April 21, 2025 • 14 mins
New Zealand Police are assisting the FBI in an investigation into a secretive religious group, which has operations worldwide.
It’s a fringe, Christian sect that has no official name – but is commonly known as the “Two by Twos”, “The Truth”, “The Way” and “The Church With No Name”.
The inquiries follow a BBC investigation last year into allegations of child sexual abuse spanning decades within the church, which is believed to have up to 100,000 members worldwide.
And in a bizarre twist, it's been revealed National Party MP Hamish Campbell is a high-ranking member of the group.
Today on The Front Page, Herald senior crime reporter Anna Leask has been delving into what exactly this group is – and joins us now.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Sound Engineer: Richard Martin
Producer: Ethan Sills
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
CHIELDA.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
New Zealand Police are assisting.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The FBI in an investigation into a secretive religious group
which has operations worldwide. It's a fringe Christian sect that
has no official name, but it's commonly known as the
two x Two's, the Truth, the.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Way and the Church with No Name.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The inquiries follow a BBC investigation last year into allegations
of child sexual abuse spanning decades within the church, which
is believed to have up to one hundred thousand members worldwide.
And in a bizarre twist, it's been revealed National Party
MP Hamish Campbell is a high ranking member of the group.
(00:57):
Today on the front page Herald Senior Crime Report, Annalysk
is with us. She's been delving into what exactly the
group is. First off, Anna, can you tell me what
the two x Two's Group actually is.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
The group is a church that was started in the
late eighteen hundreds. In eighteen ninety seven by a Scottish
missionary who had become pretty disillusioned with the church. He
was worth and he wanted to sort of return to
a really ancient rendition of the Bible teachings. He wanted
to go back to, you know, that simple life of poverty, homelessness,
(01:36):
itinerant preaching and just spreading the word to their own people.
He was against other churches, so he sort of isolated
what he was doing to himself and it grew from there.
The church doesn't have a name and it doesn't have buildings.
He was very opposed to both of those things because
he believes that you know, you don't need a building
to be saved, and you don't need to have a name,
(01:58):
just it's that really pure form of worship, I guess
and service.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So what do they actually believe, because I know that
you mentioned no buildings, But they also don't really have
any written doctrine or any written rules or regulations, right, they.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Don't have any written sort of rules or regulations. There's
a lot published about what they do and don't believe. Effectively,
they're just fundamentalist Christians who firstly, they believe that if
you are not a member of their number, you will
not get into heaven and you it will be decided
when you die whether you go to heaven or how
sort of that decision is made on the service you've
done during your life, the work you've done for the God.
(02:34):
They're pretty into this idea of you know, their preachers
are sort of itinerant. They move from house to house,
they get looked after by the body of the church
I guess, who are known as friends, and they get
everything paid for. And it's just that really basic community
of worshipers that just keep it really simple, I guess
(02:58):
is what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Right from and what I've read is that they hold
meetings in their houses what midweek and on Sundays or something.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, the main meeting is on a Sunday morning, and
that's called house church now that's held at the home
of an elder to one of the men in the group.
On Wednesdays and Sunday nights, there is a gospel meeting
and that's when the preachers of the field or the
location therein run are sort of a prayer meeting and
(03:29):
everyone goes along and listens to them. And that can
often be in a church hall. Now when they are traveling,
so if they're off at a conference or if they're
at a convention or whatever, various forms of words they
use if these preachers are away, then other elders will
host prayer meetings in their home, which is what of
course the national MP, Hamish Campbell has confirmed that he
(03:50):
has done over the years.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Right, We'll get to Hamish Campbell obviously in a minute.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
But I guess why are we hearing about this group
all of a sudden, Well, the real.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Reason hearing about this group all of a sudden is
they are under investigation by the FBI. Allegations were made
in the States, initially about historic sexual abuse, and the
FBI started looking into this. They asked for survivors to
come forward and they've got a global response. So that
was February last year. They put the word out asking
for any victims of the two BO two group to
(04:22):
contact them. Now, in Fibruary this year, the New Zealand
Police started reaching out two people who had contacted the FBI.
There is a New Zealand Police investigation on going, so
you know, yes, we have an MP involved in this group.
Separate issue. This group is in the media and in
the news at the moment because there are two pretty
important investigations ongoing about the abuse and including of children
(04:46):
within their church.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Widespread allegations of child sex abuse.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It is rampant and it's systemic to date.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
A private investigator who runs a hotline for alleged victims
tells us she's received allergi against nine hundred and eighty
different perpetrators stemming back to the sixties. In February, the
FBI announced it was investigating the allegations.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
A lot of these perpetrators were just moved around. The
gas lighting and the guilt is what has created such
a perfect breeding ground for the pedophilia that goes on.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, I've seen some reports from around the world about
this group. The BBC reported the sect apparently coerced young
mothers to give up their babies, with hundreds of adoptions
are potentially happening between the nineteen fifties and nineteen nineties
in the UK, and meanwhile in Australia, survivors are fighting
for access to a national Redress Scheme, a compensation system
for child sex abuse survivors. Have you heard anything about
(05:44):
the former members in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Look, I've spoken to a lot of people that were
members of the church. Some of them have been abused
by people that older men and women. Some of them
know of others that have been abused. Some of them
know of the users. Police are looking into it and
we're hoping to hear very soon whether there'll be charges
(06:07):
or where that investigation goes. I think it's important to
say that in any religious group there are allegations of
this sort of thing happening, but this is really timely
at the moment, just because the FBI are looking into it.
The police are starting to make moves here, and I
think we will see very very soon what's going to
come out of that. You know, there'll be a lot
(06:27):
of people out there that may have something, have had
something happen to them, that haven't gone to police or
won't go to police. So there's always stories that you
hear from people in these groups about things that happen.
But it will, as I said, be very interesting to
see what comes out of this police investigation.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It's pretty hard to get any kind of numbers out
of this group. I've seen some numbers one hundred thousand
members believed worldwide. Do we have any idea how large
the presence is in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
It's it's amatter. There's a couple of thousand around New
Zealand and there's quite a presence in christ Church. We've
actually been sent some information about you know, the number
of workers, which is the preachers. We know, you know,
we witnessed a meeting that had fifty or so people
turning up just to the Wednesday night meeting. And that's
(07:17):
just a one part of christ Church. So I think
it is it's I mean, it's never going to be
as big as the Catholic Church, of the Anglican Church,
et cetera, but it's a significant number for you know,
for being a small sort of insular sect.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So you mentioned Hamish Campbell.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
He's a national MP and he had some kind of
association with the group, but it turns out he actually.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Downplayed his involvement in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Hey yeah, Look, we've had three versions from Hamish about
his connection.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
The first he told media that he he had an
association was the word he used to the group. He
didn't disclose anything further. The second time he used the
word connection, he said the connection was through his family. Again,
that's where he stopped. He had, you know, confirmed that
he was in fact a member of the church and
that he had hosted meetings, which a lot of ex
(08:20):
members have told me that they consider him an elder.
He's not confirmed any sort of label or ranking, but
a lot of people are claiming that he is an elder,
that he has hosted meetings, and that he and his
family are deeply embedded. As the words they've used in
this church, they're quite influential. So it's for us we've
just been asking this question. You know, what is your role?
(08:43):
You know, yes, there's a family connection because he you
are born into this church, his parents are in this church.
It's intergenerational. But you know, it didn't for me, it
didn't seem like a hard question. What is your role
in this church? Do your host meetings?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Love? I have an association through my family. I've also
been a scientist for the last few years over quite
a broad broad worldview. So it's actually liberal.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So how good you explain that organization?
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Well, look, I think it's a non denominational Christian group
trying to love the best way possible.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Have you raised the Hamish Campbell's association with the church
with them?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You know, as you well know, we're proud multicultural country.
People are free to celebrate their faces as they wish
from lots of different backgrounds.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
What else did he say.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I mean, you would have asked him about the child
sex abuse allegations as well.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Look, he's referred that to police. At this point, he
claims he has no personal knowledge of anyone involved, that
he doesn't know of any of these historic abuse allegations.
He hasn't clarified or gone any further on either of
those points, but he has said that the right place
for this to be investigated is through the police, and
like all of us, you know, and he encourages people
(10:03):
to go to police if they've got an experience they're
worried about or want to report. So, I mean, in
a small group, a lot of people know a lot
of people. But at this point, Hamish Campbell is saying
he has no personal knowledge of anyone involved in the abuse,
and he's not aware of the specific allegations. So obviously
we will keep going back to him if and we
needed as this investigation continues, as we will with the
(10:27):
church's leadership. You know, Hamish, whatever label he wants to use,
is considered an elder by some people. That's the claims
they're making. He hasn't used any wording around that, but
he's not a church leader he's not you know, the
overseer or the twice and he's not a preacher. The
questions will be put to those people as well, obviously
(10:47):
at an appropriate time.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So tell me a little bit about Douglas Martin.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Doug Martin was an assistant principle here in Lincoln, which
is just outside of christ Church, respected, you know, trusted
member of the community. In twenty thirteen, he admitted that
he had filmed up the skirts of a lot of
young women and girls, unsuspecting victims, and he was sentenced
(11:12):
to home detention. The court heard at the time that
he was a church elder, but nothing more was said.
It now has emerged that he was an elder in
the Turbots and I have confirmed that he helped meetings
in his home, that his family. He's had a lot
of family members in the church. And again, like an
influential sort of embedded family, he was asked to or
(11:33):
he was stopped from holding these meetings, I think shortly
before he was convicted, and it's been suggested he's no
longer an active member in the church. We went to
see him and he wouldn't confirm anything. He didn't deny anything,
but he didn't confirm anything and said he had no
comment to make, and a lot of people have asked,
you know, why bring that up again, Well, it's if
(11:54):
we'd known about it at the time, it would have
been reported. It's not the fact that this religion small
and unusual and you know, slightly strange in some people's opinion.
It's not about what the members worship and what their
beliefs are. It's about who was holding positions of authority
and power and trust in this group. Who they are
and what they're doing, you know, whether they are a
(12:15):
convicted sex offender or whether they are you know, there's
various other occupations that whold leadership in this group, and
you know, if they need to be held account, they
will be. So for anyone that thinks that we're picking
on a particular church or a particular religion, it's not
about that. It's you know, making sure that these people
in leadership roles are held to account where they need
to be.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So where to from here? In it from here?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
We will watch this police investigation with interest, you know,
like any investigation into you know, we've seen investigations at
Gloria Vale and we've seen investigations within the Catholic Church
and you know, other religious groups. It's we'll watch it
mostly what happens if if people are charged, we follow
that through the courts. At the moment, I'm speaking to
(13:00):
lot of ex members about their experiences, and I think,
you know, it's important to know why they're speaking out.
They want people to know what happens in this church.
They want people to know why they left. They want
this church to do better for various reasons, and that's
why they're sort of speaking at the moment, you know.
Going forward, I think there will be questions that need
(13:21):
to be asked of the church about how it's handled
things over the years and how it will protect its
people going forward. I think the most important thing though, is,
you know, just watching this police investigation, seeing what comes
of it, you know, holding people to account and that jurisdiction,
but also making sure that anyone that remains with the church,
particularly young people, will be protected in future, and that
(13:42):
you know, ultimately people are educated about what this group are,
what they stand for, and what they're doing in the community.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Thanks for joining us, Anna, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news at
enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced
by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a
sound engineer.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
CHIELDA.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
New Zealand Police are assisting.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
The FBI in an investigation into a secretive religious group
which has operations worldwide. It's a fringe Christian sect that
has no official name, but it's commonly known as the
two x Two's, the Truth, the.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Way and the Church with No Name.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The inquiries follow a BBC investigation last year into allegations
of child sexual abuse spanning decades within the church, which
is believed to have up to one hundred thousand members worldwide.
And in a bizarre twist, it's been revealed National Party
MP Hamish Campbell is a high ranking member of the group.
(00:57):
Today on the front page Herald Senior Crime Report, Annalysk
is with us. She's been delving into what exactly the
group is. First off, Anna, can you tell me what
the two x Two's Group actually is.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
The group is a church that was started in the
late eighteen hundreds. In eighteen ninety seven by a Scottish
missionary who had become pretty disillusioned with the church. He
was worth and he wanted to sort of return to
a really ancient rendition of the Bible teachings. He wanted
to go back to, you know, that simple life of poverty, homelessness,
(01:36):
itinerant preaching and just spreading the word to their own people.
He was against other churches, so he sort of isolated
what he was doing to himself and it grew from there.
The church doesn't have a name and it doesn't have buildings.
He was very opposed to both of those things because
he believes that you know, you don't need a building
to be saved, and you don't need to have a name,
(01:58):
just it's that really pure form of worship, I guess
and service.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So what do they actually believe, because I know that
you mentioned no buildings, But they also don't really have
any written doctrine or any written rules or regulations, right, they.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Don't have any written sort of rules or regulations. There's
a lot published about what they do and don't believe. Effectively,
they're just fundamentalist Christians who firstly, they believe that if
you are not a member of their number, you will
not get into heaven and you it will be decided
when you die whether you go to heaven or how
sort of that decision is made on the service you've
done during your life, the work you've done for the God.
(02:34):
They're pretty into this idea of you know, their preachers
are sort of itinerant. They move from house to house,
they get looked after by the body of the church
I guess, who are known as friends, and they get
everything paid for. And it's just that really basic community
of worshipers that just keep it really simple, I guess
(02:58):
is what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Right from and what I've read is that they hold
meetings in their houses what midweek and on Sundays or something.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, the main meeting is on a Sunday morning, and
that's called house church now that's held at the home
of an elder to one of the men in the group.
On Wednesdays and Sunday nights, there is a gospel meeting
and that's when the preachers of the field or the
location therein run are sort of a prayer meeting and
(03:29):
everyone goes along and listens to them. And that can
often be in a church hall. Now when they are traveling,
so if they're off at a conference or if they're
at a convention or whatever, various forms of words they
use if these preachers are away, then other elders will
host prayer meetings in their home, which is what of
course the national MP, Hamish Campbell has confirmed that he
(03:50):
has done over the years.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Right, We'll get to Hamish Campbell obviously in a minute.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
But I guess why are we hearing about this group
all of a sudden, Well, the real.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Reason hearing about this group all of a sudden is
they are under investigation by the FBI. Allegations were made
in the States, initially about historic sexual abuse, and the
FBI started looking into this. They asked for survivors to
come forward and they've got a global response. So that
was February last year. They put the word out asking
for any victims of the two BO two group to
(04:22):
contact them. Now, in Fibruary this year, the New Zealand
Police started reaching out two people who had contacted the FBI.
There is a New Zealand Police investigation on going, so
you know, yes, we have an MP involved in this group.
Separate issue. This group is in the media and in
the news at the moment because there are two pretty
important investigations ongoing about the abuse and including of children
(04:46):
within their church.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Widespread allegations of child sex abuse.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It is rampant and it's systemic to date.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
A private investigator who runs a hotline for alleged victims
tells us she's received allergi against nine hundred and eighty
different perpetrators stemming back to the sixties. In February, the
FBI announced it was investigating the allegations.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
A lot of these perpetrators were just moved around. The
gas lighting and the guilt is what has created such
a perfect breeding ground for the pedophilia that goes on.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, I've seen some reports from around the world about
this group. The BBC reported the sect apparently coerced young
mothers to give up their babies, with hundreds of adoptions
are potentially happening between the nineteen fifties and nineteen nineties
in the UK, and meanwhile in Australia, survivors are fighting
for access to a national Redress Scheme, a compensation system
for child sex abuse survivors. Have you heard anything about
(05:44):
the former members in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Look, I've spoken to a lot of people that were
members of the church. Some of them have been abused
by people that older men and women. Some of them
know of others that have been abused. Some of them
know of the users. Police are looking into it and
we're hoping to hear very soon whether there'll be charges
(06:07):
or where that investigation goes. I think it's important to
say that in any religious group there are allegations of
this sort of thing happening, but this is really timely
at the moment, just because the FBI are looking into it.
The police are starting to make moves here, and I
think we will see very very soon what's going to
come out of that. You know, there'll be a lot
(06:27):
of people out there that may have something, have had
something happen to them, that haven't gone to police or
won't go to police. So there's always stories that you
hear from people in these groups about things that happen.
But it will, as I said, be very interesting to
see what comes out of this police investigation.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It's pretty hard to get any kind of numbers out
of this group. I've seen some numbers one hundred thousand
members believed worldwide. Do we have any idea how large
the presence is in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
It's it's amatter. There's a couple of thousand around New
Zealand and there's quite a presence in christ Church. We've
actually been sent some information about you know, the number
of workers, which is the preachers. We know, you know,
we witnessed a meeting that had fifty or so people
turning up just to the Wednesday night meeting. And that's
(07:17):
just a one part of christ Church. So I think
it is it's I mean, it's never going to be
as big as the Catholic Church, of the Anglican Church,
et cetera, but it's a significant number for you know,
for being a small sort of insular sect.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So you mentioned Hamish Campbell.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
He's a national MP and he had some kind of
association with the group, but it turns out he actually.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Downplayed his involvement in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Hey yeah, Look, we've had three versions from Hamish about
his connection.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
The first he told media that he he had an
association was the word he used to the group. He
didn't disclose anything further. The second time he used the
word connection, he said the connection was through his family. Again,
that's where he stopped. He had, you know, confirmed that
he was in fact a member of the church and
that he had hosted meetings, which a lot of ex
(08:20):
members have told me that they consider him an elder.
He's not confirmed any sort of label or ranking, but
a lot of people are claiming that he is an elder,
that he has hosted meetings, and that he and his
family are deeply embedded. As the words they've used in
this church, they're quite influential. So it's for us we've
just been asking this question. You know, what is your role?
(08:43):
You know, yes, there's a family connection because he you
are born into this church, his parents are in this church.
It's intergenerational. But you know, it didn't for me, it
didn't seem like a hard question. What is your role
in this church? Do your host meetings?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Love? I have an association through my family. I've also
been a scientist for the last few years over quite
a broad broad worldview. So it's actually liberal.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So how good you explain that organization?
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Well, look, I think it's a non denominational Christian group
trying to love the best way possible.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Have you raised the Hamish Campbell's association with the church
with them?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
No, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You know, as you well know, we're proud multicultural country.
People are free to celebrate their faces as they wish
from lots of different backgrounds.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
What else did he say.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I mean, you would have asked him about the child
sex abuse allegations as well.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Look, he's referred that to police. At this point, he
claims he has no personal knowledge of anyone involved, that
he doesn't know of any of these historic abuse allegations.
He hasn't clarified or gone any further on either of
those points, but he has said that the right place
for this to be investigated is through the police, and
like all of us, you know, and he encourages people
(10:03):
to go to police if they've got an experience they're
worried about or want to report. So, I mean, in
a small group, a lot of people know a lot
of people. But at this point, Hamish Campbell is saying
he has no personal knowledge of anyone involved in the abuse,
and he's not aware of the specific allegations. So obviously
we will keep going back to him if and we
needed as this investigation continues, as we will with the
(10:27):
church's leadership. You know, Hamish, whatever label he wants to use,
is considered an elder by some people. That's the claims
they're making. He hasn't used any wording around that, but
he's not a church leader he's not you know, the
overseer or the twice and he's not a preacher. The
questions will be put to those people as well, obviously
(10:47):
at an appropriate time.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So tell me a little bit about Douglas Martin.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Doug Martin was an assistant principle here in Lincoln, which
is just outside of christ Church, respected, you know, trusted
member of the community. In twenty thirteen, he admitted that
he had filmed up the skirts of a lot of
young women and girls, unsuspecting victims, and he was sentenced
(11:12):
to home detention. The court heard at the time that
he was a church elder, but nothing more was said.
It now has emerged that he was an elder in
the Turbots and I have confirmed that he helped meetings
in his home, that his family. He's had a lot
of family members in the church. And again, like an
influential sort of embedded family, he was asked to or
(11:33):
he was stopped from holding these meetings, I think shortly
before he was convicted, and it's been suggested he's no
longer an active member in the church. We went to
see him and he wouldn't confirm anything. He didn't deny anything,
but he didn't confirm anything and said he had no
comment to make, and a lot of people have asked,
you know, why bring that up again, Well, it's if
(11:54):
we'd known about it at the time, it would have
been reported. It's not the fact that this religion small
and unusual and you know, slightly strange in some people's opinion.
It's not about what the members worship and what their
beliefs are. It's about who was holding positions of authority
and power and trust in this group. Who they are
and what they're doing, you know, whether they are a
(12:15):
convicted sex offender or whether they are you know, there's
various other occupations that whold leadership in this group, and
you know, if they need to be held account, they
will be. So for anyone that thinks that we're picking
on a particular church or a particular religion, it's not
about that. It's you know, making sure that these people
in leadership roles are held to account where they need
to be.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So where to from here? In it from here?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
We will watch this police investigation with interest, you know,
like any investigation into you know, we've seen investigations at
Gloria Vale and we've seen investigations within the Catholic Church
and you know, other religious groups. It's we'll watch it
mostly what happens if if people are charged, we follow
that through the courts. At the moment, I'm speaking to
(13:00):
lot of ex members about their experiences, and I think,
you know, it's important to know why they're speaking out.
They want people to know what happens in this church.
They want people to know why they left. They want
this church to do better for various reasons, and that's
why they're sort of speaking at the moment, you know.
Going forward, I think there will be questions that need
(13:21):
to be asked of the church about how it's handled
things over the years and how it will protect its
people going forward. I think the most important thing though, is,
you know, just watching this police investigation, seeing what comes
of it, you know, holding people to account and that jurisdiction,
but also making sure that anyone that remains with the church,
particularly young people, will be protected in future, and that
(13:42):
you know, ultimately people are educated about what this group are,
what they stand for, and what they're doing in the community.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Thanks for joining us, Anna, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news at
enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced
by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a
sound engineer.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look
behind the headlines.
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