Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kyota. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The New
Zealand Herald. The race is on for the Tamaki Makoto
by election, sparked by the death of Tepati mali Mp
Takatai tash Kemp. The Maulti electorate covers central and southern
(00:28):
Auckland areas from the Waitakli Ranges to Buckland's Beach and
Wahigi Island. Voting begins today for overseas voters. Advanced voting
opens on August twenty fifth, and election day is set
for September sixth. Today on the front Page, Victoria University
of Wellington Associate Professor Lara Grieves is with us to
(00:49):
give us a rundown of what you need to know
about this sought after seat. First off, Lara, give us
some background of this electorate. I understand it was quite
hotly contested in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, so what we found last time around was the
Marii electorates were quite hotly and contested. It was a
really close race kind of across the board and really surprising,
not necessarily what a lot of political commentators as it
had expected. I remember early on on election night suddenly
looking up at the screens going wait, what to party
Mahari is like fundamentally back. And there were two electorates
(01:28):
that went down to the special votes, went down to
a recount, and ultimately there were I think forty two
votes in it for Tama Kimikoto with Party Marti flipping
the seat. So very close electorate one that kind of
people were then talking about penn Hannaday like will he
continued to contest it? Does this mean he's not maybe
leadership or ministerial material, you know, things are being read
(01:48):
into it here and there, And ultimately, yeah, really close race.
And just again like acknowledging the sadness of takutamiwan At
tash Kimp's passing and how the unexpected that was and yeah,
totally heart goes out to her father and her community
and how terrible that was. But yeah, a very set
of up and down events in this electorate over the
(02:09):
last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Who's in the running this time this time.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Around what we've seen as Pennie Hanna Day from Labor
is going to contest the seat. In terms of when
someone passes away an electorate. In a Madi electorate, you know,
you do have to think will there be a race,
will there be a contestation, Will the by election be
like a full by election that is contested. In this case,
Pena Hannadei has opted to contest a by election. You
(02:34):
could see reasons why he might not. To Party Mahrti
have had a selection contest. An odd Any Kuipitter, the
former broadcaster, is now running for to Party Mahty in
that electorate. So that's the main race that we're looking
at here is Labor versus to Party Mahdi. There are
a little there are a few other kind of minor
candidates and independents running around the edges, just trying to
(02:56):
really get a bit of a voice to their platform
and shot to the debates and do bits and pieces
and get some bot get some attention.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Do you think Labour's decision to put Piano Henee up
again kind of gives us any indication of what might
happen next year and what might their process be.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Well, yeah, I mean that's an interesting question because Farmaki
Macoto have a very young electorate. It's one of the
youngest electorates in the country in terms of the Auckland
Mardi population in the median age is like somewhere in
the twenties, you know it Compared to the rest of
the country, it's much younger. So having these two candidates
who are young but older than the population median in
(03:35):
that space is an interesting battle. First off. The second
thing for labor is labor now has to balance, you know,
do you keep the old guard, the people who had
ministerial positions in the Arduan government, the baggage they might
be associated, wouldn't that the kind of has to be
balanced with the experience that they have. So I mean
for labor, it is interesting because it does seem like
(03:58):
they haven't had that many retirements. It does seem like
laborable contests and the election with a lot of that
lineup of the ministers from the Ardurn years that are
still in there, do.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
You reckon this is a kind of testing ground to
see how those other ministers would fare from the Ardun AIRSA.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I'm not too sure about this electorate in this by election.
I think we have to be a bit careful to
not read too much into it because it's a fairly
straightforward by election. You know, a labor versus party Mahdi,
and ultimately it's like the Mahdi electorates are quite different
to the general electorates in terms of how they work,
in terms of the tea hunger, in terms of the
unspoken cultural norms and ways that people engage with them,
(04:38):
they're a bit different. So I think we're going to
be a bit careful about reading in this electorate. The
other thing, of course, is turnout will probably be quite low.
Turnout and buy elections is really low. People have to
re engage their brain, think about politics. Are they enrolled,
They've got to show up, they've got to go and vote,
they've got to felt the form, they've got to do
all the things. And it's outside of an election cycle.
(04:59):
So normally turnout as incredibly low. So we need to
be a bit careful to not read too much into
this by election, although you know we are only about
a year out from the election. Easy to do so.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Really, you would not have believed that a war went
on in South Auckland for that money, for that Tamachi
Marcoto seat. You would not believe how tough it was,
the different sides, how passionate people were, and people would
have thought that they would have been enemies forever, but
therefore knowing the tongue of ties them forever in the day.
(05:30):
And I think that's the difference between you know, with
Maori politics, we will always be tied by our tutor,
by our fucker puppa, and by our identity. And Penny
hen Nadi and Tashkeb couldn't have been any closer.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
How do Malti seats differ from general electorate seats? Do
you think in terms of that community engagement and voter turnout?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Well, different Malori writers have written about this over the
last yeah few decades at least, about how well the
Mardi electorates represent something different than the general electorates. So
people who run in the Mahdi electorates, people who vote
in the Marti electorates, people who you can test them.
People who represent the Mardi electorates are a bit different
(06:15):
to people who marty and the general electorates, to people
who choose to run in those general electorates. So generally
it's like, if you're going to run in those electorates,
you have a greater level of engagement with tikong Amari
today Amari like just Marti customing practices language, culture, ways
of doing things. That's been more something that you live
and breathe when you compare people who've been an MP
(06:38):
in a Maiti electorate to even Marty who've been in
a general electorate. So that's just part and parcel of it.
The other thing is is they're there like it's in
the name Marti electorate, like you're there to represent Mardy,
Like you have a slightly different mandate of the interests
of the kind of values that you're there to stand
for and represent, and that I mean that can be
quite tricky for people, say who are Marty in the
(06:58):
Labor Party. We've seen some struggle with that in the past,
especially around the foreshore and sea being controversy. But that
can be a bit tricky to balance those Marti electorate
representational interests with what your party wants. So you've kind
of got that tensional and that creates this mandate. So
we know for my research that Marty electorate voters tend
to be prouder of being Marty, tend to have a
(07:21):
lot of like engagement or culture, and tend to really
believe in the Madi electorates and their importance for representing
Mardi representing Marty people, ideas to treaty you know, Copapa
Mardi and bits and pieces like that. So they're very
the seats are very Mardy through and through and engaged
Marty ways of doing things in politics and kind of
(07:41):
ways of being in the world and thinking about all
of these issues. So there's that whole kind of cultural
base that is sitting behind the Mahdi electorates. And there's
such an interesting feature of representing like a specific indigenous
population and culture that it's it's interesting seeing other countries
now start to talk about them or think about, you know,
these reserved seats as well. So yeah, it's quite a
(08:02):
different rice, a different way of thinking about or doing politics.
I mean it's still Westminster politics, still Parliament at the
end of the day, but it's done a little bit differently.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
How significant is this seat when it comes to the
wider picture, I mean, Tamiki Makoto is quite a small
one in terms of the rest of the country. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
It's interesting because there's definitely arguments you can see for
where this by election, where this electorate could be something
that we could look at and say, hey, well, like
for example, if we see a huge labor landslide, right,
that will be something that we're probably going to go, wow,
that might mean that we see a Layo landslide next election,
or if we see Departi Marti increase their lead by heats,
(08:49):
we will all think of, oh, it could be this
could be that, it could be the other thing. Ultimately,
it is a by election and quite a specific part
of the country. We have to notice, well that for
many years now the right wing parties haven't run in
the seat, although National did run a candidate in the
last election, so it's just got a different party dynamic
(09:10):
as well. That's the other thing to kind of note.
So yeah, there's definitely things we could read into, but
generally it's just kind of its own standalone contest. The
other thing is that I'm not sure about, and I've
talked to different Mardi voters and the electorate about their
thoughts on this is yeah, rarely whether it feels right
to vote and to create it make it this contest stuff.
(09:32):
If someone who's passed on and what that means you're
respecting their legacy, there might be another thing that people
are thinking about in the voting book and thinking about
honoring Kent's legacy. Honoring to party Mardi and honoring their
continued presence in that scene. So it's pretty hard. There's
a lot going on there. I mean, there will be
things we read into it, but it's ultimately not like
a microcosm of the broader country in any way.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Why don't those more riot? I mean, your national, your act,
your news Zealand first, why don't they generally contest multi seats?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Well, went through this period of politics around the infamous
Dom Brash auto or speech to the early two thousands
that was really a kind of turning point for what
people were calling race relations at the time, or Marti
crime relations, or politics in this country.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
So let me begin by asking what sort of nation
do we want to build? Is it to be a
modern democratic society embodying the essential notion of one rule
for all in a single nation state, or is it
the racially divided nation with two sets of laws and
(10:44):
two standards of citizenship that the present labor government is
moving us steadily towards.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Around that time, I think it felt quite hypocritical for
national to be running in those seats when they also
one of them abolished. There was an early period in
nineteen ninety six when New Zealand First had won all
the electorates. So New Zealand First and the Marti sexts
that history as a whole other kind of hittle of fish,
can of worm, whatever, whole other episode, whole other episode.
(11:15):
But now they've New Zealand First attended to move away
from those seats and so acts. So if you think,
if you're a political party and you're saying, well, ethnicity,
you know, tatidity doesn't matter for this or that, then
running in those electorates doesn't really marry up well with
your ideology. So generally it's a case of both parties
saying we don't believe in these seats, we're not going
(11:38):
to run in them. National over the John Key years
and being government of the Marti Party kind of softened
on them a bit and didn't run for a while there,
but kind of weren't actively looking to abolish them. So
the whole party and the way they thought about the
Marti electorates changed this last time round. They ran free
candidates in the Marti electorates, So perhaps are understanding that
(12:02):
you know, an electorate race, an election, even if you're
not going to win, is an opportunity for you to.
So the rooster's right outside is.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
A rooster, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, you want me to try and take it away,
exciting it. So what National has kind of realized over
this past election is, you know, say you're going into
a seat, you're not going to win that seat, but
it's a good opportunity to really push your views, to
(12:33):
really argue from your position, to really show an alternative
to voters. And at the end of the day, you know,
in an MMP system, it all comes down to party vote.
So National has been running in these electorates. They've been
running some candidates and putting forward their arguments, their policies,
and perhaps more campaigning for the party vote, but using
it as an opportunity to expose their ideas to a
(12:54):
much wider range of voters. All of this is occurring
against this broader kind of demographic trend we're seeing of
They're basically being a higher proportion of the population being Marty.
By twenty forty, a further of the children in this
country will be of Marti descent. We're seeing in different
surveys that people are really proud to be Marty and
(13:14):
proud of Malti culture. Tongue, tid t Marty politics of
their nature. So running in the electorates and making relationships
with Marty is like a good investment in the future,
especially for National Is the center right party.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
What are the major policy issues or concerns for voters
in Tamiki Makodo right now.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, from what we've seen as we've see more continuation
of that cost of living, poverty and equality housing type theme,
so we know that all around the country. You know,
one of the big things in the media has been
you know, things like the price of butter, but house
prices and being able to afford like a warm, dry,
safe home that you can afford. It's like one of
(13:56):
those big core issues continues to be in any kind
of polling that I've seen and always is an important
set of issues in the Marti electorates because you know,
on average, we know that Marty have less intergenerational waff
less socio economic resources, and so that continues to be
a huge issue. So we've got that broad set of
economic issues in equity issues that I think will be
(14:19):
key to this campaign, and we've seen the candidates talk
about these and really signal the emphasis on these issues.
There's also the broader set of issues around Marty feeling
under attack from the government. Obviously the most recent one
being the use of tada ra mahti in school books
as an example, but it seems like there's another example
every week or so. So those kind of political, kind
(14:42):
of culture issues, they seem to be less of it
in terms of when we poll people, when you do
public opinion polling, they seem to be less of a
huge issue for many voters, but it's still an issue,
and it's an issue for a lot of Marty when
you speak to Marty about whether you know they I
kind of agree with the government on that. However, a
(15:02):
lot of those culture issues perhaps less contested in this
electorate because again we see labor into party Marty running
against themselves. But that's that broader background of Marty feeling
under attacked by the current government and putting a lot
of effort, a lot of energy into opposing different changes
at the moment, So that broader political context is sitting
(15:23):
there as well.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
We've spoken about labors, Piano Hannade and Tabati Mali's or
any Kaipra. Of course, there are three other people putting
their hat into the ring as well, you've got New
Zealand loyals At Kelvin Alp, who is the founder of
counter Spending Media, a conspiracy website that popped up over
the protest the Parliament protest in twenty twenty two. Then
(15:44):
we've got Vision New Zealand's Hannah Tamaki, wife of Brian
Tarmiki Destiny Church. And then we've got an independent Sherry
Lee Martiner. Now you mentioned before these three kind of
the thought of a Kelvin out running for a Maori
seat obviously is.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Disingenuous.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Do you think are what are there?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
What's the point of them running?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well? In the late nineteen sixties the law changed because
before so previously the marti electorates you had to be
marty'd run. Over the sixties and seventies the law changed
away by being based on it used to be based
on blood puontum and whether someone was a half caste
or free quarter elect that they used the date language.
So all of those laws changed in the nineteen sixties
(16:33):
and nineteen seventies, and part of those law changes opened
up the marti electorates for anyone to run in the
marty electorates, and any marty to run in the general electorates.
Because before the nineteen sixties Marty, there was this rule
around blood quantum where if you were half you could
choose which role you were on. And so it's this
whole colonial legacy that didn't dis enfranchise a lot of people.
(16:56):
So that's a bike product of those law changes in
the sixties and see fatigue. That meant that Marty could
run in whatever seat. And then on the foot side
it changed so non Marty could run in whatever seat.
And so yeah, any it doesn't matter what fucker popper
you are, you can run in a Marti electorate. Yes,
there could be conversations about whether that's appropriate or not.
I don't think that this is a political time or
(17:18):
environment to have that unnecessarily, but these are the current
roles and so anyone is free to run. And ultimately,
you know what it comes down to at the end
of the day is the voters can decide. The voters
they have to be of Maori descent, they have to
declare they're of Marty descent. The voters on the Maldi
roll they get to decide who they elect. Hypothetically Marty
(17:40):
and a Marty electorate could could elect a non Marty
if they chose to and if that was their choice, again,
it's over to them. It's probably very very very exceptionally
unlikely to happen, but it could happen. It's a free
choice there. So for these candidates it's a matter of
like making their political points, you know, getting a bit
of a platform, getting a bit of attention, getting mentioned,
(18:03):
and seeing what comes with it. That's the kind of
main agenda there. It's like when we you know, soon
we'll open our little books and look at all the
Merril candidates and sometimes we have a good laugh. Sometimes
we'll go, well, who's that. Sometimes we'll be offended. It's
the same sort of thing in a democracy. In this case,
in the Mahdi electorates. Anyone can run, and anyone is running.
(18:23):
Thanks for joining us, Lara, Suanna. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That said for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at NZADHERLD dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also
our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page
on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts and Tune
(18:52):
in tomorrow for another look behind the headliness