November 27, 2025 • 21 mins
It has been a tumultuous time since the collapse of the Du Val property development group.
It was August last year we saw police raid a Remuera property – leaving with a number of assets owned by Charlotte and Kenyon Clarke.
Since then it’s been a tsunami of court hearings, social media posts, and “he said she saids”.
On Monday, a new podcast called *The Fall of the House of Du Val launches on iHeartRadio – or wherever you get your podcasts.
But, today on The Front Page, host of the podcast, Business Desk’s Maria Slade is here to take us through the rise and fall of Du Val.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's been
a tumultuous time since the collapse of the Devle Property
Development Group. It was August last year we saw police
raid a rebueer a property, leaving with a number of
(00:26):
assets owned by Charlotte and Kenyon Clark. Since then, it's
been a tsunami of court hearings, social media posts and
he said, she said. On Monday, a new podcast called
The Fall of the House of Deval launches on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts. But today on the
Front Page, host of the podcast Business Desks, Maria Slade
(00:50):
is here with us to take us through the rise
and fall of Devas So, Marie, we often hear about
the collapse of property developers, I suppose, But what do
you think makes the Devil story so different?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
The big thing is that they're in statutory management and
a lot of kiwis won't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, I was about to say, roll it back a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
It's a very rarely used tool.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
The last time we saw it in this kind of
situation was with the collapse of the South Canterbury Finance Group,
and that was fifteen years ago, so it's not something
that happens on the regular and there's a lot of
professionals out there, accountants, lawyers, who've never seen it in
their careers. You know, it's like a unicorn. So this
is a process where the government steps in effectually and
(01:36):
takes over a business and they do so because there's
a very complex situation. A lot of people have been affected,
and there's potential crimes that may have been committed, and
so they see fit to step in and run the business.
And it's such a big deal that the Governor General
has to sign off on it. So this is what
happened with Duval. And this was an ordinary townhouse apartment
(01:58):
developer in South Ork, so not something that you'd think
would attract a lot of attention under normal circumstances, but
it was a very complex group. There are seventy entities
that are in statue management and there's this whole process
now going through where PwC, one of the big four
accounting firms, they're in charge, so they are unraveling the
(02:20):
whole Juval group in a parallel kind of thing, that's
going on is the Financial Markets Authority, who's our financial
market's watchdog, the regulator. They are investigating duval and we
don't know the outcome of that process yet, so.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
It's very complex.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Two hundred and sixty eight million dollars lost is the
estimate at the moment. A lot of investors who've lost
money tradees that are out of pocket, the IDs out
of pocket. So there's a lot of things to unravel
about what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, I was going to say, I mean in terms
of victims or even just people that it involves and touches.
Have we any idea how many people that involves.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
We know there's something like one hundred and thirty four investors,
so it's actually not a big number, but they have
lost the better part of sixty four million. Oh wow,
so that's quite a bit of money. PwC and their
latest report they say that they won't see most of
that money ever. Again, there's maybe about four or five
million that will be recovered. So yeah, so those people
are really out of pocket. But perhaps more importantly, it's
(03:19):
the way this group was structured, and they were not
the only ones. What happened was we saw a new
breed of property developers and investment companies that came through
because we had this massive property boom as we know
during COVID, and they were making the most of kind
of an exclusion in the law. So they are offering
what's known as wholesale investments, which are unregulated. So that's
(03:41):
not like your term deposit. You go down the bank
and you know the bank has to abide by all
sorts of disclosure requirements and regulations.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Make sure you can get the money back.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Absolutely, wholesale investments are in a category of their own
and they're really meant for people who can stand to
take the risk. And there's two ways you can become
a wholesale investor as you're wealthy and there's a set
of wealth criteria, or you can be an eligible investor,
and that's when an accountant or a lawyer or a
financial planner signs off a certificate for you that says, yep,
(04:11):
you know what you're doing, You've got enough experience. And
so this new kind of sector of property investment companies
was making the most of that exclusion, and the Financial
Markets Authority was really concerned they that it was being
abused and these investments were being offered to people that
it was inappropriate for them. They were just ordinary mums
and dads and they shouldn't have been taking on such
(04:31):
high risk investments. And so the jury is out as
to whether that happened, but the FMA has taken a
bit of action regarding these activities. And the thing is
these products are advertised very widely on Facebook, on Instagram
and newspapers, so it's not really they're sort of advertising
them like a consumer product, like an ordinary kind of thing,
(04:53):
when really they're meant for a specific niche of very
wealthy people who know what they're getting into kind of things.
That's that's one of the big concerns about the environment
that Duval rose up in.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, so at the end of all this, or whenever
that may be, we might see some new regulations.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, it doesn't appear to be any political will for that.
And there are some people, a lot of people actually,
who argue that we need this regime because it's a
way for up and coming small businesses to raise money
without all the regulation. Because if they've got to go
through a retail offer, the documentation is out of this world,
and it is pretty difficult if you're just a high
(05:30):
growth startup. For example, you've got a big idea, you
need to raise some money. There are some well healed
people out there who are willing to back you. If
you've got to go through all the regulation of a
retail offer, it would really slow you down.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
And so that's the idea.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
But it's just that it's supposed to be, as I say,
this small category of high net worth people who use
this regime, and an actual fact, what's happened as it
seems to have spread out to a much wider group
of kiwis and you know, some of them have been
caught by it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Talk me it, talk to me about their directors or
the clerks, right, they're quite flashy.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Ah, yeah, the clerks became sort of quite characters, I
guess in the business world. Again, you've got to remember
that this is a South Auckland townhouse and apartment developers,
so you know, pretty run of the mill really. But
the clerks themselves were not run of the mill. They
were prolific self promoters. They made a reality TV series
about themselves.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
It was even a trailer for that.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
There certainly was. Yes, we've never seen the actual series.
The Saturtary management happened, and it's not quite clear what
actually happened to that reality TV series, but I understand
it does exist.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
My name is Kenyan Clark. I've been developing properly now
for close to twenty seven years. I've been incredibly privileged
to work alongside my wife Charlotte.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
At home, Keingyan is a big Caudleigh bear. When it
comes to the children at work, Kenyan is like a
bull and a China store.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So it's never aired, but they were running the Kenyon
Clark was running property master classes. Charlotte Clark was making
videos online about how to invest in property. They sponsored
the Blues Rugby franchise. They had a charitable foundation. They
gave Christmas gift baskets to children underprivileged families. So you know,
(07:25):
they were really out there, sort of loud and proud,
and that was kind of part of the marketing of
Duval because they were wanting to sell houses off the
plans for one thing. You know, a lot of property
developers do that. They have to sell a certain amount
of houses off the plans before they can get a
project underway, so that's not uncommon. But they were sort
of really out there hard selling and then on the
(07:47):
other side, they were wanting this investment that we were
just talking about. They were having to bring an investment
from investors into their funds to try and you know,
bankroll effectively the projects that they were trying to get
off the ground.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And in terms of buying off of plans you met
and you mentioned that yet that obviously happens. I would
be terrified personally, but I also don't play the pokes
or anything, so because I've just got the worst luck
in the world. What was different do you think with
their plans versus I mean, have any of their houses
been built?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yes, they have done some developments, definitely. The most notable
is the Lakewood Plaza Tower, which Aucklanders would know because
it's a big, tall, fifteen story apartment tower just by
the Manico City Interchange and it's the only big, tall
apartment building.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
There, so it's kind of a bit out of place.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's a bit of a landmark, and that was their
flagship development and that probably did give them quite a
bit of credibility. People probably thought, well, if they can
do that building, you know that they must be all well,
that would give me a second thought.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, they did have a lot of problems with it.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
It was two years late.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
They ended up in a huge, big dispute with the
construction company that they'd partnered with that that ended up
in a six point six million dollar settlement which has
still not been paid. And then there was a water
pipe that burst on the eleventh floor and flooded the building,
creating huge damage which took quite a long time to remedy.
I think it's only recently been fully remedied. Okay, I'm
(09:18):
back to being terrified. Yeah, So there were a lot
of problems with that, with that apartment building, but they
did do others that There was the Mountain Vsera State
in Marngari, which is a I think it's about one
hundred and eighty odd units that is just about finished.
It's been dragging on for an awful long time, but PwC,
the statutory managers, have been finishing off the projects and
(09:39):
that one st to be finished probably beginning the next year.
And there were some others as well. But then there
were others that such as the Verge apartments in Mount Wellington.
Again people might know them because you would see them
as you go down the Southern Motorway. Is these twin
tower apartments that are unfinished. They're sort of a skeleton
kind of thing. And again, PwC. I'm busy trying to
(10:01):
sell that at the moment. So you know, they did
do some developments, so there wasn't anything particularly different about
them in that regard. But what kind of happened at
that time twenty twenty twenty twenty one, as we had
this massive property boom, As we know, property prices went
up this ridiculous fifty percent, and there are a whole
set of reasons for that. But then they came crashing
(10:24):
down again. And so if you had bought a house
off the plans during that time, say you had paid
agreed to pay eight hundred grand for a townhouse, and
then suddenly the property market crashes, you have to go
and settle on that property. It might only be worth
seven hundred or six fifty, And so the bank says,
hang on a minute, we are not going to lend
you eight hundred or you know, maybe whatever your deposit
(10:47):
was the equivalent of that, because it's not worth that now.
And so you were stuck. You might have put down
a five percent deposit or a ten percent deposit on
that property you've got to then find the rest to
pay for a property that is now no longer worth that.
So that's what happened to quite a few people around
the country at that time when we had this massive
spike up and then a big full.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
What's the status of the Duval group at the moment.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It's still in statutory management. That process will go on
for quite some time. They're gradually working their way through it.
They're gradually selling off the assets that there were there.
What the end point will be we don't know, because
as we know, the Financial Markets Authority is still investigating Duval.
That's a parallel process. We don't know where they're at
(11:34):
with that. No charges have been laid yet, so that was.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Going to be my next question.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, typically no charges have been laid against Duval or
the clerks regarding the collapse, and we don't know how
that process will play out yet. The watchdog obviously keeps
its cards very close to its chest. They don't tell us,
so we don't know. Are they accused of anything not yet. No, No,
there have been no charge.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Just the presence of investigations at the moment is what
makes this kind of like people scratch their heads.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Well, it was quite a dramatic sort of start, I
guess because you may have read in the news about
how they raided their house in August twenty twenty four.
You know, we've never seen scenes like it. Basically, this
was a lovely house in leafy Victoria Avenue and Revenue
in rimu Era, and next minute, you know, you've got
the FMA and flack jackets supported by police, raiding the
(12:29):
property first thing on a Friday morning and coming out
with gun cases. You know, the media were tipped off
by locals and turned up to sort of see these
scenes of all this kind of thing going on.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
So it's unprecedented.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And yeah, so I guess that they kind of hit
the headlines for that as well. And their passports have
been seized, they're not allowed to leave the country and
all their assets have been seized while this process goes through.
So it's got a way to play out yet.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And in terms of I mean, they've not really gone
to ground though, have they.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
No, you couldn't say that.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
The Clerks have always been pretty good at promoting themselves
and they're fairly active on social media. They have you know,
they have their supporters and they have their say on
social media, so that's fair enough. And yeah, I mean,
as I say, we just don't know where this is
going to finish yet.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So of course since August last year, we've seen a
lot of coverage of the clerks and everything they're in
and out of court. They've even got the services of
high profile defense lawyer Ron Mansfield as well. What's all
the legal activity about if no charges have been laid.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
There's been quite a process to go through, and one
of the big things was the asset Preservation order as
it's called. So that was the order that the FMA
got seizing the clerk's assets and the assets of the
Duvile business. So they needed to do that in order
to kick out the process that they got it well,
it gets a wee bit technical, but they got it
(13:59):
under what was order without notice basis, which basically means
they kind of charged into the court, the court said
y's okay, and then the clerks had to have their say,
so that is an on notice order and so that
hearing didn't happen until June because there was a lot
of toing and throwing. The clerks didn't have legal representation,
and it took a while for that process to work
(14:20):
its way through. That then did happen. The asset preservation
order was reconfirmed and so everything status quo remains and
if the authorities continue to do their thing, but that
had to happen first the clerks contested it. They have
also gone to quite long lengths to have all the
(14:40):
details surrounding why those orders remain in place suppressed, so
we can't talk.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
About any of that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
They are also fighting PwC because as the satutary managers,
they want to speak to them. They want the clerks
to come in for an interview, and they actually gained
a court order that the clerks have to do that,
but the clerks are fighting that as well.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
There was actually so just.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Appealing, like just appeal upon appeal.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yes, there's a lot of appealing going on, and there
was an appeal court hearing just a few weeks ago
of the order that they should front up to PwC
for an interview. They have been interviewed by the FMA
to be clear that they can't really avoid that. But yeah,
they are resistant going in to see pw C at
this point in time. So we're waiting on the Court
(15:25):
of Appeals ruling on that. So, yeah, there's a lot
of legal tooing and throwing going on.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Why did you decide to do this investigation in this
podcast series.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I've been covering Duval since twenty twenty one, and I've
crossed the woods with the clerks quite a few times.
They are quite combative, and they were very unhappy about
a column that I wrote way back in twenty twenty
one at where I talked about this new breed of
property developer that had sprung up, making the use of
this eligible investor exclusion and just sort of pointing out that,
(15:57):
you know, possibly there's a few problems with this, which
you know, the was already onto and they didn't like it,
and they tried to well they did so my employer
at the time, the NBR National Business Review.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
The matter was settled in the end.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
The column remains online, but that kind of kicked things
off and so and it wasn't just me, there were
lots of other business journalists looking into them as well,
and so we have continued to cover them, and as
you say, they're just such characters.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
They sort of.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Put themselves out there all the things that they did,
and so we've just kept on following the story. And
it sort of became clear that something was going to happen,
but we didn't realize it would be quite as dramatic
as it was. We didn't think the government was going
to bring out the big guns and literally literally and
you know our point statutory managers. So that was one
out of the box. But yes, it's been a fascinating
(16:45):
story and like we say, not over yet.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I believe it's important to ask yourself, how good can
life get if I was free. I'm an advocate for
your freedom. I'm an advocate for my family's breedom. The
poverty cycle is generational, and so is the cycle of
actually built in generational wealth. I encourage you to be
the first one in your family to make it out
(17:14):
of the matrix and to lead the way for future generations.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So they haven't been charged with anything. We've seen them
in an out of court though with Ron Mansfield.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
There have been allegations though, and you've spoken to some
people behind those allegations right for the podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yes, we've spoken to investors, a former employee, and yeah,
they have said a lot of things about the way
Duval operated. And it's pretty interesting because it's kind of
like the people who were at the coal Face talking
about how the group operated, and they have made a
certain set of claims about, you know, how things were done.
We've put all this to the Clerks and so far
(17:52):
they have declined to respond to us. But I think
listeners will find it pretty interesting, just as I say,
hearing from the cold face the inside track of how
this sort of pretty out there group operated and what
the effect has been on some of those people who've
been kind of left high and dry.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Have the Clerks participated in interviews for the.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Podcast, No, they haven't.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
We've made quite a few offers to them, you know,
and we would love to talk to them, We really would,
and the offer remains open, but at this point they've
declined other than some statements that Kenyan Clark has voluntarily
given to us, But no, he has declined to sit
down for an interview with the podcast. We are still
hoping that he will, because, yeah, we really would like
(18:36):
to hear their side of the story. It's a fascinating tale.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, and it's not all said and done as well.
The episodes are being released.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Weekly, yes, so we've got our first two episodes coming
out on Monday the first, and then there'll be an
episode a week for the following three weeks. But we
really do hope this isn't the end of the story.
We would like to speak to the clerks, and.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
There's plenty of time for them to come forward and
speak to you.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There is there is, so you know we do have
that happens.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I'd come and speak to you. So you mentioned the
series out obviously December first, the first two episodes, I
cannot wait. And where can you find them?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
All the usual places you get your podcasts, and obviously
there will be links on the Herald site and business desk,
and we had some support from the Brian Gaynor Investigative
Journalism for this, so it will be free to anyone
who wants to have a listen. So people may know
that Brian Gaynor was an investment guy who used to
write for The Herald and he founded Milford Asset Management
(19:34):
and he was really big on investigative journalism and so
as part of his legacy, there is this fund there
that journalists can apply to for projects, and so we
applied for this one and they agreed because one of
the really important things we're trying to do with it
is sort of throw it forward and look at why
can we keep getting attracted to these kind of maybe
(19:55):
fringe property schemes because it's not the first we've seen
they you know, they just keep popping up, really and
you know a lot of people are saying New Zealand
just need to get over this property thing. You know,
the property market is not going to look in the
next few years how it has looked over the past
maybe thirty years. The environment has changed, and we need
(20:15):
to get out of this mindset that, you know, bricks
and water are the only thing you should put your
money into and become a bit more mature in the
way we invest. And the gain of Fund was really
interested in trying to help maybe educate KEI is a
bit better.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Nice. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Maria.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enziherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who was also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts and Tune
(20:56):
in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.
Kyoda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's been
a tumultuous time since the collapse of the Devle Property
Development Group. It was August last year we saw police
raid a rebueer a property, leaving with a number of
(00:26):
assets owned by Charlotte and Kenyon Clark. Since then, it's
been a tsunami of court hearings, social media posts and
he said, she said. On Monday, a new podcast called
The Fall of the House of Deval launches on iHeartRadio
or wherever you get your podcasts. But today on the
Front Page, host of the podcast Business Desks, Maria Slade
(00:50):
is here with us to take us through the rise
and fall of Devas So, Marie, we often hear about
the collapse of property developers, I suppose, But what do
you think makes the Devil story so different?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
The big thing is that they're in statutory management and
a lot of kiwis won't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, I was about to say, roll it back a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
It's a very rarely used tool.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
The last time we saw it in this kind of
situation was with the collapse of the South Canterbury Finance Group,
and that was fifteen years ago, so it's not something
that happens on the regular and there's a lot of
professionals out there, accountants, lawyers, who've never seen it in
their careers. You know, it's like a unicorn. So this
is a process where the government steps in effectually and
(01:36):
takes over a business and they do so because there's
a very complex situation. A lot of people have been affected,
and there's potential crimes that may have been committed, and
so they see fit to step in and run the business.
And it's such a big deal that the Governor General
has to sign off on it. So this is what
happened with Duval. And this was an ordinary townhouse apartment
(01:58):
developer in South Ork, so not something that you'd think
would attract a lot of attention under normal circumstances, but
it was a very complex group. There are seventy entities
that are in statue management and there's this whole process
now going through where PwC, one of the big four
accounting firms, they're in charge, so they are unraveling the
(02:20):
whole Juval group in a parallel kind of thing, that's
going on is the Financial Markets Authority, who's our financial
market's watchdog, the regulator. They are investigating duval and we
don't know the outcome of that process yet, so.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
It's very complex.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Two hundred and sixty eight million dollars lost is the
estimate at the moment. A lot of investors who've lost
money tradees that are out of pocket, the IDs out
of pocket. So there's a lot of things to unravel
about what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, I was going to say, I mean in terms
of victims or even just people that it involves and touches.
Have we any idea how many people that involves.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
We know there's something like one hundred and thirty four investors,
so it's actually not a big number, but they have
lost the better part of sixty four million. Oh wow,
so that's quite a bit of money. PwC and their
latest report they say that they won't see most of
that money ever. Again, there's maybe about four or five
million that will be recovered. So yeah, so those people
are really out of pocket. But perhaps more importantly, it's
(03:19):
the way this group was structured, and they were not
the only ones. What happened was we saw a new
breed of property developers and investment companies that came through
because we had this massive property boom as we know
during COVID, and they were making the most of kind
of an exclusion in the law. So they are offering
what's known as wholesale investments, which are unregulated. So that's
(03:41):
not like your term deposit. You go down the bank
and you know the bank has to abide by all
sorts of disclosure requirements and regulations.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Make sure you can get the money back.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Absolutely, wholesale investments are in a category of their own
and they're really meant for people who can stand to
take the risk. And there's two ways you can become
a wholesale investor as you're wealthy and there's a set
of wealth criteria, or you can be an eligible investor,
and that's when an accountant or a lawyer or a
financial planner signs off a certificate for you that says, yep,
(04:11):
you know what you're doing, You've got enough experience. And
so this new kind of sector of property investment companies
was making the most of that exclusion, and the Financial
Markets Authority was really concerned they that it was being
abused and these investments were being offered to people that
it was inappropriate for them. They were just ordinary mums
and dads and they shouldn't have been taking on such
(04:31):
high risk investments. And so the jury is out as
to whether that happened, but the FMA has taken a
bit of action regarding these activities. And the thing is
these products are advertised very widely on Facebook, on Instagram
and newspapers, so it's not really they're sort of advertising
them like a consumer product, like an ordinary kind of thing,
(04:53):
when really they're meant for a specific niche of very
wealthy people who know what they're getting into kind of things.
That's that's one of the big concerns about the environment
that Duval rose up in.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, so at the end of all this, or whenever
that may be, we might see some new regulations.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, it doesn't appear to be any political will for that.
And there are some people, a lot of people actually,
who argue that we need this regime because it's a
way for up and coming small businesses to raise money
without all the regulation. Because if they've got to go
through a retail offer, the documentation is out of this world,
and it is pretty difficult if you're just a high
(05:30):
growth startup. For example, you've got a big idea, you
need to raise some money. There are some well healed
people out there who are willing to back you. If
you've got to go through all the regulation of a
retail offer, it would really slow you down.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
And so that's the idea.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
But it's just that it's supposed to be, as I say,
this small category of high net worth people who use
this regime, and an actual fact, what's happened as it
seems to have spread out to a much wider group
of kiwis and you know, some of them have been
caught by it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Talk me it, talk to me about their directors or
the clerks, right, they're quite flashy.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Ah, yeah, the clerks became sort of quite characters, I
guess in the business world. Again, you've got to remember
that this is a South Auckland townhouse and apartment developers,
so you know, pretty run of the mill really. But
the clerks themselves were not run of the mill. They
were prolific self promoters. They made a reality TV series
about themselves.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
It was even a trailer for that.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
There certainly was. Yes, we've never seen the actual series.
The Saturtary management happened, and it's not quite clear what
actually happened to that reality TV series, but I understand
it does exist.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
My name is Kenyan Clark. I've been developing properly now
for close to twenty seven years. I've been incredibly privileged
to work alongside my wife Charlotte.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
At home, Keingyan is a big Caudleigh bear. When it
comes to the children at work, Kenyan is like a
bull and a China store.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So it's never aired, but they were running the Kenyon
Clark was running property master classes. Charlotte Clark was making
videos online about how to invest in property. They sponsored
the Blues Rugby franchise. They had a charitable foundation. They
gave Christmas gift baskets to children underprivileged families. So you know,
(07:25):
they were really out there, sort of loud and proud,
and that was kind of part of the marketing of
Duval because they were wanting to sell houses off the
plans for one thing. You know, a lot of property
developers do that. They have to sell a certain amount
of houses off the plans before they can get a
project underway, so that's not uncommon. But they were sort
of really out there hard selling and then on the
(07:47):
other side, they were wanting this investment that we were
just talking about. They were having to bring an investment
from investors into their funds to try and you know,
bankroll effectively the projects that they were trying to get
off the ground.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
And in terms of buying off of plans you met
and you mentioned that yet that obviously happens. I would
be terrified personally, but I also don't play the pokes
or anything, so because I've just got the worst luck
in the world. What was different do you think with
their plans versus I mean, have any of their houses
been built?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yes, they have done some developments, definitely. The most notable
is the Lakewood Plaza Tower, which Aucklanders would know because
it's a big, tall, fifteen story apartment tower just by
the Manico City Interchange and it's the only big, tall
apartment building.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
There, so it's kind of a bit out of place.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's a bit of a landmark, and that was their
flagship development and that probably did give them quite a
bit of credibility. People probably thought, well, if they can
do that building, you know that they must be all well,
that would give me a second thought.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, they did have a lot of problems with it.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
It was two years late.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
They ended up in a huge, big dispute with the
construction company that they'd partnered with that that ended up
in a six point six million dollar settlement which has
still not been paid. And then there was a water
pipe that burst on the eleventh floor and flooded the building,
creating huge damage which took quite a long time to remedy.
I think it's only recently been fully remedied. Okay, I'm
(09:18):
back to being terrified. Yeah, So there were a lot
of problems with that, with that apartment building, but they
did do others that There was the Mountain Vsera State
in Marngari, which is a I think it's about one
hundred and eighty odd units that is just about finished.
It's been dragging on for an awful long time, but PwC,
the statutory managers, have been finishing off the projects and
(09:39):
that one st to be finished probably beginning the next year.
And there were some others as well. But then there
were others that such as the Verge apartments in Mount Wellington.
Again people might know them because you would see them
as you go down the Southern Motorway. Is these twin
tower apartments that are unfinished. They're sort of a skeleton
kind of thing. And again, PwC. I'm busy trying to
(10:01):
sell that at the moment. So you know, they did
do some developments, so there wasn't anything particularly different about
them in that regard. But what kind of happened at
that time twenty twenty twenty twenty one, as we had
this massive property boom, As we know, property prices went
up this ridiculous fifty percent, and there are a whole
set of reasons for that. But then they came crashing
(10:24):
down again. And so if you had bought a house
off the plans during that time, say you had paid
agreed to pay eight hundred grand for a townhouse, and
then suddenly the property market crashes, you have to go
and settle on that property. It might only be worth
seven hundred or six fifty, And so the bank says,
hang on a minute, we are not going to lend
you eight hundred or you know, maybe whatever your deposit
(10:47):
was the equivalent of that, because it's not worth that now.
And so you were stuck. You might have put down
a five percent deposit or a ten percent deposit on
that property you've got to then find the rest to
pay for a property that is now no longer worth that.
So that's what happened to quite a few people around
the country at that time when we had this massive
spike up and then a big full.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
What's the status of the Duval group at the moment.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
It's still in statutory management. That process will go on
for quite some time. They're gradually working their way through it.
They're gradually selling off the assets that there were there.
What the end point will be we don't know, because
as we know, the Financial Markets Authority is still investigating Duval.
That's a parallel process. We don't know where they're at
(11:34):
with that. No charges have been laid yet, so that was.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Going to be my next question.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, typically no charges have been laid against Duval or
the clerks regarding the collapse, and we don't know how
that process will play out yet. The watchdog obviously keeps
its cards very close to its chest. They don't tell us,
so we don't know. Are they accused of anything not yet. No, No,
there have been no charge.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Just the presence of investigations at the moment is what
makes this kind of like people scratch their heads.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Well, it was quite a dramatic sort of start, I
guess because you may have read in the news about
how they raided their house in August twenty twenty four.
You know, we've never seen scenes like it. Basically, this
was a lovely house in leafy Victoria Avenue and Revenue
in rimu Era, and next minute, you know, you've got
the FMA and flack jackets supported by police, raiding the
(12:29):
property first thing on a Friday morning and coming out
with gun cases. You know, the media were tipped off
by locals and turned up to sort of see these
scenes of all this kind of thing going on.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
So it's unprecedented.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And yeah, so I guess that they kind of hit
the headlines for that as well. And their passports have
been seized, they're not allowed to leave the country and
all their assets have been seized while this process goes through.
So it's got a way to play out yet.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And in terms of I mean, they've not really gone
to ground though, have they.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
No, you couldn't say that.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
The Clerks have always been pretty good at promoting themselves
and they're fairly active on social media. They have you know,
they have their supporters and they have their say on
social media, so that's fair enough. And yeah, I mean,
as I say, we just don't know where this is
going to finish yet.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So of course since August last year, we've seen a
lot of coverage of the clerks and everything they're in
and out of court. They've even got the services of
high profile defense lawyer Ron Mansfield as well. What's all
the legal activity about if no charges have been laid.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
There's been quite a process to go through, and one
of the big things was the asset Preservation order as
it's called. So that was the order that the FMA
got seizing the clerk's assets and the assets of the
Duvile business. So they needed to do that in order
to kick out the process that they got it well,
it gets a wee bit technical, but they got it
(13:59):
under what was order without notice basis, which basically means
they kind of charged into the court, the court said
y's okay, and then the clerks had to have their say,
so that is an on notice order and so that
hearing didn't happen until June because there was a lot
of toing and throwing. The clerks didn't have legal representation,
and it took a while for that process to work
(14:20):
its way through. That then did happen. The asset preservation
order was reconfirmed and so everything status quo remains and
if the authorities continue to do their thing, but that
had to happen first the clerks contested it. They have
also gone to quite long lengths to have all the
(14:40):
details surrounding why those orders remain in place suppressed, so
we can't talk.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
About any of that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
They are also fighting PwC because as the satutary managers,
they want to speak to them. They want the clerks
to come in for an interview, and they actually gained
a court order that the clerks have to do that,
but the clerks are fighting that as well.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
There was actually so just.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Appealing, like just appeal upon appeal.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yes, there's a lot of appealing going on, and there
was an appeal court hearing just a few weeks ago
of the order that they should front up to PwC
for an interview. They have been interviewed by the FMA
to be clear that they can't really avoid that. But yeah,
they are resistant going in to see pw C at
this point in time. So we're waiting on the Court
(15:25):
of Appeals ruling on that. So, yeah, there's a lot
of legal tooing and throwing going on.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Why did you decide to do this investigation in this
podcast series.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I've been covering Duval since twenty twenty one, and I've
crossed the woods with the clerks quite a few times.
They are quite combative, and they were very unhappy about
a column that I wrote way back in twenty twenty
one at where I talked about this new breed of
property developer that had sprung up, making the use of
this eligible investor exclusion and just sort of pointing out that,
(15:57):
you know, possibly there's a few problems with this, which
you know, the was already onto and they didn't like it,
and they tried to well they did so my employer
at the time, the NBR National Business Review.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
The matter was settled in the end.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
The column remains online, but that kind of kicked things
off and so and it wasn't just me, there were
lots of other business journalists looking into them as well,
and so we have continued to cover them, and as
you say, they're just such characters.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
They sort of.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Put themselves out there all the things that they did,
and so we've just kept on following the story. And
it sort of became clear that something was going to happen,
but we didn't realize it would be quite as dramatic
as it was. We didn't think the government was going
to bring out the big guns and literally literally and
you know our point statutory managers. So that was one
out of the box. But yes, it's been a fascinating
(16:45):
story and like we say, not over yet.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I believe it's important to ask yourself, how good can
life get if I was free. I'm an advocate for
your freedom. I'm an advocate for my family's breedom. The
poverty cycle is generational, and so is the cycle of
actually built in generational wealth. I encourage you to be
the first one in your family to make it out
(17:14):
of the matrix and to lead the way for future generations.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So they haven't been charged with anything. We've seen them
in an out of court though with Ron Mansfield.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
There have been allegations though, and you've spoken to some
people behind those allegations right for the podcast.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yes, we've spoken to investors, a former employee, and yeah,
they have said a lot of things about the way
Duval operated. And it's pretty interesting because it's kind of
like the people who were at the coal Face talking
about how the group operated, and they have made a
certain set of claims about, you know, how things were done.
We've put all this to the Clerks and so far
(17:52):
they have declined to respond to us. But I think
listeners will find it pretty interesting, just as I say,
hearing from the cold face the inside track of how
this sort of pretty out there group operated and what
the effect has been on some of those people who've
been kind of left high and dry.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Have the Clerks participated in interviews for the.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Podcast, No, they haven't.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
We've made quite a few offers to them, you know,
and we would love to talk to them, We really would,
and the offer remains open, but at this point they've
declined other than some statements that Kenyan Clark has voluntarily
given to us, But no, he has declined to sit
down for an interview with the podcast. We are still
hoping that he will, because, yeah, we really would like
(18:36):
to hear their side of the story. It's a fascinating tale.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, and it's not all said and done as well.
The episodes are being released.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Weekly, yes, so we've got our first two episodes coming
out on Monday the first, and then there'll be an
episode a week for the following three weeks. But we
really do hope this isn't the end of the story.
We would like to speak to the clerks, and.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
There's plenty of time for them to come forward and
speak to you.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There is there is, so you know we do have
that happens.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I'd come and speak to you. So you mentioned the
series out obviously December first, the first two episodes, I
cannot wait. And where can you find them?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
All the usual places you get your podcasts, and obviously
there will be links on the Herald site and business desk,
and we had some support from the Brian Gaynor Investigative
Journalism for this, so it will be free to anyone
who wants to have a listen. So people may know
that Brian Gaynor was an investment guy who used to
write for The Herald and he founded Milford Asset Management
(19:34):
and he was really big on investigative journalism and so
as part of his legacy, there is this fund there
that journalists can apply to for projects, and so we
applied for this one and they agreed because one of
the really important things we're trying to do with it
is sort of throw it forward and look at why
can we keep getting attracted to these kind of maybe
(19:55):
fringe property schemes because it's not the first we've seen
they you know, they just keep popping up, really and
you know a lot of people are saying New Zealand
just need to get over this property thing. You know,
the property market is not going to look in the
next few years how it has looked over the past
maybe thirty years. The environment has changed, and we need
(20:15):
to get out of this mindset that, you know, bricks
and water are the only thing you should put your
money into and become a bit more mature in the
way we invest. And the gain of Fund was really
interested in trying to help maybe educate KEI is a
bit better.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Nice. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Maria.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enziherld dot co dot enz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who was also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts and Tune
(20:56):
in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.
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