02):
to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly clear from
the get go that his primary goal is to make
New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate. He
holds five portfolios, Police correct Actions, Emergency Management and Recovery,
Ethnic communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an
(01:26):
MP with so many hats feel about how his government
has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page,
Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and communities. So,
first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable whereabouts are you?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm a marrying you Bay Beach, Marrying.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You Bay Beach and whereabouts? Just right on the beach there.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach and this is
the beach that this is the when I was a kid.
This is where I grew up in that surf plub.
I don't know if you can see the surf club. Yeah, yeah,
that was my surf club. So it's not actually my
electric because I ran at a time. I was trying
to get back up to my pitch, but I ran
out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit
down of Marrying You Bay Beach and do the podcast
(02:13):
and Chelsea down there.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So Mark, we've seen a skin this year at the
top of the police chain.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
There's no denying that.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Are you confident the public still has trust in the
New Zealand Police.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New
Zealand Police because without a doubt we have got a
world class police force and the size of the organization
that we have, there's always going to be the odd
rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers
are out there every day, you know, with teens of
thousands of pocket of actions protecting and supporting their communities,
(02:50):
the commutes that they serve. And I'd just like to
say Chelsea that this week I've been to two police
awards ceremonies and probably seventy five percent of the awards
that I see handed out to police officers that have
put themselves in danger saved the lives of members of
the public. When you see bad behavior from a police officer,
(03:11):
there's no one feels it more deeply than those thousands
of both our sworn and non sworn staff that are
out there she holding to and the values and ideals
of our New Zealand police. None feels are more deeply
than them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten if
we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the rotten
apples nearly got the top police job ally was in
contention for the top police job in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I
acknowledge that. All I'd say is that as the incoming
Police Minister, there were quite a few issues that I
had to view with and one of them was this
case and I'm sorry that I can't talk to the
detail on a Chelsea, but it's actually the case although
there has been a guilty plea put in that's still
(04:02):
before the courts for seniencings. Though I can't talk to
the case directly.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime
since June twenty twenty four to May this year. The
fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent
of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government
do more to curb alcohol related crime?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah? I think that. You know, alcohol and drugs have
always been a huge degravating factor in terms of the
perpetration of violent crime. Education has to continue to be
a big part of that. You know. The police are
obviously run very effective road safety programs to make our
roads safe. You know, we've driven down the rates of
(04:53):
drunk driving significantly. And there's always differently, there's different things
that police are looking at doing and providing device Who's
justice officials in terms of how we can continue to
make change. Is that balance up people's right, the responsible
drinkers to have access to alcohol and be able to
enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible and
(05:15):
public safety.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
New Zealand's prison population where is hitting record highs?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Look, I think any society would agree that we don't
want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd
love to have everyone that lives in our societies and
our communities respect one another and not hurt or perpetrate
violent crime against the people in society that are lawabiding.
But unfortunately, as long as humans have been roaming this earth,
that hasn't been the case. And so we've been very
(05:45):
clear as the end up in government that we are
prioritizing public safety that if we have people in our society,
in our communities that don't want to stick to the laws,
they want to hurt people, then you know they are
going to end up and they keep assisted in that
sort of behavior, then they are going to end up
in prison. And our correction is still things because we
want law of bodies to feel safe.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on
crime is actually working.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that
we sent into a rejuction and victimizations. We've already met that,
in fact exceeded that. And of course you'd have to
look at our response as a government, which includes increased
We've made sentencing much toper. We have reduced the discounts
that were allowed from you know, you've seen discounts of
(06:33):
seventy eighty percent. We get that at forty percent. And
like I said, we've just as an incoming government, we
have and as the three parties as a coalition, as
a coalition government, have been very clear that we are
prioritizing public safety.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
What if it's working too well.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, we've already hit the population estimates within about
ten nine hundred behind bars. Will there be more money
in the kiddy next year to address how many people
are actually going to prison?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, so as of yesterday it is about ten eight
hundred in the prison muster and directions to an outstanding
job that is literally a daily event. And to make
sure that you know that we're that everyone is in
the right place and that we're dealing with capacity and riches,
doing outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to
invest into public safety? Absolutely, because although there is a cost,
(07:25):
of course in incarcerating people and having them in the
correction system. There is a much greater human cost and
even economic costs to have them out in society, creating
with victims and the have it that they create, and
the trail of tears that are often sitting behind that
behavior and that from offending.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Well, critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does
not actually reduce reoffending rates.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
How would you respond to.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
That, Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending
rates is when those offenders genuinely want to change. They
genuinely want to embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want
to embrace and see what opportunity just apport for them
in this country. They genuinely want to embrace the training
that is offered and the support that's offered them to
come back and reintegrate with society in a positive way. Ultimately,
(08:14):
that is how your drive changes, each individual wanting to
make those changes in their lives and not wanting to
make bad decisions and make all the excuses for those
bad decisions. All that we can do is a country
in the state is provide them with the mechanism to
be able to do that. And I know that we've
got a big focus. In fact, we put seventy million
dollars additional money into rehabilitation programs in our correction services
(08:37):
so that we give them the ability of the best
fighting charts and when they do come out, they do
make good decisions. But ultimately, Chelsea, it comes to under
personal responsibility. It comes down to each one of those
individuals wanting to make change and until they do, until
they actually want to make change. In my view and
my opinion and my experience, you can throw all the goodwill,
all the programs and all the investment you want at
(08:59):
those people. They will not change until they want to.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
As I said before, gangs are not nice people. Minister
man Sure, Minister Goldsmith and I campaign on cracking down
on gangs and making their life as uncomfortable as possible,
and that is exactly why we have passed the laws.
We have to ban all gang patches and insignia in
public places to empower the police to stop criminal gangs
from associating and communicating with each other, enabling the courts
(09:29):
to issue non consulting orders to gang members, and we're
ensuring that greater weight as given to gang membership at
sentencing as well, enabling the courts to enact even more
severe punishments.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I remember when you first became police minister, you actually
offered up you know, you were offering up people your
personal phone number to see you know, if you do
want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you.
Has anyone taken you up on that offer?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
No, I haven't had any. Yes, you're right that I
have headed out my number two gang members that have
indicated to me that they do want to lead change,
they do want to make change, especially those gang members
with families. So that we've because you know, the most
important thing we can do is break that into generational
gang membership. The impacts so negatively on the children that
are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of
(10:18):
course someone stand by always to help those that genuinely
want to make change, especially those with children. But the
flip side of it is is policemenner. So I've also
been very clear that to help affect that change, if
we have to make it very difficult to be a
game member in New Zealan, to be part of organized crime,
to be part of a group that inflicts a massive
disproportionate with them out of palm on our communities. We're
(10:41):
going to continue to do that as well, and the
police are being very effective of doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback.
I've just come from a public meeting right now where
the feedback and the public's been extremely positive. And the
frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers
so they can reassert themselves and the public can see
that our police are controlling the streets and not be
in that awful position that we were three years ago
(11:10):
where the gangs we're we're controlling the streets where they're
coming out and taking over the public places, intimidating them
from the public, taking over our provincial towns where they
were shutting down public rights in the public at pittstonchol
You haven't seen here that in the last two years
because the police have been so effective and putting together
gain disruption units and making sure that they're proactive and
(11:32):
using the new gang legislation. You know, it's a good
thing that people don't see gag pictures around anymore because
they're quite silly, designed to scier and in terminates people.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for
Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that
you probably haven't been asked about as often as your
your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
But in that capacity you condemned.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
The Destiny Church march against foreign religions that was back
in June. It's pretty bone chilling to see such a
display in New Zealand and on our streets here. Do
you think what's happening overseas? And I'm thinking of those
images of you know, Nazis walking down streets in Melbourne,
for example. Do you think that's spilling over slowly to
(12:20):
New Zealand and are you worried?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Well, I'm working really hard as Minister of Ethnic Community
to fortify itself as a company. And we've got you know,
we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders
in every single one of our ethnic communities and our
faith and religious leaders that completely bind to the fact
that we should always protect what is so fundamentally important
(12:43):
to democracy, and that is the freedom protest and the
freedom of speech. But we can do that in a
peaceful and tolerant way. And a big part of what
I've been doing is Minister of Ethnic Communities. It's working
across all of our communities, all of our faith leaders,
reinforcing that message around social conhesion, making sure that we
don't see that type of violence start to wash up
(13:04):
on our own shores here in New Zealand. Be mindful
of the fact that we will see that we've seen
so much conflict and the vision around the world at
the moment that we've got to work extra hard and
making sure that if we have a community in our
and how if we have a community in New Zealand
that feels unsafe or it's fearful, that we reaped support
around them and do what we can to make sure
(13:26):
that we deal.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
With that as part of this portfolio. And I guess
your role as Police Minister as well. Have you received
any advice from your Australian counterparts about what the stark rise.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
In this kind of thing happening in Victoria?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
No, I haven't, but we can all see it and
I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out
there a month ago with our permissioner for the for
the service of the plan. Victorian police officers out there,
but you can see it out of the streets, and
of course yes I came out and condemned Brian Tommockey
and the Destiny persh because they have a right to
(14:01):
get out there and the freedom to focus like everyone does.
But that turned into really what everyone considered was over violence.
When you start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and
stabbing them, that scares people. That is actually frightening, and
so they should actually reflect on the way that they
(14:22):
are carrying out those protests. So that applies to any
group in New Zealand. There's a way to be a
out the protest to get your messapacity from without resorting
this sort of over violent x and in the ripping
and burning the flags and trying to scare people.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed.
For example, people who you know say you should kill
Chelsea Daniels. She's a very bad person and she deserves it.
You probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's
all right now. That would be wrong and it's a
horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are legitimate
(15:05):
restrictions on speech, but what's not a legitimate restriction on
speech is saying you can't say that because it's hateful
or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings, because
as soon as you give someone in society the power
to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Do you think there needs to be better laws in
place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech
and what determines hate speech.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Perhaps because that's a really tricky area, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's
a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the
reality of it is is that we must protect the
freedom to the freet to a speech in this country
because the minute you try to start to unfringe on that,
where do you start? When he's gone and we all
have the right to exercise our free speech. Destiny Church
(16:00):
chose to exercise their right pre speech in the way
that they did, and I chose to exercise my right
pre speech by coming out condemning what they did.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolios
while in governments so far?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Ah, Look, that's a really good question. Look, I'm very
proud of the work that we're doing in the way
that our police force has responded to our new set
of priorities when we came into government. I just think
the work they're doing, it's quite still the outstanding, the
anecdotal feedback I get from the public, the results that
we've seen starting to flow through. You know, I'm just
so proud of what they're doing and what they're achieving.
(16:37):
Emergency management. You know, I've had nineteen local states emergencies
since I've big Minister. We are making fundamental change in
the way that we look at and approach these things.
We've had report after report after our national states of
emergency highlighting the issues that we need to change. We're
doing that. We've got an investment being coming through that
back the cabinet. We've got new legislation that will provide
(16:58):
us a solid a platform as a country who operates
from corrections. Look, without a doubt, I am so proud
of our correction Service. All of our officers that are
either in a directions facility or out in the community
doing community related corrections work with you know, up to
twenty five to thirty thousand people one time. That is
(17:21):
such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing with some
of the most violent and difficult people that we have
in society, and there's a tens of thousands of positive
actions every week. My big focus there is what simply
been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer Safety
is doing great work. They've launched two products in the
(17:42):
last months that two trials that are going that are
very effective. Expect to report back on one of those,
Sport and Wreck. You know, that's that's a good.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I forgot about that one.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
You've got your juggling so many hats, Mark, do you.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Sleep, yes, occasionally, you must be all over the place.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky, and
I've got a team that's been med the entire two
years and and I could not do them them do
it without them, And they're they're right behind me the
whole time, and they deserve huge recognition. And I've and
and great chief executives and and you know, so you know,
I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling and it
makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to
(18:31):
think po lift out there. We've got police, we've got friction,
we've got a gifted community. If yeah, I mean that
they're all just they're all fantastic agencies. And you know,
I had the privilege of having a front row seats
seen the ten TI thousands of positive actions. I get
reports every week of the outstanding work that our friction
(18:52):
topics is still at mounted in prison a couple of
weeks ago, they saved the life of the prisoner. Like
I said, I've been at the recently at the police
awards ceremonies, and it's and and and Sadly, the only
time that you often hear about brichand to police are
any of these is when there's a negative story I'm
running in the media, and that's life and I sit that.
But but you know what, there's just some they do
(19:14):
so much positive stuff for us in the country, and
I just think we should be so thankful that the
farm that we've got them.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or
do you even have time to think that far ahead?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
No? Not, not really because there is so much going on.
They're still we're still doing some major reforms. You know.
I think we'll start thinking about the election as we're
move into next year. But no, right at the moment,
especially with the emergency management I'll be down to South
Island for last week, you know, with the response and
the recovery is just supported with the response with right
in the middle of it.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Thanks for joining us, Mark.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Say thank you, Chelsea, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidherld dot co dot nz.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
The Front Page is produced by Jane Ye.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in to Morrow for another
look behind the headlines.
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